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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
New Poll Shows Majority Of Americans Oppose Iran War; Trump To Attend 1st WH Correspondents' Dinner As President; Witkoff, Kushner Leave Tomorrow For Pakistan. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 24, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST, FORMER NYPD DEPUTY COMMISSIONER OF INTELLIGENCE & COUNTERTERRORISM: We needed that information right now. So, we conducted the public safety interview.
But my experience is, when you have these committed terrorists who went out to do an attack, where they originally planned to die during it?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: They want to be known.
MILLER: They have been promised by the terrorist organization, valor, I'll be a hero; belonging, I'll be a part of something; empowerment--
COOPER: Right.
MILLER: --I'll have impact.
And this was his moment to say, I have impact.
COOPER: Yes.
John Miller, thank you. Elie Honig, as well.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: The President's envoys are headed back to Pakistan for more talks. As the President himself is going to be here in Washington for something he has never done since taking office.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
And as we come on the air tonight, the President, right now, is at his Mar-a-Lago Club, in South Florida. But only for the night. Because he'll return here, to Washington tomorrow, to do something that he has not done in 15 years. More on what's behind that change coming up this hour.
But first, as the President is spending the night in South Florida, he's been facing some political headwinds that could potentially define the rest of his presidency. Some of the voices, the most prominent ones, that helped him actually return to the White House, are now starting to publicly sound the alarm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW," SIRIUSXM: It's important to talk about it now, when we're several months in advance in the midterm, maybe something could be done.
Trump has cratered. I mean, cratered. Not -- it's like not even present tense anymore. It's done.
You're effed. You need to adjust something ASAP.
JAMES DONALD FORBES MCCANN, COMEDIAN: It's going to be OK?
JOE ROGAN, HOST, "THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE" PODCAST: Noone (bleep) knows. I mean, what's going on with Iran's -- the ceasefire? Supposedly they extended it and -- but then they're shooting at ships.
They choose to do it when they did it.
I don't know how this is ever going to work out, you know, I -- I really don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Those are some questions even White House officials are asking themselves. And it also comes as the latest Fox News poll shows that a majority of Americans oppose the war with Iran.
Just a few months from the midterm elections that could break his iron grip in Washington, there are comparisons that are starting to surface in the corridors of power, to a previous Republican President, an unpopular war and a midterm election two decades ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Mr. Bush has hit another all-time low, in yet another poll.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Bush's support at 36 percent is at an all-time low. What's the main reason for President Bush's troubles? Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Iraq is by far the biggest public worry, and aides admit, the biggest drag on Mr. Bush. A stunning 65 percent of Americans disapprove of how the President is handling it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would it take for this President to turn his numbers around?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, just three things. The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You'll see why I'm laughing, in just a few moments when I introduce my next guest. But I should note, you hear the warnings there and what that coverage was like. President Trump has spent the past decade overcoming bad predictions and polls that foiled most of his predecessors. But this time, Democrats have actually taken a polling lead on the single most important issue that propelled the President to the office -- to office in the first place. That's the economy.
This week, we saw the President's chief of staff, Susie Wiles. And the Deputy chief, James Blair, who is actually leaving the White House to go and run the President's political operation from the outside. They convened allies here in Washington, trying to figure out how to turn those fortunes around, and fast.
The strategy? Make Trump's opponents an unacceptable choice for voters. Now, that's not a new approach. It didn't work actually, in 2022, I should note, for President Biden. Nor did it work in 2018 for then-President Trump, or 2014 for that matter, for President Obama.
The President right now says he knows the history that he's up against.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: But even when you have a great president, they tend to lose the midterms.
When a president wins, Republican or Democrat, for some reason, they lose the midterms often, most of the time.
There's something down, deep, psychological. And some of them were good presidents, and they still lost. They lost.
Something happens, there's a screw turns with the voters. So, even if it's a Democrat or a Republican, whoever wins the presidency has a hard time with the midterm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And on that note, leading us off tonight are two of my top political sources.
The Democratic strategist and former adviser to President Bill Clinton, Paul Begala, that you just saw on air just a few years ago.
And also, former Special Assistant to President George W. Bush, Scott Jennings is here.
Paul, little blast from the past there?
BEGALA: Yes, that's -- it is, and it's a similar thing. We have an unpopular war, an unpopular president. But President Bush didn't have inflation, which is the real career killer.
[21:05:00]
So, it's not just that Mr. Trump is unpopular. He is. Not just that this war is unpopular. It is. It's fracturing his base more than I think even Iraq fractured President Bush's base. But this inflation, it's inflation -- it's inflation that got him elected, and it's inflation that's going to cause a landslide to the Democrats in the midterm.
COLLINS: I mean, Scott, history does have a history of repeating itself.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Yes, look, the President knows that. But also, I think the President--
COLLINS: But if he knows that, and he says it so many times, and he also talks about inflation killing Jimmy Carter, I mean?
JENNINGS: Well, look, inflation -- rate of inflation is far lower than it was under Joe Biden. I mean, I think one of the things that Republicans have to do is remind the American people, how we got to this cost of living place in the first place, and it was Joe Biden. Those four years drove prices to the moon. And the rate of inflation is normalized to some degree, but it still feels like the cost of living in the United--
COLLINS: But it's higher than when he got into office.
JENNINGS: But the rate of inflation is normal, and it wasn't normal for the four years preceding, and so--
COLLINS: But it's higher than when he got into office.
JENNINGS: Do you think that--
COLLINS: And he came into office saying, I'm going to make inflation go even lower than it is right now.
JENNINGS: Well, the rate of inflation is lower. The rate of inflation has come down.
I think the thing you have to do in a campaign is remind people, from where we came. And from where we came was, these people that want to return to power took prices to the moon. We're normalizing things. And now, the people that put us in the hole to begin with are saying, We're better for this? That is a perfectly thing to argue in this campaign season. Don't you think?
BEGALA: It is.
I talked to a woman last week who is a public defender, and I said, How many of your clients are guilty? She didn't want to say, but the answer is, Most of them. And I said, What do you do? She said, Mostly the SODDI defense. I said, Golly, I wish I had gone to class when I was in law school. Some Other Dude Did It, SODDI. That's a political excuse.
JENNINGS: It's-- BEGALA: I tried it when I worked for Bill Clinton. We got wiped out in the midterms.
JENNINGS: It's not -- it's not--
BEGALA: Some other dude did it. Oh, blame Joe Biden.
JENNINGS: It's not some other dude.
BEGALA: That dog don't--
JENNINGS: It is the literal other party.
BEGALA: That dog don't hunt, man. You could do -- I hope you do. I hope everybody goes out there and blames Joe Biden, and you can see a Democratic landslide.
JENNINGS: Well it's not -- it's not just blaming Joe Biden. It's blaming Democratic policies, and on top of that, I think--
BEGALA: Really for -- for the war in Iran?
JENNINGS: I--
BEGALA: --which has spiked gas prices?
COLLINS: But actually, Scott, on that front--
JENNINGS: I think--
COLLINS: --just to test it. If they are going to say the Biden White House is the reason we have this state of this, and we're trying to get out of it? Which is something we actually hear a lot from, like JD Vance and others. I mean. But Trump has been in office for this long, and inflation is higher today than it was the day he took office.
JENNINGS: Well, the rate of inflation is normal, and the rate of inflation has come down.
COLLINS: But you keep saying that. But I--
JENNINGS: The rate of inflation under--
COLLINS: But my point is--
BEGALA: Trump--
JENNINGS: --under Trump is not higher than Joe Biden's rate of inflation.
I'm sorry, you keep saying that. But it's not true.
BEGALA: On the day that he -- on the day he took office--
COLLINS: That's not what I said. I said, it's higher than the day Trump took office. JENNINGS: Well--
BEGALA: Which is true. It's 2.75 percent the day he took office. 3.3 percent--
JENNINGS: So, you all are arguing that we should have rapid deflation? Is that what you're -- is that what you're arguing? Look, we have a normalized--
COLLINS: No.
JENNINGS: We even normalized the situation--
COLLINS: I'm just asking -- I'm asking your theory, because--
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: But let me -- but let me -- let me say one more thing about the -- about the midterm strategy, while the -- while this debate over the economy is going to be going on. Today, it was revealed, here in Washington, that Democrats' great strategy is to impeach Donald Trump on day one.
And so, if you want to have a debate over the economy? Fine. I don't think the Democrats actually do. I think they want to tell the American people that, We're going to go out and impeach this president for a third time, and, oh, by the way, we're going to add D.C. and Puerto Rico as states, and oh by the way, we're going to pack the Supreme Court. This has nothing to do with quality of life and everything to do with a mad power grab by a bunch of radical progressives. That's a debate I think we could have.
COLLINS: I do think there's a real question of -- I mean, Democrats are saying, Trump's not doing what he said he would do in office.
BEGALA: Right.
COLLINS: And I think that's a powerful argument, because he did say he would bring prices down, and they're up.
BEGALA: Right.
COLLINS: But do Democrats have an alternative here? I mean, do they have a plan when it comes to Iran?
One thing the White House says is, everyone has said, Iran can't have a nuclear weapon. We're the only ones who did something about it.
BEGALA: Well, no, President Obama did something about it without firing a shot.
JENNINGS: What did he do?
BEGALA: He brought them to the table with crippling sanctions, and they gave up their nuclear program. The Ayatollah--
JENNINGS: The only thing they were -- their backs were crippled by carrying the palettes of cash.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Could you let me -- let me make my point--
JENNINGS: Their backs were crippled.
BEGALA: --before you reflexively refute it.
JENNINGS: He let them keep the nuclear material.
Go on. I'll let.
BEGALA: He's shut down the nuclear program--
COLLINS: Actually they took a lot of it out.
BEGALA: Yes, and they have--
COLLINS: They just--
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: They have 970 pounds of enriched uranium. Do they not?
BEGALA: And it was enriched--
COLLINS: But their argument is that's because Trump pulled out--
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: A 11 nuclear bombs that--
BEGALA: It was enriched to 3.5 percent instead of 90 percent which is where it is, under Trump.
JENNINGS: You can refute the experts, if you want. But they can--
BEGALA: Well I'm not refuting. I'm telling what they say.
JENNINGS: They have--
BEGALA: Look, you want to blame Biden for inflation. You want to blame, I guess, Obama for Iran.
Donald Trump is the President of the United States. He has the House, he has the Senate, he has a White House for now. And he is going to lose the House and maybe even the Senate, because he's doing such a terrible job. Don't -- don't argue against me. You're not going to persuade me. The problem is you can't persuade two-thirds of the American people who think this guy is doing a terrible job.
JENNINGS: Well, the election isn't conducted in a vacuum. There'll be two parties on the ballot. We'll have an argument to make.
And, by the way, they're still legislating to do. The Republicans are going to go through a reconciliation process. And I do think on this front, there are things they could do to show the American people that they do have ideas and plans for the economy and for the quality of life, and Democrats are not going to go along with that.
So, there's still some runway. It's only April, and the Republicans do have, as you point out, governing responsibility, which, in that, is opportunity.
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: One thing Trump wants, and he's going to be expecting on May 15th, is for interest rates to be lowered. And that is when Kevin Warsh is set to take over as the new Chairman of the Federal Reserve.
It was in question this week whether or not that happened. But now that Jeanine Pirro, the D.C. U.S. Attorney, has dropped the probe into Jay Powell--
BEGALA: Yes.
COLLINS: --she says, Until further notice or unless further -- further evidence warrants charges.
Do you think dropping it is an acknowledgement that this was this huge drama, that was created by the White House, that was actually going to foil their Fed chair from getting in?
JENNINGS: The reality is it was going to foil their Fed chair. There was a senator named Thom Tillis who was not going to relent on this. And that's the way the United States Senate works. And I think the top priority here was getting Powell out, and getting Warsh in. And that's a small price to pay, to get a better monetary policy for the United States.
COLLINS: What do you make of all this, Paul?
BEGALA: TACO Friday. Trump Always Caves, and he caves here. Because he had to. And Scott's right. I mean, the Senate wasn't going to confirm this guy because of Senator Tillis, who the President the other day said was no longer in the Senate, which is not true. We know that, because he just made sure that Powell's investigation dropped.
This investigation was never on the level. It was always political. It was always trying to force the Fed to bend the knee to Trump, and it failed, and that's a good thing.
I think you're probably right, Warsh will probably be confirmed. We'll see how he does. But if he gives up the independence of the Fed, after Jerome Powell, a Trump appointee, gave so much of his time, talent, and treasure, to try to save the independence of the Fed? It would be a tragic thing.
COLLINS: Well, I'm still waiting to hear from President Trump on this. He has not weighed in since Jeanine Pirro issued her statement earlier. And he said just last week -- he didn't speak with reporters on the way to Florida tonight. He said, just last week, he didn't want the Justice Department to drop this investigation.
JENNINGS: My view is, my advice would be, you want Warsh. Warsh is your guy. You don't like Powell. Things could be better. Monetary policy could be better in this country.
And by the way, dropping interest rates is a bipartisan idea. Elizabeth Warren was even advising the Fed to do it, when Joe Biden was the president. I know she's against it now. But you've had Democrats and Republicans wanting interest rates dropped. So, if you get Warsh in and he does that? Could be an economic boom.
BEGALA: It should be independent. It shouldn't be Democrats or Republicans. It should be experts.
And, again, Powell was appointed by Trump. He's a Republican. But he kept the independence of the Fed. That's the most important thing that's at issue here.
COLLINS: Yes.
BEGALA: And it's what Mr. Trump seems most desirous of compromising.
COLLINS: And I still think it's an open question, if he stays on the Board of Governors, as he can now -- after his term is over. I mean, if they don't -- if they're not very clear that this investigation is done, he may not leave from his position, because he might think that they might try to revive it, in six months from now.
JENNINGS: Yes, don't know what to say about that exactly.
I just know that a top priority for the White House, and for the President has been Powell out, Warsh in. There's a clear way to get that done now.
COLLINS: Yes, because of Jeanine Pirro dropping -- Pirro dropping this.
Both of you stick around. I have a lot more questions for you.
We have some talk of the town here in Washington this weekend, if you haven't heard. The President is ending a years-long boycott of attending the White House Correspondents' Dinner. Now he's actually going to be speaking at it tomorrow night. What's he going to say? What are we hearing from our sources?
And also, his diplomatic duo, Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner, now heading to Pakistan. The White House says it's for talks with Iran. Iran seems to say, What talks?
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tomorrow night's White House Correspondents' Dinner is already attracting some of the biggest names in politics, media and entertainment. And no one will have more eyes on them, though, or cameras, than President Trump himself, who is actually going to be making his very first appearance ever as president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: And yes, as for tomorrow night, I hope that we will see all of you there. I know the President is very much looking forward to it. I think it's quite fitting that in our nation's 250th year, the most transparent and accessible president will be attending the White House Correspondents' Dinner for the first time. And his speech will be very entertaining. That is what I will tell you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, we don't know what will happen when the President takes the stage tomorrow night.
We do know, though, what it was like, the last time he appeared at the White House Correspondents' Dinner.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SETH MEYERS, COMEDIAN: And then, of course, there's Donald Trump. Donald Trump has been saying that he will run for president as a Republican, which is surprising, since I just assumed he was running as a joke.
(LAUGHTER)
COLLINS (voice-over): But the jokes directed at Donald Trump, during the 2011 White House Correspondents' Dinner, didn't stop there.
BARACK OBAMA, 44TH U.S. PRESIDENT: Donald Trump is here tonight.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Now, I know that he's taken some flak lately, but no one is happier, no one is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest than the Donald.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: And that's because he can finally get back to focusing on the issues that matter -- like, did we fake the moon landing?
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: What really happened in Roswell?
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: And where are Biggie and Tupac?
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: Say what you will about Mr. Trump, he certainly would bring some change to the White House. Let's see what we've got up there.
(LAUGHTER)
COLLINS (on camera): Now he hasn't gone quite that far. But the President, who spent decades as a developer before taking office, has certainly been putting his own touch on the White House this time around, inside and out.
[21:20:00]
There's construction here at the White House, as the President's ballroom is being built right now, which has prompted multiple lawsuits. And also, the colonnade leading to the West Wing and the Oval Office itself have been transformed, basically in the President's style, which means gold and more gold.
Now, after that speech that President Obama gave, President Trump responded to the scathing jabs from the president at the time, and downplayed it.
TRUMP: I've been there before, so I knew what I was getting into, sort of the lion's den.
I looked at my wife, I said, Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Am I supposed to be honored, or am I supposed to hide under the table? I wasn't exact. So, I sort of just sat there and listened and took it in. But it was actually a little bit amazing.
I will faithfully execute.
COLLINS (voice-over): But when he won the White House, five years later, the President did not return to the White House Correspondents' Dinner.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: President Trump is snubbing next Saturday's White House Correspondents' Dinner. But we found out yesterday he will be counterprogramming it. He's got a primetime rally planned in Pennsylvania.
Kaitlan, what are you going to do?
COLLINS (on camera): I'll be at the dinner.
COLLINS (voice-over): Throughout his entire first term, President Trump never attended.
COLLINS (on camera): So, why do you think the President is not here tonight? If those -- if that's what this dinner is, and it embodies, essentially a toast to a free press, why was the President not attend tonight?
GARY COHN, BUSINESSMAN AND FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, the President has enormous demands on his schedule.
TRUMP: The Correspondents' Dinner is too negative. I like positive things. OK?
COLLINS (voice-over): But after returning to Office for his second term, the President announced he would indeed attend the dinner that's a toast to the First Amendment. Explaining it this way.
TRUMP: Every joke was about me, and I sort of liked it. I can handle that stuff.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: And my political sources are back with me, Scott and Paul.
I mean, it really did become this urban legend that Trump ran for President, because Obama made fun of him at that dinner in 2011. I mean--
JENNINGS: Is it an urban legend? I mean--
COLLINS: Well I don't know. He talked about it before that then--
JENNINGS: I rather -- I rather enjoyed watching Barack Obama choose to seal the fate of the Democratic Party there, with those ill-advised jokes, at the expense of Donald Trump, because just a few years later, Trump broke every Democrats' heart in the country when he defeated Hillary Clinton.
I'm glad he's going, by the way. Donald Trump is the funniest working comedian in the United States today. He has a chance to do something amazing tomorrow night. We'll see what he does.
BEGALA: Well, I will say he has been as transparent, more transparent than any president I've ever seen, in terms of talking to you all, talking to reporters, taking their calls, right? And that's a good thing.
It's the thin read I can grab. Because other than that, he has been the biggest enemy of the First Amendment, since President John Adams locked up Congressman Matthew Lyon of Vermont for criticizing him, violating the Sedition Act in 1798. You go all the way to 1798.
This man has been a full-on assault on the free press since day one. Literally, on day one, began cutting funding for press freedom overseas. His Pentagon has gone after journalists. He's gone -- he's sued innumerable media organizations. His FCC Chairman went after Jimmy Kimmel. Now he says he wants to investigate "The View?" It's been a full-on war on the free press.
And I hope that in a room full of journalists, maybe one or two of them can get his ear and say, Hey, this is our country, not yours.
COLLINS: Yes, I do think -- I mean, there has been criticism, Scott, of the fact that he's attending the dinner at all, from people who say that he's not an advocate of the First Amendment. I mean, they're looking -- people are pointing at reports just this week from the FBI, trying to investigate a reporter who was reporting on Kash Patel's travel, and his girlfriend. What do you -- what would you say to those people?
JENNINGS: I mean, I think the first five seconds of what Paul said was true. He has absolutely been the most transparent president we've ever had. I mean, you're there, every day. He meets with the press on a regular basis, answers questions for hours at a time. I mean, he takes calls from individual reporters on a daily basis. He's calling into shows all the time. The President of the United States is not shy.
BEGALA: And he sues them and uses the power of the government to censor them.
JENNINGS: You think -- you think the media is being censored in this country?
BEGALA: I think the FCC trying to get Jimmy Kimmel fired.
JENNINGS: Oh, please.
BEGALA: And he was fired for a brief moment, then the American people brought him back.
COLLINS: I mean, and--
JENNINGS: Well that--
COLLINS: --I mean, I should note--
JENNINGS: Oh my god.
COLLINS: --The Wall Street Journal is getting an award tomorrow night for its reporting on Jeffrey Epstein and the birthday card that Trump had signed--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: --birthday book.
JENNINGS: Groundbreaking.
COLLINS: Yes, but my point of that is -- well, I don't think that's a nice comment.
BEGALA: Who--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: But my point of that was that Trump is suing The Wall Street Journal over that, and trying to get in this huge legal fight with them, which, you know, was thrown out, but he did take legal action against them, because they wrote--
JENNINGS: Yes, he's--
COLLINS: --a story he didn't like.
JENNINGS: He has stood up for himself, when he thinks he's been treated unfairly, and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. But I'll tell you one thing, he doesn't take things lying down. That's just one of the things Republicans love about him.
But regarding the press, and their access to the President and the Oval Office, and what's going on with decision-making. Compare him to Biden. Compare him to Obama. Compare him to Bush, Clinton, any president. It's not even close, the amount of questions he takes and answers? He is -- the transparency is off the charts and is undeniable.
[21:25:00]
BEGALA: I don't deny that. But it's not his job to stand up for himself. It's his job to stand up for the Constitution. He swore an oath before God that he would preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. He attacks that First Amendment every day. And it's personal--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: You know one thing -- one thing you mentioned, in terms of Democrats. There are some 2028 hopefuls who are in town. California Governor Gavin Newsom is apparently here. He was spotted tonight on the party circuit. I mean, he might be there tomorrow night.
It is interesting to think of who will be in that room and what this could potentially look like, when the President is there tomorrow night.
JENNINGS: Yes, every dinner needs a clown. We'll welcome Gavin to town.
I mean, I think the President is going to be the center of attention. What he says tomorrow night to and about the media will be, obviously, well-covered. I expect him to be funny, and he should be funny, and has a chance to do--
COLLINS: Do you think he should attack the media like he does normally?
JENNINGS: Do I think he should, or do I think he will?
COLLINS: Do you think he should?
JENNINGS: He will. Do I think he should?
COLLINS: I mean, yes, I do think--
JENNINGS: I have -- I have no doubt at all, the jousting that we're used to between the press and the media--
BEGALA: It's not jousting.
JENNINGS: --will occur tomorrow night.
BEGALA: It's censorship. Every President is frustrated with the press.
JENNINGS: Who is censored?
BEGALA: All the way back to Thomas Jefferson.
JENNINGS: There's literally nobody that is censored.
BEGALA: He shut down the Voice of America. He defunded NPR. He has sued any number of journalists for--
JENNINGS: They have more money now than they ever had.
BEGALA: --for expressing the truth or their opinions.
JENNINGS: You can't name a single journalist who, right now, is incapable of speaking negatively about Donald Trump.
BEGALA: He has--
JENNINGS: In fact, it's more than ever.
BEGALA: Are you -- OK. He has gone after the free press. He sued The Des Moines Register and their pollster for accurately reporting a poll that actually -- actually the poll itself was flawed, but they didn't know that at the time. So, for a flawed poll, you sue a newspaper and their pollster? It's all he does.
JENNINGS: Does he answer--
BEGALA: It's all about him, him, him.
COLLINS: Will either of you be attending--
JENNINGS: Does he answer questions?
COLLINS: Will either of you be attending tonight?
BEGALA: No.
JENNINGS: I'll be right here.
COLLINS: Watching?
JENNINGS: Yes, covering the -- covering the dinner. Paul will be on the farm, hauling them over (ph).
BEGALA: I will be.
JENNINGS: Which he's obviously good at.
COLLINS: Paul Begala. Scott Jennings.
I do want to note on one good note about the dinner, something that is hopefully not controversial at all, something to look forward to, tomorrow night, at the White House Correspondents' Dinner. I am being honored with an Award for Excellence in Presidential News Coverage Under Deadline Pressure for Broadcast News.
This is an award that recognizes our entire team's coverage of that infamous Oval Office meeting between President Trump and Ukrainian president Zelenskyy. No one can forget that Oval Office meeting. But we were all there watching it, unfold, in real time, and waiting to see what would happen and how the day would go on, as Zelenskyy was eventually basically kicked out of the White House.
On the coverage itself. I should note, this was a team effort that day. We covered all this breaking news with my colleagues throughout the day. I want to shout them out.
Because we did have our photo journalist, Peter Morris, Burke Buckhorn, Albert Luton, Jay McMichael.
Our producers, DJ Judd, Ale Jaramillo, Kit Maher, Sam Waldenberg.
My fellow reporters, Kevin Liptak, Jeff Zeleny, Alayna Treene, Jenny Hanser (ph) and Kristen Holmes.
And of course, the team here at THE SOURCE who jumped into action to produce our interview just a few hours after that meeting happened, with the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio.
This is truly a team effort, and I'm so grateful for all of my colleagues. And so, when I go on stage tomorrow night to accept this award, it's not just for me, it's on behalf of our entire team who does an excellent job here at CNN.
(APPLAUSE)
COLLINS: Up next. Iran says one thing. The White House says another.
Thank you, Paul.
Why are two of the President's top negotiators heading to Pakistan who's not going to be there? Everything we know about the new talks.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: If you want a sense of where things stand tonight between the United States and Iran, look at Jared Kushner's weekend plans. He, and the Special Envoy for the United States, Steve Witkoff, are headed to Pakistan tomorrow, where Iran's foreign minister is already on the ground tonight.
The reason? A new round of talks to try to end this war. The reality? It's not even clear the two sides are going to end up at the same table.
So, why make the trip with plans still very much up in the air? The White House says, it's to give peace a chance. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: The President has decided to dispatch Special Envoy Witkoff, and Jared Kushner, back to Islamabad.
The Iranians want to talk. They want to talk in-person. And so, the President is, as I've said many, many times, to all of you, always willing to give diplomacy a chance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Iranian state media is pushing back on that, saying there are currently no negotiations with the United States on the agenda. I'll note that word, currently, leaves the door open. And as we've seen mixed signals before, like the -- in these talks, that often has ended up in the two sides actually sitting down together.
Notably, staying back in Washington, though, is the Vice President, JD Vance. He was the President's point person in earlier rounds. And also, if you notice here, in this photo, from my colleague, Alex Brandon, you can see he's calling the President, actually. This is him at the White House earlier, as the President was leaving.
He's, of course, someone who was the President's point person in earlier rounds of these talks. The first failed to produce a deal. The second plan never really got off the ground. He didn't actually go to Pakistan, this week. And the White House says he will be on standby, if these talks materialize and if they progress to the point where he is needed.
My source tonight is CNN's Global Affairs Analyst, Iran expert, and the senior fellow with the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, Karim Sadjadpour.
It's great to have you here.
What do you make of these talks? What's your sense? Does it look good? Bleak? We don't know?
[21:35:00]
KARIM SADJADPOUR, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE, IRAN EXPERT: So, it's an odd paradox, because on one hand, neither party wants to go back to war. You can kind of see what the contours of a deal would be like. But there is no end in sight right now. I think that we're very far away from a negotiated deal.
And in some ways, President Trump and the Iranian regime have a similar political philosophy, which I attribute to Trump's lawyer, Roy Cohn, who used to tell him, Never concede anything when you're being pressured, always punch back.
And that's also the philosophy of the Iranian regime, that, if you give in to pressure, that's not going to alleviate the pressure, it's going to project weakness and invite even more pressure. So, you have two sides that are very strong-willed. Even though, as I said, the contours of a deal are in sight, a deal itself is not in sight.
COLLINS: I mean, but can you get even to the deal, if we don't even know if they're going to be sitting at the same table, once they're all in Pakistan?
SADJADPOUR: Ultimately, this regime understands that it's never going to defeat America and Israel militarily. They're hoping that our side, our will and our resolve, will cave. We're hoping the same with them.
Obviously, Iran's economy is in a terrible state. Much -- the United States economy is actually doing well, the stock market is doing well. But they're hoping that public opinion in the United States will somehow restrain the President's ambitions.
COLLINS: Does it say anything to you that it's Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff who are going? Not JD Vance, the Vice President?
SADJADPOUR: I think because of the fact that Iran's Speaker of Parliament, Mohammad-Bagher Ghalibaf doesn't appear to be attending, and it's just Iran's foreign minister? They're probably holding back JD Vance?
But I was told from folks who were in the room in the last negotiations, that JD Vance built a rapport with Iran's Speaker of Parliament, who's been under internal scrutiny. And so--
COLLINS: What does it say that the Speaker of Parliament is not going though?
SADJADPOUR: I think that they want to still test this out. And again, this is a regime which for 47 years has prided itself on defiance. For several years, they refused any talks with the United States. And so, in their world view, that's a concession to actually sit down with the United States at the negotiating table.
COLLINS: The big thing when the trip got called off earlier this week was, We need a unified proposal. We need Iran to all be on the same page, so we know we're getting a real agreement here.
The President told Reuters today, quote, We're dealing with the people that are in charge right now.
But just yesterday, when he was asked essentially the same question. This is what he told reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We don't know who to deal with. They are in -- you know, they know who the leader is in this country. We don't know who the leader is in Iran.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: How can both things be true?
SADJADPOUR: So, it's clear that it's the military, it's the Revolutionary Guards who are ruling Iran. There's not a single individual who has the power that the late Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei had, who could sign off on a decision of this -- of this -- this consequential of a decision.
And we know that it's a regime which has always struggled to come to internal consensus. It's not a process which takes weeks for them. It takes months. In some cases, it's taken years.
COLLINS: Do you feel hopeful about this? I mean, you mentioned the contours of a deal. When you see this, does it seem like progress? Or what's your read?
SADJADPOUR: I think that we know what a deal is going to resemble. I think the Strait of Hormuz will need to go back to being an international waterway. And the deal itself will be about Iran's ability to enrich uranium, and it will be trying to get out that stockpile of highly enriched uranium inside Iran. And then you're just negotiating the terms of that. And these negotiations should be very technical. So, we haven't even started the technical negotiations yet.
COLLINS: What about -- I mean, and part of that, the Iranians have demanded, Stop the blockade of our ports and we'll come to the table.
Secretary Hegseth said today, We're not stopping. It's going to go on as long as we need to.
CENTCOM just put out a picture tonight, which they say is an Iranian ship being stopped by American forces.
Do you think the Iranians are serious when they say, We're not going to come to the table in a real way until this is over?
SADJADPOUR: Again, they publicly want to project this idea that, Don't think that pressure is bringing us to the table, that your pressure is working.
They don't want to validate our coercive tactics. But at the same time, the fact that Araghchi is in Islamabad, or flying to Islamabad now, and likely going to meet with Kushner and Witkoff, shows that they also want to end this.
COLLINS: Yes.
Karim Sadjadpour, we'll obviously be watching all this closely. Thank you for joining us tonight.
SADJADPOUR: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: We'll see what happens once they do leave for Pakistan.
Up next. We're going to take you behind the scenes this week in Washington.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: In this week's behind the scenes in Washington. There are some troubling poll numbers. Joe Rogan's influence. And a President who says he has all the time in the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: We'll be talking about Iran later. We have very good conversations going on. It's working out very well. They got a little cute, as they have been doing for 47 years. Nobody ever took them on. We took them on.
COLLINS: Nicely done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wish I had a better question.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Monday, April 20.
[21:45:00]
COLLINS: Threats, confusion and a clock that is very much ticking when it comes to the ceasefire deal with Iran. Part of that confusion even has to do with the second round of peace talks that we are now told are happening tomorrow in Pakistan.
Do you have any idea of how you think this ends up, based on where we sit tonight?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Well, I think the dominant mood for Trump is he wants out.
He'll declare victory and hope he can get away with it. That's what I fear.
COLLINS: Joe Rogan said, Hey, look into this.
Trump goes, Sounds great. Do you want FDA approval? Let's do it.
(LAUGHTER)
COLLINS: That was Trump who said that, right?
Tonight, another Trump Cabinet Secretary is out. The Labor Secretary, Lori Chavez-DeRemer, is stepping down to take a job in the private sector.
Her tenure has been filled with serious allegations of misconduct.
VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that for everyday people, they're looking at this White House, and they're saying, This is not what I voted for.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Tuesday, April 21. COLLINS: President Trump has extended the ceasefire with Iran, as the United States is continuing to blockade Iran's ports, and Iran is continuing to keep the Strait of Hormuz closed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great. Thank you.
COLLINS: Thanks guys.
You guys could have walked in my shot.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Why, all of a sudden, is the deadline replaced by the complete opposite of a deadline?
COLLINS: Well, I think, Jake, Pakistan's Prime Minister, asking the President to do this, had a pretty big role in shaping this.
Today, though, he just appeared in front of athletes here, and he did not bring up Iran at all, and left the room without taking any questions.
How do you do your questions? It's tough because you're so limited in time.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Oh my god. The five-minute thing?
COLLINS: It would kill me.
Control Room, you guys good to go?
WARREN: Donald Trump is trying to get us to a place we were, before he actually started a war. What a mess.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Wednesday, April 22.
LEAVITT: President Trump announced an extension of the ceasefire. He's maintaining and generously offering a bit of flexibility to a regime who has been completely tarnished because of Operation Epic Fury. But Operation Economic Fury continues.
COLLINS: What was he doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. They just called. Nobody talked -- nobody asked. Because I kept looking for somebody to ask a question. Nobody asked questions, So then.
Secretary, any updates?
COLLINS: You're amazing.
JOHN KERRY, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: What's the length on our block here?
COLLINS: About 10 minutes, I believe.
KERRY: Cool. All right. Rock and roll. COLLINS: Awesome.
KERRY: What President Trump now has to do is, frankly, get them to again agree to what they already agreed to, which should underscore the absurdity of the situation that we're finding ourselves in.
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): America needs a new health care system. The health care system that we have costs twice as much as any other industrialized country in the world.
COLLINS: I mean, for the past seven weeks, it's really been crazy at the White House.
I prefer for my questioning to be on camera. Think it's better.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Thursday, April 23.
REPORTER: In terms of the timeline here, and what this looks like. You know, the President initially said four to six weeks. It was a timeline that he repeated many, many times. So did Karoline Leavitt.
But now Jake, of course, we have stretched into the seventh week, fifth day, by my count, since this war started.
And when the President was asked multiple times about the timeline, one of his quotes was, Don't rush me.
TRUMP: I don't want to rush myself, you know, because every story says, Oh, Trump is under time pressure.
I'm not. No. No. You know who's under time pressure? They are.
COLLINS: Also, our Global Affairs Analyst, Karim Sadjadpour.
As well as Jeff Mason.
And Jeff, you were the one inside the Oval today.
What stood out to you about his answers?
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, BLOOMBERG: I think a legitimate question for the leader of this country.
It got under his skin,
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Look at this Independent.
COLLINS: I mean, Scott, negative 55? Good lord.
JENNINGS: People, I think, admittedly, are still feeling the pinch of high cost of living in the United States. They didn't create the high cost of living, but they were hired to fix it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Up next. There's new data out showing that Americans are feeling pretty pinched by the economy. My next source is the financial influencer known as Mrs. Dow Jones. She has some advice that you do not want to miss.
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: It's the economy, stupid. That is the famous political catchphrase from James Carville that dominated Bill Clinton's successful 1992 presidential run. But now, here we are, 2026, just a couple of months away from the November midterm elections, and it's a key and lasting reminder about how people often vote. It usually has a lot to do with the state of their bank accounts.
According to the New York Fed, credit card balances right now in the United States actually total nearly $19 trillion, an increase of $4.6 trillion since the end of 2019. When it comes to the more than $1 trillion of student loan debt, nearly 10 percent of accounts are 90 days delinquent or more.
If you're feeling stressed about all of those numbers that I just laid out, my next guest has a plan for you.
My source tonight is the finance expert, and host of the Financial Tea podcast, Haley Sacks, known better to Instagram followers as Mrs. Dow Jones. And her new book, "Future Rich Person: The New Rules for Building Wealth (Even If You're Stuck, Broke, and that Billionaire Won't Text You Back...)" is available for pre-order now.
This book is amazing. I think everyone should read it.
And I mean, but some people might hear those numbers and their jaw drops, just because to think about all of the debt that's piling up, all of the student loan debt that people are now having to pay back, for so many Americans. But it's not exactly a huge surprise to see the state, I guess, we should say, our nation is in.
[21:55:00]
HALEY SACKS, FINANCIAL EXPERT, HOST, "FINANCIAL TEA" PODCAST, AUTHOR, "FUTURE RICH PERSON": Absolutely not. I think that since 2000 to 2024, the cost of living has increased 67 percent, and wages have only increased 7 percent. So, if you feel like things have gotten harder, it's because they have, you know?
COLLINS: Yes. Well, and in terms of that. I mean, it's how do you catch up with that, and how do you deal with that? And one thing that you call yourself is a financial popstar, which I love--
SACKS: Yes.
COLLINS: --in our age of influencers.
But your book kind of takes this moment of using references to what young people are living through, like their daily occurrences. You talk about the Bachelorette payoff method, and all of these things, in terms of how to deal with the discrepancies, and how much it costs to just live and be a person, versus what people are making these days.
SACKS: Yes. So, I think a really big thing in the book that I wanted to make it something that you actually wanted to read, because so many people buy finance books sort of aspirationally, and then they just leave them on their shelf, and it keeps us all stuck because--
COLLINS: Or you can't read it.
SACKS: You can't read--
COLLINS: It doesn't make sense to us, normal people, who don't have your expertise.
SACKS: No, it's, I mean, even for me, it's like, it's so much jargon, and it keeps us all out.
And so, I wanted to make a finance book that felt like a Beach Read, that was something that you could -- you know, it had celebrity references. It has amazing stories in it from my life. I interview a ton of people. And so, it sort of feels juicy and fun and something that you want to keep going back to, but you're also getting all that you need to build wealth in this economy. It is the new rules of building wealth.
COLLINS: So, what is the Bachelorette payoff method?
SACKS: Well, OK, so you were talking about how much debt we all have as Americans. And so, the Bachelorette payoff method is -- so you know how, on The Bachelorette, first night, they give the contestant, they like the most, their First Impression Rose.
So, the cheapest, fastest way to pay off your debt is to pay the minimum on all your debt, but then take the debt with the highest interest rate, and give it your First Impression Rose. And by that, I mean put whatever extra money you have towards that debt. And then maybe once you pay off that debt, or you get that ick from that guy, you move on to the second highest debt, and so on and so forth. And it's the fastest, cheapest way to get to no debt.
COLLINS: Yes. And when you read the book, and you hear the stories that people tell you about actually the state that they're in.
I'm so worried about Katie, I believe is her name. She is 38-years- old. She is from Milwaukee. I believe she's a real estate agent. And she said on her debt, I thought I had maybe $20,000, tops? But then I turned 30, and my boyfriend and I started talking about kids, and I wasn't sure I could even afford them. So she forced herself to look. And it was $92,000. She said, I almost puked. It wasn't morning sickness -- it was reality.
SACKS: Yes, and I think that's true for a lot of Americans, where we sort of avoid our finances, we go off of vibes, one day turns into a week, turns into a month. And what we don't realize is that we're on this hedonic treadmill, and especially when you have debt, it's going in the wrong direction, and things can pile on themselves so quickly. And so, what's amazing with Katie is that simply by admitting that and taking the first step of facing it, she then gave herself options. And that's so much of the book, is taking control of your life, because, yes, there are so many factors working against us, but that doesn't give us the excuse to stop trying.
COLLINS: Yes, well, I mean, I think about this, because I have so many friends and people that I know who use like Klarna or these short-term payoffs, whether they're buying clothes. I mean, but you can use it for truly everything now. What is your view of those short-term loans that people are doing? Should they -- should they use them? Are they wise? Or should they stay away from them?
SACKS: I mean, I always say, if buy now, pay later, has no haters, then I'm dead. Because I really -- I truly have, like, I'm surprised I'm not in a lawsuit with them, because they have offered me a lot of money to stop talking about them the way that I do. But yes, they're so predatory.
You really should only be taking out loans for things that are going to grow in value. So, maybe that's your education, maybe that's a house. But when you're taking out loans to buy things that are just going to tank in value, like you're buying a dress, or, you know, a vacation, or something like that? Then you're financing a life that you can't afford.
COLLINS: Yes, and that's not a smart move, obviously.
SACKS: Yes.
COLLINS: The book is so readable, and for a lot of people who actually don't know about this, and you're right, it doesn't have any of the jargon.
Haley, thank you for joining us.
SACKS: Thank you for having me.
COLLINS: And the book is "Future Rich Person." Everyone who wants to be a future rich person should read it.
SACKS: Thank you so much.
COLLINS: And a quick reminder from me tonight. Join CNN for one of the biggest nights in Washington. It's promised to have some headlines. It is the annual White House Correspondents' Dinner, when people from all across the political spectrum come together to celebrate journalism, the First Amendment, maybe even have a little fun.
[22:00:00]
It is the White House Correspondents' Dinner. You can watch our live coverage here at CNN, 08:00 p.m. Eastern tomorrow. You can also watch it on the CNN app.
Thank you so much for joining us here on THE SOURCE tonight. Have a great Friday night.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
