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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump: Iran Could Be "Taken Out" If No Deal By Tomorrow; Now: Artemis II Crew Witnessing Solar Eclipse In Lunar Flyby; Gen. Caine: Air Armada Launched To Rescue U.S. Airman. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 06, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
MIKE MASSIMINO, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT, AUTHOR, "MOONSHOT: A NASA ASTRONAUT'S GUIDE TO ACHIEVING THE IMPOSSIBLE": And I think it came through, on their descriptions, on their camaraderie and their interactions with the ground, the respect they had, the professionalism.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.
MASSIMINO: They are really four wonderful people, and I'm very happy for them. I don't think you could have had a better crew to do this.
COOPER: Well, also Reid, for his children to be down on Earth, watching and--
MASSIMINO: Yes.
COOPER: --in mission control, and naming the crater after his wife, Carroll, who's died.
MASSIMINO: Yes.
COOPER: Mike Massimino, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Remarkable day.
MASSIMINO: My pleasure.
COOPER: That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE" starts now.
DANA BASH, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: I'm Dana Bash in for Kaitlan Collins.
And as we come on the air tonight, we are 23 hours from President Trump's deadline for Iran to open the effing Strait, as he put it -- that's a cleaned-up version of how he put it -- Or face the kind of attack that, if carried out, would have devastating consequences far beyond the Iranian regime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The entire country can be taken out in one night, and that night might be tomorrow night. We're giving them till tomorrow, 8 o'clock Eastern Time. And after that, they're going to have no bridges, they're going to have no power plants. Stone ages, yes, sorry.
We have a plan, because of the power of our military, where every bridge in Iran will be decimated by 12 o'clock tomorrow night, where every power plant in Iran will be out of business, burning, exploding, and never to be used again. I mean, complete demolition by 12 o'clock. And it will happen over a period of four hours, if we wanted to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: An 08:00 p.m. deadline for the Iranian regime to do as he says, or some 90 million Iranians, already living in a government-imposed internet blackout, could see their power wiped out entirely.
Iran and the President today both rejected the other side's latest offers for a diplomatic solution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They've made a proposal, and it's a significant proposal. It's a significant step. It's not good enough, but it's a very significant step.
I can't talk about ceasefire. But I can tell you that we have an active, willing participant on the other side. They would like to be able to make a deal. I can't say any more than that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Meanwhile, behind the scenes, two Israeli sources tell CNN that Israel just approved an updated target list of energy and infrastructure sites in Iran, a contingency in case talks between the Trump administration and Iran fail.
The President today repeatedly brushed off questions about whether such an attack would constitute a war crime, as many critics say it could.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, how would it not be a war crime to strike Iran's bridges and power plants?
TRUMP: Because they killed 45,000 people in the last month. More than that. It could be as much as 60. They killed protesters. They're animals (ph). And we have to stop them, and we can't let them have a nuclear weapon.
I'm not worried about it. You know what's a war crime? Having a nuclear weapon. Allowing a sick country, with demented leadership, have a nuclear weapon. That's a war crime.
REPORTER: Are you concerned that your threat to bomb power plants and bridges amount to war crimes? TRUMP: No, not at all, no. No, I'm not. I hope I don't have to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, this deadline, which, again, is just 23 hours from now, this is a deadline that is the most recent, one that has shifted multiple times.
Let's go back to March 21st. He posted to Truth Social that Iran had exactly 48 hours. Two days after that, he postponed attacks on infrastructure for five days. And it was 10 days which would have been today. A week ago, he demanded the Strait of Hormuz be opened immediately. And over the weekend, he gave Iran 48 hours before setting Tuesday, 08:00 p.m. Eastern Time as the current deadline.
At the White House, the President offered a few details on what he wanted. But he was clear about one thing in particular.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have to have a deal that's acceptable to me. And part of that deal is going to be, we want free traffic of oil and everything else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, the President's insistence that any deal include the reopening of the Strait of Hormuz comes as the national average for gas stands at $4.12 a gallon. That's up 38 percent since the war started. We're talking about six weeks. And it comes after weeks of the administration wrestling with the vexing problem how to get 20 percent of the world's oil flowing again.
[21:05:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When the time comes, the U.S. Navy and its partners will escort tankers through the Strait, if needed. I hope it's not going to be needed.
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: They are exercising sheer desperation in the Straits of Hormuz, something we're dealing with, we have been dealing with it and don't need to worry about it.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: What about the Strait of Hormuz? Who's going to be in control of that?
TRUMP: That will be opened very soon, if this works.
COLLINS: How soon?
TRUMP: I mean--
COLLINS: And who's in control of it? TRUMP: I mean--
COLLINS: Will Iran still be able to control the flow of oil?
TRUMP: It'll be jointly controlled.
COLLINS: By who?
TRUMP: Maybe me. Maybe me.
COLLINS: You want the United States to be in control of the Strait of Hormuz?
TRUMP: Me and the Ayatollah, whoever the Ayatollah is.
SCOTT BESSENT, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY: Over time, the U.S. is going to retake control the Straits, and there will be freedom of navigation.
MARCO RUBIO, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: It's countries around the world should be stepping up and dealing with that.
TRUMP: We have nothing to do with that. What happens with the Strait, we're not going to have anything to do with.
When this conflict is over, the Strait will open up naturally. It will just open up naturally.
The only thing they have is the psychology of, Oh, we're going to drop a couple of mines in the water. All right? No, we -- I mean, we have a concept where we'll charge tolls. OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: We begin tonight with the latest reporting from the deeply- sourced CNN Political and Global Affairs Analyst, Barak Ravid of Axios.
Good to see you, Barak.
What are your sources telling you, at this hour, about any chance for an agreement?
BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, AXIOS: Well, I think the chances are very slim, and I think it's the understatement of the century to say that. But it doesn't mean that there are no chances.
From what I hear, the Pakistan, Egyptian and Turkish mediators are still working with U.S. and Iranian mediators, try and maybe do some amendments to the proposal that they gave both sides, and redraft some of the Iranian -- some parts of the Iranian response, in order to at least create some momentum that will enable to extend the deadline.
I know that, from what I know, the mediators told the White House that, with the current state of communications inside Iran, negotiations take time. And therefore, if they really want to pursue diplomacy, Tuesday at 08:00 p.m. is not a deadline that is realistic, and they will have to extend it.
At the moment, I don't think the White House is going to extend it. It might change. But from what I hear, in order to extend the deadline, the White House will have to see some very serious positive indications from the Iranian side, and I'm not sure we're there yet.
BASH: Yes, which is why the reporting is that Israel is updating its target list and the preparations are underway.
How soon do you think, or you hear from your sources, could these strikes that the President is threatening actually happen after any deadline passes.
RAVID: First, I don't rule out at all that strikes could happen before the deadline. Trump, several times before, gave a deadline and gave the order before the deadline. So, we can't rule out anything. But I think that if he does stick to the deadline, I think those strikes can start immediately after.
BASH: You have reporting, Barak, on a conversation between President Trump and with the Israeli Prime Minister. What is the Israeli position about a possible ceasefire right now?
RAVID: So, I think the Israeli Prime Minister, the Israeli government, is very invested in this war, it's very invested in regime change in Iran.
And, from what I hear from Israeli officials, Prime Minister Netanyahu expressed concern to President Trump, on Sunday, about the possibility of a ceasefire now.
Netanyahu told Trump that there are risks in going to a ceasefire now, especially that, according to Netanyahu, Iran might agree to do some semi-concessions now. But a ceasefire, if -- if you go into a ceasefire, it could lead to a permanent end to the war.
I think that was Netanyahu's main argument, that once the U.S. stops, it will be very hard to resume the fighting. Therefore, I think he urged Trump to continue.
BASH: Yes, fascinating.
Barak Ravid, thank you so much as always. Appreciate it.
RAVID: Thank you.
BASH: And our next source sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee. Democratic senator, Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut.
Senator, thank you so much for being here.
[21:10:00]
I want to talk about what is going to potentially come next. But before we get to that, I do want to ask for your reaction, from all of the details that we learned today, about this incredible mission to rescue the U.S. airmen shot down in Iran.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Absolutely awesome as a military operation. And I'm a member of the Armed Services Committee. We've heard a lot, on a classified basis, about the kinds of tactical capabilities that our special operators have, and they must have used many of them in this triumph. It was a triumph in rescuing this downed airman, all of it demonstrating not just technical skill, but great bravery.
BASH: What does it tell you, and this is about kind of going forward, that this was -- that this happened, that the Iranians still have the capability to shoot down U.S. aircraft, even as the President is saying that the U.S. and Israel have obliterated this Iranian capability?
BLUMENTHAL: Here is what I think the stark, hard truth is. That, the Iranians still have the capacity to attack our aircraft. Despite the claim and the boasting that we have total superiority and control of the airspace, they still have drones and missiles, we have not destroyed completely their capacity.
And the really hard truth is that bombing alone can't accomplish any of President Trump's objectives here, whether it's regime change, or controlling the enriched uranium, or giving the Iranian -- the Iranian people a chance at changing their regime.
But what it also tells me is that we are on the precipice, potentially, of a catastrophic invasion, an operation to put troops on the ground, because none of these objectives can be accomplished by bombing alone.
And that's been my fear that I've expressed repeatedly, based on the classified briefings that I've received, as to what our tactics have been and could be, as well as the fact that the President has dragged us into a war that the American people don't want, without a strategy, and at tremendous economic cost, but now mounting casualties among civilians, as well as our own military.
BASH: Senator--
BLUMENTHAL: 365 wounded.
BASH: And Senator, I know you have been saying for weeks that you are concerned that a ground operation is inevitable.
But what the President is threatening right now is a massive air campaign to effectively bring the Iranian regime to its knees, by bombing the energy infrastructure and other infrastructure, that is throughout this very large country, Iran.
You don't think it's possible -- I'm going to -- ask you about whether or not it's right. But just in the -- just tactically, do you think it is possible to achieve goals through an air campaign like that? BLUMENTHAL: Not the goals that the President has set for this war. Because the Iranians may lose their bridges and their power plants, but they still have uranium, and they continue to have drones and missiles which don't rely on those power plants or the bridges for them to fire and continue to wreak havoc on the world economy by controlling and blocking the Strait of Hormuz.
BASH: You are an attorney. You are a longtime member of the Armed Services Committee. Do you believe if the President goes down that road, and the U.S. does bomb these infrastructure targets in Iran that do effectively power the civilian population, would you consider that a war crime?
BLUMENTHAL: The clear answer is yes, it would be a war crime, and that's why it is so important for Congress now to establish accountability. Say no to this war bypassing the War Powers Resolution. Say no to additional spending in the supplemental that the President apparently is going to request. And why the American people who don't want this war should impose accountability through elections. And my Republican colleagues, maybe for the first time in any Trump administration, should show some spine and stand up in a moment of national crisis.
BASH: Before I let you go, I just want to quickly switch topics to something that the new Homeland Security Secretary, your former Senate colleague, Markwayne Mullin, said on television tonight.
[21:15:00]
He floated the idea of forcing cities and states, like yours in Connecticut, which are considered -- which are sanctuary cities, to cooperate with federal immigration officers and in order to pressure you in to cooperate, to say that Customs would not be in your state. So, for example, Bradley International Airport would potentially lose the ability to be an entry point, internationally, if you don't comply with or change the law and make it no longer a sanctuary city.
BLUMENTHAL: That kind of lawless tactic, I think, would be struck down by the courts. It's one more threat, bluster and bullying, and another reason why we need to impose reforms on ICE and the Customs and Border Patrol as part of any funding for DHS. I have said no to more funding, because these lawless and reckless tactics have continued through violent and brutal assaults on American citizens.
And Connecticut is not a sanctuary city or state, and I think any move of that kind would be struck down by the courts.
BASH: Senator, thank you so much. Appreciate it. I know you have a--
BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.
BASH: --a finals game to get to. So, I appreciate you being here.
BLUMENTHAL: Go UConn Huskies.
BASH: OK. Thank you, Senator. And coming up in just moments. NASA's Artemis II mission concludes its historic Moon flyby. We're going to take you to mission control. And what the crew saw on the far side of the Moon when they traveled further from the Earth than anyone in human history? Our source, the one and only Bill Nye, the Science Guy, he's here. Don't go anywhere.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BASH: Breaking tonight. The four astronauts of the Artemis II crew are about to conclude their historic lunar flyby after spending several hours catapulting around the Moon in the Orion spacecraft. The crew regained communication with mission control, after about a 40-minute blackout during which the Astronauts reached their greatest distance from Earth, more than 250,000 miles away.
Right now, the astronauts are witnessing a solar eclipse from the far side of the Moon. That means, from their vantage point, the sun appears to be disappearing behind the Moon. It's a really unique view that no human has ever seen.
And we're getting our first look at the incredible images of the lunar surface the crew captured on their journey. Commander Reid Wiseman snapped this picture on his phone during NASA's live broadcast today.
CNN's Ed Lavandera is at NASA's Johnson Space Center, in Houston, Texas.
Ed, what can you tell us about what's happening right now, as Orion, I guess, makes its way back home?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think probably now about two -- just under 250,000 miles away from home. I think about to cross that threshold.
But just when you thought this day could not become even more spectacular as the sights that this crew has been witnessing for the last six and seven hours, we just heard Victor Glover, one of the astronauts on board the Orion, describing this eclipse that they're witnessing right now. He describes, as he said, quote, We just went sci-fi, almost like they were struggling to find the words to describe what they were seeing, so.
And this is, you know, we should say that they've done an amazing job, all day long describing. I think that's been one of the most riveting things about today, is not only are we anticipating the images, and the high resolution images at some point, hopefully tomorrow, of what they have snapped today. But listening to them describe what they were witnessing, which is something that the science teams have been very keen on getting these astronauts to do throughout the day.
But here at the very end, after the emotion and the intensity of the day, then they see this solar eclipse, and it's almost like they're struggling, that they've run out of words to capture what it is that they're witnessing, because the Moon was lit up from behind, and then the Earth shined -- shining on the front side of the Moon. At one point they were describing the entire Moon was lit up.
BASH: Wow.
LAVANDERA: That is not something any of us here on Earth would ever get the chance to see. So, just an absolutely mesmerizing day.
And the anticipation continues, because we have not seen the high resolution images that they captured today. We know thousands of pictures were taken, as they methodically went through the path that they were following along the Moon, to try to capture all these various spots that some of them could eventually turn out to be places where future Artemis missions land in the future.
So, this test mission well on its way. They're about halfway over. Now this crew is on its way back home, anticipated to splash down off the coast of California, sometime Friday night.
BASH: Incredible.
Ed, thank you so much. Obviously, keep us updated, from mission control.
BASH: And during the flyby, NASA astronauts also observed one of the largest known craters in the solar system. Here's how NASA astronaut, Christina Koch, described what's known as the Man in the Moon's right eye, up close.
[21:25:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINA KOCH, NASA ASTRONAUT, ARTEMIS II ASTRONAUT: It is the most striking feature of the western limb view that we had, and its entire -- the mountain chains that form its eastern side are very prominent, but they actually stand out more than I'm used to seeing even on the western side, and the whole thing just feels like a big bump. It actually looks like a large healing wound.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Very descriptive, as Ed said.
My source tonight is NASA's Head of Science, Nicky Fox, one of NASA -- one of the NASA chiefs, rather, who gave the Go command for the mission.
That is very, very cool, Dr. Fox.
Your team meticulously trained these astronauts to be geologists on this mission, among many, many other roles. What is standing out to you, so far, about their observations?
NICKY FOX, NASA'S HEAD OF SCIENCE: I actually think that it's their enthusiasm, and actually the incredibly eloquent way that they have been describing what they're seeing, and also hearing -- I mean, this surprise in their voices, as well as knowledge from all of the training.
I think one of my favorite moments was when they were looking at the Terminator, so the edge between the dark and the sunlit portion of the Moon, and then they started describing the colors and different features in a crater. And it was just really spectacular to hear, to hear them doing that.
And then, at one point, Christina asked a question, and she asked about the age of a crater versus the age of the marae. And the whole like science room all went Ooh, because it was just a really cool question, and everyone was scrambling to kind of answer it. So, that was a -- that's just been, I think, the sort of the highlight today.
Of course, I'm a solar scientist, so I really enjoyed the Eclipse as well, but--
BASH: Well, and that's going to end in a few minutes. They're still looking at it right now. What can you tell us about that experience? We heard a little bit from our colleague who you saw there, Ed Lavandera, reporting from what the astronauts were saying. Tell us more.
FOX: I think it was -- it was actually the surprise of how quick it went from being able to see the sunlight to the corona. And even though, you see a total solar eclipse, and you kind of feel like they switch off the sun and the corona appears. But this was -- this, to me, was even more dramatic, because we were watching the sun, we were watching it disappear. And then suddenly it was just like this corona just ballooned out. And it really was a very stunning, very, very stunning moment.
And there were no clouds in the way, because they were in space, and so I didn't have to -- have that frustrating thing of a cloud going across at the time. So, it was really--
BASH: That's such a good point.
FOX: --it was amazing. And you have--
BASH: One of the many things you don't have to worry about in space. Other things maybe, but not that.
This is a test mission.
FOX: Indeed.
BASH: What is NASA learning so far that will be critical to future Moon missions and even beyond?
FOX: Well, I mean, I think, it's a historic mission. So, it is a test mission. It's the first time that we've had humans in -- this is a new spacecraft. It's the first time we've had the humans in there. It is also the first time we've had humans in the lunar vicinity in over 50 years. It's a new spacecraft. They are checking everything, making sure it's all working perfectly. If they find any issues, dealing with them as they arise. And then, now getting ready to return to Earth. There was a beautiful moment, actually, in mission control, when everyone turned their patches around, to indicate that the spacecraft was now -- had finished its outward journey and was coming back home.
And so, I think it's really, you feel like this is -- this is the first mission in the stream that is going to actually set us up for a sustained presence on the Moon, with the Artemis III next year, actually docking in low Earth orbit with the landers. And then 2028, boots on the Moon. And in the words of Jared Isaacman, it's not just about flags and footprints. It's about setting up that sustained presence.
And so, starting to build the Moon base, and just this unbelievable energy around what we can do, the great science we can do on the Moon.
BASH: Right.
FOX: And then even, thinking about using that as a preparation for sending astronauts to Mars.
And so, I think, today for me, was just like that, almost lighting the blue touchpaper, on the excitement that is the Artemis campaign.
BASH: I read that you were 9-months-old, when Neil Armstrong first walked on the Moon, and you were itching to get out of your crib, and that your father brought you out to see it. So, there was something in there from you, from very early on, and lucky for us, humans, you did that.
Dr. Nicky Fox, thank you so much.
FOX: Thank you.
BASH: Really appreciate it.
FOX: Thank you.
BASH: Thank you.
[21:30:00]
And joining me here is Bill Nye, the Science Guy, who's also the Chief Ambassador of The Planetary -- Planetary Society, rather.
How are you?
BILL NYE, CHIEF AMBASSADOR, THE PLANETARY SOCIETY: Fabulous.
BASH: Nice to see you.
NYE: It's a big day, people.
BASH: It's a big, big day.
NYE: Historic day. BASH: What is -- just give me your overall takeaway, from everything that you've been watching this evening?
NYE: Well, first of all, what's really good about it? It's going just as planned. Not kidding you. Yes, knock on Plexiglas, as the old saying goes.
BASH: Yes, exactly.
NYE: Nothing has gone wrong. Everything -- I mean, very small things have gone wrong.
BASH: OK. Yes, yes.
NYE: And so, this is a big deal for the future of the exploration of the Moon and so on. But it's also a big deal for public support for space exploration. As these three guys and gal are doing these fabulous things, and the thousands of people on the ground support it, built the rocket, got the thing flying, and being in touch with them, monitoring telemetry, and all.
At the same time, there's another proposal to cut the NASA budget by a fifth, cut the--
BASH: And this doesn't happen for free.
NYE: No, it doesn't happen for free, but it happens for a tiny fraction of the federal budget.
You ask -- you walk down the street, and you ask somebody, they'll say, NASA budget is 10 percent -- NASA is 10 percent of the federal budget.
It's somewhat less than 0.4 percent. And the return the United States gets for goodwill, NASA is the best brand the United States has. Anywhere you go in the world, people respect NASA. It's a very, very reasonable cost for soft diplomacy.
The other thing, everybody, the reason Charlie Bolden was on here earlier, former Administrator, he said, well, the Moon came from the Earth. We all accept that now, that the Earth was hit with an impactor, where it's spun off, and the Moon and the Earth are now in orbit. We accept that, because the rock samples brought back from the Moon, in the early 1970s, brought back this geologic evidence. Every rock tells a story. And so, you wouldn't have that knowledge and that perspective without space exploration.
And the other thing for me, Dana Bash. I want to find evidence of life on another world, while I'm still alive.
BASH: And this is step one?
NYE: Well, it is a step.
BASH: Well, a step. Not step one. NYE: It's a step in sustaining support for space exploration. So, there are these sample tubes of rocks on the surface of Mars that have fossil -- that appear to have fossils similar to fossils we find on Earth. If we were to find evidence of life on another world, it would change this one back to you.
BASH: We have to sneak in a break. Will you stick around?
NYE: Heck yes.
BASH: OK. Don't go anywhere.
NYE: I shan't.
BASH: There is a lot more to discuss with this gentleman about this historic mission playing out right now. We're going to take a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Voice of KOCH: Houston, we have you the same, and it is so great to hear from Earth again.
To Asia, Africa and Oceania, we are looking back at you. We hear you can look up and see the Moon right now. We see you too.
When we burned this burn towards the Moon, I said that, We do not leave Earth, but we choose it. And that is true. We will explore. We will build. We will build ships. We will visit again. We will construct science outposts. We will drive rovers. We will do radio astronomy. We will found companies. We will bolster industry. We will inspire. But ultimately, we will always choose Earth. We will always choose each other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: That was astronaut Christina Koch, on the Artemis II mission, right after reestablishing contact with mission control, following a communications blackout when they were on the far side of the Moon. The crew is now headed back to Earth after that historic Moon flyby.
Bill Nye, the Science Guy, is still here.
I just want to reiterate the last part of what she said, because it was really important: We will inspire. But ultimately, we will always choose Earth. We will always choose each other.
NYE: It's wonderful.
So, in 1968, after taking this first picture with the Moon in the foreground, and astronaut Bill Anders said, this is -- this was Earthrise, was that, what it came to be called, people first saw the Earth against the icy blackness of space, and realized, This is it, this is your whole world. As Carl Sagan said, This is a home, that's you, that's everyone you've ever met, and so on.
And this mission is the beginning, I hope, hope's not a plan, but this mission is the beginning of reigniting that spirit, where the Earth is a spaceship and there's no other place you want to live. So everybody, it's romantic, perhaps, to suggest that we're going to -- cities on the Moon, and cities on Mars and stuff, but it'll never be like Earth.
And the analog that I give everybody is Antarctica. You build a science base there, and you made important -- we made important discoveries about the ozone and chlorofluorocarbons and so on, unexpected discoveries. But nobody goes to Antarctica to live. It's hostile.
[21:40:00]
That aside, this is the beginning of the exploration of our local -- of our neighborhood in the solar system. And I very much hope we continue to reach farther and deeper into space, because, as the saying goes, What are you going to find? We don't know. That's why we're going there.
BASH: Yes, we don't know.
And you mentioned, before the break, that one of the things that humans learned from one of the first missions was confirmation that the Moon had been part of the--
NYE: Yes, the rocks brought back by the--
BASH: And so, who knows what information--
(CROSSTALK)
NYE: It changes everybody's perspective.
And the other thing, I mentioned earlier, when you look at the far side of the Moon, it's heavily cratered. Many, many impacts from craters. Well, that was the early days of the solar system.
The Earth has been hit with the same frequency of impactors. You can't have that. That is, as we say, a low probability, very high consequence event, getting hit with an asteroid. And if we detect, and that when we do detect an asteroid with our name on it, we're getting -- somebody's going to have to go out there and give it a nudge, keep it from hitting the Earth. And that's going to be NASA, almost certainly. It may be assistance from European Space Agency and so on. But it will be -- NASA will be leading the way.
And so, as I say, it is an ironic time that we have this extraordinary accomplishment, going farther and deeper into space. At the same time, there is a proposal, again, to cut the NASA budget, to the point where missions like this would be very, very difficult.
BASH: Well, is there-- NYE: It's an irony.
BASH: And I don't want to get -- be pollyannaish here. But if you go back in time? It was well before my time. But when Apollo Missions were happening, it was -- society was a mess.
NYE: Heck yes.
BASH: Politics were a mess. There was war. And it had the ability to bring people together around something.
Can we be optimistic to think that perhaps this will do the same?
NYE: So, everybody, you have to be optimistic. You're not going to get anything done. So, yes, we're optimistic.
So, let me say, at The Planetary Society, we are going to push back again. We are going to have a Day of Action on Capitol Hill. Last time, we had 300 people, we led 19 other science organizations.
And understand, members of Congress and the Senate, they describe the President's budget request as dead on arrival.
BASH: Yes.
NYE: So, here's the thing--
BASH: And I appreciate that.
NYE: Well, but here's what I'm saying--
BASH: But I'd also was -- I kind of meant it as a moment for humanity.
NYE: I understand--
BASH: Yes, exactly.
NYE: Yes. So with -- in order to achieve that--
BASH: Yes.
NYE: --I will make the claim that you have to support space exploration, to keep having this global feeling, this so-called overview effect that astronauts report. They look down at the Earth from space. They are moved. They're changed. As we say, Going to the Moon enabled us to discover Earth. That's a paraphrase of a well--
BASH: Well I--
NYE: --often-repeated quotation.
So, it's a very exciting day, everybody.
BASH: Yes.
NYE: Humans are going back into space to learn more about the cosmos and our place within it.
BASH: Yes. Thank you for sharing it with us.
NYE: Thank you for having me.
BASH: Always.
NYE: This is a big deal, you guys. Try to -- remember this. This is--
BASH: Yes.
NYE: --Back to the Moon.
BASH: Yes.
Thank you, Bill Nye.
NYE: Thank you.
BASH: And up next. All the President's threats to Iran and also to some of America's closest allies. Two of our smartest sources will be here to discuss, next.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BASH: A U.S. airman hurt and alone, stranded deep in the middle of a warzone. We're learning new details about what the CIA Director described as a race against the clock to find and rescue an American shot down in Iran.
At the White House, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs laid out what he called an Air armada that took part in the effort, and he also talked about the determination of that still-unnamed Colonel to survive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. DAN CAINE, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: The single most important contributor to a successful rescue operation is the spirit of attack inside the heart of that downed aviator. Their will to survive, their will to evade, their will to recover, is everything. In this case, the backseater's absolute commitment to surviving made much of our efforts possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: For a harrowing 24 hours, American and Iranian forces searched for the airmen whose F-15E was shot down over southwest Iran.
CNN has learned that Delta Force and Seal Team Six were among the hundreds of special operators and intelligence personnel involved in the mission.
The President said the massive undertaking involved 155 aircraft, including four bombers, 64 fighters, 48 refueling tankers, and 13 rescue aircraft.
I want to bring in:
Retired Army Major General, James "Spider" Marks.
And Victoria Nuland, who has served in key roles at the State Department under multiple administrations.
Thank you so much for being here.
General Marks, I want to start with you. I mean, when you hear that description, Air armada, what does that tell you?
MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), U.S. ARMY (RET.), HEAD OF GEOPOLITICAL STRATEGY, ACADEMY SECURITIES: You just showed everybody what it means. I mean, there was absolutely no resource that was hands-off, that was not going to be used in this recovery effort. And there also were extra aircraft, there were backup aircraft that were available as well.
[21:50:00]
This is -- it shouldn't surprise anybody. What took place is unprecedented. A rescue like this has not taken place before. The Air Force and the Joint Force routinely, they exercise and have conducted combat search and rescue operations, but not the extent that this went to. This is quite phenomenal. And it really speaks to the ethos of everybody who was involved in this and everybody that supports it.
I mean, young men and women that are working satellites, communications, folks that are in offsite locations, flying drones from a distant location, and everybody is totally dialed in to this one objective, which is to isolate that individual, provide protection, get in between that individual and any resisting forces. And then you're going to put yourself at risk, those folks on the ground, very, very much a part of it, are going to put themselves at extreme risk. And then you have a result that looks like this. Wonderful.
BASH: Wonderful indeed.
Ambassador, you were -- well you worked at the State Department during several administrations. But specifically, when Bill Clinton was President, during that time, Air Force Captain Scott O'Grady spent six days behind enemy lines in Bosnia. What was it like waiting to hear if that rescue team got the pilot?
VICTORIA NULAND, UNDER SECRETARY FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS UNDER BIDEN: It's absolutely wrenching and worrying on every level, and you worry also what that person is going through, and how they could be used and abused.
But then I think it's important to remember that this rescue would not have been necessary, the lives of those airmen wouldn't have been put at risk, and the hundreds of people who had to go and pull them out wouldn't have been put at risk, if we weren't involved in this completely irresponsible operation for weeks and weeks and weeks.
BASH: So Ambassador, you call it irresponsible. Obviously, there are people who think it's the right thing to do, not the least of which is the Commander-in-Chief, the President of the United States.
And right now, we are up against a deadline, General Marks, that the President put in place, saying that if there isn't any kind of deal, he would target infrastructure and other parts of Iran that really keeps it functioning for civil society as much as the regime.
Does that signal a campaign that is winding down to you?
MARKS: Well, we're certainly at a -- you know, at an inflection point. We're transitioning from one phase to another.
And let me also comment what the Ambassador just said. I guarantee you that every one of President Trump's predecessors are probably secretly saying to themselves, Doggone it, I wish I'd done something like this. Not necessarily exactly like this. But opportunities existed in the past.
But to your question, this really is a transition. The legality of going after the electric power grid certainly has to be discussed.
The one thing -- I think the one thing that really needs to be addressed here is if we are serious about trying to give the Iranian people an opportunity, in the future, whatever that future looks like, however long that horizon is, to do something and create something that's different, we have to give them an opportunity to have some significant hope.
Going after the power grid, not having them being able to turn on the lights and be able to warm their kitchens or whatever? That doesn't help the cause. What can help the cause, right now, is if we don't do that. But also, I really think it's combination of that, plus it's the Straits of Hormuz.
BASH: Yes.
MARKS: There has to be some type of safe passage that has to be guaranteed. That's where the emphasis of the military operation should be right now. I think everything else beyond this point is political.
BASH: Victoria Nuland, can you just speak to what General Marks just said about President Trump's predecessors wishing, when they had the opportunity to go ahead and try to rid, the Iranian people and the region, really the world, of this Iranian regime. That's actually something that President Trump has said several times. You worked for several of President Trump's predecessors. Do you agree?
NULAND: Look, I think that nobody is shedding a tear for Ayatollah Khamenei or any of the others that have been taken out. And I think the fact that, as a result of the June operation, we now have most of the nuclear fuel buried under tons of rubble, that is a good thing.
But how many times did I and others sit in the Situation Room, talking about whether it was possible to go after Iran militarily, and the Straits of Hormuz were always a consideration.
[21:55:00]
And the fact that there was no planning, there was no effort to bring allies together ahead of this operation, to keep those Straits open, the way this has been conducted is completely irresponsible. And it is not helping the Iranian people, and particularly won't help them, if we begin committing war crimes by going after electricity and bridges. It's time to wind this down.
BASH: Victoria Nuland. "Spider" Marks. Thank you both for being here this evening. Appreciate it.
MARKS: Thank you.
NULAND: Thank you.
BASH: Thank you.
And earlier, as the Artemis astronauts were making history, they got a very special message from the late Commander of Apollo 13. You're going to want to hear this, after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BASH: The Artemis II crew ventured farther into deep space than any human has before, even their predecessors on the historic Apollo 13 mission. That is why it was really notable, when they heard from the legendary astronaut, Jim Lovell, this morning.
The late Apollo 13 commander recorded this special message, before he died, last year, at the age of 97.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM LOVELL, GEMINI VII, GEMINI XII, APOLLO 8, AND APOLLO 13 ASTRONAUT: Hello, Artemis II. This is Apollo astronaut Jim Lovell. Welcome to my old neighborhood.
I'm proud to pass that torch on to you -- as you swing around the Moon and lay the groundwork for missions to Mars for the benefit of all. It's a historic day, and I know how busy you'll be. But don't forget to enjoy the view. So, Reid, and Victor, and Christina, and Jeremy, and all the great teams supporting you -- good luck and Godspeed from all of us here on the good Earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Amazing.
Thanks for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
