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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

New Videos Of Person Of Interest In Brown University Shooting; Hollywood Mourns Deaths Of Rob Reiner & Producer Wife Michele; Police: Two Homemade ISIS Flags Found In Car Registered To Suspect In Bondi Beach Shooting. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired December 15, 2025 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANGUS WATSON, CNN PRODUCER: These updates come just now, the Prime Minister of Australia, saying that it was the Islamic State ideology that motivated these men. But it was also sheer antisemitism, hate against Jews. These men took up this position atop a Hanukkah party, to try to kill as many Jewish people as they could. That included a 10-year-old girl--

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.

WATSON: --Matilda, her life stolen from her just because she is Jewish.

Anderson.

COOPER: Sickening.

Angus Watson, thank you.

The news continues. "THE SOURCE" starts now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight, a door-to-door manhunt near Brown University in Rhode Island, with a campus killer on the loose, and questions about whether the FBI's focus gave the gunman more time to escape.

I'm Brianna Keilar, in for Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.

We have breaking news, as we come on the air tonight. Authorities in Rhode Island have released some new video and still images as well, of the person of interest in the mass shooting at Brown University. And you can see here the person, dressed in black, wearing a face mask and a beanie, walking near Brown's campus, just after 02:00 p.m. on the day of the shooting. This was about two hours before the massacre began.

And from other angles, you can see the person crossing the street, walking with a distinctive gait, perhaps even a limp. Officials believe that this is the same person of interest shown in this video that was released earlier today, and the same person in this video released to the public on Saturday.

The FBI releasing the new images, and announcing a $50,000 award for any information that leads to an arrest. The Bulletin also notes the suspect is described as a male, approximately 5'8" with a stocky build.

And today, law enforcement were going door to door, on the third day of this investigation, searching front yards near campus. They were looking for evidence.

The Police Chief questioned about why this didn't happen days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: We have noticed Saturday that the potential suspect walked down Waterman Street. It was in the first video. Why would you be now looking in the bushes for something on Waterman Street, two days later after it snowed?

CHIEF OSCAR PEREZ JR., PROVIDENCE POLICE DEPARTMENT: So I just -- I just answered John (ph), the same question of how investigations, they turn and lead you in a different direction. We might have used all our energies in the first few days to investigate something, and here we are now heading back to that same place to continue to investigate. And that's why you saw that, because the investigations change on a daily basis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: That response comes after the FBI director, Kash Patel, announced yesterday that a person of interest was detained at a nearby hotel, and that the FBI used cell phone data to geolocate that person.

A CNN crew staying at the hotel saw officers bang on that person's door -- you see it here -- as law enforcement swarmed the building. But hours later, officials released that person. Rhode Island's Attorney General, saying the man detained has been cleared in the investigation.

As law enforcement is working feverishly tonight, there are legitimate questions being raised about the FBI's focus.

Here's how President Trump responded today, when asked by my colleague, CNN's Kristen Holmes, about the difficulty identifying the person responsible for this heinous act.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Has Kash Patel told you why it's been so difficult for the FBI to identify who the shooter is?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, it's always difficult. So far, we've done a very good job of doing it with Charlie, with, you know, the various times this has happened, they've done it in pretty much record time.

But you'd really have to ask the school a little bit more about that, because this was a school problem. They had their own guards. They had their own police. They had their own everything. But you'd have to ask that question, really, to the school, not to the FBI. We came in after the fact. And the FBI will do a good job. But they came in after the fact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Make no mistake, the level of security and surveillance on the Brown University campus is part of this story. But the President's instinct to deflect any scrutiny of his administration's handling of anything, in this case by blaming the school, is not helping a community in shock and mourning.

Tonight, we've learned the identities of two of the victims of this shooting.

Ella Cook was a 19-year-old sophomore from Alabama. We're told she was beloved by her church back home, and a political leader on campus, serving as the Vice President of Brown's College Republicans.

And then there's 18-year-old freshman, Muhammad Aziz Umurzokov (ph) from Virginia, an aspiring neurosurgeon whose own neurological condition as a child made him want to go into medicine.

May their memories be a blessing.

My lead source tonight is CNN Correspondent, Leigh Waldman, who joins us now from just outside of Brown University's campus.

[21:05:00]

Leigh, these newly-released images are really the clearest pictures that investigators and the public have had so far in this investigation. You cannot though see this individual's face.

LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, you're exactly right here. While we can't see a clear image of his face, we have our clearest image of his face.

And we asked the Attorney General about this today. Because he made it clear, yesterday, that we had no image of his face. We asked if this is going to play a significant role in trying to solve this case. He said, the next 24 to 36 hours are key.

But this is an important step in the right direction for their investigators trying to piece together who this person is, their movements before and after this shooting.

We saw it for ourselves today, canine units patrolling this neighborhood around Brown University, FBI, the U.S. Marshals, working alongside state and local police, knocking on doors, canvassing, trying to find additional video, additional pictures of whoever this person is, but also in those talks with the community.

We just had a man stop by here, showing us a message that he got that he was worried about. But people here are scared. That's despite the Mayor in this community telling people, You're safe. You see law enforcement here, their increased presence here. Telling people that they're safe, but people don't feel safe. Not when the FBI is saying that this person is still out there, we don't know where he is, and he should be considered armed and dangerous.

In that press conference, we heard from the Chief of Providence Police Department. He gave us some new details, saying that this was, in fact, a targeted shooting at Brown University, and that the weapon used was a nine-millimeter weapon. But beyond that, they're still being fairly tight-lipped about the new details that we are learning in this investigation, that they're trying to garner throughout the course of their investigation.

FBI agents are inside of this building, behind us, where this shooting took place, trying to recreate this scene, so they can get all of the information that they can. But we know, it's pain-staking effort that the community feels, it's taking so long, it's making them on edge.

KEILAR: Certainly, that's what we've been hearing from students today.

Leigh Waldman, in Providence, thank you so much for the reporting. We'll be back to you if any news breaks from there, while we are on the air.

And now I want to bring in Democratic senator, Jack Reed, who has proudly served the people of Rhode Island, in Congress, for 35 years now.

Anything, sir, that you can share with us, when it comes to this investigation, as you're talking to local officials, and state officials, and federal officials?

SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): Well, this has traumatized the entire state. Rhode Island is a small state. It's really a community. And people have been traumatized because, frankly, the last place you'd expect something like this to happen would be Brown University campus.

But our law enforcement officials and the mayor, Mayor Smiley of Providence, has taken a very aggressive lead, working together with federal authorities. And I can tell you, this has now become something personal to every law enforcement officer in the state. They're going to get this fellow, if it's the last thing they do.

KEILAR: How should -- and we know students, after learning that the person who initially had been detained was released, a lot of them were high-tailing it out of campus early. They're very scared.

And the Attorney General of Rhode Island today said, Whoever is on the loose, is armed and dangerous. But is also telling people to, Go about your daily lives, we're on it.

That's a hard thing to ask of people.

REED: It is. But one aspect of this is that the Providence police presence, together with other municipalities who are helping Providence, where this is a combined effort of well, every police force in the state, has increased dramatically the number of police officers on the street, especially around the Brown campus.

The other aspect of this is this appeared to be a very targeted attack, in which someone had a very specific target in mind, and I think the police officers and law enforcement people feel that he is no longer threatening people. But, again, the precautions are being taken. You can't assume away anything. But more police on the streets and a very intense investigation to find this gentleman and bring him to justice.

KEILAR: The FBI director, Kash Patel, touting yesterday, that federal law enforcement detained a person of interest, saying the FBI used cellphone data to geolocate that individual. Hours later, that individual is cleared.

Do you have questions about how the FBI is handling this, or is it just questions about the information the FBI is putting out there?

[21:10:00]

REED: Well, I think their first impulse was to use the latest technology, hoping that this would be a quick solution to a dangerous problem, and geolocating, using cellphone data, et cetera, is very advanced. But it turned out that the individual they identified was not, after analysis of where he was, the forensic data, was not the individual involved in this crime.

But that did not stop several other approaches to solving this crime, looking for videos, as we've discovered, going back to the neighborhoods and asking people if they noticed anything unusual. So, this was not a situation where everyone just focused on electronics. That was the first hint of a possible suspect. But no one surrendered. Other avenue or investigation.

KEILAR: The President was kind of quick to blame Brown University--

REED: Yes.

KEILAR: --for failing to quickly identify a suspect. And I wonder, what you think about that.

Also what you think about Brown's security level here. We've heard from students today, and I think it's kind of what you might expect from college, but these doors were open during a busy day like today. That's what we heard from one student.

What are your concerns about what the President is saying about Brown, but also questions you have about security there?

REED: Well, there have been shooting incidents in all parts of the country, on university campuses, in other areas, with security in place.

What strikes me is that this is a very calculated attack, that the person seemed to know how to avoid cameras, how to enter a building and leave quickly. He, clearly, he took precautions in terms of wearing a mask. So, this was not one of those situations, where someone is trying to make a point by a spectacular bit of violence, which is in the open, and it is designed, really, to draw attention. This was a very calculated attack.

And the University, I think -- I know, are reviewing all their procedures, but they moved very quickly. I mean, within minutes, Brown University Police were on the scene. Providence Police were on the scene. There was a shelter-in-place order, which was complied with remarkably quickly. All of that had been prepared prior by the university.

This is, I think, one of those situations where you had a very determined and very clever individual who wanted, for reasons we don't know yet, to harm people on the Brown University campus.

KEILAR: Senator Reed, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate it.

REED: Oh, thank you, Kaitlan (ph).

KEILAR: We're so sorry for what--

REED: It is -- it is--

KEILAR: --your community is dealing with.

REED: The feelings now are for those families who have lost or have seen their children injured, and it is traumatic, and it's something that we all should say a prayer about.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly we should. Thank you, sir, very much.

REED: Thank you.

KEILAR: Appreciate it.

Let's bring into the conversation now.

CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller.

And CNN's Senior Law Enforcement Analyst, former FBI Deputy Director, Andrew McCabe.

John, as we're seeing these newly-released images of a person of interest, what's the latest that you're hearing from sources about the investigation to try to find this person at this hour?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, they have some new tips, some tips that they're very focused on, more than one. So, that shows that the generation of leads is still going on and still valuable.

The pictures, as you pointed out a minute ago, with Leigh, is game- changing, in that, we see more of this suspect. We see more of him from the front. We see how he moves, how he walks. And through photogrammetry, which is a technique the FBI uses to take two dimensional images and be able to measure things, we have an idea of how tall he is, what he weighs.

So, all of that adds to a description that more people are going to be able to look at, especially someone who may know this person, and be able to recognize someone the way somebody who didn't know him and couldn't see his face wouldn't. So, those are very big steps in progress in the case today.

KEILAR: Yes, I mean, that's the thing, looking at this, Andy. If you don't know this guy, you don't know this guy, right? But there does seem to be something distinctive about how this person is walking. How essential is that, considering there is, I mean, there's no close-up of this person's face, but how important is it that there is a lot of video of this person walking?

ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, it's really important, Brianna.

[21:15:00]

So, the original video that we got on day one was essentially useless. There were no details in there that were -- that were really sharp enough to give you that kind of aha recognition moment, if you know this person, as John was just saying.

But these videos, really, you have a couple of different facts that kind of piece together. The most significant of which, for my money, is the -- is his gait. He has a bit of a distinctive gait.

He certainly favors his left leg a little bit, not in every shot, but in the crucially, in the shot where he's crossing the street, it looks -- it's not quite a full limp, but it looks like maybe he could have been injured at some point or had a surgery, or maybe a bad knee or something like that. He favors that left leg.

Now, when you combine that with a few other things, like the jacket, which initially we thought was all-black, but it appears when you see it from the front, it may actually be dark green, and some portions on the front, put the face mask together with that.

Those are the -- when you add those things together, it's possible that a girlfriend, or a coworker, or a family member, would see them all and recognize him. Where, as, if they just saw the jacket, they might be like, Oh, my friend has a jacket like that.

But my friend who walks like that, has a jacket like that and a face mask like that? That's what the FBI is hoping for tonight.

KEILAR: Yes, we'll see if they can get that information soon. That is certainly the hope of people in that community.

John Miller. Andrew McCabe. Thank you so much to both of you.

And up next. The stories of heroism, horror and heartache now emerging from Sydney, Australia, after that deadly antisemitic attack at Bondi Beach. We'll take you there, live. Plus, we're learning more about an unimaginable Hollywood tragedy, the murders of legendary director Rob Reiner and his wife, allegedly at the hands of their own son.

President Trump offering this reaction to the killings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, I wasn't a fan of his at all. He was a deranged person, as far as Trump is concerned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Sources are telling CNN tragic new details tonight about the deaths of legendary Hollywood director, Rob Reiner and his wife, producer Michele Singer Reiner.

One source tells CNN, the couple's daughter, Romy, discovered her parents dead at their home in Los Angeles, yesterday afternoon.

Within hours, the couple's 32-year-old son Nick Reiner was arrested and booked on suspicion of murder. Authorities have yet to offer details on how the Reiners died. But a new statement from the LAPD says Nick Reiner was responsible for his parents' deaths.

A source familiar with the incident also tells CNN that Nick was seen having an argument with his father, at a holiday party, Saturday night, at comedian Conan O'Brien's home. His mother also attended that party.

Tributes continue to pour in tonight for Rob Reiner, whose prolific genre-defined work includes "The Princess Bride," and "When Harry Met Sally...", also "A Few Good Men," and "This Is Spinal Tap."

My source tonight is CNN's Elex Michaelson.

Elex, tell us what your sources are telling you about where this investigation stands tonight.

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT, CNN ANCHOR, "THE STORY IS WITH ELEX MICHAELSON": Well, the case will be officially handed over to the District Attorney, tomorrow, and then it will be up for the District Attorney to go forward with those potential murder charges.

It is such a sad thing to think about, especially what this must have been like for that daughter, to arrive to her parents' home, first day of Hanukkah, and then make the discovery around 03:30 in the afternoon, that her parents, in that condition. And she called obviously for help right away, and then that arrest happened about five and a half hours later.

And it is just a complete shock for Hollywood, for Washington, for so many different people that loved and knew Rob Reiner really well over his very prolific, five, six decade long career.

KEILAR: And it was just a decade ago that Rob Reiner and his son Nick worked on that film, that 2015 film, "Being Charlie," which was inspired by Nick's struggle with drug addiction and homelessness. And it really gave you the sense that a family tragedy had, in a way, been kind of bridged. Both of them said the film brought them closer together.

How has their relationship changed over the years?

MICHAELSON: Well, as so many people know, who have family members, who have battled addiction, it's a roller-coaster. It's not all one way. And he's had a lot of challenges. He's been out of -- in and out of rehab. He's experienced homelessness. He's had all sorts of problems. And unfortunately, it seems as if that may have come back in the end, he was not able to get control of that.

KEILAR: Rob and Michele were married for 36 years. I didn't realize that actually the ending of "When Harry Met Sally..." only came about because Reiner fell in love with Michele before they finished filming.

Listen to how he's talked about this with CNN last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROB REINER, AMERICAN FILM DIRECTOR: The original ending of the film that we had was that Harry and Sally didn't get together, because I had been -- I had been married for 10 years, I had been single for 10 years, and I couldn't figure out how I was ever going to be with anybody. And that gave birth to "When Harry Met Sally" And I hadn't met anybody, and so it was going to be the two of them seeing each other after years, talking, and then walking away from each other.

I met my wife, Michele, who I've been married to now 35 years. I met her while we were making the film, and I changed the ending.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:25:00]

KEILAR: I love that. And beyond the indelible mark that these two made in Hollywood, they're also well known for their political activism. Talk a little bit about the impact that they've had with that.

MICHAELSON: I mean, extraordinary political activism, especially here in California. Rob Reiner helped run something called First 5 California, which was an effort he helped lead this proposition. It was to put taxes on tobacco companies to help fund early childhood education. It was a real passion of his, and it's something that he helped to lead.

He also was instrumental in the move in California to get rid of the ban on same-sex marriage. I talked with Governor Newsom today, and he told me that back when he was marrying same-sex couples in San Francisco in 2007, there were very few people in the Democratic Party even who were friends of his. And he called him, and the two of them became friends over that issue of same-sex marriage.

The plaintiffs in that case are actually going to come on our show tonight, "The Story Is," at 09:00 p.m. Pacific, Midnight Eastern, to talk about how much he meant to them. He helped really fund that fight.

And he was close with almost everybody in the Democratic Party. That's why you see statements from Barack Obama, and Kamala Harris, and Karen Bass, and all the major players. Every time there was a presidential fundraiser in Southern California, Rob Reiner was one of the people organizing it.

And he has really helped lift up and train an entire generation, not only of people in the movie industry, but political activists as well. And he saw that. I spoke to somebody who worked with him in that space today, and he said he felt a moral need to do the right thing, to speak out about what you were passionate about. And he saw it almost like you should be put in jail, if you didn't speak out about what is right. And that's the way that he lived his life. That was his North Star.

KEILAR: That's a really meaningful guest segment that you have coming up, Elex. So, we'll stay tuned for that. Thank you so much.

And as you said, we're going to see you back here, on CNN, at Midnight Eastern, with your show, "The Story Is."

Up next. President Trump doubling down on his inflammatory remarks on the horrific deaths of Rob Reiner and his wife, Michele. My political sources join me on this one next.

[21:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Tonight, President Trump, from the Oval Office, stood by his attacks on slain director, Rob Reiner, after suggesting this morning on social media that Reiner is responsible for his and his wife's deaths because he was a Trump critic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Mr. President, a number of Republicans have denounced your statement, on Truth Social, after the murder of Rob Reiner. Do you stand by that post?

TRUMP: Well, I wasn't a fan of his at all. He was a deranged person, as far as Trump is concerned.

You know it was the Russia hoax, he was one of the people behind it. I think he hurt himself in career-wise. He became, like, a deranged person, Trump derangement syndrome. So I was not a fan of Rob Reiner at all in any way, shape or form. I thought he was very bad for our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: Criticism abounding from within the Republican Party tonight about how bad this is for our country.

The President of the United States posting this morning, that Reiner and his wife, Michele, died, quote, "Reportedly due to the anger he caused others through his massive, unyielding, and incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as TRUMP DERANGEMENT SYNDROME, sometimes referred to as TDS. He was known to have driven people CRAZY by his raging obsession of President Donald J. Trump."

As I just noted, the Reiners' son, Nick, is currently in jail on suspicion of murdering his parents.

Among the several Republicans denouncing Trump's reaction is Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who says, This is a family tragedy, not about politics or political enemies.

Trump's former attorney, Jenna Ellis, posting, This is a horrible example from Trump (and surprising considering the two attempts on his own life) and should be condemned by everyone with any decency.

And here's Republican senator, John Kennedy of Louisiana.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): A wise man once said nothing. Why? Because he's a wise man. I think President Trump should have said nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's get perspective now from my two political sources.

David Axelrod, former senior adviser to President Obama.

And David Urban, former Trump campaign adviser.

To you first, David Urban. We should say, there is no indication from authorities that the couple's political beliefs had anything to do with their deaths. But I just wonder what your view is on Trump's post and also his comments.

DAVID URBAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST & FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Brianna, thanks.

First of all, my condolences go out to the Reiner family. It's a terrible tragedy they've suffered here.

And the President's tweets -- his Truth Social post is indefensible by anybody. I don't know how anyone could defend -- defend it.

I think the President had the opportunity, was given the opportunity, this afternoon, to clean it up and say something to the effect that, you know, All those things I disagree with him. We weren't -- we were political enemies, but you know what happened to him was a tragedy, and my sympathies with his family.

[21:35:00]

And it just -- it just rings so badly, especially in light of what just happened with Charlie Kirk. I thought after Charlie Kirk's assassination, we, as a country, reached a consensus on how we respond to these things on the right and the left.

I thought that the -- one of the few good things that came out of Charlie Kirk's death was that people came together and recognized that when people who are celebrating Charlie Kirk's death should be condemned. Rob Reiner, in fact, actually praised Erika Kirk's statement and condemned the shooter there, and said, What happened to Charlie Kirk was horrific. And so, I just think about that.

And it just it's saddening, because the President does lots of good things, his administration has done lots of good things. But yet, these kind of posts, these kind of actions, by the President, detract from all of that.

I think the President forgot elections are about addition, one plus one plus one. And as we head into the midterms, I'm wondering, how many Republicans were added to the voter rolls today. I think none.

KEILAR: Yes, and I want to get your reaction here in a second, Axe.

But you mentioned, David Urban, what Rob Reiner said. I wasn't going to play it yet. But you mentioned it, so I want to play it now. This is what Rob Reiner said in the wake of Charlie Kirk's death. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINER: I don't care what your political beliefs are. That's not acceptable. That's not a solution to solving problems. And I felt like what his wife said at the service, at the memorial they had, was exactly right. And totally, I believe -- you know, I'm Jewish, but I believe in the teachings of Jesus, and I believe in do unto others, and I believe in forgiveness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And Axe, we should note, I think one of the reasons we were reminded of that was because the Executive Producer of "The Charlie Kirk Show" actually posted that reaction today--

DAVID AXELROD, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT OBAMA, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

KEILAR: --to remind us of that. A lot of dignity and respect.

AXELROD: Yes.

KEILAR: How are you seeing this moment?

AXELROD: Well, first of all, let's take it out of the realm of politics. This was a terrible human tragedy. I don't know anybody who has kids, who doesn't look at this and just see there but for the grace of God. They had a troubled child, and this is how their lives ended, and effectively how his life is ending, if, in fact, he is charged, convicted, and so on for this.

But it's a terrible human tragedy. And the fact that the President couldn't show any grace, or empathy, or decency, and, tried to ascribe this to politics, tells you a lot. Honestly, the person who demonstrate derangement here was the President. He's so obsessed with himself that he can't -- he can't find a common humanity with others. And he's got five kids. What if this were one of his kids who was struggling that way?

So, I think this was really a revealing episode. It's not a shocking one. But it's only shocking because of the circumstances here.

And let me just say, I didn't know Rob Reiner well. I had a long conversation with him, in October, and I was so taken by what a decent, down to earth, caring person he was who -- and part of that caring was for children, and part of it was for the country. He was a really good human being, which you saw reflected in what he said after Charlie Kirk was killed. And I hope that we can learn something from his grace and his dignity and his sense of empathy.

We are all human beings. We should search for our common humanity. So, I'm not calculating how many people are going to be registered. I admire Dave for being forthright here about this, and I agree with him. But we ought not to be calculating how many people will register to vote today, or what votes might be led, or whether President made a political mistake. It was a horrific statement about his lack of humanity.

KEILAR: Yes, you said it's a -- it's a human tragedy.

And David, just some final thoughts from you, as we kind of reflect on that. I couldn't believe this news, this morning. You said you talked to him in October, Axe. I just happened to interview him in September. I couldn't believe when I saw the news, this morning.

And David Urban, I couldn't believe it, when I was covering Charlie Kirk, it broke during my show in the afternoon, I couldn't believe it, just the cost--

URBAN: Yes.

KEILAR: --to families.

[21:40:00]

URBAN: Yes, as Axe said -- look, Axe, I'm not trying to put a political calculus on this. I'm just saying, President who's worried about redistricting and counting every vote, right? This is something that the people think about, in the White House.

Look, it's a horrific tragedy. Anyone who's had -- you know, I've had brushes with people in my immediate family with mental illness and very tragic circumstances. It affects everybody in America. And not to reflect some -- and show some grace and empathy in this situation, where, as Axe said, two people lost their lives.

I only met Rob Reiner once. I disagreed, obviously, very, you know, very forcefully, with what he stood for, and I expressed it. But nobody deserves to die like this, and nobody's in the tragic circumstances which, befell this is his daughter to come home and find it just on the first night of Hanukkah. Just terrible, terrible circumstances. The man and his family deserves some grace.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly.

David Axelrod. David Urban. Thank you so much to both of you.

AXELROD: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: Up next. We're going to take you live to Australia, where the Jewish community is reeling from a mass shooting on the first night of Hanukkah. What we are learning about the attack that officials are calling an act of pure evil.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:45:00]

KEILAR: Tonight, at least 15 people are dead, and dozens are injured, after an antisemitic terror attack on a Hanukkah event, at Sydney's Bondi Beach, yesterday.

This was Australia's worst mass shooting in almost 30 years, and the victims range from 10-year-old Matilda, to 87-year-old Holocaust survivor, Alex Kleytman. Two rabbis and at least two foreign nationals were also killed.

The suspects are a father-son duo. And tonight, police are saying there are early indications that point to a terrorist attack inspired by the Islamic State. New South Wales Police Commissioner, Mal Lanyon, confirmed that the vehicle registered to the younger suspect contained IEDs and also two homemade ISIS flags.

CNN's Senior International Correspondent, Will Ripley, is with us now from Sydney.

Will, where's the investigation at this hour?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A lot of interesting details, Brianna, came out of that press conference. Another one of them, that this father and son duo traveled within the last month to the Philippines.

Now, that is noteworthy because there are portions of the Philippines, particularly in the South and the Mindanao area, that historically are predominantly Muslim and have been known to harbor groups that are sympathetic to ISIS. So the question is, did they go there? Did they get training of some kind? We don't know anything about their itinerary.

This information literally just coming in, but it's certainly a lead that investigators are tracking down with speed right now, of course, in addition to analyzing the weapons that they seized from -- and evidence that they seized from two different houses in the Sydney area, including a rental property where the father and son were staying in the days leading up to the attack.

Apparently, they told their family, their wife and their -- and their siblings, that they were actually going on a fishing vacation. But of course, we know what they were actually doing was plotting this attack, which has still much of this Bondi Beach area blocked off with crime tape, a lot of the -- a lot of the picnic equipment that was out, people who were out celebrating, it's just been left. You saw where people had to jump fences and run. Pretty haunting to be here and see it almost frozen in time.

And of course, the funerals are just now beginning today for the victims of the attack, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, it's horrific.

Will Ripley, thank you so much for being there at Bondi Beach to report on this.

I want to bring in now:

CNN's Senior Political and Global Affairs Commentator, Rahm Emanuel.

And staff writer at "The Atlantic," Yair Rosenberg.

Rahm, the Australian Jewish Association CEO says lawmakers in Australia have missed opportunities to tackle a reported rise in antisemitic sentiment there.

And of note, the suspects were known to authorities. They've been interviewed by security services in 2019. They said they weren't part of a wider cell.

Do you think the government and law enforcement missed opportunities to maybe prevent this?

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF UNDER PRES. OBAMA: Well, I don't know about this particular incidents, whether they did some -- there's going to be a lot of obviously -- forensics to figure that out.

But there's no doubt that in Australia, like around the world, there has been a rise of antisemitism. I mean, here in the United States, Jews are 2 percent of the population, but 70 percent of all the hate crimes. There was a clearly, the bombing at the synagogue in Melbourne. There was an attack on a Jewish restaurant. There have been calls on the government to do stuff.

This is, we're seeing it in Europe, you're seeing it in Australia, you're seeing it in the United States. And so, there is a rise of antisemitism.

Whether they should have known about these two? Clearly, the interview says there was an indication that they were on the radar screen of the government. But the question isn't about this. The question is, how do you prevent the next one?

KEILAR: Yes.

EMANUEL: What happened here?

And I want to do one thing, if I can, because people have recognized, Brianna, the individual, Ahmed, Syrian ethnicity. In Jerusalem, there's Yad Vashem, which is the Holocaust Memorial. When you walk in, you walk down The Path of the Righteous. Those who are non-Jews, who saved the lives of Jews.

Given that he put his own life at risk, I hope that the State of Israel and others do some form of a recognition, because with the rise of antisemitism, it should be some way that we recognize those who risked their own personal lives for the safety of Jews, and he will go down as a righteous individual.

KEILAR: Yes, that was -- and we're watching the video now -- something to behold.

Yair, since the October 7th attacks in Israel, antisemitic incidents have been on the rise here the last couple years, the majority of which were related to Israel or Zionism, according to the ADL.

Australian Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, rejects Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's accusation that recognizing a Palestinian state fueled antisemitism. What do you think?

YAIR ROSENBERG, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC, AUTHOR, DEEP SHTETL NEWSLETTER: We've had our own spate of violent anti-Israel attacks in the United States.

[21:50:00]

We had the murder of two young people outside the Jewish Museum in Washington, D.C. We had the fire-bombing of a rally of Jews rallying for hostages, which led to one of the older women there being burned to death in Boulder, Colorado. That's in the United States, which definitely did not recognize the Palestinian state, neither under Joe Biden nor under Donald Trump.

So, I find it kind of curious for Prime Minister Netanyahu to blame that particular political choice, whatever you think of it, for anti- Zionist violent attacks on Jews, because those have happened, before people -- countries have done this and after countries have done it, it doesn't seem connected.

What does seem relevant is whether or not the Australian authorities and governmental agencies had taken antisemitism as seriously as they should have, had protected Jews as much as they should have, and have understood the roots of this kind of bigotry and prejudice, including when it cloaks itself as merely anti-Israel discourse.

Because, of course, there's plenty of criticism one can level at Israel, like any other country. But this is violent hatred that, we know, dresses up in a veneer of a political cause that leads to horrific death and tragedy.

KEILAR: Yair, you have a new piece in "The Atlantic," where you write about the generational divide on antisemitism, rather than it being a partisan divide. Can you talk a little bit about that.

But also, about the reaction that your piece inspired from Vice President Vance, who said, To write an article about the generational divide in antisemitism without discussing the demographics of the various generations is mind boggling. He said, The most significant single thing you could do to eliminate antisemitism and any other kind of ethnic hatred is to support our efforts to lower immigration and promote assimilation.

ROSENBERG: So, I wrote an article that challenged a lot of conventional talking points about antisemitism in America, which tends to force it into a box of left-wing antisemitism, right-wing antisemitism, also sometimes, Muslim antisemitism and Christian antisemitism.

And said that actually, if you wanted to look at the big dividing line on antisemitism in America today, it's actually younger people are more antisemitic than older people. And we have a lot of different surveys that may disagree on different particulars and subgroups, but agree on this age divide.

And some of those surveys are like the Yale Youth Poll, the conservative Manhattan Institute's polling, David Shor, the Democratic Party political scientist, who did polling for Kamala Harris' presidential campaign, a really wide array of data. And they all find this age divide, young people being more antisemitic than older people, while also pointing out that most young people are not antisemitic, and most people in America are not antisemitic, and that's also really important.

Vice President Vance, it's not clear to me, he may have seen an excerpt of the article. He may not have fully understood what the argument was. But he is exercised by the fact that some antisemites are foreign-born. And he argues, therefore, that if we reduced migration and things like that, we would have less of that.

My point of my piece is, of course, some antisemites are white supremacists like Nick Fuentes. Some are Muslim extremists. Some are none of the -- neither -- none of the above and from other communities. But fundamentally, one of the things we need to pay attention to is actually different -- the different age groups in America, and what influences those age groups.

And the piece tried to discuss what things might be affecting younger Americans that don't affect older Americans, which is a longer conversation. But it reframes the conversation, I think, in a more productive way, than people pointing to particular groups and trying to pin as much as they can on those groups--

KEILAR: Yes. ROSENBERG: --rather than more fundamental factors--

KEILAR: Rahm--

ROSENBERG: --that drive antisemitism.

KEILAR: Rahm, what do you think about this, because -- I mean, what's clear is, there's a broad problem in America, right?

EMANUEL: Yes.

KEILAR: What do you think about that sort of generational trend and also this being used as a political argument?

EMANUEL: Well, look, I mean, one step back, antisemitism has always existed. It's just gone from implicit to explicit, and then not just -- just going to implicit, explicit, and it's associated now with violence which had been actually repressed.

Second is additional information is, there's clearly a view of Israel that's generational. This war, October 7th war, what happened and the horror that happened on October 7th, but then the continuing two years, is going to be as important a fact about the definition of Israel as a six-day war was for another generation. Views about Israel, positive or negative, have a generational split.

Antisemitism and the bill -- and the desire to act on it from a violent standpoint, from shooting people, going to a synagogue in Pennsylvania, what happened in Colorado, people at a meeting in D.C., what happened to the governor in Pennsylvania, what happened at my own property in here, things like that constantly are happening. They then take a different violent act.

I think the real question is, when you have these things, you also have people that react in a positive way towards Jews who are not Jews. But the only way to confront this is to confront with the fact and not deny it.

[21:55:00]

As I said in the earlier point, the statistic, Jews represent 2 percent of the population, but represents 70 percent of all hate -- religious-based hate crimes in America. That is in a data point about antisemitism.

And I don't want to get lost, although I think Yair's article is important, about generational. I want to get -- deal with the fact of antisemitism in the permission slip in the last five years for an act of violence, and acting on it in a vital way where the Jew is less than human.

KEILAR: Yes, it is astounding.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for the conversation. It is such an important one.

EMANUEL: Right.

KEILAR: And up next. The President escalating his war on drugs by classifying fentanyl as a weapon of mass destruction.

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TRUMP: We're formerly classifying fentanyl as a weapon of mass destruction. Which is what it is. No bomb does what this is doing.

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KEILAR: That was President Trump today, signing an executive order. And while it's not immediately clear what practical effect that might have, just moments later, he said he's considering easing federal restriction on marijuana.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We are considering that, yes.

REPORTER: Are you planning--

TRUMP: Because a lot of people want to see it, the reclassification, because it leads to tremendous amounts of research that can't be done unless you reclassify. So, we are looking at that very strongly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Thank you for joining us.

"CNN NEWSNIGHT" starts now.