Return to Transcripts main page
The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Blames Shutdown For GOP Election Losses; Dems Celebrate Election Wins As GOP Grapples With Losses; Conservative Justices Signal Some Openness To Trump's Tariffs. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 05, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, AUTHOR, "THE PARDON": -- they get to do stuff that they want. And I think, even though legally that might be difficult to justify. Logistically, it would be tremendously simpler.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Right. It's incredible. And who's -- is there likely be a swing vote?
TOOBIN: The only justice who seemed completely sympathetic to President Trump was Brett Kavanaugh. John Roberts, Neil Gorsuch seemed particularly -- Amy Barrett. Again, that -- they might vote with Trump, but they certainly didn't sound like it today.
COOPER: Jeff Toobin, thanks.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. How those major victories by Democrats, last night, have totally changed the state of play here in Washington.
I'm Kaitlan Collins on Capitol Hill. And this is THE SOURCE.
As we come on the air tonight, the deadlock here on Capitol Hill is about to potentially trigger an air travel nightmare across the country. We've now learned the FAA is going to reduce air traffic in the United States by 10 percent, across 40 high-volume cities, starting Friday morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: I anticipate there will be additional disruptions. There will be frustration. We are working with the airlines. They're going to work with passengers. But in the end, our sole role is to make sure that we keep this airspace as safe as possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, the airlines themselves learned that this was coming about an hour before the Secretary made that announcement there. An announcement that happened to come as the political calculus has just shifted in a major way, here in Washington.
That message was delivered, after Democrats had a huge night in New York, Virginia, New Jersey and California. And President Trump's frustration with those big Republican losses was on clear display, as we were in the room this morning for his meeting with Senate Republicans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I thought we'd have a discussion after the press leaves about what last night represented and what we should do about it, and also about the shutdown, and how that relates to last night. I think if you read the pollsters, the shutdown was a big factor, negative for the Republicans, and that was a big factor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, the President, who has always been quick to sense what voters want to hear, seems to have picked up on the winning message for Democrats, last night. Affordability.
The President came into office, pledging to bring higher prices down, and today argued that things are better, and that Republicans should be saying that more often.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They have this new word called affordability, and they don't talk about it enough. The Democrats did. And the Democrats make it up. Because we took over a mess.
It's going to be affordable again at a really record pace. And you know, other people are going to take credit. All the mayors and all the governors, they're going to say, What a great job. They didn't do a damn thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Something that might cause a problem for that is that grocery prices are actually up since President Trump took office, back in January.
Now, for Democrats, this momentum comes after a year, where there was very little of it for their party. It's already jumpstarted conversations, here on Capitol Hill tonight, about what this could mean for next year's midterms.
And in what may be a foreshadowing of where the party is heading. Today, Senate Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer, was going to hold a press conference. He had it scheduled, as you can see here.
But when the New York Democrat was running a little bit late, the Independent senator from Vermont, Bernie Sanders, who was in the room, stepped up to the microphone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Am I invited to take the podium?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
SANDERS: That's a good sign. I agree with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And Senator Sanders is my lead source tonight, here on Capitol Hill.
And thank you, Senator, for being here.
I'm assuming, that was not planned?
SANDERS: It was not planned. I came to hear what Senator Schumer was going to say. He was late. I was invited to get up front, then I did my thing.
COLLINS: And you basically delivered what your message is, in terms of what your takeaways were from last night, what it means for Democrats--
SANDERS: Right. What it--
COLLINS: --that you caucus with.
SANDERS: What it means is, I think Trump said it right. The Republicans lost badly, last night. And the reason that they lost badly is that people are really quite disgruntled and disgusted with Trumpism in a general sense.
And in terms of health care, what people are saying is, We cannot afford a doubling in our health care premiums. In Vermont, we are seeing people being asked to pay a tripling or a quadrupling. Who can afford that?
[21:05:00]
And people are saying, it is insane to throw 15 million Americans, low-income and working-class people, off the health care that they have, resulting in some 50,000 unnecessary deaths each year. All to give a trillion dollars in tax breaks to the 1 percent. Elon Musk, in the view, my view, and in the view of most Americans, really does not need a tax break, so that we can throw people off of health care.
There is a revolt against Trumpism. I think Democrats have the momentum. And now what has got to happen is Trump has got to come to the table, and say, OK, let's make sure that premiums do not go up. Let's make sure that we do not throw millions of people off health care. He does that? We can end this shutdown, tomorrow.
COLLINS: So that wasn't the message, though, that he delivered today. Basically, instead of saying, talking about working with Democrats, he was saying, Eliminate the filibuster, today. I mean, he was making that message pretty clear to those Republicans in the room, this morning.
SANDERS: But he's not -- apparently, from what I understand, that's not going to be the case. The Republicans understand that the filibuster is an important part of what the Senate is, that it's not going to happen.
And, look, I happen to think that Trump is a little bit crazy, and I think he lies all of the time. But he's not stupid, and he's a good politician, and I think he is catching on that he is playing a losing hand. People cannot -- he talks about affordability. Really? Well, when you double people's health care premiums, you're not bringing affordability. You're making it impossible for people to survive. I think he understands that. I think he is going to come to the table.
COLLINS: Do you think he gets the frustration on affordability? Or do you think he just gets the messaging of it?
SANDERS: I think he is just -- I think he is distressed that people are catching on to what he is doing.
Look, you do a poll. CNN, do a poll. You ask people whether we should give the 1 percent, the trillion dollars in tax breaks, and double premiums for ordinary Americans. I will say that 90 percent of the people think that's a crazy idea.
That's what they're trying to push. The American people are catching on, and saying, No.
COLLINS: The President said today something that -- I mean, it was -- it was really remarkable for him to come in the room today and say, Republicans are bearing the blame of this shutdown more so than Democrats, which he lamented. He called Democrats, kamikazes, when it came to keeping the government closed, saying that they don't care about reopening it. But he said that he thinks last night's election makes Democrats less willing to reopen the government.
Do you think that's the case?
SANDERS: Well, I think what the message of last night -- and it really was a sweeping victory, not only in New York, and in Virginia, and New Jersey, but in small towns in Connecticut, in California.
I mean, it really was an overwhelming wave, which has a lot to do with people saying, You know what? You guys got to stand up to this Donald Trump, not only his authoritarianism, but his war against the working- class of this country, and his horrible positions on health care.
That was the message that I took. Stand up, be firm, and Trump, who is nobody's fool, will, in fact, come to the table.
COLLINS: That's the message you took. Do you think Democratic leadership took away that same message as you?
SANDERS: You got to ask Democratic leadership.
COLLINS: I mean, that's what you said today when reporters were asking you questions.
SANDERS: I mean, I don't want to speak for Mr. Schumer. He's quite capable of speaking for himself.
COLLINS: But were you satisfied with his response today, his reaction to last night's wins?
SANDERS: I think you got to go beyond just saying, I want to meet. Sure, they should be meeting. Sure, the President should be inviting Jeffries and Schumer into the White House to discuss it.
But I think we've got to lay out what we want. And what we want is what the American people want. And what the American people want is not a doubling in their health care premiums. So, we have to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits. We got to make sure that 15 million people are not thrown off the health care they have.
COLLINS: And that has been something -- I mean, you've talked about health care, obviously, for decades, and how it needs to be fixed in this country.
One thing though, in terms of what this looks like, is how it's being used in this shutdown. You've acknowledged that it's a point of leverage for Democrats in the government shutdown, as you're fighting to extend the Obamacare subsidies. Republicans have used that language from Democrats, and saying that your leverage is hard-working Americans.
SANDERS: No--
COLLINS: What would you say to that?
SANDERS: What I say is that throughout the modern history of this country, when a majority party does not have 60 votes in the Senate? To keep the government open, to pass a government budget, you need 60 votes. Correct? That's what you need. Senate rules. When Democrats had 52 votes, they have to negotiate with Republicans. Republicans have that? They have to negotiate with Democrats.
This is the first time, I don't know that people understand that, first time in modern history, where Republicans are not sitting down and negotiating with the Democrats to get the 60 votes. That's what this 60 votes is supposed to do. They're not doing it. That's the reason for this shutdown.
COLLINS: And you think they won't get rid of the filibuster, something you've advocated for at times?
SANDERS: Well, I think, right now, we should maintain the filibuster, and I think that's Thune's position, and the position of a number of Republicans.
COLLINS: And you don't think Senate Republicans will give the President what he wants, on the filibuster?
SANDERS: I don't want to speculate.
[21:10:00]
But we can end this shutdown. This shutdown is painful. It's painful for the police officers right here on Capitol Hill, for federal workers all over this country. We're worried about what's happening with the airline issue, and cutting back on plane flights. Trump can end this shutdown, tomorrow. Let's sit down. Let's talk about extending the Affordable Care Act tax credits.
And by the way, let me also say this, I am not a great fan of Obamacare.
COLLINS: Yes.
SANDERS: I believe that our current health care system, before Trump, is broken, widely expensive. We should do what every other major country on Earth does, guarantee health care to all people, as a human right, through Medicare for All.
COLLINS: One of the big winners last night was Zohran Mamdani, someone that you had endorsed and appeared on the campaign trail.
He spoke directly to President Trump, in his victory speech, last night. I want everyone who missed it to hear that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI, (D) NEW YORK: If anyone can show a nation betrayed by Donald Trump, how to defeat him, it is the city that gave rise to him.
(CHEERING)
MAMDANI: So Donald Trump, since I know you're watching--
(CHEERING)
MAMDANI: --I have four words for you. Turn the volume up.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: After seeing the results of last night's election, you have said that this is not just a New York City thing, which some people have dismissed his win as. Do you think Zohran Mamdani is a leader in the Democratic Party now?
SANDERS: Well, of course, he is. He's going to be the Mayor of the City of New York. But what's important about last night is not only that he ran a brilliant campaign. He had 90,000 volunteers. He's incredibly articulate. It's what he talked about during the campaign.
And he made it clear, what is true in every state in this country, is that the richest people in America are becoming phenomenally richer. Billionaires are exploding in terms of wealth. While ordinary people, 60 percent of the people, live paycheck to paycheck. Ordinary people can't afford health care. They can't afford child care. They can't afford the food in the grocery store. They can't afford to retire with dignity. That's what Zohran campaigned on. It resonated with people. It will resonate with people in every state in this country.
COLLINS: Is that something that Democrats, you believe, should run on--
SANDERS: Absolutely.
COLLINS: --in the next year?
SANDERS: Look, people understand that Democrats have got to have the courage to acknowledge reality. You got one person -- you tell me, if this makes any sense -- one person, Mr. Musk, owns more wealth than the bottom 52 percent of American households. In the richest country on Earth, we got 800,000 people sleeping out on the streets. Millions can't afford health care.
We need -- it is not a radical idea to say, and that's what Mamdani is talking about -- we need an economy that works for everybody, not just for the billionaires.
COLLINS: Do you think that's something that's resonating with the Democrats you caucus with, up here on Capitol Hill?
SANDERS: To some degree, it is. But more importantly, it is resonating with ordinary Americans, all across this country.
COLLINS: Should it say anything that Senator Schumer never endorsed Zohran Mamdani and yet he still had such a big victory, last night?
SANDERS: Why is that a contradiction? What do you think--
COLLINS: Well, I'm just saying, should it say -- does it say anything about how voters, if they don't care about the endorsement or not.
SANDERS: Yes, precisely. That's exactly what it says.
Look, what Mamdani talked to was not the political establishment, not the oligarchs. Those are not the people he went to for support.
He went to working-class people. He went to young people. My understanding is he won something like 75 percent of the voters of people under 30 years of age. That's extraordinary. So, if I'm a Democrat in any place in this country and say, We got to get young people involved in the political process, they are the future of America? Study what Mamdani did in New York.
COLLINS: President Trump said today that -- well, one, he didn't mention Zohran Mamdani's name, this morning, during that breakfast, which I thought was notable, in front of the cameras, he didn't -- he's talked about him a lot, obviously.
Later in Miami, he did reference him, and he said he believes this sets up a choice for Americans between commonsense and communism.
SANDERS: Really?
COLLINS: What do you say to that?
SANDERS: Well, look, Trump lies all the time. So he calls anybody who disagrees -- I guess he calls me a communist. Zohran Mamdani is not a communist. Maybe Trump might want to read a book or two.
COLLINS: He did quote Eugene Debs in the beginning of his--
SANDERS: Who was--
COLLINS: --his speech, last night.
SANDERS: Who was, as I hope you know--
COLLINS: A socialist.
SANDERS: --one of the great socialist leaders in our country, one of the great unsung heroes of American history, man who spent his life fighting for working people and opposing unjust wars. Right? He was not a communist. He was a democratic socialist.
So, maybe Mr. Trump might want to study up, read a book or two -- I don't know if he reads books -- and learn a little bit about what democratic socialism is about.
COLLINS: Senator Bernie Sanders, as always, thank you for your time. Thanks for joining us here on Capitol Hill.
SANDERS: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next for us. We still have a lot ahead here, on a busy Wednesday night. There was high drama at the Supreme Court today in Washington, the centerpiece of President Trump's economic agenda, which he has likened to life or death, is now hanging in the balance.
And also, a sign of the times at the White House today. What I noticed that President Trump has put right outside the most famous office, maybe in the world?
[21:15:00]
We'll dig into all that, and the power struggle to come after last night's elections, how some Republicans are reacting to those big wins for Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TOM EMMER (R-MN): Pro-terrorist, Marxist radicals are now the left's mainstream.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): No one should read too much into last night's election results.
TRUMP: I wasn't on the ballot was the biggest factor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: After threatening to withhold federal funds from the nation's largest city, if it elected a Democratic socialist as mayor, President Trump is now projecting a softer tone on what his relationship could look like, with New York City's next leader, Zohran Mamdani.
[21:20:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He has to be a little bit respectful of Washington. Because if he's not, he doesn't have a chance of succeeding. And I want to make him succeed. I want to make the city succeed. I don't want to make him succeed. I want to make the city succeed. And we'll see what happens.
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: Did you see reaching out to him?
TRUMP: I would say he should reach out to us, really. I think he should reach out.
BAIER: All right.
TRUMP: I'm here. We'll see what happens. But I would think that it would be more appropriate for him to reach out to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Earlier today, the Mayor-elect Mamdani said that he is interested in speaking with the President. Now he knows, obviously, based on that answer, that he will likely have to initiate that conversation.
Joining me tonight, here on the Hill, Republican congressman, Mike Lawler of New York.
And obviously, you heard what the President said there.
You actually served with Zohran Mamdani--
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Yes.
COLLINS: --not that long ago in the State Assembly in New York. Do you think that that you can have a working relationship with him, as the next leader of New York City?
LAWLER: Well, look, I served with him. We were friendly. We played poker, every so often together.
COLLINS: Who won?
LAWLER: It was split, you know?
COLLINS: OK.
LAWLER: But I would always say to him, when he would win, since he's a socialist, Give me back my money.
But, ultimately, I think obviously there's strong differences of opinion. So, when it comes to some of the things that he's advocating for, whether it's raising taxes by $9 billion on New Yorkers, his rhetoric and policy positions with respect to police, talking about getting rid of the gang database, things like that? No, I will not support that or advocate for that.
But when it comes to New York? And many of my constituents work in New York City.
COLLINS: Yes.
LAWLER: I have a lot of cops and firefighters, financial service sector employees that live in New York -- work in New York City, live in my district. When it comes to working together on issues impacting New York? Of course, I'll engage.
COLLINS: Tom Suozzi, another New York Republican congressman, said -- who endorsed Andrew Cuomo, I should note, in this race. He's a Democrat. He said that he would fight with Zohran Mamdani, against the administration, if they try to withhold federal funding from New York City.
Would you also join in that effort, if the President tries to withhold federal funding from New York?
LAWLER: Depends on the issue, and it depends on what in fact, the City of New York is doing. If the city is refusing to cooperate with federal law and federal law enforcement? No. If the city is having funds withheld with respect to transportation, for instance? I've pushed back against withholding funds on the Second Avenue Subway and Gateway. So, it really just depends on what the issue is.
But, again, Zohran has a responsibility as mayor, as someone governing, to actually uphold federal law, to work with the federal government on issues, especially when it comes to national security. New York is always a target, and that is something where there can be no room between any of us, and in terms of ensuring the safety and well-being of New Yorkers. So, when it comes to these issues, it really just depends on what the city is doing.
COLLINS: The Gateway Tunnel project that you mentioned is part of that $18 billion in federal funding that Trump halted, earlier this year, a few weeks ago.
You said to an interview with -- in an interview with me a few -- a few weeks ago, that you were actually trying to talk to the administration about releasing that funding. One, has that gotten anywhere? Have they said that they're going to release that? LAWLER: I've had discussions with the administration. Obviously, the President, since that interview, was pretty firm about canceling the project because of, in large measure, Chuck Schumer's recalcitrance (ph) on the government shutdown and, frankly, defunding things like SNAP and WIC, not paying our troops, not paying Border Patrol agents. I--
COLLINS: But that -- still that sounds like a no.
LAWLER: Well, we're going to have to get through this government shutdown and get that done. But, again, this is why you don't play around with things like government funding.
COLLINS: Do you believe that that affected the New York -- the New Jersey governor's race, last night?
LAWLER: The Gateway project?
COLLINS: Yes. Trump withholding that funding, did it hurt the Republican candidate, Jack Ciattarelli?
LAWLER: No, I think -- I think, in the end, what you saw is that New Jersey went reflexively back to what it is, which is a pretty Democratic state. And, I think in this instance, New Jersey voters voted what they are, which is Democrat.
COLLINS: Why do you think Republicans lost, though, all across the board, last night? I mean, do you really -- do you agree with Mike Johnson that it's just because they're blue states, that Republicans lost, and lost so badly?
LAWLER: Well, I think in Virginia, you had a uniquely terrible candidate, in Winsome Sears, who ran a horrible campaign, and really didn't offer Virginia voters a choice. In New Jersey, Jack ran a very strong race. But I think what you saw, Democrats obviously are energized in the immediate. These were Democratic states that ended up voting Democrat.
[21:25:00]
But what I do think is important to take away from is, at the end of the day, no matter the election, voters, regardless of party, care about a few basic things. They care about the cost of living. They care about the quality of life. And any campaign you run, you have to focus on the issues that matter to the voters.
I've won twice in two-to-one Democratic districts, with President Trump on the ballot, and without President Trump on the ballot. And I've done so because I've been able to go into every community and talk about the issues that matter. I've been able to deliver for my district, including, for instance, lifting the cap on SALT, which was a big promise that I made when I first ran, and I delivered on, in this tax bill, that will produce the single largest tax cut, and $4,000 average tax cut for every New Yorker.
So it really, to me, is, at the end of the day, every campaign is unique. Every candidate matters. Candidate recruitment matters.
And I think we saw in New York City, Zohran Mamdani was successful over Andrew Cuomo, somebody who's been a career politician, in large measure, because he ran a unique race. He went after the issues, directly to voters. He engaged voters in a very grassroots way, and using social media very effectively. And as Bernie Sanders just acknowledged, he will be the face of the Democratic Party, moving forward, both because Republicans will make him--
COLLINS: Yes, he said he's a leader.
LAWLER: He is. Oh, he absolutely is, and I agree with that.
COLLINS: But can I ask you on that front. Because you're talking about being honest with voters and acknowledging, meeting them where they are on the issues that matter the most to them.
LAWLER: Yes.
COLLINS: The President has been saying, quote, We have no inflation, and our groceries are down.
He said both of that in the last week. Neither of those things are true. There is inflation in the United States, and grocery prices are actually up since he took office. So, should the President acknowledge that--
LAWLER: Well -- well, first of all--
COLLINS: --this is actually what's happening to Americans?
LAWLER: --when Joe Biden was president, inflation was at 9 percent. Inflation is at 2.5 percent. So, inflation--
COLLINS: Well, he didn't say inflation is down. He said, we have--
LAWLER: Inflation is down.
COLLINS: He said, we have no inflation.
LAWLER: Inflation is down.
COLLINS: He said, we have no inflation.
LAWLER: OK. But inflation is down significantly from where it was under Joe Biden, correct?
COLLINS: Agreed.
LAWLER: OK. Gas price--
COLLINS: But we still have inflation.
LAWLER: Gas prices are down. It hit $3 which is significantly lower than when Joe Biden was. Down. Eggs are down, for instance. That was a big deal at the beginning of the Trump administration, when they came in.
COLLINS: But grocery prices are up.
LAWLER: Eggs are down 79 percent, since Donald Trump took office. So look, grocery prices. CPI is at 3 percent, OK, which is roughly consistent. You look at GDP growth. It was at 3.9 percent, last quarter. That is significant. So, we are turning the corner on the economy.
As I just said, earlier this year, we passed the largest tax cut. Next year, when Americans go to file their tax returns, they are going to get a significant tax cut--
COLLINS: And here's my point.
LAWLER: --and get significant tax dollars back in their pockets.
COLLINS: You talk about what--
LAWLER: That is positive.
COLLINS: --what President Biden said.
President Biden would say things that weren't true about inflation, and it just wasn't resonating with Americans. It wasn't how they felt.
So when the President -- is the President not making the same mistake, as Joe Biden, by saying, We have no inflation, and grocery prices are down, when actually there is inflation and grocery prices are up?
LAWLER: I think where we are is that it is not ultimately where we want to be, but we have turned the corner, and we are moving in the right direction. Again, inflation is down significantly. You look at 30-year fixed mortgage rates. Those are coming down.
COLLINS: Right, but if he said inflation was down, there's nothing to correct--
LAWLER: You look at rent. That is coming down.
COLLINS: --that is true.
LAWLER: No, no, no, but--
COLLINS: But he is saying, we have no inflation.
LAWLER: OK, well, obviously inflation is at 2.5 percent, OK? So--
COLLINS: I think it's closer to 3, but, yes.
LAWLER: It's at 2.5 percent of last count. So, if you look at it, it is down significantly. We are turning the corner. We have passed the single largest tax cut, in American history, as part of the one big, beautiful bill.
As I said before, the average New Yorker, for instance, is going to see a $4,000 tax cut before Zohran Mamdani starts trying to raise taxes. Zohran talks about affordability crisis in New York. Democrats have controlled New York City for the last 12 years. Democrats controlled New York State for the last 20 years, with Democratic governors.
COLLINS: Well, he didn't get the endorsement of Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer, of course, as you know. So, I mean--
LAWLER: Chuck Schumer wouldn't say who he voted for.
COLLINS: --he's at odds with most (ph) of the party.
LAWLER: But chances are, he voted for Mamdani. Hakeem Jeffries and Kathy Hochul both bent the knee. The fact is, they're going to raise taxes in New York. They are going to increase spending in New York. That is going to increase the cost of living in New York.
COLLINS: Congressman Mike Lawler.
LAWLER: That's what we're fighting back against.
COLLINS: We will see if any of that happens. Thank you so much for joining us tonight, here on Capitol Hill.
LAWLER: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next for us. Are Republicans too quick to dismiss the election results? Or are Democrats risking reading too much into it? We're going to talk to our top political minds here, right after this.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Last night was a shellacking for the Republicans and for Donald Trump.
EMMER: Pro-terrorist, Marxist radicals are now the left's mainstream.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Republicans woke up this morning, and realized that they are no longer in a 2024 electoral environment. That's over, and they are done.
JOHNSON: No one should read too much into last night's election results. Off-year elections are not indicative of what's to come.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:35:00]
COLLINS: As some Republicans are writing off those Democratic victories, last night, a lot of Democrats are hailing it as a sign of a blue wave, they believe, will happen now in next year's midterms.
My political sources are here to talk about what could happen next.
David Axelrod was a senior adviser to President Obama.
And Scott Jennings was a senior adviser to Senator Mitch McConnell.
They are both here with me now.
And Scott, I want to start with you.
Because the Vice President, JD Vance, was at that breakfast today, where Trump told Senate Republicans, basically, they needed to have a conversation. And he later said that he believed it was idiotic to overreact to the elections. He did say, We have to do better at turning out voters than we have in the past. And Vice President Vance said, We're going to keep on working to make a decent life affordable in this country, and that's the metric by which we'll ultimately be judged in 2026 and beyond. And he called Republican infighting, Stupid.
Scott Jennings, what advice would you give to your party, a year out then from the midterms?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL, HOST, "THE SCOTT JENNINGS RADIO SHOW" ON SRN: Well, first of all, I think JD Vance is exactly right. They do have to talk about cost of living. They do have to talk about affordability.
And he's right that voters will ultimately judge the party in power, the incumbent party, based on the health of the economy, macro and micro. People have to feel like you're on the right trajectory. So, I think he's right about that.
I think he's right that Republicans are better off to dump the infighting and focus on issues and what we need to do to succeed.
And he's certainly correct about this turnout issue. We still have an unproven situation out there, about a lot of people who love Donald Trump but don't yet love to turn out when he's not on the ballot.
So, all these things are correct, and I agree with him. It's, you don't want to run around like chickens with your head cut off, when something bad happens. But at the same time, you do want to learn from situations. And I think there's probably some things to be learned, last night, about candidate quality, and the way we're running campaigns in certain places.
But we have to remember, these are blue states, very blue states. Democrats won in blue states. And so, overreacting and being overly emotional is probably not a great thing today.
COLLINS: OK, David, that's Scott Jennings' take.
I want you to listen to what Marjorie Taylor Greene had to say about how she viewed what played out yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I believe the election yesterday was a referendum on not delivering what November 2024 was about. It was about America First. It was about MAHA. And it was about cost of living and putting Americans' issues above everything else. And that has not been the focus for months now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What do you make of that, David?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, I'm in the kind of astonishing position of saying, I agree with every word that Marjorie Taylor Greene said. I've never said those words here. This -- we're making news right here on your show, Kaitlan. But that's absolutely the case. That's what happened. The fact is, the President got elected in the main because people were very unhappy with the economy. And it hasn't changed for the better.
I heard Congressman Lawler say, We're moving in the right direction.
There's just a poll, yesterday morning, The Economist poll, and 21 percent of the people agreed with him, and 54 percent said, We're moving in the wrong direction. So, there's a reason people are feeling that. They know what happens at the cash register. They know when they try and pay their bills at the end of the month. And they haven't seen improvement.
And they don't believe the President's focus has been there. They see him on ballrooms, and they see him on journeys, overseas, and they see him talk about the Nobel Prize, and they see him, talking about redoing the bathroom at the -- in the Lincoln Bedroom in gold. And they're saying, What does this have to do with my life?
And the more that they insist that things are getting better and that people -- and that they have had great economic accomplishments, the more they sound a little like Joe Biden did, when he was running for president, and got into real trouble doing that. You can't jawbone people into feeling what they're not experiencing.
COLLINS: Yes, I think that's a good point in terms of, what the numbers actually show in that conversation.
Scott, I have to ask you about something that we saw.
President Trump had that breakfast with Senate Republicans today, and then he was leaving to go to Miami. That was where he gave fuller remarks on just his presidency one year in, since he won the election, on those issues that Marjorie Taylor Greene was talking about.
And David mentioned the ballroom at the White House. They're also making other changes that we noticed today. We were looking inside -- at the Oval Office, waiting for Trump to come out. They have now put up a new gold sign outside of the Oval Office, designating it as, yes, The Oval Office. Scott, I wonder what you make of that.
JENNINGS: Well, I'll always be able to find it now when I'm there, and that way I won't be lost if I ever find myself wandering around the Rose Garden area there.
[21:40:00]
Look, I think all presidents put their esthetic touches on the White House. And then when somebody else comes in, they do the same thing. So, if the next person likes it, they can keep it. And if the next person doesn't, they can take it down. And I don't really begrudge Donald Trump, or Joe Biden, or Barack Obama, or George W. Bush, or anybody else for putting their esthetic touches. They did win the office, after all, and it's where they live for the time being.
COLLINS: David, what do you make of that sign?
AXELROD: Well--
COLLINS: You're laughing.
AXELROD: Yes. Look, I'm less concerned about what they put on the outside of the office than what goes on inside of the office. And I think that's where most Americans are.
What you saw yesterday in really, really significant numbers, all over the country, were people voting, because they were really worried about the direction of the country, and the direction of the economy. They want Donald Trump to deliver on the thing that he promised, that he was going to turn things around quickly, that he was going to make American families more prosperous. So far, the family that he's made most prosperous is his own. While they're still struggling.
So, I think that the -- all of this -- all of the gold in the world on the outside of the White House will not put a sheen on a record that people feel is failing them.
COLLINS: Well, and Scott, if you're inside the West Wing -- I mean, you heard House Speaker Mike Johnson saying, People shouldn't read that much into it. But do you think that the political team should be sitting around?
Because, to just make everyone clear on how much they're worried about Democrats taking back the House in the midterms, or what that could look like. They would -- they -- one White House staffer told me, once, It's the end of the presidency, if that happens. I mean, those are the stakes of the midterm elections, because they understand from previous experience how much it changes what being in the White House is like, to have Democrats in power on Capitol Hill.
JENNINGS: Well, look, I think one thing is true. The President has spent a lot of his first year on solving conflicts around the world. I mean, he's had great success at it. We just got the hostages back in Israel. But he's been overseas a lot. He's been working on those issues a lot. If I were in their shoes, my advice would be, OK, what can we do now? Keep the President at home. And also, put him in the settings where, how did the American people know Donald Trump? They know him as a businessman, and that's one of the reasons they trusted him with the office twice, because they believe in his ability to work on the economy and make it work for them.
So, I would be looking for ways to keep him at home, and keep him visible in those settings, and also just get him talking about what people are feeling, and what he's doing about it. I do think they have a story to tell on a few issues, and they'll have a bigger story to tell. They may want to try another reconciliation bill, and maybe more tax relief, some other things coming up. But getting the President front and center on domestic issues. If he has half as much success on that, as he has had on the international stage, he could have a really good 2026.
COLLINS: Yes, he seems pretty dismissive of reconciliation inside that room with Republican senators today. But we'll see.
Scott Jennings. And David Axelrod. It is always great to have both of you here. Thanks so much for joining us.
AXELROD: Thanks, Kaitlan.
JENNINGS: Thank you.
COLLINS: And up next here. The President said that if the Supreme Court does not rule in his favor, on tariffs, the economy could face a Great Depression. There were tough questions from the justices today, including Trump's own justices that he put on the court. We'll let you hear those moments for yourself, right after this.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, the fate of President Trump's signature tariff policy that has upended global markets, since he returned to the White House, now sits in the hands of the Supreme Court.
The nine justices today heard oral arguments, for about three hours, on the legality of the President using a decades-old federal law to implement these sweeping tariffs across the world.
The arguments started with numerous justices, including several who were on the court's conservative majority, aggressively questioning the administration's use of the 1977 International Emergency Economic Powers Act.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS: The vehicle is imposition of taxes on Americans, and that has always been the core power of Congress.
JUSTICE AMY CONEY BARRETT: These are kind of across the board, and so is it your contention that every country needed to be tariffed because of threats to the defense and industrial base? I mean it -- Spain, France -- I mean, I could see it with some countries, but explain to me why as many countries needed to be subject to the reciprocal tariff policy as are?
JUSTICE NEIL GORSUCH: What would prohibit Congress from just abdicating all responsibility to regulate foreign commerce -- for that matter, declare war -- to the President?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: But as the hearing went on, some of the early skepticism that you hear there, from those conservative justices, appeared to shift, with some of them even signaling an openness to this law actually granting the President's tariff authority.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTICE BRETT KAVANAUGH: So you're forcing the President to respond to an emergency. And, you know, Justice Alito's raised the point about, you know, a real emergency, and you're taking away the President's suite of tools when the one is much more extreme that is authorized, that just seems a bit unusual.
In the history of trade, trade efforts to respond and push back, you're taking one away.
GORSUCH: The Constitution says that Congress gets to regulate commerce, and everybody understood that that meant and included the power to tariff. Story, Madison, OK? So that that's sort of a problem, right? Regulate is a capacious verb.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My legal inside sources are here, including CNN Chief Supreme Court Analyst, Joan Biskupic, who was inside the High Court today.
Joan, can you just tell us what your takeaways were from being in there?
JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN CHIEF SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Sure. And it's interesting. Of course, the arguments are going to shift over time. Because first, what you have is the Solicitor General of the United States, representing Donald Trump up there. So, they're going to give him a harder time, because that's the only person appearing before them.
[21:50:00]
And the reason then we kind of started to see Chief Justice John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett shift a little bit in their tone is because then the challenger's lawyer was there.
So Kaitlan, what I have to say is that both sets of lawyers got a real grilling here. And I went into it thinking this was going to be a very close case, and I walked out of it thinking it was going to be close, and I'll tell you why, and I'll use the Chief as an example.
You played that sound bite from him, at the top, about him saying, Well, of course, the power for tariffs and taxing belongs to the Congress. It's a core power.
But then later on, Kaitlan, and I think this is crucial for kind of, some of the ambivalences we saw, he said that, Yes, it is a congressional power to be able to set tariffs. But this is a foreign -- a foreign relation situation. He kept referring to foreign-facing tariffs, and he said, Don't we give extra deference to the president in those kinds of situations?
So, you can kind of feel the tension right there.
And the same was with Amy Coney Barrett, who, at the outset, was very scrutinizing of John Sauer, the Solicitor General, representing Donald Trump. But then she talked about how hard it would be to roll back some of these tariffs, and how much, you know, what a mess it would be to kind of unwind where we are.
If I had to bet money, Kaitlan, I'd say the momentum is still with the challenger -- challengers. They won in lower courts, up to this point, and they went into this with a stronger hand. But I just -- I just wouldn't call it quite yet.
They'll vote on Friday in their private conference. And from there, they'll be working behind the scenes on their drafts. And none of us will know, for several weeks, where they end up, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: That's pretty fascinating. As someone, you've written books about the Supreme Court. You've studied the Supreme Court extensively. So to hear your take on what this could look like.
And you mentioned there what Amy Coney Barrett was saying this -- the Justice saying, basically like, How would this work, to Neal Katyal. I want everyone to listen to that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONEY BARRETT: If you win, tell me how the reimbursement process would work. Would it be a complete mess?
NEAL KATYAL, PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY: The government stipulated for the five plaintiffs that they would get the refunds.
CONEY BARRETT: So a mess?
KATYAL: So it's difficult, absolutely.
CONEY BARRETT: OK.
KATYAL: We don't, we don't deny that it's difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, Elie, this is a huge question in terms of what this would look like, if they do rule against the President. Do you think it's going to be a yes or no, an up or down? I mean, what should -- after they vote, as Joan noted there, what should we be waiting on?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: So I'm glad to hear Joan say that her money is on the challengers.
COLLINS: I trust Joan, for the record.
HONIG: I know she was careful. And I trust her 100 percent. But that's where I came out as well. I mean, look, there's moments that were good and bad for either side. That's always going to be the case in these arguments.
What was so striking to me, though, was to hear the justices, in what I now consider the conservative middle, were really harsh on the Trump lawyer, on John Sauer. I'll give you one example.
Here's a quote, OK? Guess who this is from. These tariffs if they stand would be a one-way ratchet of power to the executive branch away from the elected people's representatives.
Sounds like Sotomayor, Kagan, Jackson? That's Neil Gorsuch. He said that on the record to John Sauer. So, that's unusual, I think.
You also had Amy Coney Barrett and John Roberts saying, This statute has never been used this way before. This is a tax--
COLLINS: 50 years.
HONIG: In -- since 1977, when it was passed. So we can't -- you know, we can't draw predictions. But I would feel pretty good if I was the challengers coming out of there.
COLLINS: OK, one thing is on tariff revenue, which the Solicitor General saying is not actually the point.
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: I actually -- which, I mean, Trump has bragged about it. I asked Scott Bessent about it, the Treasury Secretary, who was actually in the room, listening to these arguments today. Here's what he told me at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You were inside the court today, as the Solicitor General was making the argument, saying that actually the revenue from tariffs is just incidental.
Both you and President Trump have touted how much money has come from the tariffs.
So is it the argument that John Sauer made in court today, that they are not designed to really generate revenue? Or is it what you and President Trump have said outside of the court? SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: No, no, no, I think you're confused, Kaitlan, that the -- it is -- they are coincident. And I have said many times before that tariffs are a shrinking ice cube. You begin with the tariff income, because you put up the tariff wall. The ultimate goal is balance. So, we want to bring back manufacturing. So, as that happens, tariff income will go down, the income tax receipts, domestically, will go up, domestic manufacturing will go up. So it is -- the goal is balance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HONIG: OK, here's why that's relevant, legally. If the intention here is to generate revenue, then these are essentially a tax, and then the tariffs will be struck down. That's why it was such a big moment today, when the Chief and when Amy Coney Barrett said, This is essentially a tax. If that's the case? The challengers win. So statements like that are right on point with that.
COLLINS: Elie Honig, as always--
HONIG: Thank you.
COLLINS: --great to have you here on Capitol Hill tonight.
HONIG: Beautiful, yes. Thanks for having me.
COLLINS: Thanks for joining us on our new set.
Joan Biskupic, as always, you are the best, and we will see what happens here, and what the Supreme Court decides.
BISKUPIC: Yes.
COLLINS: Obviously, huge implications for this White House.
[21:55:00]
Up next. We're going to update you on those shocking new details from these remarkable moments, where this cargo plane crashed into a fireball. What investigators have learned, as the death toll has continued to rise this evening.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: There's some new video tonight of that plane crash that happened in Kentucky, last night. I do want to warn you, what you're about to see is graphic.
It comes as we are hearing from the National Transportation Safety Board that says they do have other surveillance video that shows the left wing engine detaching -- the left engine detaching from the wing of that UPS plane. You can see this huge fireball that it caused. It happened during takeoff, just seconds before this horrific crash, in Louisville, yesterday.
[22:00:00] The NTSB says that they have gotten the black boxes from that aircraft as part of this ongoing investigation.
And right now, we've been hearing from officials on the ground about the death toll from this plane crash that now stands at 12 people. It is expected to grow. And obviously, our condolences are with those people's families.
Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky said that among those killed, he believes at least one of them is a young child.
The crash, as you can see here, created a debris field that is about a mile -- a half a mile long, and investigators believe that a lot of that debris may have made its way into nearby yards and businesses.
Obviously, we'll keep following this incredibly closely, and the status of that investigation, we'll keep you updated on that as well.
Thank you so much for joining us live, from Capitol Hill, tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT" starts next.
