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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Defends Ordering Epstein Investigation: "I'm Allowed To"; Trump Calls Off Endorsement Of Marjorie Taylor Greene; New Ken Burns Documentary Examines The American Revolution. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 14, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Good TV by the way.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: This is fantastic. They're both very good. They're both--
BERMAN: This one's -- this one's spicier. That one's spicier.
ENTEN: The spicier one, this was the artificial, this was the original. But the bottom line is, you can't taste the difference. And therefore, I think this will actually work out. And they both do leave the residue, which I think is--
BERMAN: Well--
ENTEN: --most important, on your hands.
BERMAN: That's the important thing, right? You have -- you can get it on your fingers.
ENTEN: The Cheetos. The Cheetos stays on your hand.
BERMAN: All right. Harry Enten, thank you very much.
ENTEN: Thank you.
BERMAN: The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. President Trump just responded to those new emails from the Jeffrey Epstein estate, on camera, for the first time. What he just told reporters on Air Force One about him being named several times in that new disclosure.
And also, a new broadside by President Trump, against Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, probably something you never thought you'd see.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, President Trump and his Attorney General have pulled a stunning 180, when it comes to the Jeffrey Epstein files, as the President is now publicly ordering the Department of Justice to launch a new Epstein investigation, after months of saying things like this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It's really a Democrat hoax.
It's a Democrat hoax. It's just a hoax. The whole Epstein thing is a Democrat hoax.
I call it the Epstein hoax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: A hoax that now apparently requires a new federal investigation.
In a social media post, earlier today, about 10:30, this morning, the President ordered Pam Bondi to, quote, "Investigate Jeffrey Epstein's involvement and relationship with Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, Reid Hoffman, J.P. Morgan, Chase, and many other people and institutions."
No mention in that post of anyone else whose name shows up in the almost 20,000 pages of Epstein documents that were released this week, including Steve Bannon, or Trump's current ambassador to Turkey, Tom Barrack, or, of course, the President himself.
Less than four hours though, after the President posted that on Truth Social, here's how the Attorney General responded, saying that she is directing a top prosecutor, Jay Clayton, to head up this investigation.
Now, Jay Clayton is someone who leads the Southern District of New York office here, and has already looked into all of this, obviously, when Jeffrey Epstein himself was indicted, during the Ghislaine Maxwell trial as well.
But here's why I said this is a complete 180 for the Attorney General. Remember, back in July, when the Justice Department and the FBI jointly announced that after an exhaustive review of over 300 gigabytes of information, they said, and I'm quoting them, from an extensive letter they put out at the time, We did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties.
Now, the Attorney General stood by that July memo, just last month, when she was testifying on Capitol Hill, before the Senate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Our memo on Epstein clearly points out that there was no client list, our July 6 memo.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, in his first comments to reporters, over the last several days, certainly since these emails came out, Wednesday morning, by the House Oversight Committee, on Capitol Hill, the President was on a flight to Florida tonight, and he was asked about this new investigation, and whether or not the President should order the Justice Department to conduct investigations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I heard they are appointing a U.S. attorney, and I hear a really good one, to look into it. I hear Southern District is going to be looking. Jay Clayton. And he's a great man, a great attorney, and he's a highly respected -- one of the most respected people in the country, in terms of law and law enforcement.
REPORTER: Do you believe that presidents should be able to order investigations?
TRUMP: Sure. I mean, I'm the chief law enforcement officer of the country. Not that I want to use that. But I am considered the chief law enforcement agent in the country. And I'm allowed to do it. I don't want to do it. I'm not doing it. I had nothing to do with that choice, as an example. That came from Pam Bondi, from the DOJ. But you can't pick a better person than Jay Clayton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The President arguing there that he had nothing to do with the Attorney General picking a prosecutor, to oversee an investigation that he explicitly called for, in a Truth Social post, about four hours before she did so.
Joining me tonight is my congressional source. A Democrat from Arizona, Senator Ruben Gallego.
And Senator, when you hear the President's comments there, what is your reaction to, first, him saying that he is the chief law enforcement agent in the country, and he can call for investigations if he wants to.
[21:05:00]
SEN. RUBEN GALLEGO (D-AZ): Well, I mean, certainly it's him using the power of government to punish his enemies, distract from his potential crimes. And it's really sad that there's -- we're going through the fifth or sixth iteration of excuses, that has come from this administration, and his -- and his friends.
But clearly, there is something there. Clearly, they're trying to hide something, or they're embarrassed about something, if now they're using the full weight of government, to basically distract from what is apparently going to be coming out soon.
COLLINS: Whenever you hear though, I mean, what -- it's, I think, a struggle for people to understand is that four months ago, the Justice Department was saying that they had already reviewed everything, and there was nothing further to investigate, no one further to charge here.
I mean, what do you make of the 180, in terms of going from that, to saying today, OK, we're going to conduct this investigation into the people the President named, not everyone who was named in those emails this week.
GALLEGO: Well, I mean, it's very simple. It's an A to B connection. This president feels guilty or thinks there's something very embarrassing that is happening, or is about to come out, when it comes to these files.
And what he knows to do is, when he's in trouble, he tries to distract and go on the attack. And now, he gets to do it with the full power of the Attorney General's office, and he'll just have Pam Bondi lie, so she -- he clearly had her lie in testimony. And now it seems like he's having her lie again, all because he cares more about his reputation than, of course, the reputation of the Department of Justice.
Look, to make this clear, the best thing we can do right now is just release all the files. This is just too much weaponization that's happening. Whether it's Democrats or Republicans that are in this files or not, it's time to just release the files and let transparency rule the day.
COLLINS: Reid Hoffman is someone that the President named and called to be investigated. He responded tonight and said, quote, "I was never a client of Epstein's and never had any engagement with him other than fundraising for MIT... The call for an investigation is an obvious ploy to avoid releasing the files." He says, "Simply release all the files, and expose the people who had both deep and ongoing relationships with Epstein."
So you're saying, Senator, that when you believe people should be accountable, you mean, if that's a Democrat who is found to have done wrongdoing, or a Republican, anyone who could be named in these Jeffrey Epstein files?
GALLEGO: Absolutely.
Look, at some point, these men were exploiting and raping young girls. These guys are still alive, right? This didn't happen decades ago. This happened a couple years ago, more than a couple years, but still enough that these men are around right now.
These powerful men are still powerful, and they still could be exploiting poor, innocent girls. And so, the fact that there is an active coverup, led by Speaker Johnson, and allies of the President, should really scare us all, because these people can still be out there, being predators.
The best thing we could do is just be transparent. Let this all come out. The public, I think, could discern who is there and actually do -- actually doing work, that is legitimate work with Epstein, and how -- and who was just a client of Epstein.
COLLINS: You've pushed a resolution in the Senate, unsuccessfully, I should note, so far, when it comes to releasing the files from the Justice Department, one they have in their capacity.
Of course, Todd Blanche said yesterday, the Deputy Attorney General, that they actually didn't have these emails that Congress had subpoenaed from the Epstein estate in their possession before this, according to him.
The House is going to vote next week on that motion, the discharge petition that got 218 votes. What do you think is going to happen if it passes, in your body?
GALLEGO: I can't predict whether it's going to get the 60-vote threshold.
I do think there's going to be a lot of Republicans are going to cross over. I do think Republicans are worried about the fact that there is a cabal of very powerful men, right now, that engaged in sexual, predatory, on young -- young girls, raping and soliciting them. I think they're worried about this, and the fact that they're still around. And I think they're going to vote that way.
I think the President, though, is going to come down. He's going to try to pressure senators to enforce the filibuster, which he was just against, last week, really, to protect himself and whatever is embarrassing in those files.
COLLINS: Senator Ruben Gallego, thank you for joining us tonight.
GALLEGO: Thank you.
COLLINS: We're also joined by Republican source tonight. Former Republican Congressman, Peter Meijer of Michigan.
And thank you for being here.
Because obviously this is all happening in the House right now.
And the President was actually just on Air Force One. He weighed in on these two Republican congresswomen that the White House tried to sway, to change their vote on this discharge petition. That's Lauren Boebert and Nancy Mace. I want you to listen to what he had to say just now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Why was your team encouraging Congresswoman Boebert and Congresswoman Mace to not pursue this?
TRUMP: Because we think it's bad to talk about it because it gets away from the subject of how well the Republicans are doing.
When you talk about the Epstein hoax, what happens is, you're not talking about how well we've done.
They want to waste people's time, and some of the dumber Republicans like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: But by announcing this investigation, aren't they just prolonging this story even further, at the White House? PETER MEIJER, (R) FORMER CONGRESSMAN: I don't think there's a way to kill the story. There's not a way to shift and move things past, right?
The government reopened 48 hours ago, from the longest shutdown in U.S. history. And how often have we been talking about that, about the consequences for SNAP recipients? No. It's Epstein, Epstein, Epstein.
With all due respect to Senator Gallego, he was in Congress for the past seven years, when all of the accusations against Epstein were known. He believes that there's a cabal of men who raped young women, who are out free, doing damage right now. And this year has been the first time he's brought up Epstein in any context or taking action. Not when Democrats were in control of the House, the Senate and the White House.
For the most part, Democrats under Biden looked at the Epstein case and said, This is a distraction. We don't need to worry about this. The Senate Judiciary tried to quash some efforts to release the flight logs, back in 2021, when the Democrats were in control there.
So, they view this as exactly, frankly, what President Trump said, as a distraction, as a way to put him on the defensive, as a way to dominate the news cycle with conjecture, with hyperbole. And frankly, I think it does a real disservice to the true victims here, who are not any closer to finding justice.
I actually agree that we should release far more of these files, simply to try to say, Let's get a handle on what this issue actually is, and stop the ceaseless conjecture and hypothesizing that's only doing damage.
COLLINS: Yes, and I will say the only thing that I've heard, because I've asked about this. We've asked Democrats on the show, Why weren't you calling for this earlier? We talked to Ro Khanna about that, specifically. The Maxwell case was still open in 2021. She wasn't convicted until later that year, I believe, so. I mean, that was obviously the criminal case was still playing out.
But on this front. Republicans are in charge now. And the White House is fighting so hard against the petition making its way through the Hill. I wonder if you think that's the right strategy on their part.
MEIJER: I think, looking back, it clearly hasn't been the right strategy.
I mean, I start with the base case, that if there was anything in here that was as toxic as all of this suggestion has been to Donald Trump? Is there any way, for four years under the Biden administration, when they were turning over every rock, pursuing every strategy, going back to Reconstruction Era legal theories, on how to deny him from returning to the Oval Office? And they had this nuclear bomb of incriminating evidence that they just kept out of the picture? Like, that just doesn't add up to me. The Occam's Razor here--
COLLINS: So, then why do you think Trump's fighting it so hard? MEIJER: I frankly, think he's used to being able to control the narrative. He's used to being able to, you know, like a cat or like a parent (ph) with a laser pointer for a young cat, being able to direct attention here or there. He's incredibly successful at it. He is a showman. And this is one area where he has not been able to do that.
COLLINS: Yes. Well, and one person who actually has criticized their handling of it, at the White House, and also Speaker Mike Johnson not swearing in Adelita Grijalva, during this shutdown. She became the 218th vote.
MEIJER: And missed out on so much important legislation during the 43 days, yes.
COLLINS: Yes, but she was saying she couldn't actually do stuff for her constituents, and she--
MEIJER: That's a fair point, yes.
COLLINS: We were broadcasting on the Hill and just -- you know this, but for everyone else -- she couldn't even come join us on set at night when we were interviewing her, because she couldn't come to the Hill at night. She didn't have a pass. I could go on the Hill as a non-elected member -- not a member of Congress, and she couldn't.
But on this point. The President posted tonight, and I'm not sure I ever thought I would see this, on Marjorie Taylor Greene.
And I just want to read a lot of this, because he said tonight that he is withdrawing his support and endorsement of Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene of the Great State of Georgia. He says, All I see is wacky Marjorie do is complain, complain, complain.
He said, it seemed to all begin when I sent her a poll stating that she could not run for Senator or Governor. She was at 12 percent, and didn't have a chance unless she had his endorsement, which she wasn't going to get.
And the President says, She has told many people she is upset I don't return her phone calls anymore. But with 219 Congressmen and women, 53 U.S. Senators, 24 Cabinet Members, and almost 200 countries, and an otherwise normal life to lead, I can't take a ranting Lunatic's call every day.
MEIJER: Is there a question there? I'm just basking in that, yes.
COLLINS: Your thoughts on that whole post?
MEIJER: I mean, I think when it comes to Marjorie, she -- she's young, she's looking over the long-term. And I think when Donald Trump is trying to secure his legacy, folks who are rapidly looking past him is something that he doesn't appreciate.
COLLINS: But does she have a point, when she says things like he's too focused on foreign policy, not on the things he ran on, which was lowering grocery prices, lowering utility bills, things here at home? MEIJER: I think in terms of the affordability agenda, there's a lot of -- there's a lot of talking points, she's now adopting, that are valid talking points.
[21:15:00]
I think there is an active effort, to try to cultivate a frustrated and disenfranchised part of the President's coalition who do not like his foreign policy. This trips very rapidly into anti-Israel to anti- Zionist to overtly anti-Semitic parts of that coalition.
I think there is a very, you know, a broke clock can be right twice a day. There are some smart things that she's picking up. There are some places, where I think it is valid for the President to respond, and to spend a little bit more time on cost-of-living issues, especially in the context of the way he's been using tariffs to gain strategic leverage in a lot of our geopolitical relationships. But that has also come at a cost that's not been insignificant for folks at home.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, he's reviewing military options for Venezuela right now, we were told yesterday. That is certainly not something that he ran on, when he was on the campaign trail, when it came to America First, and that kind of foreign policy that you talked about.
MEIJER: And that question of, when does peace through strength trip into the same kind of neocon sentiments.
I think we saw with the strike on Iran, Marjorie was definitely in that cohort that were incredibly skeptical, thinking it'd lead to World War III.
And right now, the Iranian nuclear program has been set back decades, if not permanently, and World War III didn't happen.
COLLINS: Yes, and the President touted that tonight, on Air Force One.
Former Congressman, Peter Meijer, thank you for joining us here tonight, on set.
MEIJER: Thank you. Always a pleasure.
COLLINS: And up next. We have more on the President's new effort to reframe the Epstein files to his advantage.
Plus, Congressman Eric Swalwell says he is not going to stop speaking out against the Trump administration, as he is now under a growing list of other Democrats, who are being recommended for investigation to the Justice Department. His response, ahead.
And also, the President just had a big reversal on tariffs, when it comes to grocery prices. We'll tell you what he just rolled back.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump's successful push for the Justice Department to launch an investigation into the Epstein scandal, but only for certain people, it appears, is just the latest attempt to redirect attention onto his political enemies.
And if today's Truth Social directive for the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, to investigate Epstein's relationship with people, like the former President Bill Clinton, sounds familiar? It probably is because it's something we've actually seen from the President, not too long ago.
Remember, back in September, when he called for those prosecutions of James Comey, Letitia James and Senator Adam Schiff. Well, today was now the second time the President has taken that step, that used to be extraordinary and unheard of, where he is publicly calling on his Attorney General to launch investigations, and then those investigations happen.
It breaks with norms and the independence that we have seen, throughout the last several decades, between the Justice Department and the White House.
And it comes one day after President Trump's Director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, that's Bill Pulte, we saw him walking into the West Wing, yesterday, on camera. He has referred a sitting Democratic congressman, and frequent critic of the President's, to the Justice Department for mortgage fraud allegations.
The person at the center of that referral is my source tonight. Democratic congressman, Eric Swalwell of California.
And thank you for being here, because I want to ask you about that referral, in a moment.
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): Of course.
COLLINS: But just on the President's call for this investigation today. I mean, the fact that he only named people who are Democrats, or major institutions, like JPMorgan Chase, in that. I just wonder what you made of that directive and the way the Attorney General responded.
SWALWELL: Yes. Well, it's consistent with what we've seen from the President, Kaitlan. And there's a lot of mayhem going on in Washington, not just with the President, but also with Republicans who didn't want to work for the last 50 days.
But let me just try and sort it out for you. Perhaps the most insecure, thin-skinned person ever to live, coincidentally, also happens to be the President. So, if you criticize him, he aims the Department of Justice at you. If you make a joke at him, he seeks to have you taken off the air. If you're a blue state that he doesn't like, he pulls your cancer funding. So, that's his MO. That's what he does. As you mentioned at the top, that's not normal for us.
But what's important is that we band together, and our strength is in our numbers. And so, if you're a law firm, or a university president, or an entertainment company, and you allow yourself to be picked off or won off by him? He is strong and you are weak. But if you link arms and band together, as we've seen others do? You can actually put him on his heels, and you can win the outcome, and you can better-serve those who are trusting you to lead.
COLLINS: Do you think that an investigation like this should exist, but maybe just not targeted only at Democrats? Should it be focused on anyone who was named in those emails that came out this week?
SWALWELL: On the Epstein files?
COLLINS: Yes.
SWALWELL: Sure. Yes.
And you've mentioned earlier, to my former colleague, Peter Meijer, that Democrats have not always been consistent on this. And I wanted to make sure I was. I went back to 2019, when I was calling for Labor Secretary Acosta to resign, because of his involvement with the Epstein case.
But there's no doubt, both Republicans and Democrats could have done more sooner as it relates to Jeffrey Epstein. But we are where we are now. And I think if anyone is an honest broker about this, they would say, Do a complete investigation, and any person involved, regardless of their political party, should be held accountable.
COLLINS: OK. So, you think Democrats could have done more as well.
SWALWELL: Of course, yes.
COLLINS: Can I -- on this referral, this referral of you that has now happened, I'm imagining you're not that surprised by it. Do you believe there is any merit to whatever Bill Pulte has referred to the Justice Department?
[21:25:00]
SWALWELL: No. No, it's complete nonsense. And what Trump is doing against Adam Schiff, on the same matter, is nonsense. What he's doing to Lisa Cook is nonsense. And what he's done to Tish James is nonsense. And what he will do to whatever unnamed person who will be alleged of something, next week, will also be nonsense.
But I have been one of the most vocal critics. I also have one of the only surviving lawsuits against the President, for his role in January 6. So, if he thinks for one second though, that me, Adam Schiff, Tish James, Lisa Cook, are going to back down? He's wrong. Because I'm not going to shrink, I'm not going to hide under the bed. I'm going to wake up every morning, and I'm going to fight for Californians. And if Donald Trump gets in the way, I'm going to speak out.
But we're not going away. And, again, the theme here has to be link arms and band together, and we can be bigger, and we can be better than he is. COLLINS: Have you heard from anyone at the Justice Department over this?
SWALWELL: No. No. And, again -- it will go nowhere.
COLLINS: Do you think you'll be indicted?
SWALWELL: I'm prepared for that, because that's just what he does. But I also prepared -- I'm prepared to be acquitted.
COLLINS: I mean, NBC is reporting that it's alleging several million dollars' worth of loans and refinancing based on you declaring a primary residence in Washington. What would you say to that?
SWALWELL: Yes.
COLLINS: Have you read the report?
SWALWELL: I mean, I would say I -- you can look up my finances. I don't have access to millions of dollars that, again, that's just flat-false. I'm still paying off my student loan debt, Kaitlan, like 23 years in.
COLLINS: Congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you for joining us tonight.
SWALWELL: My pleasure. Thanks.
COLLINS: And up next. As we noted, from that massive Epstein document release, to the reopening of the federal government, it was a chaotic week in Washington, to say the least. We're going to take you behind the scenes, right after this.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: It is a political feud unlike any other, and probably one that you never thought you would see.
Donald Trump, earlier, attacked Marjorie Taylor Greene. And tonight, the Republican congresswoman is responding directly to the President, after he said he's pulling his endorsement over her, over her recent criticisms of his administration.
Listen to what Marjorie Taylor Greene just responded, a few moments ago, after the President said he didn't have time to take her call every single day, referring to her as a lunatic.
Here's what MTG had to say. President Trump just attacked me and lied about me. I haven't called him at all, but I did send these text messages today. Apparently this is what sent him over the edge. The Epstein files. And of course he's coming after me hard to make an example to scare all the other Republicans before next week's vote to release the Epstein files.
Marjorie Taylor Greene says, It's astonishing really how hard he's fighting to stop the Epstein files from coming out that he actually goes to this level.
She goes on to say, I have supported President Trump with too much of my precious time, too much of my own money, and fought harder for him even when almost all other Republicans turned their back and denounced him. But I don't worship or serve Donald Trump.
Marjorie Taylor Greene says, For me, I remain America First and America Only.
She attached several tweets there, or several texts there, between her and the President, and one of his top aides. We'll see if the White House responds to that.
And of course, the White House has had quite a busy week. It came after there was a government shutdown, and one that reopened after the longest shutdown ever.
Also, that 218th Congresswoman's swearing in to force that vote, in the House, on the Epstein files.
Here's a look at behind the scenes of what happened in Washington, this week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This administration has done more with respect to transparency when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein than any administration ever.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Monday, November 10.
COLLINS: Do you personally approve of the deal that's happening right now on Capitol Hill to end the government shutdown?
TRUMP: Well, it depends what deal we're talking about. But if it's a deal I heard about, that's certainly, you know, they want to change the deal a little bit. But I would say so.
COLLINS: Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is a big ally of yours, said that she would rather see you focused on non-stop domestic policy meetings, here at the White House, instead of non-stop foreign policy meetings.
And also saying that grocery prices are up and not down, as you've said?
TRUMP: I don't know what happened to Marjorie. She's a nice woman. But I don't know what happened. She's lost her way, I think.
COLLINS: When the President says that grocery prices are down, what numbers is he basing that off?
KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL OF THE UNITED STATES: The point is that inflation is way down.
COLLINS: But grocery prices are up. You do acknowledge that?
HASSETT: Well, not everything. I mean, egg prices are down. We used to talk a lot about those.
COLLINS: I think energy -- but that's--
HASSETT: In fact, it was your first question.
COLLINS: We certainly have covered that. Energy as well. But grocery prices are up about 1.4 percent since Trump took office.
HASSETT: Right, which is a big decline in the rate of inflation and grocery prices.
COLLINS: But the President's saying that they're down. And they're up.
HASSETT: Inflation is down, is what he means.
COLLINS: When you saw that President Trump had pardoned so many of these people who are the alternate electors or worked to help overturn the 2020 election, I wonder what your reaction was.
Voice of GEOFF DUNCAN, FORMER GEORGIA LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: Here's why it matters so much to Georgia. Burt Jones is trying to run for governor as a Republican, and he's one of those that got pardoned. As Lieutenant Governor, I actually fired him from being a committee chair because he was willing to lie about an election. And most likely, me and him will end up running against each other for governor. So yes, this is a huge deal for Georgia.
[21:35:00]
ON SCREEN TEXT: Tuesday, November 11.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): It's unbelievable that for seven-plus weeks, Representative- elect Adelita Grijalva, was elected in late September, decisively, has been denied the ability to serve more than 800,000 people in Arizona.
COLLINS: You're expected to be the 218th signature, to force a vote on, on the release of the Epstein files that are in the possession of the federal government.
What did you make of the Minority Leader, accusing Republicans of running, what he described as, a pedophile protection program?
REP. ADELITA GRIJALVA (D-AZ): I think it's pretty direct. I feel like, at this point, anyone who is implicated needs to deal with the legal consequences, for breaking the law and committing horrific crimes against children and women.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Wednesday, November 12.
COLLINS: This is about to be the first White House press briefing since those emails were released. Three emails, from Jeffrey Epstein, over the last 15 years, where he specifically names Donald Trump, and he says that President Trump knew about the girls, as Jeffrey Epstein put it, because he had asked Ghislaine Maxwell to stop. That seems to be a reference to something President Trump has said about Ghislaine Maxwell, that she and Jeffrey Epstein were trying to poach people from the Spa at his Mar-a-Lago Club.
LEAVITT: Jeffrey Epstein was a member at Mar-a-Lago until President Trump kicked him out.
COLLINS: Karoline?
Karoline?
Karoline, one more on the Epstein emails?
LEAVITT: Thank you, everyone.
COLLINS: That petition to force a vote on the release of the Epstein files now has all of the votes that it needs.
How many Republicans do you think are going to vote for this?
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): I think there's going to be a deluge of Republicans.
The record is going to last longer than Trump's presidency.
What are you going to do, in 2028 or 2030, when he's no longer president, and you sit in a debate, either with a Democrat or another Republican, and they say, Why should we trust you? You voted to protect pedophiles.
COLLINS: Do you predict tonight that these files will ultimately be released by the Justice Department?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): I do. Because the American people are not letting this go.
TRUMP: It's an honor now to sign this incredible bill and get our country working again. Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
ON SCREEN TEXT: Thursday, November 13.
COLLINS: The President signing that bill late last night here. You don't often see him in the Oval Office around 10:00 p.m. But he was celebrating this longest government shutdown, on record now, coming to an end.
There was also a conversation here at the White House about the extension of those Obamacare subsidies. And it is still very much a real question for them, here in Washington, despite this government shutdown coming to an end.
Annie Farmer testified that both Maxwell and Epstein had abused her.
And this bill in the House, on its face, it would force the Justice Department to release the Epstein files that they have.
And I wonder, if any Republican is considering voting no, on it, what you would say to them tonight?
ANNIE FARMER, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Why were these people, allowed to harm so many children and young women, for so long?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: I want to get more perspective now from political expert and staff writer at "The Atlantic," David Frum, who is joining us tonight.
And David, obviously, there's been so much happening in Washington this week. One thing that happened, you know, I asked President Trump in the Oval Office, about those criticisms of his administration from Marjorie Taylor Greene.
We are now in the middle of witnessing a major blow-up between the two of them, one that a lot of people probably predicted would -- or did not expect would ever happen with the President attacking her, and her now calling the President, saying that he is lying about her, and that she believes this is all over him trying to bully other Republicans into not voting in favor of that discharge petition on the Epstein files this week.
I wonder what you make of what's playing out.
DAVID FRUM, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: It's like they put truth serum in the MAGA water cooler, and Marjorie Taylor Greene and Donald Trump are both condemned to tell the truth about the other.
Everything he says is right. They are narcissists. Marjorie Taylor Greene is right that Donald Trump has no domestic agenda except to harm ordinary people. And Donald Trump is right that Marjorie Taylor Greene is crazy. So, it's useful information all around.
But what I worry most about this, and the Epstein files, and all the things that Trump has tried to keep control of losing -- escaping his control, is he has one big distraction in his hand, and I fear he may be about to deploy it.
[21:40:00]
We are seeing, in the Caribbean, right now, the largest buildup of U.S. naval forces, in the region, since the Cuban Missile Crisis. There is no plan. There's no authorization by Congress. There's no -- there are no regional partners. It is not a war that should be fought in this way at this time. But one thing it would do is change the subject.
COLLINS: So, you're worried that he could take action on a foreign policy move, to distract from what's happening in Washington?
FRUM: Yes, I think that explains a lot of his foreign policy operations. But the forces are there. They've been pulled away from other theaters, where they might be needed. They're building up to something. Again, they have no authorization, they have no allies, they have no goals. But boy, would it change the subject? And boy, does Donald Trump right now need a subject change?
COLLINS: Yes, and we've seen what's been playing out, obviously. The President was saying tonight, he didn't know if he'd take that step. He wasn't sure. We know he's been briefed on, on options there.
But on this, in and of itself, do you think that that is the reason he's criticizing Marjorie Taylor Greene, though, is because he doesn't want other Republicans coming out, in what we've told could be a huge snowball effect, next week, when Speaker Mike Johnson actually puts this on the floor, that a lot of Republicans could end up bucking the White House and voting for this.
FRUM: I think he genuinely can't help himself. I don't know that Donald Trump has fully-formed strategic plans. He has a lot of impulses.
He's also testing the old magic. After -- one of the things that has happened after the elections in New Jersey, and Virginia, and elsewhere, and Georgia maybe most significantly, because there, there was an all -- an all-state race that Republican candidates lost, is a lot of Republicans have to be thinking, What about my future? I used to think the greatest hazard to my future might be that Donald Trump would criticize me. But maybe actually now he can't help me and might even hurt me. And that's a little bit of discipline lost.
Marjorie Taylor Greene may be the test case, where a lot of less- inflammatory Republicans are saying, If she gets away with this, we can all get away with it.
COLLINS: Yes, and she's obviously someone who has been a huge advocate of his and very loyal to the President.
FRUM: Yes.
COLLINS: Especially after January 6th, and when everything happened.
FRUM: Yes.
COLLINS: And obviously, no one can forget Biden's--
FRUM: She's not a -- she's not a good actor. I mean, she's not a hero of the Republic. But she is somebody who may be just crazy enough to actually believe the things that Donald Trump says without believing them.
COLLINS: Can I also get your thought on the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, coming out four hours after Trump says, Conduct this investigation. And she says, OK, here's the prosecutor who's in charge of it.
FRUM: Yes. It used to be thought quite improper for an attorney general to take orders from a president, about who to prosecute and who not. In this case, the hypocrisy is extreme.
But there's a real danger, that Donald Trump has been going through his TV viewing and saying, I want -- Pam Bondi, I want you to prosecute this person, that in a case you will lose, and I want you to prosecute this person.
You had Congressman Swalwell on, just a few moments ago. And President Trump is directing his Attorney General to bring a case that is obviously meritless and will obviously lose, using sometimes appointed attorney -- prosecutors who -- whose prosecutor -- whose appointments aren't even valid. And the Attorney General is submitting to this, and not resigning in outrage. It's -- she should have resigned her office a long time ago.
COLLINS: Yes, remarkable to hear what they're accusing Eric Swalwell of. He's talking about he still has student loans that he is paying off in this moment.
David Frum, it's always great to have you. And thank you for joining us on this Friday night.
FRUM: Thank you so much. For having me.
COLLINS: And up next. The President, as we know, is planning big things for the 250th birthday of America, next year. My source tonight is going to take a look at the parallels between then and now. His new docuseries about America's revolution. That is, the one and only Ken Burns is here.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: President Trump and his team are making major plans for America's 250th birthday, leading up to next year's anniversary of when the Declaration of Independence was signed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're going to have a big, big celebration, as you know -- 250 years. In some ways, I'm glad I missed that second term where it was, because--
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: --I wouldn't be your President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, we know the President has showed off his own plans for a new arch in Washington, D.C. The Treasury Department has announced plans to mint a coin with his face on both sides. And the President has also said he wants his new sculpture park ready by July. And that UFC fight that they are planning for extensively to happen on the South Lawn of the White House. The President's plans come, as my next source is about to take us back all the way to the start. That's because Ken Burns' latest documentary, "The American Revolution," premieres this Sunday on PBS.
And Ken Burns is here with me now.
And it's so great to have you.
Because you have been working on this, I don't know that people realize this, for more than a decade. And we've seen--
KEN BURNS, FILMMAKER, DIRECTOR & EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION": Yes, it's just about a decade.
COLLINS: I mean, what is -- what is it like to work on something, that extensively, and to be on the cusp of it premiering?
BURNS: Well, it's the great gift of PBS that allows us to spend that much time to do the deep dive, to get the facts right, to get the scholarship right.
We began this, when Barack Obama still had 13 months to go in his presidency. So, there's been a lot of water under the American Bridge, but we've been focused on trying to bring to life something that is normally treated with a great deal of sentimentality, nostalgia, sort of encrusted with the barnacles of that sentimentality. And it was time for us to sort of enjoy or understand, come to know the real people engaged in the Revolution.
COLLINS: Well, and I've been thinking about that. Because obviously, I mean, I think we've all been reflecting on history, lately, just given what's been happening in our own current political environment.
There was an executive order about, as the White House put it, restoring truth and sanity to American history. In that, Trump said, Over the past decade, Americans have witnessed a concerted and widespread effort to rewrite our Nation's history, replacing objective facts with a distorted narrative driven by ideology rather than truth.
[21:50:00]
I wonder, though, how that -- how you think of something like that, if you do, when also you're looking at the decision to include voices of people that maybe we don't always hear from, when it comes to the Revolution, Native Americans, people who were enslaved, women, when you're doing a project like this.
BURNS: Well, I think that's the truth. That is apparently the objective of that directive. And we've always operated that way. We think that Americans of any sort, we don't have one political axe to grind or anything. We want to tell a complete story. We live in a media world where it's a kind of a highlight film.
Babe Ruth always hits a home run. But he strikes out more often than he hits a home run, and he comes up once every nine times at bats. We wanted to know who the other batters were. And we, I think, take the sort of mystery out of a lot of the Founders. George Washington is the most important person. Without him, we don't have a country. And I think we prove it, despite flaws and errors of military judgment and other things like this, we literally don't exist without him.
And at the same time, we introduce you to scores of other people, who I had never heard of, when I began the project that we're looking forward to sharing with you, and they're brought to life by, I think, the best cast that's ever been assembled, reading off-camera, the diaries, the journals, the letters of teenagers who are fighting for the Patriots, Loyalists who understandably want to stick with the Crown, the King of England, the King of France, many other people involved and the familiar characters that we know.
So, this is not excluding anybody's history or inventing anything. This is just telling a more complete and understandable story of our origin.
COLLINS: Yes.
BURNS: And I think, at a time when Americans say that we're deeply divided, it's good to go back to that time when we were way more divided and understand what were the principles that animated our founding, what were the causes that people were willing to sacrifice their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor for?
And to me, it's one of the most inspiring stories I've ever come across. And it's not for a red state or a blue state.
COLLINS: Yes.
BURNS: It's not for young or old. It's for everyone.
COLLINS: And to show that we've been on the brink before, as a nation at the founding and other moments--
BURNS: Exactly.
COLLINS: --and what that's like to come back from that.
You talk about focusing on people that people might not have thought of or may have never heard of. Was there any one person who stood out to you, as you were making this and creating this?
BURNS: There's so many, Kaitlan. It's so interesting. 99.9 percent of the people never had their portrait painted. But it doesn't mean they didn't exist.
And so, we introduce you to a 10-year-old girl, in 1775, named Betsy Ambler, who's a refugee with her family for most of the war. We don't think of Americans being refugees. But she grew up in Yorktown, and needed to flee from there, and of course, could never go back to Yorktown after it was destroyed in the final climactic battle of the Revolution. But maybe my favorite is Joseph Plumb Martin, who's 15-years-old, in 1776. He signs up a few days after the Declaration of Independence is signed. He fights through the whole war. He's the prototypical grunt that I've met in the Civil War, that I've met in World War I, that I've met in the Second World War in Vietnam, complaining about the food, complaining about the weather, complaining about his officers, but being as brave as you could possibly ask.
And he's there in the biggest battle of the Revolution, the Battle of Long Island, where Washington makes a couple of blunders, and it's a -- it's a serious Patriot defeat that loses New York for the Patriots. It becomes a center for British and Loyalists for seven-plus years. And he's there at Yorktown, rushing over the final redoubt. The person next to him is shot dead, as he recalls in his memoir. Lafayette and Hamilton are behind him. Black troops from Rhode Island that are climbing up over the parapet of Redoubt number 10.
It's about as dramatic as you can get. And I just love it's this kid. And that's our idea of who's fighting in the Revolution. The whole story of the Revolution isn't about all of those things.
Women are central to keeping the resistance alive, in the years before the Revolution. They fight. They accompany the armies. They are at home, running businesses and farms. Thank you very much. They're hugely important.
And the first history of the Revolution was written by a philosopher and historian named Mercy Otis Warren, which we had the great good fortune of having Meryl Streep read for us--
COLLINS: Oh, wow.
BURNS: --along with 50 other extraordinary actors.
COLLINS: I cannot wait to watch it.
Ken Burns, first off, congratulations on nearly a 10-year project. And I cannot wait to watch. It's the latest documentary. "The American Revolution." It premieres, this Sunday, on PBS.
And we'll be back, right after this.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: A new CNN film looks at the extraordinary story of New Zealand's former Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern. Here's a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is found in getting the jab.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jacinda has created a New Zealand that I do not want to live in.
(CHEERING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I reject Jacindaland.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our forefathers have fought for this land, and you don't ride roughshod over it, because some girl in a skirt is on a power trip.
JACINDA ARDERN, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: They had fake gallows on the forecourt. Ropes hanging down there. They had the names of politicians, family members. It was, yes, it was -- it was grim. Really grim.
What's quite hard is I could hear everything, and they can sit there a couple hours on end just talking about how I'm Hitler, and I can hear them the whole time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: "Prime Minister" premieres this Sunday, 09:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, right here on CNN, and also the next day, on the CNN app.
Thanks so much for joining us. Hope you have a great weekend.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT" starts now.
