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The Source with Kaitlan Collins

Savannah Guthrie Responds To Ransom Note Reports: "We Want To Hear From You And We Are Ready To Listen"; Trump Says Admin. Could Use "A Softer Touch" On Immigration; Jeff Bezos-Owned Washington Post Guts A Third Of Its Staff. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired February 04, 2026 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --Andy, final thoughts? Just at a moment like this, four days out, with a message like that from Savannah and her family. Very briefly.

ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, I think that, particularly that last clip that you showed indicates they are really pushing for proof of life.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCCABE: Whether that's going to come from the ransom letters we know they've received through the media, or making that appeal to whoever hasn't spoken, who hasn't reached out to them yet to please--

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCCABE: --to make that contact.

SCIUTTO: Well, we can only hope and pray for Savannah and her family, and for Nancy Guthrie's safe return.

Thanks to all of you.

Our coverage will, of course, continue. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: And we do begin with breaking news tonight, here on THE SOURCE, amid a notable increase of police activity at the home of Nancy Guthrie, the missing mom of TODAY show host, Savannah Guthrie.

Savannah and her siblings are now speaking publicly for the first time since their mom was taken from her Tucson home. In an emotional and raw video, they issued this urgent plea. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, CO-ANCHOR OF NBC NEWS' TODAY, NBC NEWS CHIEF LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: On behalf of our family, we want to thank all of you for the prayers for our beloved mom, Nancy. We feel them, and we continue to believe that she feels them, too.

Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal, fiercely loving woman of goodness and light. She's funny, spunky and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun and adventure. She is a devoted friend. She is full of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her, and you'll see.

ANNIE GUTHRIE, SAVANNAH GUTHRIE'S SISTER: The light is missing from our lives. Nancy is our mother. We are her children. She is our beacon. She holds fast to joy in all of life's circumstances. She chooses joy day after day, despite having already passed through great trials of pain and grief. We are always going to be merely human, just normal human people who need our mom.

Mama, mama, if you're listening, we need you to come home. We miss you.

S. GUTHRIE: Our mom is our heart and our home. She's 84-years-old. Her health, her heart, is fragile. She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine. She needs it to survive. And she needs it not to suffer.

We, too, have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media. As a family, we are doing everything that we can. We are ready to talk. However, we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need to know, without a doubt, that she's alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you and we are ready to listen. Please reach out to us.

Mommy, if you are hearing this, you are a strong woman. You are God's precious daughter, Nancy. We believe and know that even in this valley, He is with you. Everyone is looking for you, mommy, everywhere. We will not rest. Your children will not rest until we are together again. We speak to you every moment and we pray without ceasing and we rejoice in advance for the day that we hold you in our arms again. We love you, mom.

A. GUTHRIE: We love you, mom.

CAMRON GUTHRIE, SAVANNAH GUTHRIE'S BROTHER: We love you, mom. Stay strong.

A. GUTHRIE: We love you. We love you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[21:05:00]

COLLINS: Frankly, that video is hard to watch, as they are asking for proof that their mom is still alive. It is gutting to see that plea from Savannah Guthrie and her siblings, as they are asking for outreach from whoever it is that took her.

We're going to talk to our experts about what stood out to them in that video, in a moment, as they're making that plea.

And I should note, this video is being published, as we are seeing a ramped-up police presence at the home of Nancy Guthrie tonight. We've seen federal agents, dogs, at the Arizona home where she was last seen on Saturday evening.

It's a home that was cordoned off with yellow police tape earlier, which was then subsequently removed by the officials who were there on the ground. And law enforcement could be seen carrying evidence bags into the house, and they appeared to bring some of them back outside into a vehicle, a short time later. Now, this activity comes just hours after we heard from local officials, saying that they had turned the home back over to the Guthrie family.

You heard Savannah, in that video, referencing the reported ransom notes that we've all heard about by now. Today, police said, they are not dismissing those possible unverified ransom letters that are connected to the 84-year-old's disappearance, but they haven't confirmed the authenticity of them yet, either.

There's at least three media outlets that have gotten these letters, including TMZ, two CNN affiliates out in Tucson. They say that they demand millions of dollars in Bitcoin for her safe return.

And I should note, as this investigation is very much still underway tonight, we just heard from the President a few moments ago. He said he spoke to Savannah Guthrie directly and, quote, "Let her know that I am directing ALL Federal Law Enforcement to be at the family's, and Local Law Enforcement's, complete disposal, IMMEDIATELY. We are deploying all resources to get her mother home safely. The prayers of our Nation are with her and her family. GOD BLESS AND PROTECT NANCY."

My lead source tonight is CNN's Senior National Correspondent, Ed Lavandera, who's on the ground outside of Nancy Guthrie's home.

And Ed, we'll talk about this video in a moment with our experts, what they heard in that, from Savannah and her siblings.

But in terms of this ramped-up police activity, what have you been seeing that stands out and is different from what it looked like even earlier today?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, the magnitude of what has unfolded here, in just the last few hours, is just stunning.

As Savannah Guthrie and her siblings released that video. Agents, investigators of about at least a dozen or so of them, which included Sheriff's deputies here in Pima County and Tucson, as well as federal agents, spent nearly two hours back here at Nancy Guthrie's home.

They arrived, this afternoon, and quickly cordoned off the entrance into the property with crime scene tape. They would not talk about what they were doing. But we saw the investigators spending a great deal of time in the backyard, and then moving, getting into the house, through the -- through the garage as well.

And at one point, later on, we also saw that they were carrying out -- at least one time, we saw that they were carrying out several bags and brown bags of evidence from the scene as well. They were small, like, small enough bags, where like some one person could carry them. We have no idea what is inside those bags, really at this moment.

But this is significant, because since investigators first came out to this neighborhood, on Sunday afternoon, when Nancy Guthrie was first reported missing, they went through and essentially had turned over, they had told us that they had finished their work here at the home.

And now, yesterday afternoon, we saw Sheriff's helicopter flying low throughout the neighborhood, making several passes over Nancy Guthrie's home, as well as the surrounding area.

And then, again tonight, we see this ramped-up activity.

So, clearly some sort of effort to come back here and either retrace some of the investigative work that was done initially, or redo it, or perhaps they were checking out other information, or looking for other evidence based on evidence that has been -- information that has come forward since Sunday. But that process and that investigation here lasted about almost two hours here, this afternoon.

And as far as the ransom news that has been -- we've been talking about for several days now. What we continue to hear from investigators here publicly, and I think you alluded to this, is that at this point, we just don't know if these -- if these notes and these ransom requests are legitimate. They have no idea.

And if you listen to what Savannah Guthrie talked about, in that video, and she talks about that, we live in an age where this kind of information can be manipulated. It really kind of speaks to, I think, the efforts to establish, or try to figure out, if these indeed are legitimate claims. Because, at this point, we've gotten to the realization that there's very little information that investigators have--

COLLINS: Yes.

LAVANDERA: --at this point that will be able to drive them to get to Nancy Guthrie's whereabouts.

COLLINS: Yes.

And shame on anyone who is sending any manipulated or fake ransom notes in this case.

[21:10:00]

Ed Lavandera, thank you for being there. We'll check back in with you. Tell us if you see anything else as you're there reporting outside the home of Nancy Guthrie. I've also got a full team of experts here with me, including:

CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller.

Our Chief Media Analyst, Brian Stelter.

And our CNN Legal Analyst, Joey Jackson.

And John Miller, that video is devastating to watch and to just hear, I mean, from a clearly and understandably devastated family who just wants their mom back. But I wonder, John, when you look at it from a law enforcement perspective, and you hear what they were saying in that video, what it tells you about where this investigation stands.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it tells us a few things.

Number one, it tells us they put enough credibility in those ransom notes that were sent to the media, and we have to assume that they came from encrypted emails that can't be traced, the kind that will pop up one day and disappear the next, that don't come back to anything.

What they're trying to do there is talk about their mother as a human being, someone who loves and is loved and is cared about. They even say to whoever has her, Talk to her, you'll find this about her. They want that empathy to start building between the captors, wherever they are, and their mom.

But they also want to make this a two-way conversation. Not an email that goes to three news outlets, saying, Send this much ransom to this Bitcoin account, or crypto account. But a conversation where they can talk to them. Because, what they need to know is, Are you real? Are you who you say you are? Do you have her for real? And she says, We are ready to talk. We need to know she is alive and that you have her. Reach out to us. They need to take this one-way conversation and turn it into a two-way conversation for this to move forward.

COLLINS: How do they verify that, John Miller? I mean, in this day and age of A.I. and of things being so easily manipulated, how do they make sure it's real?

MILLER: Well, there's a couple of ways. I mean, ultimately, what you'd like is to have a conversation with her on the phone, a two-way conversation, where you say things and she says things back. That's going to be a challenge to the kidnappers, because these things are theoretically traceable.

Where you go from there is, can you give controlled questions, where you ask questions to be put to her that only she would know. Who was your dog in the fourth grade? What entree did you order at dinner, or did you have at dinner, at your sister's house the night before you were taken? Those kinds of things that wouldn't be out there in public, to at least indicate they have her. But they still need something to show she's alive.

COLLINS: Yes.

And Brian, I know you were reporting, the Guthrie family is still hopeful. I know you have new reporting tonight. What have you been hearing about not only what made them finally speak publicly--

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Yes.

COLLINS: --and why they felt that this step was necessary tonight. What else are you hearing?

STELTER: There's certainly a change of posture today.

I can report that Savannah Guthrie and her siblings spent much of the afternoon with federal investigators, with FBI agents, as they prepared to record this video.

And of course, before taping something like this, there could be some coaching involved, some conversations about how to say, what to say. Obviously, every single word matters, and so does the body language and all the rest.

There really was a change in posture today, with the Feds becoming more involved alongside the local law enforcement officials, the Sheriff who we have been seeing on camera for several days.

And of course, President Trump, has directly said, he wants everybody involved. He wants all the federal government resources to be marshaled.

But it is notable, this afternoon, Savannah and her siblings were there with those federal agents, talking through this process.

You put yourself in Savannah's shoes, Annie's shoes, Camron's shoes, knowing that you're recording a video for the person or people who have turned your lives upside down. And you know that all across social media, there have been conspiracy theories, there have been amateur investigators coming up with their own ideas about what happened, sometimes smearing potentially innocent people.

So, here we are now with a total change, because we're hearing from the siblings in their own words.

COLLINS: Yes.

Joey Jackson, as you're looking at this, and the timing of this video, what stands out to you?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, a number of things do.

First of all, they rely, this family, upon their faith, and you hear it in their words, in their expectation, in terms of praying without ceasing and knowing that she'll be returned.

I think, number two, they're reassuring their mother that they will leave no stone unturned until she's back in their arms. And that's really important for her to get those reassurances in the event she's hearing it and she's there.

Number three, the engagement, with regard to saying, Hey, listen. Trying to engage with whatever party or parties may have her.

[21:15:00]

And so, ultimately, one of the things I think we all need to be heartened about, and Brian spoke to this, the federal resources on this. We are, without question, in the world, the best law enforcement agencies, in terms of forensic analysis and everything else. You saw the FBI at that home, you saw investigators digging through everything.

In the event, Kaitlan, that she was abducted from their home -- that home, there has to be clues, notwithstanding whatever measures or protections were taken by parties. You have skin cell evidence, you've got hair fibers, you've got all kind of things that could match whoever was there. You've got the blood, as we know. And so, I think those are very critical. And once they start matching that to the why.

Why? Who would be motivated to do this? Was it animus? Was it wickedness? Was it jealousy? Was it envy? Was it money? Once they start matching that, and then they get to the opportunity, in terms of who specifically would have the ability to get there, to do this, to case this out, I think you start building it.

And so, I think, based upon the law enforcement presence, we could be heartened by it. But obviously, there are practical realities here too, giving her -- given her state of affairs in terms of her health, and the timeframe that had gone by.

COLLINS: Yes.

And John, in that video, when they say, We need to know, without a doubt, that she's alive. And Savannah said, Please reach out to us. I mean, what does that tell you about what they've seen so far, in terms of, you know, in these ransom notes that we don't even know if they're authentic or not, whether or not they even know how to get in touch with whoever these people potentially are.

MILLER: Well, I think the kidnappers designed this as a one-way conversation, which is, Here are things that are -- that are not publicly reported about the crime scene that we're going to cite in this note. That's our credibility. Here's where to send the money.

I think that they're going to need a little more than that to make sure that these are the right people, that these are the real people.

And I take, what Brian says, which is, you know, the FBI has become more involved in this because it is more clearly an abduction and a kidnapping for ransom. But I don't think that we want to suggest that by consulting on this or kind of telling them what not to say, that we need to doubt the sincerity of that message for one bit.

As you said, it's heart-wrenching. You know her. I know her. Brian knows her. This is about the worst thing anybody could go through. And I believe every word that they said in that video is true and from the heart.

COLLINS: Yes.

STELTER: And I have -- to add to that, John. My sense is that when she first disappeared, when this first became of it, on Sunday, the third -- the first thoughts among the siblings were not about a kidnapping or a ransom note or a hostage situation.

The first thought was, their 84-year-old mom must have gotten hurt at home and gone to the hospital, and that someone called 911, and she's at the hospital, and they started searching the local hospitals.

This was not in the first moments, I'm told, the thought about a kidnapping. And so, now here we are, four days later, we see how dramatically it's changed. But at first, this was as so many people have experienced, the idea that, Oh, there's an elderly woman who is hurt, she must be at the hospital. And then, now we're at this point.

COLLINS: It's stomach-turning, frankly.

STELTER: Yes.

COLLINS: John Miller. Brian Stelter. And Joey Jackson. I'm grateful to have all of you here tonight.

And I just want to note. As you watch that video, and your heart is broken like ours is. Officials want anyone who has any information about Nancy Guthrie or her disappearance to call the Pima County Sheriff's Office. You can do so at 520-351-4900.

And we're all keeping the heartbroken Guthrie family in our prayers. We're going to continue following this story throughout the hour tonight in this search. We'll bring you those latest updates.

And also here tonight on THE SOURCE. We've seen the administration tonight announcing a new change when it comes to immigration enforcement in Minneapolis. What will it mean about what's happening on the ground. As President Trump said this tonight about the killing of those two Americans at the hands of federal agents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM LLAMAS, ANCHOR, "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS WITH TOM LLAMAS": You mentioned Renee Good and Alex Pretti not being angels. Do you think any of that justified what happened to them, though?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No. I don't. I -- it should've not happened. It was a very sad -- to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[21:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: President Trump's Border Czar, Tom Homan, remains on the ground in Minneapolis. And today, he announced plans to pull 700 federal agents out of Minnesota. A move that the President explained tonight during an interview with NBC News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLAMAS: 700 officers leaving Minneapolis. Did that come from you?

TRUMP: Yes, it did. But it didn't come from me because I just wanted to do it. We have -- we are waiting for them to release prisoners, give us the murderers that they're holding and all of the bad people, drug dealers, all of the bad people.

LLAMAS: Mr. President, speaking of Minneapolis, what did you learn?

TRUMP: I learned that maybe we could use a little bit of a softer touch. But you still have to be tough. These are criminal -- we're dealing with really hard criminals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Now, Tom Homan said today that that removal of those 700 agents still leaves around 2,000 federal officers on the ground in Minneapolis. And just to put that in perspective for you, it's more than twice the number of local police officers that are there.

The President was also asked today about the two Americans who were killed by federal agents in Minneapolis. And here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLAMAS: You mentioned Renee Good and Alex Pretti not being angels. Do you think any of that justified what happened to them, though?

[21:25:00]

TRUMP: No. I don't. I -- it should've not happened. It was a very sad -- to me it was a very sad incident, two incidents. And, you know, they mention the one now. They don't mention the other. Well, I think they were both sad. And you know who feels worse about it than anybody? The people of ICE.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: My source tonight sits on the Senate Homeland Security Committee. Democratic senator of Connecticut, Richard Blumenthal.

And thank you, Senator, for being here.

When the President says he plans to use a softer touch in Minneapolis. Does that reassure you at all?

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): No, not in the least, because what we're hearing from Homan, from Kristi Noem, from the entire leadership of that agency, is continued character assassination, not only against the people of Minneapolis, but against those two victims, Alex Pretti, Renee Good. And in fact, Renee Good's brothers were in front of a forum that I held just yesterday. Powerful, moving testimony about their loss. And then, three others who were talking about the brutality, the violence, attempts to kill them, bullets fired into their car, one of them so seriously injured she nearly bled to death.

These kinds of killings and brutality are ongoing in Minneapolis and all across the country. We are all Minneapolis now. And this reassurance about a softer touch, when they're continuing to call these people, domestic terrorists, that they're criminals? They are not criminals. None of these individuals had any criminal history. And they were doing what you and I do every day. Going to pick up their kids, going to their church to make a clothing donation, and everyday activities that put them in jeopardy.

COLLINS: Yes.

And to be clear on the numbers. 700 sounds like a lot that they're pulling out. But 2,000 people are still on the ground. And Tom Homan even acknowledged today, normally that would be about a 150. And so -- I mean, it just still speaks to how many people are there.

But in terms of -- you mentioned Alex Pretti and Renee Good. Vice President JD Vance did an interview with the Daily Mail today, and he was asked if he believes he owes an apology to the family of Alex Pretti for what he said and his repost after his death. And this is what the Vice President said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP NIETO, U.S. POLITICAL REPORTER, DAILY MAIL: Do you plan to apologize to the family of Alex Pretti?

JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: For what?

NIETO: For, you know, labeling him an assassin with ill intent.

VANCE: Well, again, I just described to you what I said about Alex Pretti, which is that he's a guy who showed up with ill intent to an ICE protest.

NIETO: No, but if it is determined--

VANCE: He's a guy--

NIETO: If it's determined that his civil rights were violated, by this FBI investigation, will you apologize to that family?

VANCE: So, if this hypothetical leads to that hypothetical leads to another hypothetical, will I do a thing?

NIETO: I mean, it's a real case that's open.

VANCE: And again, like I said, we're going to let the investigation determine, we're going to let the actual law come to the surface and figure out what happened. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: What did you make of that reaction there?

BLUMENTHAL: Unconscionable. Absolutely unconscionable.

Alex Pretti was shot in the back after he had been disarmed. Renee Good was shot in the head as she tried to drive away from those agents. The video tells you all you need to know.

And for anybody who has watched those videos, or heard the testimony yesterday, or seen some of these stories, if they have a conscience? They would not only apologize, they'd advocate criminal prosecution for those agents, and they would support legislation that I've tried to advance, that gives people redress and recourse in the courts against federal agents.

COLLINS: And when you say disarmed, I mean, it's not like he was holding the gun up. It was still holstered in that moment.

I want to ask you about something else, though, that we heard from the President's Cabinet today. The Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, has said that when she was present in Atlanta, when they were executing that search warrant, taking the ballots from the 2020 election? As Trump has claimed there was fraud, yet no proof. She said she was on the site, which typically she -- someone in that position would not be. Because, in a letter to lawmakers, she said, her presence was requested by the President and the White House press secretary.

But that is not what the President just said in this interview tonight. This is instead what the President told NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLAMAS: Why is Tulsi Gabbard there?

TRUMP: I don't know but, you know -- a lot of the cheating comes from -- it's -- it's international cheating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Questions, since the President doesn't say there that he did direct her, like she told lawmakers?

BLUMENTHAL: A lot of us are aghast at the absolute incompetence of his explanation, her being there, and there being no responsibility that justifies her going to Georgia and interfering with elections there.

[21:30:00]

Not the slightest, not a scintilla of evidence that there is any foreign interference. That's her lane. And either, she was there on a publicity stunt, try to get back in the good graces of the President, or she was doing some kind of free agency, where she was just interfering on her own. And I think that it bears investigation. I hope the bipartisan investigation that we have begun, with respect to Minneapolis, through the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, should also include her involvement in Fulton County, Georgia. She had no business being there, unless the President directed her. And apparently, he didn't.

COLLINS: Yes.

Senator Richard Blumenthal, thank you for joining us tonight. Really appreciate your time.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

COLLINS: We also have more news ahead on the breaking news this hour in the search for Nancy Guthrie that is underway, and those big changes that we're seeing happening tonight, not only hearing from Savannah Guthrie directly, but also what is happening behind the scenes with law enforcement, amid the new activity outside of her home. Our top FBI source will join us.

[21:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

A. GUTHRIE: Mama, if you're listening, we need you to come home. We miss you.

S. GUTHRIE: Our mom is our heart and our home. She's 84-years-old. Her health, her heart, is fragile. She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine. She needs it to survive. And she needs it not to suffer.

We, too, have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media. As a family, we are doing everything that we can. We are ready to talk. However, we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need to know, without a doubt, that she's alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you and we are ready to listen. Please reach out to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: That is the heartbreaking plea that came directly from the TODAY show host, Savannah Guthrie, calling for her 84-year-old mom, Nancy, to be safely returned back home.

Police say she was taken against her will, in the middle of the night, this weekend, and there are now reports of possible ransom notes, as you heard Savannah reference there.

Our Senior National Correspondent, Ed Lavandera, has been reporting outside Nancy Guthrie's home, and joins me now.

And Ed, I know there was about two hours of police activity that happened tonight at the home. That stood out, because obviously you were at that press conference where the Sheriff said the other day, they were done and had assessed the home. What else have you seen tonight?

LAVANDERA: Well, they wrapped up their work here just before the sun went down and those agents leaving the scene. I can tell you what we saw. We saw about a dozen or so, a mixture of Sheriff's deputies as well as federal agents. They did not talk about what they were looking for or anything like that.

We saw them really spend the bulk of their time in the backyard. At one point, there was a canine unit that was brought in early on as well. And then we saw the agents and investigators going through the garage into the home as well. At one point, as they were wrapping up, we did see one of the investigators bringing out several bags of what we presume is evidence, but we do not know what was in them.

And all of this really was wrapping up, Kaitlan, the stunning part of all this, as Savannah Guthrie and her sister and brother were posting the video that we have just watched. So, all of this unfolding here within these late afternoon hours, and just kind of a stunning juxtaposition as the investigative work here was coming back.

And the work here seemed significant here, this afternoon, because, as you mentioned, investigators had said that they had completed their work, here at their home. We really haven't seen any kind of police activity to this level, since Sunday afternoon, when this disappearance first happened. So, significant developments here this evening, to say the least.

COLLINS: Yes.

Ed, thanks for keeping us updated. I really appreciate that.

Also joining me tonight is the former Deputy Director of the FBI, now CNN's Senior Law Enforcement Analyst, Andrew McCabe.

And when you see that video. I mean, obviously it's heartbreaking. But also, there's questions of, what did investigators say about that? Did they encourage them putting that video out and making this plea and trying to speak to directly to whoever it is that has taken Nancy Guthrie.

MCCABE: I would expect very confidently that that video was pulled together with the family by the investigative team. There are folks with a lot of experience in crafting these sorts of communications, and doing so in a way to accomplish a few different things.

First, of course, they want the family to be able to project some love and confidence to their -- to their mother.

[21:40:00]

Secondly, they want to try to -- they're constantly trying to humanize the victim, to the kidnappers. You want the kidnappers to think of her, not as a target or someone they can ransom, but someone who is a mother, who is loved by her family, who is -- who desperately wants her back. You see that in the language of the statement. They say things like, She's a strong person who brings joy into the world, just ask her. They're actually trying to push the kidnappers to interact with their mother in a human way.

And finally, they are basically asking for proof of life. And that is the way that you vet ransom demands. So, these ransom demands that have been received so far, there is a process that you go through, to try to figure out if they're authentic.

COLLINS: What does that process look like? So if you're at the FBI, and you get this, this note that was sent to TMZ and two local media outlets, what do they immediately start doing with that, in the age of 2026, and A.I.--

MCCABE: Sure.

COLLINS: --and so much manipulation--

MCCABE: Sure.

COLLINS: --where you have no clue if it's real.

MCCABE: So, you immediately start looking at the language. If the language refers to things that you know to be false. For instance, if they are referring to like elements of the crime scene that you know are inaccurate? Then you can discount those letters, they're not -- they're not the real thing.

You, of course, are trying to figure out their provenance. Where did they come from? Can we trace the email accounts back? Does the kind of the metadata behind the communication tell us anything?

But ultimately, a ransom demand is not taken as legitimate, does not open up negotiations, until the person that sends the demand presents proof of life. The investigators and the family would never be encouraged to actually pay a ransom until they had received proof of life. So, that's kind of the threshold that you've got to get over to be considered the actual kidnapper.

COLLINS: Can we talk about the -- she has a pacemaker, Nancy does. And what we're told by a source is that it last sent a signal to her iPhone around 02:00 a.m. on Sunday. She was last seen by her family around 09:45 p.m. that night. They reported her missing at noon the next day.

As Brian was saying, initially, they didn't think, Oh, my mom has been abducted. They thought, Oh, she's in the hospital. They were -- they spent time calling the local hospitals.

How do officials use the ping of this pacemaker and her phone to try to narrow that window down?

MCCABE: Yes. So, there's some things about that, that we don't know. But let's look at what we do know.

We do know that at 2 o'clock in the morning, when that communication took place, from the pacemaker to her phone and her watch, she was there in the house, right? Because those devices, the phone and the watch, were still there. So, should the pacemaker was able to connect, that means she was there at least at 02:00 a.m.

What we don't know is how often that pacemaker makes that communication. So, if this is just a once-a-day thing, then it only tells us she was there at that time. If it's something that happens--

COLLINS: Every two hours--

MCCABE: --every two hours, every hour? Then it gives us a little bit more of an idea of when she was actually taken away.

It might also transmit data that tells you what was happening with her heart in that moment. So, it might be a communication that was made because the pacemaker sensed, like an alarm on a certain heart condition. If her heart rate was elevated, if she was in some sort of a struggle? That might have caused a transmission.

COLLINS: Yes.

MCCABE: So, there's a lot left to be learned there.

COLLINS: Yes, well, hopefully it can be helpful information for them.

MCCABE: Sure.

COLLINS: Andrew McCabe, thank you for joining us tonight.

MCCABE: Yes, thanks.

COLLINS: And we'll continue to follow that story with any new reporting we get.

And also here tonight in Washington. The Washington Post newsroom has been gutted, dealing a huge blow to that storied paper. The legendary former Executive Editor, Marty Baron, is here to weigh in tonight on that, and his thoughts on Jeff Bezos.

[21:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: From the Pentagon Papers, to Watergate, to the Access Hollywood tape, all of those were stories broken by intrepid reporters at The Washington Post, an outlet that has been defined in recent years by its slogan, Democracy Dies in Darkness. Though, it has 150 years of journalism, here in the U.S. capital, that speaks for itself.

And with that history in mind, here's what happened today, just to put it bluntly, a third of the workforce at The Washington Post was laid off today. Some of those reporters were covering a war when they found out. That includes Lizzie Johnson. She's a correspondent on the ground in Ukraine who posted, I was just laid off by The Washington Post in the middle of a warzone. The owner of The Post, of course, is Jeff Bezos, whose net worth is about $260 billion. He's yet to comment on the cuts, as we've seen so far. But Bezos had urged the management team, at The Washington Post, to return the publication to profitability.

As for the President and his thoughts on The Post, he has not exactly been shy about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Washington Post is the enemy of the people.

Washington Post is the enemy of the people.

I think The Washington Post is a Russian asset.

I think The Washington Post covers us very inaccurately.

Almost everything The Washington Post does is fake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Something that many people have noted in the wake of these cuts is how Jeff Bezos' businesses are regulated by the federal government, the other businesses that he owns.

One year ago, he had a prime time seat -- or a prime seat at the inauguration. He has since donated to the President's ballroom project, here in Washington. This week, we saw he hosted the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, at a Blue Origin rocket factory. And Amazon also dropped $75 million on that new documentary about the first lady.

[21:50:00]

My next source tonight is the legendary former Post Executive Editor, Marty Baron.

And it's great to have you here, because I think you were the first person I thought of today.

Just in terms of -- we've seen the fallout from these cuts, and so many reporters saying, Yes, I got that call today saying that my job no longer exists. And I'm sure you've heard from a lot of them. I wonder what you thought and what you saw today.

MARTY BARON, FORMER EXECUTIVE EDITOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I think it's devastating. I think it signals that the ambitions of The Post are severely diminished. There will be fewer people to report on all the important things happening around the world, in this country, and in the Washington Metro area. So, I think it's absolutely devastating, and it just gives readers fewer reasons to read The Washington Post. And I'm very concerned about that.

COLLINS: I think that one point that I've seen some people make is, Well, news is changing, businesses have to adapt to that. As someone who has been in this position of dealing with the budget and finances, I wonder how you view that rationale of what we saw happen, this gutting of The Post today.

BARON: Well, look, I mean, the media environment is brutal these days. There's no question about it.

The way that people consume the news has changed dramatically. And therefore, the way that we have to deliver the news changes -- has to change dramatically, and news organizations have to innovate and adapt to that, and embrace the new ways that people want to get information. I mean, look, I mean, The Washington Post has been doing that.

I mean, in 2015, Fast Company magazine named The Washington Post, the Most Innovative Media Company in the World. In 2018, Fast Company magazine did the same. In fact, it called The Washington Post, the eighth most innovative company in the entire world, not just a media company, the eighth most innovative company in the entire world.

So, The Washington Post has a history of innovating in recent years, certainly under the ownership of Jeff Bezos, and I think it's fully capable of continuing to do that. It needs to do that.

But what we're seeing here, although they've called it a reset, it looks like more like a retreat. A retreat from what The Post has long aspired to be, and that is to be an incredible source of information for Americans, and for people throughout the world, about what's happening around the world.

COLLINS: You mentioned Jeff Bezos.

In 2013, when he bought The Post, he cited the saying, Follow the story, no matter the cost. I remember in 2016 -- 2017, he was talking about high-quality journalism, how expensive it is to produce, but basically making the argument that it's worth it.

And obviously, you interacted with him, when you were there, running The Post. I wonder what you think of how he's -- how he's handled this so far.

BARON: Well, look, I was pleased with his ownership when I was there. He invested in The Post. He advocated for The Post. He defended The Post against brutal attacks by Donald Trump. He resisted pressure from Donald Trump to his -- Trump's efforts to disrupt his businesses, Amazon, and then Blue Origin. So, I was pleased with that.

But something has changed. I mean, I think he got distracted in 2019 and 2020, particularly with the pandemic. And then, in 2024, something dramatically changed, and that was the return of Donald Trump to the White House, or the anticipated return of Trump to the White House, and when The Post decided not to run an editorial -- to kill an editorial, of endorsing Kamala Harris.

And so, thousands -- hundreds of thousands of readers, hundreds of thousands of subscribers, abandoned The Post. And then they were concerned about other things that Bezos did, all of which suggested that he was bending the knee to Donald Trump.

And, look, this is a paper that has been known as an independent newspaper. It says -- it declares itself to be an independent newspaper. And yet, Jeff Bezos was at the inauguration with Donald Trump right there on the stage.

Amazon bought the so-called documentary of Melania Trump for an exorbitant fee, and paid even a more ridiculous amount to promote it and distribute it. Amazon acquired the rights to "The Apprentice." That's putting money, essentially, directly into the pocket of Donald Trump.

And then they changed the entire editorial page to dramatically, to exclude, and the opinion pages, to exclude any commentary that was left of center, even a little bit left of center.

So, all of that turned readers off, turned subscribers off, and essentially drove their readers and subscribers away.

COLLINS: Marty Baron, thank you for joining us tonight. I know your voice is so important to so many people at The Post who are there now and used to work there. So, I really appreciate your time.

BARON: Thank you.

COLLINS: Up next. The President has called a 2028 Vance-Rubio ticket, unbeatable. But he left out one key detail.

[21:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is weighing in on what a potential 2028 ticket could look like, making clear he thinks the Vice President, JD Vance, and his Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, would be a tough duo to beat.

But when it comes to exactly who should be at the top of that ticket, which is pretty key, the President gave this answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I have two people that are doing a great job. I don't want to have an argument with or a f -- I -- I don't want to use the word fight, it wouldn't be a fight. But look, JD is fantastic and Marco is fantastic.

LLAMAS: How are they different--

TRUMP: They're both doing a great job--

LLAMAS: --how are they different?

TRUMP: --and I do think this. It's a great question. I think that's your most interesting question.

LLAMAS: Yes.

TRUMP: I would say one is slightly more diplomatic than the other. I think they're both of very high intelligence.

I think there's -- a difference in style. You know, you can see the style yourself. But they're both very capable. I do think this, the combination of JD and Marco would be very hard to be beaten, I think. But you never know in politics, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:00:00]

COLLINS: President was also asked if he saw any scenario which he would be the president after his term limits are up. He again declined to rule out that possibility.

Thanks so much for joining us.

"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.