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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Says He'll Call Savannah Guthrie Amid Search For Mother; Trump: If States Can't Count Votes "Honestly," Then "Somebody Else Should Take Over"; Melinda French Gates Reacts To New Claims Against Bill Gates. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired February 03, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In his resignation, he apologized: To the women and girls whose voices should have been heard long before now.
CNN was unable to contact Mandelson for further comment.
Max Foster. CNN. London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: And we start with breaking news tonight, as officials in Arizona say they're aware of possible ransom notes connected to the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, the 84-year-old mother of TODAY show host, Savannah Guthrie.
This comes after the entertainment news outlet, TMZ, received what it says appears to be a note, demanding payment in Bitcoin, in exchange for her release. TMZ says they shared that note that they got, with the authorities, and that they've yet to hear whether or not they believe it's authentic or not.
But it also comes as a local newsroom in Tucson says they too have handed over an unverified ransom note that they received here.
I do want to stress as we come on the air tonight, both of these notes have not been verified by investigators at this hour. But what we do know is that Arizona officials have acknowledged, they've seen these reports of the notes, and they are taking all tips and any leads, very seriously, as they continue to coordinate with the FBI.
This frantic search for Guthrie has now entered its third day as authorities have divulged little new information, while also pleading with the public for help.
The Los Angeles Times reports tonight that authorities found blood at Guthrie's home. Our sources didn't offer details as to who that blood belonged to, or where exactly on the premises it was found.
And during a press conference, earlier today, the Pima County Sheriff declined to share specific details, and candidly admitted to not having many answers to the reporters who were there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: So there was blood that was found inside the house, and you're testing it for DNA. How much blood and where was it?
SHERIFF CHRIS NANOS, PIMA COUNTY, ARIZONA: I'm not saying there's blood inside that house or outside that house.
REPORTER: Is there any indication so far as to whether this was a random abduction or targeted?
NANOS: It's like I said earlier. You know, we're looking at all the leads, and we'll -- we don't know. We're going -- we're going to assume both sides of that.
REPORTER: Do you believe that one or more than one person was involved in the kidnapping?
NANOS: I didn't -- just no clue. It could be one. It could have been more. I don't know.
We've submitted all -- all kinds of samples for DNA, and we've gotten some back, but nothing to indicate any suspects.
REPORTER: Anybody strange in the neighborhood? I know you're looking at video. Different surveillance camera or anything that we should be looking at? Different cars?
NANOS: I have nothing in that regard.
We do believe that Nancy was taken from a home against her will, and that's where we're at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We do know that investigation is very much still underway tonight, as local investigators were conducting it by helicopter, this evening. Our CNN crew caught this video from just outside Guthrie's home where she was taken, on Saturday night.
And it comes as a federal law enforcement source tells CNN that the U.S. Marshals Service, which is one of the most trained and capable federal agencies in finding victims and criminals has yet to be asked to join this search.
President Trump today weighed in on the ongoing investigation from the Oval Office, earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Have you been briefed on Savannah Guthrie's mom missing in Arizona?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think it's terrible.
REPORTER: Would you commit to more federal agents like helping out on the search?
TRUMP: Sure, I would -- I'm going to call her later on. I think it's a terrible thing. I always get along very good with Savannah. Very unusual situation, but we're going to find out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What we do know tonight is that this search for Guthrie is a race against time, as authorities say, the consequences of her going without her daily medication could be dire.
My lead source tonight is CNN's Senior National Correspondent, Ed Lavandera. He's on the ground in Arizona, exactly where that search was happening earlier.
Ed, the helicopter was flying overhead. Do we know any more about how the search is going tonight?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, the Sheriff's officials will only say that it was just part of the investigation. But it did stand out, because we had not seen anything like that happen over the course of the last 24 hours or so. So, significant, the helicopter making several passes over the course of about 30 minutes here, late this afternoon.
So, that was -- that stood out, because much of the area, and authorities had been saying that the search and the work -- the investigative work at the home, had already been completed. So, it was a little bit surprising to see them back out here like that, in that way, this afternoon.
But we're listening to investigators. And the clip you played in the montage of the press conference with investigators, this afternoon, really kind of speaks to the lack of information, investigators simply saying, We do not know where Nancy Guthrie is, we do not have a suspect. And they have very little information.
I want to play a little bit of how the call came over the radio, here in Tucson, when it was first discovered that Nancy Guthrie was missing.
[21:05:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Referenced missing person (inaudible).
Referenced Nancy, a white female, 84 years of age, 5'2" medium build... missing after 2200 hours as of yesterday. Nancy has high blood pressure, pacemaker and cardiac issues. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: So, Kaitlan, three days into this investigation, into this search, investigators are still pleading with the public to send in any kind of videos, photos, anything that might provide some sort of clue that can help them find the lead that they need to find Nancy Guthrie.
COLLINS: Yes, they're clearly asking for a lot of help.
Ed, if you learned anything this hour, let us know. We'll bring you back here on air. Thanks for being there on the ground for us tonight.
LAVANDERA: Yes.
COLLINS: And also here tonight, I've got my CNN Senior Law Enforcement Correspondent, Josh Campbell. CNN's Chief Media Analyst, Brian Stelter. And also, our Legal Analyst, Joey Jackson. All here, and I'm grateful for all of your expertise tonight.
Because Josh, one thing, as you know, everyone has been so gripped by, by this case and following this story so closely, was when this was reported today that potentially there are ransom notes. And I should note, we don't know yet if they're real or not. How do they determine if they're authentic? How do the authorities figure that out?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you note there, a healthy dose of caution is always in order whenever information like this comes to light.
That's because in these high-profile cases, investigators will receive different buckets of information. Some information might be credible. Some information they're getting might be from people who are trying to do the right thing to help, but it has nothing to do with the case. And there are, quite frankly, shall we call, mischief-makers, or worse, that simply send in information that's trying to throw sand into the gears of an investigation.
But authorities will be working to run this to ground, to determine whether these are authentic. There are various ways that investigators can go through to determine authenticity.
I worked kidnapping investigations in a past life. There are technical means that they can do that, which I won't get into. But if there are details that only the person who may have took Ms. Guthrie may have known, if that's included in the letter, that's obviously helping them kind of hone in and determine if this is actually authentic or not.
I will tell you, I can predict that if they do indeed determine that there is a credible ransom note that comes in, I don't expect we're going to be getting real-time updates from authorities. Because, in a case like this, if investigators actually open a line of communication to an abductor? That is treated so sensitively. So much can go wrong, they want to treat that with the care that it deserves, in order to try to help bring her home.
COLLINS: Yes.
And Joey, as they're trying to figure out if the ransom notes are real, and what that would look like, obviously, in response to that.
The L.A. Times reported today, as I mentioned, that there was blood found around Guthrie's home. The Sheriff did not confirm that today, as we heard from him there. He's been very careful not to confirm a lot of details. But he did say there are samples from her house that have been sent off to be analyzed.
And, I mean, when you're looking at that, what are they going to be going through that for, in terms of what they're looking for immediately, when they're trying to -- basically said the scene at the home was done, in terms of what they were gathering evidence-wise from there.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, Kaitlan, I think what we should be heartened by, in this investigation, is that there is extensive cooperation between the state and federal government. It's very well-resourced. And to your question, they'll be undergoing a lot of analysis with regard to what was at that scene.
In courtrooms throughout the country, every day, prosecutors get convictions based upon three things, right? Who has the means? Who has the motive? And who has the opportunity?
Why is that relevant to an investigation? I think prosecutors, in securing all the evidence and information that they gather, are going to be looking at those elements. Who would be motivated to do this? What would that motivation come about as a result of? What family connections, if at all, were there? What friends? What was the purpose or basis by which they would undergo something like this?
Number two, who would have the opportunity to engage in this? You can be sure that, in addition to the samples that are collected there, there's all types of surveillance, Kaitlan, that's being done in that community, not only as to the time she's missing, but times prior, to see if she was stalked or anything else. And then finally, the means and ability to do that.
And so, they'll undergo extensive analysis based upon what they find there, based upon the surveillance, based upon the extensive resources that are placed upon this case. They will use the public for leads, and I think that will assist in breaking the case, and hopefully bringing her home safely.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, everyone's hoping for that, obviously.
[21:10:00]
And Brian, just to think of what Savannah's family is going through, just you can't -- it's difficult to imagine. And -- but for her, specifically, she's incredibly high-profile, obviously. The host of the TODAY show. So far, we have not heard any credible information about whether or not it was a targeted kidnapping or abduction that happened here, that they may not know who her daughter was.
What have you been hearing from sources tonight, though, in terms of how this is playing out?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Right, and Savannah now has to wonder, on top of this awful disappearance of her mom, whether it somehow is related to her work, to her notoriety, to her fame on NBC's TODAY show.
Listen, I spoke just now with a source close to the family who would not engage in ransom note questions, does not know about the legitimacy of this possible note or not. But this family member did say, the family remains hopeful that she will be returned safely, but emphasized that time is of the essence.
I want to read what this source close to the family said to me. Whomever has her could drop her off at any fire station, any hospital, any grocery store, and there would be no questions asked. That's what a source close to the family said. And they emphasized, Nancy is 84- years-old. She needs her medications. She's in grave jeopardy without them.
One other note, Kaitlan. Recognizing the sensitive nature of the situation, the Guthrie family has been trying to keep some of the details related to the investigation out of the media. There is so much public curiosity, and so much of this national attention is helping bring in tips.
But of course, as we've been hearing from Josh and Joey, this is so sensitive, and if there is some communication with an abductor, then, of course, that's going to be handled very carefully by the authorities.
COLLINS: Well, and Josh, that was my question today, watching that press conference. Do you think when the Sheriff is not answering specifics, and offering any, really, news there in that press conference, is that because they don't know anything more? Or they just don't want to divulge what they do know?
CAMPBELL: Well, I think it's a bit of both.
And here's a reality. What we're seeing here is a collision between an appetite by all of us, to have instant information, to know exactly what happened. That's the information age that we're in.
But that's not often how law enforcement investigations actually work. They're meticulous, they're tedious. You're going through evidence, you're gathering information, trying to find that one lead that can send your case in the direction that you hope, in this case, obviously, the safe recovery of Nancy Guthrie.
But the Sheriff is exasperated, because we live in this era where, in law enforcement, there's actually a term for it, it's called the CSI Effect. People, because of entertainment media, they think that things can be solved so quickly. It's just not the case.
COLLINS: Yes.
CAMPBELL: One thing I will tell you, having worked these cases, as the sun goes down there, and these agents get ready to end their day, the next shift takes over? That is the most gutting feeling in the world, going to bed, knowing that you have a potential victim out there who is being held against their will for yet another night.
So, in this case, this is not for a lack of will and trying by law enforcement. Sometimes, these cases are just so hard because there aren't actual leads.
COLLINS: Yes.
Josh Campbell. Joey Jackson. Brian Stelter. Grateful to have all of you here tonight.
And I should note, I want to remind you, officials are asking anyone who has any information to please contact the Pima County Sheriff's Office. You can do so at 520-351-4900. We're all keeping the Guthrie family in our prayers during this time. I'll tweet that number out as well. If anyone has any information.
Still ahead here tonight, we'll continue to follow that investigation.
We also have a lot of more breaking news ahead, including what the President said to me today in the Oval Office, about this call for Republicans to take over and nationalize voting. What does Senator Bernie Sanders make of that? He'll join me live, right after this.
And also, inside that FBI raid on the elections office in Georgia, there's new video showing a chaotic and confusing scene, it appears.
And also, what the President said when I asked him about the Epstein files.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: A lot of women who were -- are survivors of Epstein's are unhappy with those redactions that came out. Some of them, entire witness interviews are totally blacked out. Do you think that they should be more transparent?
TRUMP: Well, they're also unhappy with the fact that they thought they released too much. You know, I heard that. And you're telling me something else. No. I think it's really time for the country to get onto something else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Despite the intent of our nation's founders, which they laid out explicitly, the President dug in on his calls to upend 250 years of states running their own elections, and in the process of it today, undercut what we've heard from some Republicans on Capitol Hill and their attempts to spin his unconstitutional demand, with this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What exactly did you mean when you said that you should nationalize elections, and which 15 states were you talking about?
TRUMP: I want to see elections be honest. And if a state can't run an election, I think the people behind me should do something about it.
Because, you know, if you think about it, a state is an agent for the federal government in elections. I don't know why the federal government doesn't do them anyway. But when you see some of these states about how horribly they run their elections, what a disgrace it is.
I think the federal government -- when you see crooked elections, and we had plenty of them. And, by the way, we had them last time. But go to 2020. Look at the facts that are coming out. Rigged, crooked elections. If we have areas -- take a look at Detroit. Take a look at Pennsylvania. Take a look at Philadelphia. You go take a look at Atlanta. Look at some of the places that -- horrible corruption on elections, and the federal government should not allow that.
The federal government should get involved. These are agents of the federal government to count the votes. If they can't count the votes legally and honestly, then somebody else should take over.
COLLINS: But the Constitution says it should be states that administer elections, Mr. President.
TRUMP: Go ahead. Yes--
COLLINS: That's what the Constitution says.
TRUMP: You know what? They can administer the election, but they have to do it honestly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00]
COLLINS: My next source is the Independent Senator from Vermont. Bernie Sanders is here.
You were laughing, while watching that exchange.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Yes, I was.
COLLINS: Why -- what were you laughing?
SANDERS: Because I was thinking about this guy, on the phone, after the 2020 election, talking to the Secretary of State in Georgia, and saying to him, All I need, get me a 11,000 -- whatever it is -- votes that I can win Georgia.
This is Mr. Honesty and Mr. Integrity, who provoked an insurrection on January 6th, so that the election would be overturned. The idea that anyone would trust, for one minute, this guy running an honest election would be beyond comprehension. Not to mention that obviously he has not read the Constitution of the United States, which has states running elections, not the federal government.
COLLINS: I think every place he listed, those were states he lost in 2020.
SANDERS: What a shock. And no doubt that every state he won was perfectly honest, no problem Just the states that he lost.
Look, you got a guy who is a demagog, who is an authoritarian, and is moving this country in a very, very dangerous direction. His goals are pretty simple. He wants more and more power for himself, usurping the powers of Congress, the courts, the media, suing the media, universities, prosecuting his political opponents, threatening to throw them into jail.
And he wants more wealth for himself. That's his goal. And since he has been President, my understanding is, his family fortune has increased by $4 billion. His oligarch friends, billionaires, have made an additional trillion dollars. That's his world. More money for himself and his friends. More and more power for himself.
COLLINS: But when you hear what he said today, and how he defended it, after Republicans on the Hill tried to say he was talking about the SAVE Act that some Republicans are trying to get past. He didn't even mention that, when I asked him what exactly he was referencing.
Does it raise concerns for you, given, one, how Republicans, who have lauded states' rights for decades, how they did not respond to that in the Oval Office? They were standing behind him. And also, what it could mean for the midterms.
SANDERS: Well, two things. One, one of the scarier elements of Trumpism is the degree that where he has -- the degree that he has created a cult of the personality within the Republican Party. So, many people see him as the great leader, and they're afraid to defy him. And if they do, and they occasionally do, he or Mr. Musk, will say, We're going to spend zillions of dollars to destroy you in a primary, your political career is over.
So, I think we are beginning to see, I think, more Republicans having the courage to stand up to this authoritarianism. Because, the point you just made, I have heard on the floor of the Senate for years, Republicans say, We believe in small government. We hate big government. Get the government off of our backs.
And this guy is now telling every governor in America that he wants to run their election.
So, the hypocrisy is enormous, and I hope you have Republicans standing up and saying, Hey, we are conservatives. We believe in small government, not big government.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, none of the Republicans in that room today interjected to say they disagreed with it, in that moment.
But it does come as the White House says Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, has been tapped to oversee the security of American elections. That typically would not fall in that job description.
She's someone that you've called before, a courageous leader, a great friend. I don't know if you would describe her in that way--
SANDERS: That was way back when? That was a few years ago.
COLLINS: So you wouldn't describe her that way today?
What do you make though of them putting her in charge of that after she--
SANDERS: Look, I think they--
COLLINS: --was present in the raid in Atlanta?
SANDERS: I'm sorry. I think they understand that more and more Americans, and not just progressives, not just moderates, there are conservatives, who say, Hey, we don't want to see masked troops, federal agents, in Minneapolis, breaking down doors and shooting people. This is not what America is about.
And Trump is on the defensive. I think the polling is pretty clear. His numbers are going down. Everything being equal, I think the Democrats are going to regain control over the House, maybe the Senate. And what he is now figuring out is, how can he create a political situation where he won't lose in one way or another? And I think that is scary stuff, and we got to fight it every step of the way.
COLLINS: He was in the Oval Office today, signing the funding bill to keep the government open. It will basically leave two weeks to create a deal, or to leave time for a deal on funding for the Department of Homeland Security, ICE reforms or what Democrats who you caucus with are demanding. Do you think they're going to get to a deal in the next two weeks?
SANDERS: I surely hope so.
[21:25:00]
I think the overwhelming majority of the American people are shocked by what they are seeing. This is the United States of America. You've seen guys in masks, paid by federal tax dollars, knocking on doors, sending 5-year-old kids into detention centers, shooting several people, occupying an entire city, intimidating city.
In fact, there was a Republican candidate for governor in Minnesota who dropped out of the race, and he said, You know, I can't defend what the Republican National Party is doing.
Driving while Asian, driving while Latino, is not unconstitutional. So, the racism and the violence is extraordinary. And I think the American people are saying, Enough is enough.
COLLINS: Does it reassure you at all that they are sending body cameras to these federal agencies?
SANDERS: No, that's just -- that's a small -- you know, look, in my own view, and I brought forth an amendment, as you may know, the other day, as part of that legislation.
COLLINS: Yes, you wanted to repeal the $75 billion ICE funding.
SANDERS: Exactly, over a four-year period. I mean, they are now not Immigration and Customs Enforcement. They are a domestic -- Trump's domestic army, extraordinarily well-funded.
And I was pleased that every Democrat voted with me, and we had two Republicans, got 49 votes to say, Do away with that $75 billion over a four-year period for ICE, and put that money, by the way, into Medicaid, where the big, beautiful bill threw 15 million people off of Medicaid.
COLLINS: If that had gone through though, I mean, what would that have looked like for immigration enforcement?
SANDERS: They would have had the same money that they had before. They had more than enough money. They got $10 billion a year.
COLLINS: You questioned the Director of the NIH today. He was before your committee. There was a moment that really stood out, when you asked him a pretty simple question. And I want everyone to hear what he said to you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Let me ask you a simple question. Tell the American people. I appreciate your thoughts on measles. Do vaccines cause autism? Tell that to the American people. Yes? No?
DR. JAY BHATTACHARYA, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: I do not believe that the measles vaccine causes autism.
SANDERS: No. I didn't ask measles. Do vaccines cause autism?
BHATTACHARYA: For -- I have not seen a study that suggests any single vaccine causes autism.
SANDERS: OK. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What did you make of that answer?
SANDERS: Well, I appreciate his honesty. Vaccines do not cause autism. That's what the American Medical Association says. That's what every scientific study says. And unfortunately, we have a Secretary of Health and Human Services, Mr. Kennedy, who does not believe that, and that is a real tragedy. And we're looking at a measles epidemic right now. Many of the kids who are getting it are not vaccinated. And we got to turn that around.
COLLINS: Yes, it's really bad in South Carolina.
Can I also ask you what you thought of the President and how he responded to our questions today, about Jeffrey Epstein, and what the survivors have said about the release and it being insufficient in their eyes.
SANDERS: These survivors have gone through hell. Their lives have been traumatized to a horrible degree. And they need to -- all of the information that is possible should be coming out, for their sake, for the sake of the American people.
But I would tell you this, Kaitlan. I think the reason this Epstein business has gotten so much interest from conservatives, progressives, everybody else, is there an understanding, it really is quite extraordinary, above and beyond the ugly sexual stuff and all that stuff, above and beyond that, there is a growing sense that you have a small number of elite, of very, very rich people who hang out with each other, who really see themselves as above the law. Their world is not my world, it's not your world, it's not ordinary people's worlds. They live in a special world.
And I worry that that what you're seeing now, in our country today, is you got oligarchs, with credible money, they also live in a different world. And I think that is why the American people are responding so strongly. They go through a red light? They get stopped, they get fined. These guys do terrible things? That's OK. You're rich, and you're powerful.
COLLINS: Senator Bernie Sanders, always appreciate your time. Thank you for joining us here tonight.
And up next. Speaking of that. We heard from Melinda French Gates today, responding for the first time since those new files came out, files mentioning her ex-husband, Bill Gates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELINDA FRENCH GATES, PHILANTHROPIST: For me, it's just sadness -- sadness for -- you know, I've left -- I had to -- I left my marriage. I had to leave my marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: President Trump is arguing it's time for the country to move on from the Epstein files, despite his own campaign pledges to fully release them, and also declined to address the concerns that survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse are raising, following the latest release of files from the Justice Department.
Instead of responding to those concerns, the President instead lashed out when I asked him about it inside the Oval Office today, after he argued that the Epstein saga is a Democrat problem, not a Republican one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: On the Epstein files. You talked about Democrats who were in there. Elon Musk was also in there, and so was your Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, and correspondence that he had with him. Did you read those new files that were published by the Department of Justice?
TRUMP: No, I didn't. I have a lot of things I'm doing. A lot of things I'm doing. I don't know. You mentioned two names. I'm sure they're fine. I'm sure they're fine. Otherwise, it would have been major headlines.
[21:35:00]
COLLINS: A lot of women who were -- are survivors of Epstein's are unhappy with those redactions that came out. Some of them, entire witness interviews are totally blacked out. Do you think that they should be more transparent?
TRUMP: Well, they're also unhappy with the fact that they thought they released too much. You know, I heard that. And you're telling me something else. No. I think it's really time for the country to get onto something else, really.
And now that nothing came out about me, other than it was a conspiracy against me, literally, by Epstein and other people. But I think it's time now for the country to maybe get onto something else like health care, or something that people care about.
COLLINS: But what would you say to people who feel like they haven't gotten justice, Mr. President?
TRUMP: Yes, what did you say? Go ahead, CNN. You are so worse (ph), you know?
COLLINS: What would you say to the survivors who feel like they haven't gotten justice?
TRUMP: You are the worst reporter. No wonder C -- CNN has no ratings because of people like you. You know, she's a young woman. I don't think I've ever seen you smile. I've known you for 10 years. I don't think I've ever seen a smile on your face. You know why--
COLLINS: Well, I'm asking you about survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's, Mr. President.
TRUMP: --you know why you're not smiling? Because you know you're not telling the truth. And you're a very dishonest organization. And they should be ashamed of you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And joining me tonight is journalist, and CNN Contributor, Kara Swisher.
And Kara, I just wonder, beyond the attacks--
KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST, "ON WITH KARA SWISHER" & "PIVOT", CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. Wow.
COLLINS: --what you made of how he was just shrugging off the concerns that survivors have here? Not me. It's the survivors who have raised this.
SWISHER: Which is what you talked about, including possible survivors of Donald Trump, right? I mean, I think of all these people, in these files, which is really disturbing, I think you really got under his skin because of that. And so, he decided to take personal attacks on you, which were, whatever, you know, this -- it was just ridiculous.
But one of the things -- I think about what Governor Hochul from New York just put out on social media, which is, President Trump wants to turn the page, except he's on the next one and the next one.
And so, I think you're absolutely right to raise that question of what got released and what needs to be released. And now that we're halfway there, we should do the whole thing. And it's been -- you know, it's been an important thing to do in this country, given the web of power happening here, and the abuse of people by very wealthy and connected people.
COLLINS: Yes, it also kind of seemed to shed some light into his mindset of all of this, which is, I mean, he views things through the lens of how it affects him, obviously.
And he was saying that the only thing it -- the release proved was that there was a conspiracy against him, because Michael Wolff, the author, and Jeffrey Epstein, had been emailing about him.
I mean, obviously, that was not the takeaway most people had from what they read on Friday night.
SWISHER: No. No, of course not. But that's what he does, is a reality distortion field of his own making, and it's just not true.
People are interested in this, because it does show that elites have -- sort of aren't accountable, that they are not bound by the law in any way.
And so -- and again, where are the prosecutions here? Where are the -- what happens next? He seems entirely unconcerned about bringing justice for the victims, which you were asking about, quite correctly, and trying very hard to maintain -- I don't -- I couldn't have done what you did there, Kaitlan. I would have -- I just wouldn't have been able to.
COLLINS: I mean, we just -- we've had so many survivors here on the show. We've spoken to so many of them. They have been so--
SWISHER: Yes. COLLINS: --candid and honest about things that they don't want to talk about frankly, and relive.
SWISHER: No. No.
COLLINS: And, I mean, that's what I was keeping in mind.
But what I was struck today--
SWISHER: Of course.
COLLINS: --Melinda French Gates was asked about this, first time since the new release came out that includes talk of Bill Gates. She was asked about this email that Epstein had drafted in 2013, that suggests Bill Gates had extramarital affairs, and that he was worried about her and a sexually-transmitted disease.
I just want everyone to listen to what Melinda had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL MARTIN, HOST, WILD CARD, NPR: The emails in the files suggest that Bill Gates had additional affairs and that he tried to get medication to treat a sexually-transmitted infection, and that he was going to give you the medicine without you knowing.
His representative has said all of this is false.
It is not on you to have to respond to the details of that alleged behavior. But I wonder what your dominant emotion is when you read these news articles, with these details.
FRENCH GATES: Sad. Just unbelievable sadness.
Unbelievable sadness, right? And again, I'm able to take my own sadness and look at those young girls and say, my God, how did they -- how did that happen to those girls? Right?
And so for me, it's just sadness, sadness for -- you know, I've left -- I had to -- I left my marriage. I had to leave my marriage. I wanted to leave my marriage. I had to leave the -- I felt I needed to eventually leave the Foundation. So, it's just sad. That's the truth, right? And it's kind of like, oh, at least for me, I've been able to move on in life. And I hope there's some justice for those now women.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: What did you make of her response there?
SWISHER: Yes. You know, I know Melinda pretty well, and I've known her for a long, long time, since she was a product manager at Microsoft, before she married Gates. And she has to constantly be reacting to this. And she is sad. I interviewed her about this book. She wrote a book, where she talked about this. But she's constantly having to deal with these questions as more this stuff comes out.
And correctly, she focused on the victims, right? I mean, she herself, I mean this stuff that she has to do, she -- they have children together. The whole thing is incredibly difficult. And she has moved on.
But it's not up to her to answer. It's up to Bill Gates. It's up to Donald Trump. It's up to Howard Lutnick. All these people who are very clearly have not completely told the truth here.
And so, I think she handled it beautifully. And again, that she has to be constantly reminded of a really terrible situation in her marriage is it's, I feel bad for her. I feel sad for her too, and I -- and she's -- she's definitely moved on and has a better life. But this constantly gets raised for her, unfortunately.
COLLINS: Yes, I thought she showed a lot of empathy there, not focusing on herself, but focusing on--
SWISHER: She did.
COLLINS: --on these women.
And I should note that Bill Gates' spokesperson, said that the claims were from a disgruntled, proven liar.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: That they're absurd, that they're false. He's denying this.
But this comes as Republicans here are going to be questioning Bill and Hillary Clinton, in a deposition about Epstein, later this month. They've threatened to hold them in contempt if they didn't do it.
The Clintons say that they want that to be public.
Chairman Comer was asked by my colleague, Manu Raju, today, OK, if you want to talk to the Clintons, do you also want to speak to someone else who is mentioned in these files?
And this is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: President Trump's name is mentioned more than a thousand times in these documents. Why not try to get more information from him, try to get him to testify?
REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): Yes, well I've known -- well, I've noticed that every time you all do a gaggle like this with President Trump, somebody asks him about Epstein. So he's been answering questions about Epstein.
RAJU: Not -- not under oath.
COMER: Well, has Bill Clinton ever answered any questions on Epstein? Or Hillary Clinton?
RAJU: He's already done (ph).
COMER: So, this is going to be a new opportunity, and we'll go from there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I think some people might see that and say, Well, sure, the Clintons should testify about this, but also maybe should anyone who is in a position of power.
SWISHER: I think everybody should. I think it was about -- I did a recent interview with Ro Khanna, and he said the same thing, they should testify.
And they should testify, and is fully and -- fully and honestly, and so should President Trump. And of course, they're not going to drag him up there. They're doing his bidding. They're trying to create a spectacle.
What will be really interesting is what especially Hillary Clinton does here, because she could -- she could turn it back to Trump again. She's very deft at that, as you know, she got under his skin, another woman who got under his skin.
And so, it would be interesting to see what happens here, and if the Republicans perhaps have done something they may regret later, is my guess. And it being on camera will, again, turn the focus back to President Trump as -- and they -- and again, they should testify. There's absolutely no reason they shouldn't.
COLLINS: Yes.
Kara Swisher, as always, it's great to have you. Thank you for joining us tonight.
SWISHER: Thanks.
COLLINS: Up next. You're going to want to see this video. It is bodycam footage from the chaotic FBI raid that happened at that election office, in Fulton County, Georgia, last week.
And we'll get the take, what does the former Republican Lieutenant Governor of Georgia, who is currently running for governor there as a Democrat, what does he see in these videos?
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Police body camera footage shows that scene, as the FBI was searching and executing a search warrant at an elections warehouse in Fulton County, Georgia, last week.
And this video was obtained by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and it comes from an officer with the Fulton County Police Department, as he was trying to get information on the search that ultimately, as we now know, led to the FBI taking 700 boxes of election material tied to the 2020 election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, did anybody get a physical copy of the search warrant?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When did they get here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 12:30.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just unannounced?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unannounced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to try and have the names of everybody that was out here. I already know how it's going to go. But I mean, if they refuse, that's on them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The Director of National intelligence was there in Georgia for the operation, for different reasons that we've heard from different officials within the administration. She doesn't appear in that video.
But what we do see is the Fulton County Elections Director telling the officer that the FBI showed up with the wrong warrant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NADINE WILLIAMS, ELECTIONS CHIEF, FULTON COUNTY REGISTRATION & ELECTIONS, ATLANTA, GA: What's happening now is that their warrant is wrong. It had the wrong -- it's not in election's possession. It's in the clerk's possession. So it had the wrong department.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So on our end, nobody received a copy of--
WILLIAMS: They just they've -- we -- the attorneys asked them for it. They finally gave them a copy. Then it turns out it's wrong. So you, allegedly, you wait for the judge to update it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was wrong on there? It was--
WILLIAMS: It didn't say -- it just says, it says, elections, which we don't have it, which they knew that before they got here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The warrant will be amended slightly. But for all intents and purposes, what they had is what it's going to look like. We wanted to let her facilitate us moving through the building to unlock the gates, so that we don't have to breach it, because--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --one way or the other, the records are coming with us today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: My source tonight was the Republican Lieutenant Georgia in Governor --Georgia -- Lieutenant Governor in Georgia during the 2020 election, and the recounts that followed and confirmed the result of that election, despite what we hear often from the Oval Office. Geoff Duncan, I should note, is now running to be the Democratic nominee for governor in Georgia.
And thank you for being here.
Because I just I'm curious what you see from your experience, from your work, what you see when you watch that body camera footage?
GEOFF DUNCAN, FORMER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR OF GEORGIA, (D) CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR OF GEORGIA: Well, I see a very disorganized process. It was like they were unprepared for the moment. But I think it speaks to this administration's kind of operating style. They're more used to producing a reality TV show every day instead of a serious investigation.
And quite honestly, I think everybody sees through this for what it is. This has nothing to do with the 2020 election. This has to do with about sowing seeds of synthetic doubt, looking forward into the 2026 midterms. I think that's the scary part, not just for us Georgians, but for all Americans that are realizing that this thing is really under attack, and that this kind of grand plan to figure out how to put the MAGA thumb on the scales, is happening.
And we have to stand up. We've got to speak up. We've got to use the courts. We've got to use public opinion. We've got to be bold enough to speak out loud, even against a sitting president.
COLLINS: If you were the Lieutenant Governor when this had happened, what would your options have been, do you think?
DUNCAN: Well, I mean, he was doing it when we were -- when we were trying to -- the post 2020 election. I mean, I was trying to do everything I could possibly do, go to TV, go to radio, go to public formats, anything possible, to try to push back against this narrative. Because, this is not about truth. This is not about facts. This is about half-truths. This is about nuggets of information to just sow seeds of doubt and put it on social media. It's a Ponzi scheme of disinformation that plays out every minute of every day.
But I think the real problem to all of this is that, most Americans wake up worried about this affordability crisis and this health care crisis. Another day passes that Donald Trump, or the MAGA, or Republicans in general, have not focused a single ounce of energy on the affordability crisis or this health care crisis. Those are what really affecting folks every day when they wake up.
COLLINS: I mean, when you see though, the Director of National Intelligence who was present there. And I've even heard some criticism from people inside the administration over her presence there, or questions about -- you know, they weren't really sure why she was there.
And we've heard different explanations from different people in the administration. This was part of what we heard today, as to why she was present during this search.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Why was Tulsi Gabbard involved in a domestic law enforcement search in Georgia?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Tulsi Gabbard has been tapped by the President of the United States to oversee the sanctity and the security of our American elections. She's working directly alongside the FBI Director, Kash Patel. This is a coordinated, whole- of-government effort to ensure that our elections, again, are fair and transparent moving forward. I don't see anything wrong with the President tasking a Cabinet member to pursue an issue that most people want to see solved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You're somebody who might be on the ballot in November. I wonder what you make of them saying that Director Gabbard is overseeing election security now.
DUNCAN: I doubt -- I doubt she even knew why she was down there, right? This is just all just a big game that they're playing. Who knows, out of a staff meeting, somebody came up with a wild idea to put her on a plane and fly her down there, just to sow some weird seeds of doubt, so somebody could send a tweet out. These are not serious people. But the problem is, they're playing with serious problems.
I think, as I'm running for governor, here in Georgia, as a Democrat. It's interesting, we put out information today, we've gotten over a 11,000 contributions from all 50 states. Because I think not only Georgians are worried about what's going on here, but the rest of the country is worried about it. If the framework of a fair and balanced and legal election is not in place, what can we expect as Americans, you know?
It's troubling to watch this thing called democracy just fade away, because Donald Trump wants to be so egotistical and self-centered as he continues to be.
COLLINS: Geoff Duncan, thank you for joining us tonight.
DUNCAN: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. We have a bit of Olympic news. The skier Lindsey Vonn says, despite tearing her ACL in that nasty crash just a couple of days ago before the Winter Games start, whether or not she is actually going to still try to go for gold.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Just four days after crashing in a race that tore her ACL, Lindsey Vonn says that she is confident she can still compete at the Winter Olympics that start this Friday. The American skiing star hurt her left knee, after she crashed in Friday's World Cup, going downhill. She ended up in the safety nets and had to be airlifted, as is the protocol, away from the finish area.
And today, we heard from the 41-year-old, three-time Olympian, who said she completely ruptured her ACL, obviously the key ligament in her knee that connects the thigh to her shin. But she says this is not going to stop her from making a comeback.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSEY VONN, AMERICAN SKIER: Considering how my knee feels, it feels stable. I feel strong. My knee is not swollen, and with the help of a knee brace, I am confident that I can compete on Sunday.
I know what my chances were before the crash. And I know my chances aren't the same, as it stands today. But I know there's still a chance. And as long as there's a chance, I will try.
If you look at everything I've been through in my life, in my skiing career, in my life in general, you know, I've been through a lot, and this is -- this is another amazing chapter. I don't know if it's the best chapter, but it's pretty damn good comeback, if I can pull it off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And it would be just the latest in many of her comebacks. She actually returned last season after nearly six years away from the sport, despite having her knee partially replaced. And her first scheduled race in the women's downhill is going to be this Sunday, and we are all rooting for her.
Thanks so much for joining us here tonight on THE SOURCE. We really appreciate it. We'll see you back tomorrow night.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
[22:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST, CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP: Tonight. As the President tries to nationalize elections based on conspiracies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: A state is an agent for the federal government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
