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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump, Without Details, Floats Health Plan Called "Trumpcare"; Trump Defends 50-Year Mortgage Plan: "It's Not Even A Big Deal"; Johnson To Swear In Rep.-Elect Grijalva Tomorrow. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 11, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: You can hear my conversation with Kenny about loss and grief, on my podcast, "All There Is." The episode just came out, and it's available wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also watch the entire episode, right now, at CNN.com/AllThereIs. It's where you can also access a full library of the past podcast episodes, and also watch my new companion streaming show, "All There Is Live," which is on every Thursday at 09:15 p.m. Eastern Time.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. Democrats may be on the brink of losing the government shutdown battle. But are Republicans going to be the ones who end up paying for soaring health care costs?
I'm Kaitlan Collins on Capitol Hill. And this is THE SOURCE.
And as we come on the air tonight, things are actually happening, here on Capitol Hill, which after 42 -- 42 days of this government shutdown, is actually worth a breaking-news banner of its own, because lawmakers are now working late into the evening, tonight, to seal the deal, and end the longest government shutdown on record.
That hasn't stopped the White House's efforts and the President's efforts to stop full food assistance benefits from going out, because tonight, the Supreme Court has just given the administration longer time, a longer time period, to withhold those full SNAP benefits from some 40 million Americans. This has been playing out in court, and has been a big battle during this shutdown, even as we could be just one day away from it ending.
But as we talk about more families struggling to afford the cost of dinner, the President, for months, has been insisting that grocery prices are actually coming down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Prices are way down. Everything's way down.
Our groceries are down. Our energy prices are down.
We have no inflation. Prices are down on just about everything.
Prices are down. We have virtually no inflation. Everything's going good.
Prices are down and inflation is dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, even as the President has been declaring, Mission accomplished, when it comes to bringing grocery prices down, notice the difference between the absolutes that you heard him offer there, and what he's been saying over the last few months, but also in recent days even, and the more nuanced answers that we usually get from people in his inner circle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Under my leadership, energy costs are down.
SCOTT BESSENT, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY: So, look, there are things that the federal government can control. Local electricity prices are not one of them.
A lot of the problem lies with the state government.
TRUMP: Now we don't have inflation.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Inflation has remained low and steady, averaging just 2.5 percent.
KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL OF THE UNITED STATES: Inflation is down, is what he means.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, of all people, of course, President Trump knows how personal and powerful this issue can be for people. Day after day, on the campaign trail, last year, we heard the President hammering home promises, about what would happen and how quickly, if voters returned him to the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: From the day I take the oath of office, we will rapidly drive prices down.
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: We're going to get those prices down. We're going to get them down quickly.
We're going to get those prices down. I will, promise you, we're going to end inflation very quickly. We're going to get those prices down too.
We have to get the prices down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Of course, the President has now been in office for about 10 months, at this point. Voters in several states have made clear, as they did a week ago tonight, that affordability is certainly still front and center for many of them, as the President has responded mostly this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: More than anything else, it's a con job by the Democrats.
We just lost an election, they said, based on affordability. It's a con job by the Democrats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And now that the government shutdown is coming to a close, all eyes are going to turn to the President, and his party that is in control of both chambers here on Capitol Hill, who have promised a better and more affordable health care plan than Obamacare, and soon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I want the money to go into an account for people, where the people buy their own health insurance. It's so good. The insurance will be better. It will cost less. Everybody is going to be happy. They're going to feel like entrepreneurs, they're actually able to go out and negotiate their own health insurance, and they can use it only for that reason. That's the beauty -- only for that purpose. And if we did that, that would be so exciting. Call it Trumpcare. Call it whatever you want to call it, but anything but Obamacare. Obamacare is a disaster, just like he was as a President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President clearly knows the branding that he wants to see here, if not all the details of what this plan could look like.
But Republicans who will be responsible for those details have not even really been able to answer basic questions, about what those plans and what those proposals that could be before voters could look like.
[21:05:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDRA SMITH, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: So what would Trumpcare look like?
DR. MEHMET OZ, CMS ADMINISTRATOR: Well, these are all ideas that we're still working on in part because until the government shutdown formally ends, we don't have all the people in the room, who need to work on these programs.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS HOST: So how quickly do you expect this plan to be rolled out?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): We're hoping we -- hopefully having some ideas before Christmas, but it may take a little longer than that.
COLLINS: But is there like a comprehensive plan that people could look at and decide whether or not they think it's something that Republicans should pass?
SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): We'll have something within that when -- we'll have a side-to-side bill, when they're come -- when they're come out, when they get their vote on Obamacare subsidies, giving you--
COLLINS: You're going to have a healthcare bill--
MARSHALL: We will.
COLLINS: --by the second week of December?
MARSHALL: We will.
COLLINS: If the government reopened tonight, would Republicans have a plan to address the Obamacare subsidies?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Yes. Yes, yes. Yes, we do. We have proposals to--
COLLINS: You would have a plan tonight?
JOHNSON: Yes, we could have that ready immediately, yes.
COLLINS: OK. But a proposal's different than a plan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My lead source tonight is the Chief Executive of a state where more than 180,000 people get tax credits through the Affordable Care Act. Democratic governor of Maryland, Wes Moore.
And thank you so much for being here, Governor.
GOV. WES MOORE (D-MD): Thank you for having me.
COLLINS: Because on just the affordability, in and of itself, that you heard, the President talking about there. Do people in your state, who are paying more at the grocery store, do they believe that higher grocery prices, higher utility costs are a con job?
MOORE: The President thinks we're stupid. The President is telling us to believe our lying eyes.
I mean, Kaitlan, think about it. I mean, this past weekend, I went shopping with my daughter, and we bought -- we bought fruit, we bought bread, we -- she wanted some whipped cream. I bought some coffee, some basic items. And it was over a $100. That is not a con job. That is the fact that we are watching grocery prices continue to explode.
It's the fact that people are watching their energy prices have jumped over 20 percent, since the President of the United States went back into that office. It's the fact that we're watching everything, from the food that we are eating, to the clothes that we are wearing, to the fact that the average new car price now is over $50,000? That that is not a con job.
And so, the President knows that his policies, his tariff policies, that have made things more expensive, that they are not popular. So, what does he then do? He just tries to change the conversation, and make people focus on something else, and make other people to blame for it.
But he campaigned on this. He has not gotten it done. And I think the election results that we saw, last week, are a direct reflection of the fact that the people are not buying what he is selling.
COLLINS: Do you worry that Democrats, here in D.C., have lost the momentum from those elections, a week ago tonight, that your party gained and, as I'm sure you'll acknowledge, had not really had in a year, probably? Do you think they lost that momentum by ending this shutdown fight?
MOORE: Well, I mean, I don't know about election momentum. What I do know is, I'm not sure exactly what was accomplished from this deal.
When you look at the fact that this deal, says things like, Well, we're not going to cut SNAP, or we are going to reimburse federal workers who have been working and not getting paid during this time period? My answer is, Oh, you mean, follow the law? I'm not sure what exactly was negotiated.
I am very clear that I want the federal government reopened. I never wanted to close in the first place. This has had a more significant impact on the State of Maryland than any other state inside this country. So, we need the federal government reopened. And I'm also very clear, though, that a prerequisite for reopening the federal government should not be cutting people off of health care.
The fact that I'm still working right now. Just today, I was with military veterans. You know, I myself am military veteran. So, I was with a bunch of our fellow veterans, knowing that 24,000 veterans are also on SNAP, which I am now having to cover in the State of Maryland, because the President of the United States would rather break the law than actually you -- than actually fulfill his SNAP requirement.
And so, this is the type of thing, and these are the type of games that Washington plays, that is so frustrating, for not just chief executives in our states, but for also people who have to live and exist in the type of chaos that's being created right now.
COLLINS: So, how would you judge how Democrats handled this shutdown? Do you think they failed or they succeeded?
MOORE: What I know is that I'm still having to cover down on SNAP for my people. That, just last week, I authorized $62 million for SNAP, because I was not going to wait for the President of the United States to follow the law.
[21:10:00]
What I know, right now, is we are still about to watch people's premiums explode. Where we are going to watch families in Maryland, who are going to watch their premiums jump by $5,000, and $10,000, and $15,000, premiums that were already too high in the first place you.
And so, I don't know how to match who wins and loses when it comes to political games. What I do know is this, is that our people are losing, and that is what is so frustrating, for me, as the chief executive, and for so many people who have to live and exist, as if we are just numbers or pawns on a larger chess board that we're not in control of.
COLLINS: Who do you think those people who are going to see higher premiums, should nothing happen, should there not be an agreement on that vote that the Democrats have been promised here, who do you think those people should hold responsible?
MOORE: Well, I can tell you who I'm hearing, as I'm going all around the State of Maryland.
When I'm over in Western Maryland, and I'm talking to people in Allegheny and Garrett County, who have seen how the Trump administration has denied all federal disaster relief to them, despite having historic floods, because, in the words of the White House, Well, Maryland -- support for Maryland is not warranted.
I know when I go to Prince George's County, and I see how people saw the FBI building was now taken away via a press conference with Donald Trump, where he just made a random statement, saying that the FBI building is not going to go to a quote-unquote, Liberal state, despite the fact that this is going to be worth 7,000 jobs, $4 billion of economic activity, and was a 10-year process for the FBI building to go to the State of Maryland.
I know when I'm going over to Baltimore County or Howard County, and I'm talking to people, and they say, Well, I don't understand, if the President has the White House, the Senate and also the House of Representatives, how is it that it's the Democrats' fault?
So, I think people are pretty clear as to why we are in this shutdown in the first place, about the damage that has happened since Donald Trump has retaken the office. And so, people are pretty clear about where they're putting the blame, right now, for what's happening.
COLLINS: Well, and on the cost of living. Obviously, we talk about this at a federal level. That's what we're talking about here on Capitol Hill. But on the state level, the Maryland State Comptroller's report that came out, found that almost a third of people who have left your state since 2010, in the last 15 years, they moved to Florida. Do you believe that Florida is doing something better than Maryland is?
MOORE: No, no, because I think the things that we know that have been long-standing challenges within the State of Maryland, that one of the primary challenges has, for example, been things like the cost of housing, where 37 percent of young Marylanders said they would consider leaving the State of Maryland for one reason, housing costs.
And it's the reason that for the past two and a half years, and I've been very proud of the fact that I've been one of the most aggressive governors in the country, to address the issue of housing costs, focusing on transit-oriented development, focused on density bonuses.
Now, saying that we are going to incentivize local jurisdictions to work with the state, to build more housing, and fast. Saying, I want an inventory of all state-owned land, and saying that all state-owned land should be eligible to create more housing on it, because we've got to increase supply. Because the only way you're going to bring down costs, when you have population growing and increased demand, is you've got to increase supply.
And so, when I'm looking at things like how aggressive we've been on housing, and saying we want to build housing now and fast, the reason is because we want to be able to help bring the prices down, to help to be able to support the population growth that we're seeing, now in the State of Maryland.
COLLINS: Yes, and on that front, I mean, obviously that has been a huge issue. This data was from last month that talked about how highly-regulated the state is, and what that looks like, when it comes to residential development. Obviously, that's something you know very well.
But this is something that people are struggling with every day. And, I wonder what you think they hear, when they hear the President talk about this, he talks about a 50-year mortgage, is something that he is now floating out there, that has been brought to him, because that is such a very real concern for people, not just in Maryland, but everywhere.
MOORE: Yes. Well, you know, it's also a very real concern when it comes to housing, and building housing, is the cost of supplies. And that's where you look at things like, how is tariffs have been so damaging.
Just last week, I was doing a roundtable with small businesses in Prince George's County, and I was meeting with a woman named Julie, who runs Denizens Brewing, which is a brewing company, a family-owned brewing company, who has said that the cost of aluminum, for example, because of the cost of aluminum, has been spiking, and because all -- it's only the big boys, the big players, the massive corporations, that are able to basically buy all the domestic aluminum, that for our small businesses, they oftentimes have to import foreign aluminum, which means that all of her prices have skyrocketed, and she has not taken a salary to avoid continuing to lay off workers. [21:15:00]
And so, I'm seeing that when it comes to things like our brewers. I'm seeing that with things like our home builders, when you're talking about everything from wood and additional materials to build. And so, this is another reason why his tariff policies have not just been incredibly damaging to our long-term economic prospects, but incredibly confusing to our small businesses, who actually rely on a measure of stability and transparency, that these economic policies from this president are not providing.
COLLINS: Do you think Democrats are doing enough on that front with the President, either bringing attention to that or talking about enough?
I mean, we heard Senator Angus King, who caucuses with Democrats, yesterday, saying that in this shutdown fight, specifically, standing up to the President didn't work.
Do you think Democrats in Washington are being effective enough, in what you just laid out there?
MOORE: I think that when I'm speaking to the people of my state, the reason that the people of my state are fighting for us is because we know we fight for them. The reason that they know that I will work with anyone, but I will bow down to no one. And we are always going to make sure that the people of our state are protected, despite the type of assault that we are now seeing from Washington, D.C.
I think people need to understand and people need to see that for a lot of these elected officials, who are spending their time, coming up with reasons why we shouldn't fight, instead of actually coming up with a concerted fight? For elected officials who are spending their time, continuing to hide behind the fact that if we just don't speak up, that maybe the beatings will stop? They'll realize and the people will let them know that your leadership, in this moment, is not needed nor required, that we have got to be able to stand up for our people, and we've got to make sure that our voices are heard.
And that is why I think we're seeing momentum, in places like Maryland that in other places, and that are choosing not to do this? That we are watching them continue to fall behind, because bending the knee is never going to work with this administration.
COLLINS: Governor Wes Moore, you mentioned your service to our country. Thank you for that. And of course, a Happy Veterans Day to all of the veterans who are out there. We're so grateful for your service, and for everyone's, to this nation. Thank you.
MOORE: God bless you, and thank you so much.
COLLINS: And as we are here on Capitol Hill tonight, tomorrow is when the House is expected to try to approve the Senate-passed spending package, tomorrow, and that would bring this shutdown to an end.
But here's something to note. Lawmakers are not just voting to reopen the government, but they are also going to expand senators' ability to sue the United States government as well.
That's because tucked into one of the spending measures that is expected to pass here, tomorrow, is a new provision that requires the Justice Department to tell Congress if it's investigating a lawmaker, and if their personal information has been subpoenaed. Failure to do so could allow lawmakers to sue the government for up to half a million dollars.
Notably, the provision is retroactive to 2022, meaning that could immediately pave the way for those eight Republican senators to file their own lawsuits, after Senate Republicans said, last month, that the Special Counsel Jack Smith had obtained their phone records, via subpoena, in 2023, as he was investigating what happened with the January 6th attack.
This is how the Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries, responded to that being put into these spending bills tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): House Democrats are going to offer an amendment before the Rules Committee, to get that self-dealing sick provision out of the spending agreement.
The notion that eight Republican senators, signed off by John Thune and the Republicans, apparently in the Senate and in the House, would give themselves the ability, essentially, to rip millions of taxpayer dollars, away from the American people, so they could line their pockets, because these people were insurrectionist sympathizers, is insanity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: OK, so that's what you're hearing from the top Democrat in the House. Maybe not that surprising that he doesn't agree with this.
But listen to what the Republican Appropriations Chair, Tom Cole, had to say tonight. He told CNN, he was surprised to see this provision in the bill. And when he was asked, if it needs to be in this funding bill, Tom Cole, a Republican, said, quote, Not particularly.
Up next here for us on THE SOURCE. The problems that we found with President Trump's pitch for that 50-year mortgage that I just mentioned. It's actually blowing up inside MAGA world.
And it also comes, as tomorrow is going to be 50 days after she was elected to Congress, and Adelita Grijalva is finally being sworn in. My conversation with the Arizona Democrat about coming face-to-face with Speaker Mike Johnson, and what she plans to say to him tomorrow.
Why was her swearing-in stalled in the first place? Hakeem Jeffries says he knows, as she is said to become the decisive vote on releasing the Epstein files.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFRIES: It's because Republicans are running a pedophile protection program.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is downplaying the backlash from his MAGA base, after he floated a 50-year mortgage plan to tackle America's housing crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Is that really a good idea?
TRUMP: It's not even a big deal. I mean, you know, you go from 40 to 50 years and whatever interest you pay--
INGRAHAM: 30 to 50, yes.
TRUMP: --you pay something less from 30, that some people had a 40 and then the, now they have a 50. All it means is you pay less per month. You pay it over a longer period of time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: Now, the President may be minimizing it. But "Politico" reports tonight that the White House officials are furious, with Bill Pulte, he's Trump's head of the Federal Housing Finance Agency who put this idea in front of the President without telling others.
The report, and in Politico, tonight says, On Saturday evening, Pulte arrived at President Trump's Palm Beach Golf Club with a roughly 3-by- 5 posterboard in hand. A graphic of former President Franklin Roosevelt appeared below '30-year mortgage' and one of Trump below '50-year mortgage.' The headline was 'Great American Presidents.'
And Trump apparently bought into the idea right off the bat, because roughly 10 minutes later, he posted that same image on Truth Social.
Some of his biggest allies in the MAGA universe, though, are blasting this plan as unrealistic. That includes Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who wrote online that homebuyers would be, quote, In debt forever and in debt for life.
Here to break down the numbers is CNN's Chief Data Analyst, Harry Enten.
And Harry, can you just say how the math adds up if you're paying less per month, but paying for interest far longer?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes, I would say that this math is a little fuzzy, a little fuzzy math that we're talking about. Why are we talking about fuzzy math here? Well, yes, you would, in fact, pay less per month.
So, let's talk about a $450,000 home, your monthly mortgage payment. In a 30-year, you'd be paying about $2,700 a month, OK? In a 50-year mortgage, you would be paying less. You'd be paying about $2,452. So, that is the good thing. You would be paying less per month.
Here is the problem with all of it. You'd be paying it over a longer period of time, and the interest during that entire mortgage would just add up and be monstrous. What are we talking about here? Well, why don't we talk about, OK, we're talking, again, about the $450,000 home mortgage total interest. For a 30-year mortgage, you'd be paying about $547,000. But look at this on a 50-year mortgage, it balloons through the roof. We're talking, you're paying, get this, about $1 million in total mortgage payments, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, here, I think some people might say, Why is a 50-year mortgage even being floated? Is there any positive to something like this for homebuyers?
ENTEN: OK, yes, why is this being floated? Is because what we're seeing is it's increasingly difficult to actually get into the home- buying market. I mean, take a look here. First-time homebuyers. Median age. Back in 1991, it was 28-years-old. 2020, it was 33-years-old. Now, I actually have an excuse for not actually buying a home, because I am actually south of the median age. I wouldn't have been in either 2020, or 1991.
But here is the problem with all of this. OK, you see that 40-years- old for the median age? If you buy a house at age 40, the age you pay it off by, if you have a 50-year mortgage, is 90. What's the age of death per life expectancy? It's about 80. So in fact, you wouldn't be able to pay off the mortgage by the time you died. You just would be continuously paying, paying, paying, and you would never actually own the home, Kaitlan Collins.
COLLINS: And that does not sound ideal.
ENTEN: No, it doesn't.
COLLINS: Harry Enten, thank you for breaking down those numbers for us.
ENTEN: Thanks.
COLLINS: And I want to talk about this more. We have another economic source here with us tonight. Justin Wolfers is a Professor of Economics and Public Policy at the University of Michigan.
And Justin, when you look at this, and you look at the numbers that Harry just pointed out. The average age of first time homebuyers in the United States, it's a record high of 40-years-old right now. I mean, so as Harry noted, a person could be paying off a home well into their 90s. I wonder what you make of this, just right off the bat.
JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: Well, actually, I want to come to Harry's numbers. I love Harry. I love everything about him. He's a data nerd. But I'm an economist, so I get to add something to the cake.
So when he did his math, he said, what if the 50-year loan is the same rate as a 30-year loan? That's actually too optimistic. For a bank, a 50-year mortgage is actually riskier because there's more things that can go wrong in between.
A reasonable guess is, in fact, that the interest rate on a 50-year mortgage would be half a percent, or even 1 percent higher than it would be under a 30, which means, here's my math, for a typical home, the monthly payment would move from $3,100 to $3,000. Not very much at all. So, you'd save almost nothing on the monthly mortgage, and you have to pay for another 20 years.
The point that you make that if I take a loan, even at age 35, the idea that the perfect house for me at age 35 is the same house I would have chosen at age 85, doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So, there's a fundamental problem here, which is trying to fix what's going on with our housing market by fiddling with the mortgage market is misdiagnosing the problem.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, we've seen so many people, in Trump's world, who are upset about this, and saying that this is unrealistic, and that they agree with what you're saying.
[21:30:00]
And just on the economy overall, as we've been looking at this, and what people can afford, what the economy looks like now. The President has been insisting that prices are down. He's been arguing basically that beef and the price of that is the only issue.
I want you to listen to something he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think this. We are doing phenomenally well. This is the greatest economy we've ever had.
Their talking points, All costs are high, costs are high.
By the way, the only thing is beef. Beef--
INGRAHAM: Coffee.
TRUMP: --is a little high because the ranchers are doing great. Coffee. Coffee, we're going to lower some tariffs. We're going to have some coffee come in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I wonder what you make of that, given it is dozens of grocery prices that are up, since he took office in January.
WOLFERS: Look, every word the President just said is a lie. And worse, with that, it's such a lie that I worry that there's literally a break with reality inside the man's mind. I can tell you that because I'm a statistics nerd. You can go to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. They've got people in supermarkets, all across the country, and almost every category of goods or services sees the prices rising.
There's a reasonable argument to be had. Is inflation too high? Is inflation too low? But we have inflation. It's positive. And it's not just the nerds at the BLS who see it. When companies are giving their earnings reports, they're telling us they're raising their prices.
And every single viewer on the other side of this television set knows exactly what's happening, which is prices are rising. I don't understand the logic of looking us in the eye, and telling us an outright falsehood.
COLLINS: Justin Wolfers, always great to have your breakdown as an economist. Thank you for joining us tonight.
WOLFERS: Pleasure, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. You're going to want to hear what the newly-elected, not still newly-elected, but will be newly sworn in tomorrow, Democrat Adelita Grijalva said that she plans to say to the House Speaker Mike Johnson, when she is finally sworn in, seven weeks after winning her seat in the House.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Welcome back to Capitol Hill tonight, where lawmakers are now scrambling to return for the first House session in more than seven weeks. There's a lot of travel chaos going on, as House members are making their way back to vote on the Senate's deal, to bring the longest shutdown in U.S. history to an end.
And it will be the first vote for Representative-elect Adelita Grijalva, who was elected to her office, 49 days ago, but will be sworn in tomorrow by House Republican -- Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson at around 04:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
That is 49 days too late, not only for her, but also for the Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFRIES: It's unbelievable that for seven-plus weeks, Representative- elect Adelita Grijalva, was elected in late September, decisively, has been denied the ability to serve more than 800,000 people in Arizona. And why is that the case? It's because Republicans are running a pedophile protection program. They are intentionally hiding the Jeffrey Epstein files. But those days are over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Representative-elect Adelita Grijalva was my source, just before we came on air tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: And thank you so much for joining us.
Of course, it has been 49 days since you were elected. I wonder how it feels to know that by this time tomorrow, you will have been sworn in.
REP.-ELECT ADELITA GRIJALVA, (D-AZ): It's a little surreal. We've been waiting a very long time. And so, I'm almost like, I don't have a lot of -- how to express how I feel, until it's actually done, and I have a moment to let it sink in.
COLLINS: Is tomorrow technically going to be the first time that you've ever met Speaker Johnson in-person?
GRIJALVA: Yes, it is. Yes, I've never communicated directly with him, not once during -- from September 23rd to now.
COLLINS: I mean, your swearing-in ceremony will obviously be a point of celebration for you, for your team, for your family, I know, obviously just given what this seat means to you and your family.
GRIJALVA: Yes.
COLLINS: But do you plan to use the moment to address this with Speaker Johnson?
GRIJALVA: I do. I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to say. I'm going to be as respectful as possible, and pretend my kids are standing right there next to me when I say, This is not something -- it's undemocratic. It's unconstitutional. It's illegal. Should never happen. This kind of obstruction cannot happen again. Regardless of party. Their job is to swear people in.
And 813,000 southern Arizonans haven't had support, during this shutdown because of Speaker Johnson's lack of transparency and willingness to do his job.
COLLINS: But you do -- so you do plan to bring it up with him?
GRIJALVA: We're -- yes, I feel like I won't be able to be myself. I won't be able to, like, sort of move on, if I don't address it, personally. And we'll see what kind of reaction he has.
COLLINS: OK, we will all be tuning in to watch that, certainly.
And obviously, you've talked about what you -- what it will mean for you to actually be sworn in, be able to represent your constituents and do the work, and actually get on Capitol Hill.
GRIJALVA: Yes.
COLLINS: For people who don't know, you actually have to have a pass to get on, and you don't have one yet, as a Representative-elect.
But you will also be the 218th signature, you're expected to be, to force a vote on the release of the Epstein files that are in the possession of the federal government. Do you plan, and do you expect that those other 217 lawmakers, including the Republicans, who are voting for that, that they're still signing on to it?
[21:40:00]
GRIJALVA: I believe so. I mean, I would think that if Speaker Johnson had had taken this seven weeks, to try to convince somebody to come off, of that list? That my swearing-in wouldn't be as impactful.
But also, we have to appreciate that one of the signers also was just elected governor, Mikie Sherrill. And so, we are hoping to be able to get this expedited as soon as possible, have a vote, and people can vote their values, and express to their community, why they voted, or why they didn't vote, to bring, finally, bring justice to the survivors of Epstein.
COLLINS: What did you make of Hakeem Jeffries, the Minority Leader there, accusing Republicans of running what he described as a pedophile protection program?
GRIJALVA: I think it's pretty direct. I feel like, at this point, we are done sort of tap-dancing around what the implications of those files really mean. And anyone who is implicated needs to deal with the legal consequences, for breaking the law and committing horrific crimes against children and women.
COLLINS: Do you think that there's any chance that Speaker Johnson or the White House tries to stop that vote and that release from happening of the release?
GRIJALVA: Well, Speaker Johnson has already tried to stop the vote. He sent Congress home a week early, in order to avoid a vote. So absolutely, I think we need to be prepared to call out any obstruction in releasing the files.
COLLINS: Can I ask? Because obviously, you're coming to Washington. You're voting on this deal that has gone through the Senate now, and is coming over to the House, to reopen the government. I know that you've been opposed to that, because it doesn't include the extension of the ACA subsidies that Democrats have been saying they're fighting this fight over, for the last 40-something days.
But can I just point out that that vote is expected to happen tomorrow in the House, to reopen the government. After that, though, we think the House is going to be out of session the rest of the week. It was already scheduled that way.
GRIJALVA: Right.
COLLINS: But I wonder just what you make of that, that you're coming to have this vote, and then obviously, there's a lot of other work for the House to do that has not happened over the last 40-something days?
GRIJALVA: I don't -- yes, I don't know any other job, where you don't work for like, the majority of the last four months, 19 days over four months. It's crazy to think about. And the fact that everyone has been compensated.
When you look at federal workers and this devastation of missing yet another paycheck, it's so difficult for -- I mean, everyone that I've talked to is like, We don't know where our next meal is going to come from, but we want you to keep fighting for us. We like seeing Democrats fight for working people.
And that vote really does nothing to protect affordable health care for the American people. And Republicans have had 15 years, since 2010, when they have continued to discredit the ACA, talk about how it's wrought with all these issues. You've had 15 years to work on it.
And now, we're talking about having a vote in the Senate in December, when most -- half of the -- half of December, it's closed down for the holidays? I just -- it really is incredulous. I just cannot think of another job that that would be allowed--
COLLINS: Well--
GRIJALVA: --and it shouldn't be allowed.
COLLINS: And this--
GRIJALVA: And people in every district should be mad at their representatives for not working.
COLLINS: This funding deal will only go through January. I mean, do you think that there could be another government shutdown in two months from now?
GRIJALVA: I do -- well, and why is it that this House and Senate can only work on a budget in increments of two or three months? Why can't we have a budget that actually addresses the rest of Congress, and work on the issues that we can find some bipartisan support? I mean, that's crazy. And yes, we're going to be dealing with the same situation all over again.
COLLINS: I think a lot of Americans would probably agree with that sentiment. Democrat and Republican.
Congresswoman-elect, hopefully the last time we call you that, Adelita Grijalva, thank you for being here tonight.
GRIJALVA: Thank you.
COLLINS: And safe travels.
GRIJALVA: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Up next here on THE SOURCE. It is remarkable, the resilience of the author, Salman Rushdie. He'll join me live, for a conversation about his new project. Back to writing after surviving a horrific attack.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The highly-decorated author, Salman Rushdie, is lucky to be alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Award-winning novelist, Salman Rushdie, was just attacked, on stage, while giving a lecture in Western New York.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: A shocking scene, this morning, at the Chautauqua Institution in New York.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Salman Rushdie is on a ventilator and will likely lose an eye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That attack in August 2022, when a masked attacker stabbed Rushdie as he was on stage, more than a dozen times, left him fighting for his life. It came more than three decades after his 1989 novel, "The Satanic Verses," sparked terrifying levels of international fame and fury, with the Iranian Ayatollah calling for his killing. Iran denied any involvement in the attack.
But the 78-year-old author has lived a life like no other. Now, for the first time since he survived that assassination attempt, Rushdie has returned to his love of writing fiction.
And Salman Rushdie is my source tonight. And his new book, "The Eleventh Hour" is out now.
And it is such an honor to have you here.
And I wonder, as you wrote this book, what it was like, to write fiction again. Did it come to you easily? Was it difficult?
SALMAN RUSHDIE, AUTHOR, "THE ELEVENTH HOUR": Yes, you know, it was--
COLLINS: What was that experience like?
[21:50:00]
RUSHDIE: It was kind of joyful, because I felt I had to -- I wrote a non-fiction book, a memoir, "Knife," which dealt with the attack and its aftermath, which I had to do first. I had to kind of get that out of the way.
But the moment I'd finished that, it's like the floodgates opened again, and I started thinking of stories, and making things up, and doing what I really became a writer to do. So, I think, I mean, I felt a great deal of joy, writing these stories. I hope the readers feel something of the same.
COLLINS: Do you think if you hadn't written "Knife," that you would have been able to write this?
RUSHDIE: No, I would not. I mean, after the attack, I couldn't even think about fiction. And, I mean, to use the cliche that the elephant in the room had to be dealt with. And once I -- once I had written that book, it felt that, to my satisfaction, I had dealt with what happened to me, and then I could get back to, you know, get back to having some fun.
COLLINS: Well, you talk about this being joyful, and having fun. When you read it, as everyone will realize, death is a complex theme that is throughout this book. Did your own experience influence this in that way?
RUSHDIE: Yes.
COLLINS: Or how did that -- how did you approach that?
RUSHDIE: Well, I think pretty obviously it must have, you know? Because, I got a pretty good close-up look at the ending of the story, and then, fortunately, was able to survive it. So, that was one driving force. And the other is just I'm getting older, I'm not a kid anymore, and you think about issues like mortality more -- it becomes more personal, as you get older, so.
But I wanted the book not to have a dark quality. I wanted it to have a kind of light quality, you know? And so, actually, several of the stories, I think are quite funny. I mean, one is my first-ever ghost story, which I'm really pleased to have written. And, yes, so I think that there's an atmosphere of pleasure, even though the subject matter, you could say, is dark.
COLLINS: Well, and there's one part in the book, where, as you're writing in -- and for people who don't know, you have been a fierce advocate of free speech for obvious reasons.
RUSHDIE: Yes.
COLLINS: And among the final sentences in the book, I'm not giving away any spoilers, but you end The Old Man in the Piazza story, by writing, The people make sounds, but the sounds are shapeless, devoid of meaning... It is unclear what we must do now. What will become of us? We are at a loss to know how things will proceed. Our words fail us.
RUSHDIE: Yes, it's--
COLLINS: What do you want people's takeaway to be there?
RUSHDIE: Well, I just feel that one of the things that story is about, is about how language in our time is being damaged, and our ability to use our language to communicate with each other, and to talk and understand each other, that ability is being lost, you know? And if we -- if we actually lose the ability to talk to each other, we're in -- we're in trouble, you know?
And so, I guess the end of the story, that the passage you just read, is a kind of warning, because it's something that I feel is worth being -- we should be warned about it.
COLLINS: What happens if people don't heed that warning?
RUSHDIE: Well, what happens is the fracturing in society gets worse, people get angrier with each other, and the consequence of that is very often violence. So, we are very close to that.
COLLINS: Salman Rushdie, it's a great takeaway from this book, and the book overall. Thank you for joining tonight.
The new book is "The Eleventh Hour."
Up next here for us on Capitol Hill. Honoring U.S. service members on this Veterans Day, and how the President chose to do so. Right after this.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO - PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP LAYS WREATH TO MARK VETERANS DAY AT ARLINGTON)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: This Veterans Day, President Trump took part in the traditional wreath laying ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery, here in Washington, as he reaffirmed his commitment to renaming Veterans Day as Victory Day for World War I, as the President touted what he has done for veterans during an interview with Pat McAfee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT MCAFEE, AMERICAN SPORTS ANALYST: For you, what does Veterans Day mean, especially now that you're Commander-in-Chief again?
TRUMP: Well, to me, it means taking care of the veterans, because they've taken care of us. And you know, we have a 92 percent approval rating at the VA. And I just got back from making a speech. It was beautiful.
The veterans have taken such good care of us. What I think of with the veterans is, how do I take care of the veterans? And we've done a really good job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Former President Barack Obama also commemorated Veterans Day. He shared video of his surprise welcome to Korean and Vietnam War veterans, who landed in D.C., from Madison, Wisconsin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, 44TH U.S. PRESIDENT: Hello, everybody. As we approach Veterans Day, I wanted to stop by and just say thank you for your extraordinary service. To you, your family, the sacrifices that all of you made to protect our country is something that will always be honored.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: And here on THE SOURCE, I want to, again, extend a very heartfelt thank you to all of the veterans, and their families, for their sacrifices and their service.
Thank you so much for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
