Return to Transcripts main page
The Source with Kaitlan Collins
HHS Freezes Child Care Payments To MN After Fraud Claims Go Viral; Top Epstein Reporter: DOJ Files Release "Worse Than I Thought"; New Year's Day Inauguration Of NYC Mayor-Elect Mamdani Set To Feature Rep. Ocasio-Cortez And Sen. Bernie Sanders. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 30, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It's the opening, thieves made punching through concrete into a bank vault in a western German small town. And though the crooks at the Louvre made off with Crown Jewels, this gang managed to steal cash and valuables worth at least 10 million euros. That's close to $12 million. Right out of the movies.
So much to look forward to tomorrow. We'll have New Year's Eve live coverage from around the world, throughout the day, and then "New Year's Eve Live with Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen" in Times Square, starting at 08:00 p.m. on CNN and the streaming -- and streaming on the CNN app as well.
Here's wishing you a very Happy New Year.
The news continues. I'm Jim Sciutto. "THE SOURCE" starts right now.
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN HOST: The Trump administration taking action against Minnesota after a MAGA influencer's video about alleged child care fraud goes viral.
I'm Elex Michaelson in for Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
It's an honor to be filling in for Kaitlan for the first time. Good evening. We begin tonight with breaking news.
The Department of Health and Human Services just announced a freeze on all child care payments to the State of Minnesota. That comes as the Department of Homeland Security put out this video, on social media, claiming to show agents going door to door, looking for fraud.
The show of force is all part of what officers describe as a surge of federal resources. What they haven't said yet is whether they've actually found any new fraud, or anything new, that wasn't prosecuted under investigations that actually started under the Biden administration.
In tonight's announcement that HHS is suspending payments, the administration cites this YouTube video, which was posted by a conservative influencer, named Nick Shirley, who claimed to find widespread fraud at Somali-run child care centers.
CNN's Whitney Wild caught up with Shirley earlier today. Here's some of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: How do you know that you're right? How do you know that all the allegations that you're making are true?
NICK SHIRLEY, YOUTUBER: How do I know that they're true? Well, we showed you guys that -- we showed you guys what was happening, and then you guys can go ahead and make your own analysis.
WILD: We're coming -- so we can make our own analysis? Are you a 100 percent sure you're true?
SHIRLEY: Yes, I am a 100 percent sure I'm true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: So, CNN is now looking into Shirley's claims and has not independently verified his accusations.
But if the administration was interested in the allegations of fraud in Minnesota, it has been covered extensively in the media, and right here at CNN, over the last year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: High-profile federal fraud trial that connected to allegations of $250 million in stolen federal child nutrition program funds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): At least 16 reports critical of specific state agencies for allowing alleged fraud, waste or mismanagement.
COATES: What he's pointing to here are investigations into fraud in Minnesota.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I do want to ask you about the fraud scandal.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: This $300 million alleged fraud that's centered on Feeding Our Future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: So the administration's efforts in Minnesota come at the same time that the President has ramped up comments like this about Somali immigrants who live there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: How about the new thing in Minnesota with the Somalians?
They stole. Now it came out. The great U.S. attorney up there. They came out. Think of this. $9 billion. And they think that's just the beginning.
Look at Minnesota, where Somalians have taken over the economics of the state and have stolen billions and billions of dollars.
And what's happening in Minnesota with Somalia, where billions of dollars is being stolen, right? Like candy from a baby.
These Somalians have taken billions of dollars out of our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: My first source is a Republican congressmember from here in California, Representative Kevin Kiley, who has talked for many years about fraud and abuse in this state.
Congressman, welcome to the show.
REP. KEVIN KILEY (R-CA): Thanks, Elex. Good to be with you.
MICHAELSON: So, what is your reaction to what's happening now in Minnesota? And is this HHS move, to freeze all child care payments, unnecessarily harsh?
KILEY: Well, I think it depends upon the scale of the fraud. Clearly, they think it is a very large scale in order to justify that sort of action.
Parents really do rely upon federal support for child care. I'm the Chairman of the Subcommittee that has jurisdiction over this, and we held a hearing earlier this year, on the growing costs of child care that are posing a real hardship to parents.
[21:05:00]
But CNN reported in an article I was reading earlier today, that one of the lead federal prosecutors there says that it could be $9 billion out of the $18 billion in federal payments coming in, is being used for fraud. If it's truly on that scale, he said it was on an industrial scale, then of course, we don't want half of the money just going to support criminals. So, I think it just depends upon the scale and breadth of what we're dealing with.
MICHAELSON: At the start of the second Trump administration, the Republican leadership in Washington vowed to fight waste, fraud and abuse in the federal government.
Around this time last year, we heard a lot from folks like Elon Musk. Here's some of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, BUSINESSMAN AND FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm confident that over time, we'll see a trillion dollars of savings and a reduction in -- a trillion dollars of waste and fraud reduction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: So, that was Musk back in May. Instead of a trillion dollars in savings, federal spending actually went up in the last year. So, why should voters trust Republicans to be the party that can fight fraud?
KILEY: Well, I think that voters, in general, are very skeptical about the extent of fraud in government. I don't know that it's necessarily fully associated with one party or the other.
Though, I will say that, here in California, we have fraud probably that's unlike anything that we have in any other state in the country or at the federal level. When you look, for example, at the unemployment insurance fraud that occurred during COVID, where we had $32 billion worth of it that just was squandered. In fact, worse than squandered, it went to criminals who used it for further criminal activity.
And then we just had this state audit that came out and said that, not only is that kind of fraud continuing in California, but the number of agencies that are considered high-risk, meaning, they have a serious risk of waste, fraud, abuse or mismanagement, is now eight agencies, encompassing things like determination for Medi-Cal eligibility, for SNAP benefits and a lot more.
So, I think fraud is a problem that exists in many different parts of the country. And when it happens, it's absolutely unacceptable, and we need to do everything we can to fight it.
MICHAELSON: Yes, we have seen fraud in both parties.
So Governor Newsom's office put out a statement, addressing what you're talking about. This is what they put out on X. The State Auditor's "high-risk" list does NOT cite billions in current losses. It's a report to flag programs for added oversight BEFORE potential fraud occurs.
So, what's your reaction to what they're saying there?
KILEY: Yes, so this report, the auditor does it every year, and it's actually at the highest number it's been for a long time now. Eight different agencies are identified as high-risk. I believe it was four agencies when Governor Newsom took office.
And, importantly, to make that list, not only does there have to be a serious risk of waste, fraud, abuse or mismanagement. But also, the agency has failed to take corrective steps. And so, this designation does not sort of come easily. And on top of all of that, we have the $32 billion in unemployment insurance fraud. We have -- one-third of California community college applications were found to be fake.
There was a state audit that I actually requested, when I was in the legislature, on homelessness spending, where the auditor found that $24 billion was spent, and the state didn't really even keep track of where the money went, or have any metrics to evaluate its effectiveness, and homelessness increased during that time period. So, I was glad to see -- I think your next guest is Ro Khanna, that he--
MICHAELSON: Yes.
KILEY: He made a statement earlier, saying, he thinks there should be an audit of the full budget in California. That's something I would absolutely support. So, feel free to pass that on when you talk to him that I'd love to work with him on that.
MICHAELSON: I mean, that was -- that was going to be my next question about Ro Khanna. I mean, do you -- is that something the two of you could work together on? Do you think he's coming from a place of good faith in all of this?
KILEY: Yes, I mean, if he's interested in actually finding where we have waste and the potential for savings within the California budget, this should be a totally non-partisan thing.
I mean, when money is lost to fraud? And no one can deny that there's been tens of billions of dollars of it, when you look at things like the unemployment fraud we had during the COVID years. This isn't a, you know, Democrats and Republicans are against fraud.
This is the hard-earned tax dollars of our residents that's not going towards any public purpose, but is instead going towards criminals. So, I would hope that we could find bipartisan agreement on that issue, if on nothing else, because this is just a matter of trying to get our taxpayers the return on their investment that they're entitled to.
MICHAELSON: So, we have seen -- speaking of fraud, some Republicans cite fraud as a reason to let some of these ACA subsidies lapse. These are Obamacare subsidies, right now, that help about 20 million Americans, that are about to expire. Their health care premiums would likely will go up because of that.
What do you say to people who are really fearful right now that their premiums are about to go up? I know you have a plan to try to stop this. But doesn't seem like your party is doing anything about it right now.
[21:10:00]
KILEY: Well, I frankly think it's been a failure of Congress as a whole, to allow this year to end without providing for some extension that will spare people from having their health care costs skyrocket. And we're talking about 22 million people, small business owners and their employees, independent contractors, retirees, who aren't yet eligible for Medicare.
So I proposed, with Sam Liccardo, what I believe was the first bipartisan proposal to temporarily extend these tax credits, but then also to address the fraud that you're referring to, so that it's actually going to the folks who need the support. And we got several bipartisan co-authors. There's also a couple other compromise proposals that would have followed a similar formula, a temporary extension with reforms to fight fraud, and control costs.
Unfortunately, neither the Speaker, nor the Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, got behind any of the compromise proposals that had bipartisan support.
MICHAELSON: But the Speaker hasn't--
KILEY: So, it's better late than never -- well--
MICHAELSON: The Speaker hasn't gotten behind your ideas on gerrymandering. He didn't get behind your ideas on the government shutdown. He didn't get behind your idea on this, the ACA subsidies.
KILEY: Right.
MICHAELSON: What do you say to somebody who says that you're not that effective as a legislator in sort of getting these things through?
KILEY: Well, we've actually been very effective with the bill that Sam Liccardo and I proposed. We've got six Republicans and six Democrats signed on as co-sponsors. And then, we also have two other compromise measures that are out there that I've signed on to. It's just that the leadership, unfortunately, has been unwilling to take that issue on.
And the redistricting matter. Yes, I've expressed my disappointment that the Speaker allowed this redistricting war to essentially break out across the country.
So, I would say that there's a frustration certainly, that I have with leadership not advancing what are not really my ideas, I think just commonsense. But that frustration is shared by many other members as well, which is why I think you see things like discharge petitions are now becoming more common.
MICHAELSON: Yes.
KILEY: Because there is a sense that our leadership, and frankly, I say this on both sides, I think that it's been the leadership on both sides has not been as proactive as it could be, in really tackling the key challenges that are facing the country. And so, on issues like this health care measure, we have a bipartisan coalition of members that's coming together, trying to put politics aside and to fill that vacuum.
MICHAELSON: Congressman Kevin Kiley, thank you so much for coming on, and thank you for being willing to speak out for your party and against your party. It's a more interesting conversation. Really appreciate it.
KILEY: You bet. Thanks for having me.
MICHAELSON: Want to bring in my political sources now.
On the left, Karen Finney.
On the right, Doug Heye. Karen. Let's start with this, this voter issue in Minnesota, this fraud.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FMR. COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: Yes. Yes.
MICHAELSON: This was a voter who saw that YouTube video the administration is responding to. This is how that voter reacted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't follow Nick Shirley. I don't remember originally who I saw it reposted by, but it came across my feed. And, you know, I initially didn't watch the entire thing, because it wasn't anything surprising, but had a couple friends say, Hey, you should check this out. So I did watch the entire thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FINNEY: Yes.
MICHAELSON: It seems like this thing has taken off like a runaway train. Republicans are all about this.
FINNEY: Yes.
MICHAELSON: How do the Democrats respond, Karen?
FINNEY: Well, it's interesting. I just want to point out what you said. It has taken off like a runaway train, and it has become an issue that -- I mean, think about this. A YouTube video, a right-wing YouTube person -- influencer, has gotten it such that the Department of Homeland Security deployed resources.
And here at CNN, we don't even know if some of the things that he has said in that video are true. I just want us to think about that for a second, right? So given that this is a story that has--
MICHAELSON: What if they are?
FINNEY: Well then -- but shouldn't we know the answer to that when we're deploying resources, particularly given, I mean, here's what's important. Fraud is fraud and it's wrong. Period. Full stop. Let's just say that.
At the same time, I think the background on this is important. These cases have been ongoing for some time. I think it's something like 59 people were actually sentenced during the Biden administration. Thousands of cases across the country, unfortunately, have been prosecuted, starting under the Biden administration, for claims of fraud and abuse, frankly, under COVID. That's wrong. It should be investigated.
And I hope that this administration continues to investigate it, no matter where it is. And if there is -- or if there are real instances of fraud, let's take actions. [21:15:00]
I think it undergirds any idea that Republicans stand for or it sort of flies in the face of any idea that the Republicans are serious about their objection to fraud when Donald Trump keeps pardoning white-collar criminals who have been convicted in major fraud cases.
MICHAELSON: Well, yes, and to that point--
FINNEY: We've been--
MICHAELSON: To that point, Doug. We want to put up on the screen a list of some of the pardons and the commutations that we have seen from the Trump administration on fraud cases this year.
Over 12,000 families in Minnesota, by the way, get help from the sort of child care payments the Trump administration just stopped.
How does stopping payments for all of the families help the situation?
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I think what we've seen with the Trump administration this time and in the previous administration is, Shoot first and ask questions later. Or, Make the decision, and then maybe we figure out what's true and what's not true after the fact.
But Elex, I'll tell you, I first heard the phrase, Waste, fraud and abuse, when I was a House staffer. I was in a meeting in 2003 of committee communications director. And the communications director of the House Budget Committee, a guy named Sean Spicer said, We've got a plan to eliminate waste, fraud and abuse.
The waste? That's easy to find, hard to eliminate. The abuse? Sort of easier to find, sort of easier to eliminate. The fraud has always been the hardest part of it, and it's not really until we got to COVID, which sort of turned into the WrestleMania of government fraud that we've seen what a massive problem this is.
And we don't know exactly everything that's happened in Minnesota yet. But we know it's a very real problem. And it's not a surprise. Even if it's surprising how the attention has been brought through a YouTube video--
FINNEY: Well--
HEYE: --it shouldn't be a surprise that it's gotten as much attention at this point now--
FINNEY: But--
HEYE: --that it has.
FINNEY: But Doug, the point is, it's getting attention from the Trump administration because of a YouTube video. However, it got attention. Our own network has been following this case for years, too.
HEYE: Yes, I've seen the clips too. Karen, I've seen the clips too.
FINNEY: Right. And you made the same point last night about waste, fraud and abuse. My point is you can't say that the YouTube video is what brought the attention. The attention has been on this case. That's my point. My point is that Trump administration--
HEYE: I'm saying that's what bought it from the administration, very clearly.
FINNEY: Right. Because they're -- because they're right-wing influencer with who are already upset about Epstein--
HEYE: Yes.
FINNEY: --and didn't want them upset again, I guess.
HEYE: I agree. They're going to listen to listen to their YouTube vloggers more than they're going to follow you, Karen. I agree with you.
FINNEY: Well, no, we're going to follow the facts. How about that?
MICHAELSON: Well--
FINNEY: I don't expect them to follow me.
MICHAELSON: Well--
FINNEY: Just the truth and the facts.
MICHAELSON: We are trying to figure out the facts. As we do, we will keep updating this story. In the meantime, Karen, Doug, thank you so much for coming on, and sharing your perspectives. We appreciate it.
HEYE: Thank you.
FINNEY: Thanks.
MICHAELSON: Up next. The Feds failed to meet the deadline to release all of the Epstein files, and the controversy over how much is redacted is growing. The Congressman who has led the effort in the House to force that release, he is my source next.
Also, just two midnights left until it is Mamdani time in New York City. We'll dive into the new era, not just for New York, but for the Democratic Party and perhaps for the President himself. Stay with us.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELSON: Tonight, the investigative reporter who ignited the sex trafficking case against Jeffrey Epstein is speaking out about the Justice Department's handling of the Epstein files, and what we know from what's been released so far.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIE K. BROWN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, THE MIAMI HERALD: Oh, my God, this is worse than I thought. That's what I think every day. That's really what I think every day. This is worse than I thought. You know? This is like, wow, there are big people involved.
And also, the question should be raised about, why did they say that there wasn't any -- anything here? You know?
TIM MILLER, HOST, THE BULWARK PODCAST: Right.
K. BROWN: There definitely is stuff there. We're seeing some of the memos. We're seeing that there were 10 co-conspirators, you know, and there might even be more that we don't know that because we don't have the files. But there is stuff there that shows that this was a massive crime, and that there were a lot of, you know, people that were involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: So this may be just the tip of the iceberg. While hundreds of thousands of Epstein files have been released, there's a lot more to come in the New Year. Last week, the Justice Department said that it uncovered over a million additional documents, potentially related to Epstein, and that it will be a few more weeks before it can all be reviewed and then released to the public.
My source tonight is Democratic congressman, Ro Khanna, who co-wrote the law that mandates the release of these files. By the way, that deadline has already passed.
Congressman, welcome to the show. Good to be with you, as I fill in for the first time.
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Elex, really a pleasure.
MICHAELSON: Have you gotten any word on when the next batch of Epstein files will be released?
KHANNA: We're told from our sources, it will be over the next week. They are -- still have to release over a million documents.
Here are the key things, though, that we need.
The most important thing, the survivors' statements to the FBI agents. We know from the survivors and the survivors' lawyers that they have mentioned other powerful men who were on Epstein's rape island, who abused them. Those names need to come out.
And then we need the prosecution memos from 2019, and back in 2007 and 2008, because we know that Epstein was supposed to be charged on 60 counts, and many of the co-conspirators were supposed to be charged. But none of that happened. There needs to be transparency.
MICHAELSON: So, the DOJ has already blown past your deadline, and hasn't really given any word on when all the files will be released. Do you have a new deadline for when there will be actual consequences for not following the law that you wrote?
KHANNA: Well, I'm less concerned about the timeline. I'm more concerned that they're not releasing the key documents.
[21:25:00]
I mean, if they were acting in good faith and putting out the survivors' statements, putting out these prosecution memos, then they would have some leg to rest on. They could say, Well, it's a huge file. We're taking time. The point is, this doesn't take a lot of time, what I'm talking about, to release. They're just not releasing it.
The consequence can be one of many. I mean Massie and I are already talking about inherent contempt. That means, after 30 days, Bondi would be personally liable, financially, every day, and it just takes the House to pass that. We're thinking of intervening with the Southern District of New York to demand that they have a special master that actually reviews these documents. Of course, impeachment is also on the table.
And then, I just want to remind folks that every person at Justice who violates this law is guilty of obstruction of justice, and a future administration could prosecute them.
MICHAELSON: So, has anybody told you why they haven't released what you just suggested?
KHANNA: All we've heard from is the Deputy Attorney General. I believe he should come to Congress to brief us and to answer questions. And he says, We're complying, we're complying.
But when I point-blank ask him, on our Twitter exchange, Why are you not releasing the survivors' statements, but releasing survivor names? He didn't reply. When people are saying to him, Why are you not releasing these prosecution memos? He doesn't reply. He just says, Well, we're complying with the law.
But the reality is, they're not releasing information, and they're protecting powerful men who abused young girls. And this is what the American people hate--
MICHAELSON: Yes.
KHANNA: --about the system.
MICHAELSON: Well, and the American people also hate waste, fraud and abuse. You made news, this week, by pushing for a bipartisan investigation into that. And we've seen, that includes Democrats here in California, Democratic supermajority, all of Sacramento, state run by Governor Newsom.
Governor Newsom's office posted in response to your claims, quote, "It's unclear how a proposal to reinvent the State Auditor - a constitutionally independent office that already audits the budget and identifies fraud - would reduce taxpayer waste than create it. We look forward to learning more about this idea and others proposed on Twitter." Which is sort of suggesting.
First up, what's your response to that?
KHANNA: Well, look, it's a serious report. It was the Governor's own Inspector General who said that there are billions of dollars of fraud and waste. And I heard about it from people in my district. They were saying, Ro, you're calling for higher taxes. We're maybe happy to pay those higher taxes. But we want to know -- higher taxes on the very wealthy, I should clarify -- But we want to know that that tax dollars not going to get wasted.
And there was fraud and waste with COVID. There's been fraud and waste on some of the eligibilities of these programs. There's been fraud and waste on some of these infrastructure programs.
So, all I said is, I'm going to work, like I have with Thomas Massie on Epstein, I'm going to work on a bipartisan basis on the Oversight Committee, to understand what that budget is. It should be audited and make sure we're getting rid of fraud and waste. Whether it's in California or whether it's in a red state. This should not be a political issue.
And it has nothing to do against any particular Democratic politician or Republican politician. It's making sure that the American people get the receipts for what they're paying.
MICHAELSON: Because you know, there are cynics that are going to see this. And we know that you have said that you're thinking about running for president. We know that Governor Newsom has said that he's thinking about running for president. And some cynics see this as a convenient way to you -- to potentially wound an opponent in the 2028 Democratic presidential primary.
KHANNA: The Governor and I have a great relationship. We had a good exchange, wishing each other happy holidays today. I believe that the Governor could get on board with this, which is, how do we have a effort to tackle fraud? How do we have an effort to tackle waste?
When people are paying billions of dollars of taxes, they want to make sure that money is actually going for health care, for education. And it's not just California. It should be all 50 states. It should be a bipartisan basis.
I invoke FDR. He was calling for higher taxes on the very wealthy, but he said, We cannot have the inefficiencies and waste of local and state governments. It's a commonsense principle.
MICHAELSON: Well, it sounds like there's at least one California Congressman who's behind this. Kevin Kiley, who was with us in the last segment. Here's what he told us a few moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY: I think your next guest is Ro Khanna, that he--
MICHAELSON: Yes. KILEY: He made a statement earlier, saying, he thinks there should be an audit of the full budget in California. That's something I would absolutely support.
I mean, if he's interested in actually finding where we have waste and the potential for savings within the California budget, this should be a totally non-partisan thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: So, sounds like you got a partner there, huh?
KHANNA: Well, he actually made some news tonight, because I had told my staff, Let's reach out to Kevin, see if he wants to work and be the bipartisan partner on going to have an audit, and having a government report on this GAO report. So, I'll take Kevin up on his offer. And when we get this audit, you can claim some credit.
[21:30:00]
MICHAELSON: OK. Yes, THE SOURCE is personally getting rid of waste, fraud and abuse in California.
KHANNA: Yes.
MICHAELSON: Thank you very much, Congressman Ro Khanna. We appreciate it. Always great to talk with you.
KHANNA: Thank you, Elex.
MICHAELSON: Next. The excitement is building among a generation of New Yorkers, not for the Ball Drop, but for what else happens when the clock strikes midnight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELSON: While thousands erupt in celebration, at midnight, in Times Square, tomorrow, Zohran Mamdani will officially be sworn in as New York City's youngest mayor in more than a century, during a private ceremony held in an abandoned subway station beneath City Hall.
[21:35:00]
But in a separate public inauguration, aboveground, on New Year's Day, the Democratic socialist will be flanked by two of the most prominent leaders of the progressive movement. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez. And Senator Bernie Sanders, who will administer Mamdani's oath of office.
Mamdani's meteoric rise has captivated national attention, including from President Trump, who went from berating the Mayor-elect on the campaign trail to seemingly befriending him during this shockingly warm scene in the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I think you're going to have, hopefully, a really great mayor. The better he does, the happier I am, I will say. There's no difference in party. There's no difference in anything. And we're going to be helping him to make everybody's dream come true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: My political sources tonight.
On the left, Brian Tyler Cohen is host of "No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen" podcast. Averages hundreds of millions of views on YouTube every month.
And on the right, CJ Pearson is Co-Chair of the Republican National Committee Youth Advisory Council, making his debut on CNN.
Welcome, gentlemen.
BRIAN TYLER COHEN, HOST, "NO LIE WITH BRIAN TYLER COHEN": Thanks for having us.
CJ PEARSON, CO-CHAIR, RNC YOUTH ADVISORY COUNCIL: Thank you.
MICHAELSON: Brian, it is notable that right alongside Mamdani, on inauguration day, will be AOC and Bernie Sanders. And not center stage, the actual Democrats who run Congress from New York, Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries.
Brian, you spend your life online, interacting with the Democratic base every day. Is the party actually more with AOC, or with Schumer, these days?
TYLER COHEN: Well, look, I think it's clear that the energy of the party is with somebody like Zohran Mamdani. And he's been very outspoken about the fact that his political idol is Bernie Sanders. You can see that from the rallies that they're bringing -- that they're -- that they're hosting. The Fight Oligarchy rallies that AOC and Bernie hosted together. And so, it's very clear where the energy is.
And frankly, I think we're seeing in a lot of these candidates, ones who are more technologically savvy, ones who are more dynamic, who are more progressive, and that's very much in line with what we've seen from Bernie on down to AOC and now with Mamdani, who, by the way, is so charismatic and so effective at what he does that, like you said, he's even brought on Donald Trump as a fan.
MICHAELSON: Well, CJ, let's talk about that. So, we know Republicans talked over and over again that he was going to be some sort of political boogeyman.
But then, President Trump embraces him in that Oval Office meeting. And New York Magazine revealed yesterday this when -- put this up on the screen --when Mamdani walked into the Oval Office, Trump remarked, Wow, you're even better looking in person than you are on TV. And the tone never changed from there, they write, with Trump, seemingly legitimately impressed by Mamdani.
How much does that kill the potential ad campaign that the Republicans were expecting to run against the New York City Democratic socialist?
PEARSON: Well, first and foremost, thank you so much for having me.
But I got to tell you, the President is a charmer. And I think that when he looks at what's happening in New York City right now, he wants every American, whether they're in New York City, Los Angeles, or Miami, Florida, to succeed and to thrive. And so, whether that means Zohran Mamdani, to do a good job as mayor, I think that he wants him to do well. To borrow a quote from President Barack Obama, when the President does well, the country does well.
And so, New York City is one of the crown jewels of America. And so, while socialism, of course, is not necessarily an economic philosophy that's ever worked anywhere in the world, wherever it's been tried, I think President Trump is, of course, rooting for the idea that maybe Zohran Mamdani will find the error of his ways, and he will actually lean into the words of Mario Cuomo, who said that you've got to campaign in poetry and govern in prose.
Now it's time for Zohran Mamdani to figure that out. And remains to be seen if he will. But I'm hopeful. Fingers crossed for all the folks that live in New York City.
MICHAELSON: All right. Let's talk more about President Trump. Because it's towards the end of the year, and no doubt this was the year of Trump. At the beginning of this year, one of the most powerful presidents of our lifetime got a lot of stuff done, which a lot of folks on the right, really like. A lot of folks on the left, really don't.
CJ, how do you assess the first year of President Trump's second term? How do you think he's doing?
PEARSON: Well, I assess it very clearly. I think this is promises made, promises kept, by this President.
We've seen our President's not only made America safe again, he's also made incredible strides to making America affordable again. We see gas prices going down, and we see everyday goods in grocery stores going down. This is a president whose actually reversed the trend under Joe Biden, when people would go the grocery store, who would put things in their shopping cart and have to put it back. This is a president who has given the American people reassurance again.
[21:40:00]
I got to tell you, as someone who is 23-years-old, I feel like I have hope again under this President. And so, it's been incredible to see. The American people voted for this, and he has delivered everything that they asked for. He was given a mandate, not just by winning the Electoral College, by winning the popular vote, and I think the American people are very grateful for that.
MICHAELSON: Brian, promises made, promises kept. Are you feeling hope?
TYLER COHEN: No, I don't -- I don't think that's exactly correct. And frankly, I think the vast majority of Americans agree with me, considering Trump's approval rating right now is at an all-time low of 36 percent. I mean, he promised he would bring costs down.
PEARSON: Well--
TYLER COHEN: He talked about rent and housing and groceries. And right now, costs have -- everything arising, thanks to him, and his misguided trade war that everybody knew was going to rise the prices of everything--
PEARSON: That's just frankly not -- it's frankly not true, Brian.
TYLER COHEN: --because trade wars are attacks on American consumers. Inflation has not gone down. It's at 2.9 percent. It was roughly the same amount when Donald Trump took office.
Manufacturing is down -- manufacturing jobs in the United States are down. We've seen in the last couple of months, jobs are lost in this country, despite Trump's promises that he was the jobs, jobs, jobs president.
He promised free IVF. That's not happening.
He promised he wouldn't touch earned benefits. We've seen cuts to Medicaid to the tune of 17 million Americans. We've seen cuts to the ACA subsidies. That's going to impact 24 million Americans. Not going to help with anybody's costs.
And finally, he promised that he would end the Russia-Ukraine war on day one. That hasn't happened.
This guy's presidency is a graveyard of broken promises. And frankly, the vast majority of Americans can see that. That's why they're responding to him the way that they are.
MICHAELSON: CJ?
PEARSON: Yes, well, that's incredibly untrue. I think you look at this president, and the fact, you know, I love that Brian brought up the Russian-Ukraine war, a war that would not actually be happening if President Trump had been in office. But of course, due to the fecklessness and the weakness of President Biden--
TYLER COHEN: I mean, it's so interesting that the only--
(CROSSTALK)
PEARSON: You know -- you know, I let you talk, Brian. So please.
TYLER COHEN: --the only way to -- the only way to bring that--
MICHAELSON: Brian -- Brian -- Brian.
PEARSON: Brian, I let you talk. So please let me finish.
MICHAELSON: Brian, let him -- let him finish.
PEARSON: Brian, I let you speak. So please let me finish.
MICHAELSON: Brian, to -- go with that point, what is--
(CROSSTALK)
PEARSON: Due to the fecklessness--
MICHAELSON: --what is the -- what is the proof? How do you know that for sure that there would not be a war there, if President Trump was in office?
PEARSON: Well, I think it's results. You look at what President Trump has been able to do, whether it's between brokering peace between Israel and Hamas, and the incredible amount of peace deals he was able to broker throughout his presidency. This is a president who actually personifies and exemplifies peace through strength in every which way.
And so, Joe Biden, no, people didn't respect him. The world didn't respect him. And so yes, of course, Vladimir Putin viewed him as a doormat that he could roll over. They viewed Joe Biden as a doormat. They viewed President Trump as a matador, and that's exactly why President Trump continues to deliver, and deliver world peace in a way which we've never seen before.
MICHAELSON: I mean, Brian, does President Trump deserve credit for--
TYLER COHEN: Well--
MICHAELSON: --the Gaza deal, for lowering illegal border crossings? I mean, there is anything that you think he's done well?
TYLER COHEN: I think -- I think what CJ just exemplified is that he's giving Karoline Leavitt a run for his money. And it would be -- you know, it sounded better in the original North Korean, where we would normally hear that kind of a thing. But the reality is that talking about Joe Biden, this is not Joe Biden's presidency.
This is Trump's presidency. He promised there would be an end to the Russia-Ukraine war on day one. That has not happened. He promised prices would go down on day one. That has not happened. He's exacerbated high prices. He's promised free IVF. Did not happen. He promised inflation would be taken care of. Inflation is still 2.9 percent. Did not happen.
You can talk about Joe Biden until you're blue in the face. But that does not change the fact that Trump made promises on the campaign trail and hasn't delivered them. Why haven't the Epstein files been released to their full -- to the -- to their full extent, by the deadline? It's because we know that Trump is trying to cover it up.
PEARSON: Brian, why weren't you calling for the release of the Epstein files when Joe Biden was president? TYLER COHEN: Again, he has said one thing, and delivered another.
PEARSON: Why weren't you calling for that?
MICHAELSON: Yes.
TYLER COHEN: Why didn't -- why didn't -- why weren't they -- why weren't they released? It's because there was still ongoing prosecution--
PEARSON: Why weren't you calling for the release of the Epstein files when Joe Biden was president?
MICHAELSON: All right, we--
PEARSON: Why weren't -- why weren't you calling for them then?
MICHAELSON: Quick answer. Then we got to go.
TYLER COHEN: There was still an ongoing investigation until 2022.
PEARSON: So, you didn't care.
TYLER COHEN: That was appealed until 2025.
PEARSON: You didn't care then?
TYLER COHEN: There was an ongoing investigation, and that investigation led to prosecutions, the same prosecutions, by the way--
PEARSON: It's unfortunate that you didn't care about the victims of Jeffrey Epstein--
MICHAELSON: All right.
TYLER COHEN: --that right now we're seeing Donald Trump trying to cover.
PEARSON: --until it was politically--
MICHAELSON: Unfortunately--
PEARSON: --opportunistic for you.
MICHAELSON: Unfortunately, we're out of time. We could go all day with this. But we appreciate both of you coming on to share your perspectives.
Brian Tyler Cohen. CJ Pearson. Thank you so much.
PEARSON: Good to see you.
TYLER COHEN: Thanks for having us.
MICHAELSON: After a quick break, an inside look at my New Year's Day plans and why I hope you'll join me. I'll explain when we come back. [21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELSON: On Thursday, CNN will have live coverage of the Rose Parade in Pasadena for the first time in network history. I'm honored to be co-hosting the parade with Coy Wire. And headed to South Pasadena today to check out the progress.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): It's delivery day for some of the 18 million flowers featured in this year's Tournament of Roses Parade.
Hundreds of volunteers from multiple generations, hard at work, on the City of South Pasadena's float, including 38-year-old Marissa Plescia.
MARISSA PLESCIA, FLOAT VOLUNTEER: Some of my best memories are honestly volunteering here with my dad throughout my entire childhood.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): Marissa started volunteering here as an 11- year-old, alongside her dad, Santo (ph). Santo (ph) passed away in 2018. Yet Marissa returns year after year to honor his memory.
PLESCIA: It means so much to me.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): The City of South Pasadena first joined the parade in 1911. They have the oldest self-made volunteer built float. Ed Donnelly is this year's president.
ED DONNELLY, PRESIDENT, SOUTH PASADENA TOURNAMENT OF ROSES: So this is really a way for us to build community.
Welcome to the crime scene.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): Ants are stealing the food of a Sleeping Bear.
DONNELLY: The theme for the parade is The Magic of Teamwork. So we're looking at our team of ants who are going to be well-fed tonight.
[21:50:00]
MICHAELSON (voice-over): Ed says it's a 14-month process to make this vision come to life. Every inch of float required to be covered with natural materials, and that can be painstaking. For instance, each of these ants take 70 hours to cover in black beans.
MICHAELSON (on camera): So this right here is where the driver sits. His head would be covered by a cupcake on parade route. Drives about five to seven miles per hour. And right here is the steering wheel. They actually use the same vehicle every year to save money.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): It costs about a $150,000 every year for South Pasadena's entry.
It's one of 38 floats in the parade, along with 17 equestrian teams, and 19 marching bands, drawing an estimated 50 million TV and digital viewers around the world.
MICHAELSON (on camera): So this is the headquarters, Tournament House, right?
CANDY CARLSON, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TOURNAMENT OF ROSES: Yes. Tournament House.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): Candy Carlson is our tour guide of the tournament's Pasadena headquarters, which is packed with history.
MICHAELSON (on camera): How did this parade start?
CARLSON: It was all the people who lived on the West Coast, and they wanted to show their friends how beautiful it was in California, and that our flowers bloomed year-round.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): The first parade back in 1890 featured horse- drawn carriages covered in roses.
MICHAELSON (on camera): These are the tiaras over the years, right?
CARLSON: Yes.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): For over a 100 years, it's featured a royal court of local young women.
MICHAELSON (on camera): They call the Rose Bowl, The Granddaddy of Them All--
CARLSON: Yes.
MICHAELSON (on camera): --because it's the original bowl game, right?
CARLSON: It is.
MICHAELSON (voice-over): They also host the Rose Bowl Game, the first ever college football postseason bowl game in the country. That game's Hall of Fame housed here. Celebrity grand marshals attend the parade and the game.
MICHAELSON (on camera): Every Grand Marshal--
CARLSON: Yes.
MICHAELSON (on camera): --in Rose Parade history, right?
MICHAELSON (voice-over): From Shirley Temple, to Frank Sinatra, to sitting President Gerald Ford.
This year's Grand Marshal is basketball legend Magic Johnson, fitting for this year's theme, The Magic of Teamwork.
The parade attended by nearly a million spectators every year.
For Marissa, reconnecting with her inner child and her late father is the magic that keeps her coming back.
MICHAELSON (on camera): And you think of him when you do this?
PLESCIA: Oh, a 100 percent.
MICHAELSON (on camera): Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: So be sure to tune in to CNN's coverage of the Rose Parade, New Year's Day, 11:00 a.m. Eastern, 08:00 a.m. here on the West Coast, airing live on CNN, and streaming on the CNN app.
Next. He's Chevy Chase and you're not. We've got a sneak peek at the new CNN film about the candid and controversial comedy legend. Stay with us.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELSON: A new CNN film explores the life and career of a man who helped to find a generation of comedy. Chevy Chase. A warning that there is some language not suitable for all ages.
Stephanie Elam has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From "Fletch" in 1985 and--
CROWD: The Three Amigos.
ELAM (voice-over): --to "National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation."
CHEVY CHASE, ACTOR, COMEDIAN: Hallelujah. Holy (bleep). Where's the Tylenol?
ELAM (voice-over): Chevy Chase, the charismatic comedian, ruled the box office in the 80s.
MARTIN SHORT, ACTOR: He was the one that people went nuts over. Two years after a premiere of a show where no one knows him, and he's now co-starring with Goldie Hawn.
GOLDIE HAWN, ACTRESS AND FILM PRODUCER: They opened the door and there comes this six- foot-four guy. He's got presence, I mean, aside from being funny, but I mean, he really was kind of adorable.
ELAM (voice-over): "Saturday Night Live" was the perfect showcase for Chase's talent.
C. CHASE: Live from New York, it's Saturday Night.
ELAM (voice-over): Chase's signature weekend update intro.
C. CHASE: I'm Chevy Chase and you're not.
ELAM (voice-over): Is also the name of a new documentary debuting on CNN about Chase's life and career. But while cracking up crowds, Chase gained a reputation for being--
C. CHASE: Basically, an asshole, if you're part of the expression.
MARINA ZENOVICH, DIRECTOR, "I'M CHEVY CHASE AND YOU'RE NOT": There's his family and his friends who adore him and are so protective of him.
Then there's Hollywood, and I would say just doesn't really like him.
And then you have his fans. They just adore him.
C. CHASE: Thank you.
ELAM (voice-over): An improv master who knows how to use his stature to his comedic advantage, Chase is always after the laugh.
C. CHASE: It's the laugh that means everything to them and to me. Because it's as if I'm being told I'm loved, you know, as a child.
ELAM (voice-over): This from a man who had a less than loving childhood.
ZENOVICH: Chevy had a lot of pain, and he still carries around a lot of trauma to this day. His way of dealing with it was being funny.
ELAM (voice-over): His wife of more than four decades says it was time to set the record straight for Chevy and their three daughters.
JAYNI CHASE, WIFE OF CHEVY CHASE AND ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATION AMBASSADOR: It's been very hard and hurtful. We've been in love and we've been through some rough stuff.
ELAM (voice-over): The rough stuff includes addiction and depression. The 82-year-old's more recent health battles also spurred the desire to open up.
J. CHASE: We almost lost him to heart failure in February of '21. He was in the hospital for six weeks. He was on life support.
ELAM (voice-over): Zenovich hopes the film gives both his fans and haters perspective.
ZENOVICH: I think people will walk away from this and go like, you know, Wow, he's been through a lot. Maybe he's a bit of an asshole, but I understand why.
ELAM (voice-over): But Jayni Chase believes her husband is chronically misunderstood.
[22:00:00]
J. CHASE: If Chevy says something and you feel offended, it's a little more on you than him. He takes risks. You can't get where he got without being a risk-taker. So, dial it back. Get a sense of humor. He's not an asshole and neither are you.
ELAM (voice-over): Stephanie Elam. CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: I've seen the film. It's great. Be sure to tune in. "I'm Chevy Chase And You're Not" airs New Year's Day at 08:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
Thanks for joining me here on THE SOURCE. Grateful to keep the chair warm for Kaitlan. She roots for Alabama in the Rose Bowl this week. Roll Tide Roll.
I'll be back in two hours for my regular gig, anchoring "THE STORY IS" which airs every weeknight at 12:00 a.m. Eastern, 09:00 p.m. Pacific.
In the meantime, "CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
