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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Suspect Charged With Attempting To Assassinate President Trump; Sen. Sanders Pushes For International Cooperation On AI; King Charles, Queen Camilla Begin Four-Day State Visit To U.S. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 27, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: --he's going to talk about very highly.
COOPER: Yes.
Max Foster, always good to talk to you. We'll continue to do it tomorrow night. Thanks very much.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. See you tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight, an exclusive look inside the shooting at the White House Correspondents' Dinner, as the suspect has now been charged with trying to assassinate the President.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, sources are telling us here at CNN that more charges are coming for the man accused of planning to assassinate President Trump, and carrying out what could have been a massacre of America's leaders and the press corps that covers them.
I was in the room on Saturday night, when just outside, 31-year-old Cole Allen bolted through the metal detectors, inside the Washington Hilton. Today, he stood in a bright blue jumpsuit, as a judge told him he faced the possibility of life in prison.
Federal prosecutors have just released these images of the weapons they say that he had on him. Of course, you can see here, the chaos he could have caused with what you're looking at.
His calm demeanor, as it was described by reporters, inside the courtroom today, is a stark contrast to the panic that he caused, as the hundreds of us who were inside that room, on Saturday night, crouched next to our tables, trying to take cover, also trying to figure out what was going on, as the President, the Vice President, and members of the Cabinet were rushed out, and the Secret Service Counter Assault Team rushed in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: What the (bleep) is going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You could get that (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn't because I don't want to--
COLLINS: Get down. Get down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It was a surreal moment. And within minutes, that room full of reporters got to work, reporting out in real time what happened, and also asking the question about what was happening backstage, as the President was meeting with top Secret Service officials and members of his Cabinet and staff, about whether or not he would return ultimately, to the stage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST, CNN HOST, "LAURA COATES LIVE," CNN ANCHOR: We have Kaitlan Collins on the line for some more insight.
Kaitlan Collins, we're listening. What's happening?
COLLINS: Hey, guys. Obviously, I mean, this is a total state of chaos right now in the -- in the ballroom. And we're seated maybe 50 feet from the stage where the President was up there, the first lady, Melania Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay here for now.
COLLINS: Security is telling us that everything is OK.
The shooter -- there was a shooter?
This is the main aisle where we saw Secret Service agents rush down the aisle in order to go evacuate the President, and many members of his Cabinet who were interspersed around the room during the dinner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It was a rush to try to get information that eventually ultimately led us and culminated in an appearance in the White House Briefing Room, a situation that was anything but normal after 10:00 p.m. on a Saturday night, as then the President, the first lady, and several members of his Cabinet, came into the room.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We all rushed here to the White House. Obviously, you can see everyone is still in their formal wear and coming in.
Secret Service was doing a magnificent job, having everyone get inside so they can make it in for this briefing, where Karoline Leavitt said, we are expecting to see the President come out. You can see John, they have the seal on the lectern here in the briefing room, obviously signaling that an appearance by the President is imminent.
Now, there are a lot of questions that remain here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, of course, as we covered that on Saturday night.
Flash forward to here today, on Monday, the Director of the Secret Service was briefing top lawmakers on Capitol Hill, because some members are calling for congressional hearings into presidential security.
The White House and the acting Attorney General are insisting, though, that the security protocols that were in place, on Saturday night, worked.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Secret Service did their jobs well. They communicated with one another to remove the President and the Vice President to safety as quickly as they could, and obviously, to neutralize the shooter.
TODD BLANCHE, ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL: Law enforcement did not fail. They did exactly what they are trained to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, there is no question about the professionalism and the skill of the men and women of the Secret Service. There are questions, though, about the practice and the protocols that are in place.
Amid all of that, the President and Republican supporters of his have been pushing today to expedite the building of his White House ballroom, arguing that it is a matter of national security.
[21:05:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This is why we have to have all of the attributes of what we're planning at the White House. It's actually a larger room, and it's much more secure. It's got -- it's drone-proof, it's bulletproof glass. We need the ballroom.
LEAVITT: It's why the White House ballroom project is not just a fun project for President Trump, like you will read in the media. It is actually critical for our national security, that a larger secure building, on this complex.
BLANCHE: We absolutely believe that there is no better example of why this ballroom is necessary. REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Half the Cabinet, at least, was there. They're going to have to re-evaluate this. This is why we need the ballroom. It really is.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I'm convinced if they had then a Presidential ballroom adjacent to the White House, the guy would never gotten in.
We're going to introduce legislation that would authorize $400 million to be spent to secure the pre -- to build the Presidential ballroom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, I should note, the President has not actually asked for congressional funding for the ballroom. He's repeatedly defended his project by saying that it is paid for through private donations.
As the battle over the ballroom is continuing, and obviously will likely go on, Washington is also engaged in an argument over who should get the blame for what happened on Saturday night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: This political violence stems from a systemic demonization of him and his supporters, by commentators, yes, by elected members of the Democrat Party, and even some in the media.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): This so-called White House Press Secretary wants to lecture America, and lecture us, about civility? Get lost, clean up your own house, before you have anything to say to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Tonight, I'm joined by:
The former Deputy Director of the FBI, Andrew McCabe.
Along with Jonathan Ernst, who is a Senior Photographer with Reuters, who is here tonight for an exclusive interview, after he captured a series of stunning pictures as the situation unfolded outside of the ballroom, steps away from where the suspected shooter tried to enter the event, on Saturday night.
So, it's great to have both of you here.
Andy, the suspect was arraigned in D.C., in Federal Court today. Katelyn Polantz who was inside the room, said he was pretty calm and had a calm demeanor during it. He's been charged with attempting to assassinate the President, transportation of a firearm and ammunition -- we know he took the train from California to Washington -- and discharge of a firearm during a crime of violence.
When you look at the charging document, what stands out to you?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: I think the notable change is, contrary to what we'd heard from the U.S. Attorney for D.C., who suggested that he'd be charged with the 924(c) counts, which are the two firearms charges you referred to a minute ago, she indicated those, but she also said he'd be charged for the assault on the on the Secret Service agent who had been shot during the exchange.
That did not happen today. And apparently, they've decided to hold off on that until they get better clarity from the forensics testing of the firearms and the projectiles, right, to make sure that the -- that what hit that officer actually came from the attacker's gun.
But instead, we got a much more serious charge. We got attempt to assassinate the President of the United States. That is a charge that can bring a term of life.
Yes, that -- and one that you have to say with what we know of the evidence so far, which is really quite a lot, very, very strong case for the government here, almost undeniable.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, and obviously now for this President, multiple times that this has been a situation that they've been facing.
But when you see the surveillance video of him rushing the checkpoint. What we heard from Todd Blanche today, is he said the suspect -- that law enforcement fired five shots. When he was asked if the Secret Service agent who was shot was hit by the suspect's weapon, he said it wasn't clear, to follow up on what you said. I do think it raises questions about how exactly the suspect was stopped in this situation.
MCCABE: Yes, we've gotten a lot of conflicting information about that. So notably, a witness who was within feet of him, when he hit the ground, told Wolf Blitzer this morning on these airways, that he just fell, he fell right at her feet. It's interesting to me as well that the affidavit in support of the complaint, the charging document, says that he stopped. Does not--
COLLINS: Yes, it doesn't clarify.
MCCABE: It doesn't say that he was subdued, that he was arrested, that he was taken to the ground. It just says that he stopped.
COLLINS: Yes.
MCCABE: So, I'm not really sure why the Deputy Attorney General's statements continue to kind of lead forward, kind of -- getting out there ahead of the facts a little bit here. It's a bit of an inconsistency, in terms of how the attacker was actually stopped.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, this says that the officer drew his weapon, fired multiple times, he fell to the ground and suffered minor injuries, but was not ultimately shot.
[21:10:00]
But what else is in here is his writings, which we had heard indications of yesterday morning-- MCCABE: Yes.
COLLINS: --he had written something that was pre-scheduled to send. When you look at what he wrote and who he was going after, he basically listed it out, making clear it was administration officials that are prioritized, from the highest-ranking officials to the lowest.
MCCABE: It's absolutely explicit. And it's also presented in a very, hate to say, logical, because assassinating the President is not a logical act, but it's a very well-organized and articulate person.
He's clearly given a lot of thought to this. It begins with a series of apologies to all the people he thinks he's disappointing. Makes reference to the fact that he might not live through this -- through this attack. It basically not only serves as a bit of a confession before the fact, but it also obliterates any effort that he may have had to mount a defense of diminished capacity or insanity.
COLLINS: Right.
MCCABE: This is clearly not an insane person.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, and Jonathan, you were there in that room. Obviously, we have seen the videos.
Your pictures are some of the most stunning, because you're just outside where the Secret Service agent had her weapon drawn. I mean, you look at these photos, and it kind of says it all about what was happening in these moments. They were shouting directions at people. There were people who, like Wolf Blitzer, were caught in the middle of going to the restroom, or walking out in the hallway.
What did you see?
JONATHAN ERNST, SENIOR PHOTOGRAPHER, REUTERS: Well, thank you for having me, Kaitlan.
We were pulled off to have our own dinner. When the dinner hour starts at the Correspondents' Association Dinner, they pulled the White House pool to their own area. And so, we were in actually a very quiet hallway, and we didn't know at the time, but we were at the base of a stairway that led up to near where the shooting happened.
But when we first arrived, there was a collision between a couple of waiters, some glasses broke and water spilled, things like that. And so, when the -- when the gun fire first happened, where we were was a very quiet hallway, and it was just us. So, I think actually we probably heard the sound more clearly than the people in the ballroom, where it would have been muffled and there would have been the din of the people.
So, it was very clear that something had happened, but it wasn't clear what. And very quickly, as you saw, the officers and Secret Service agents drew guns. Then, you know, something very serious has happened. Some members rushed towards the door. I didn't think -- we were pretty far away from the stage. I didn't think that was probably the -- where the next picture would come from.
We're there to cover the President. I expected him to be rushed out. There's a -- there's a back hallway, and so I kind of stayed focused on that. I thought if we did see him at all, if he had been injured or not, that, you know, like you see in the movies, Secret Service agents would gather him up and rush him out. We never saw that. Now we know he stayed backstage and argued to rejoin the dinner. But we did see the Speaker and some other dignitaries hustled out.
COLLINS: Well, and HHS Secretary, RFK Jr., I mean, there's pictures of that, and House Speaker Mike Johnson, being evacuated, of these photos that you took. I believe we have these photos that we can show here. I mean, what was it like to see these officials being rushed out of the room?
ERNST: It was surprising, to me, that they left us there. There were safe rooms that they knew they were taking these folks to, and so they were bringing them almost right at us. We now know that we were at the base of that stairway, they couldn't take us up the stairs towards the what, at that point, was an active crime scene.
So they -- we always have a Secret Service agent assigned to us to the White House pool, which is 13 or 14 journalists, as you well know. And so, so we knew that we were safe, or we assumed that we were safe, and they really just let us work. And it was astonishing, really, to see these dignitaries come out, and Secretary Kennedy, especially knowing his family history and--
COLLINS: Yes, well and--
ERNST: --where we were.
COLLINS: He was not seated that far from me. He was limping, as they were taking him out. It's not clear to me what was happening there, I mean, and we didn't know in the moment what had happened to him, if it was a health issue, it wasn't clear.
Now that we do know, and we know more about this shooter's profile. When you look at it, as the President himself was noting yesterday, this person was educated, had won multiple awards.
When you look at the CNN's review of his social media accounts, which now is the first thing people do--
MCCABE: Of course.
COLLINS: --when a shooter is now identified, talking about video games four years ago, to then shifting, in 2024, to political content, rage. There was a Bluesky account that was tied to him that says, Everyone already knows Trump is an effing awful person in multiple dimensions. No one has done about it. He called the President a traitor.
Obviously, all of that is going to be part of this person's next court appearance at the end of the month.
MCCABE: No question. No question. And then -- and this is all like key parts of the case, which, as we said earlier, seems to be incredibly strong at this point.
[21:15:00]
But this information is also vital to law enforcement for the intelligence it gives us. About that question of, how did this person, this highly successful, highly intelligent, well-educated person, go from graduating from one of the toughest engineering schools in the country and just getting his master's degree, to becoming so seemingly possessed by grievance and rage that he would even consider engaging in an active political violence like this?
COLLINS: Yes.
MCCABE: It's a tough thing to zero in on. But the writings, the communications, and looking back over that history is very illustrative to investigators.
COLLINS: Yes.
Andy McCabe, we'll check back in with you on the latest on the investigation.
Jonathan Ernst, glad you're safe.
ERNST: Thank you.
COLLINS: And thankful for your work over the weekend on these pictures.
I do want to note on one positive note, this evening. We've learned what happened to the thousands of unserved meals from Saturday night's dinner. That's according to the White House Correspondents' Association president, our friend, Weijia Jiang.
The Hilton donated the roughly 2,600 dinners that were prepared for the evening, freeze drying the steak and lobster to give it a longer shelf life, and then donating it to two shelters for abused women and children.
Thankfully, it is going to good use. And shout out to Weijia for beautifully handling that and this entire chaotic weekend.
Up next. There's a lot to talk about with my next source, from Saturday's attack, to the latest in the war with Iran, his push to regulate AI. Senator Bernie Sanders will join me, right after this.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Our CNN teams have been digging through more than 700 social media posts from the suspect, in Saturday night's major scare here in Washington. There's a noticeable shift from what he was posting, back in 2022, mostly about video games, to then 2024, when he started posting angrier political message. Those postings echo arguments that were in that message that Cole Allen allegedly sent to family members before the attack that laid out his plan.
Here to talk about that, and a whole lot more, is the Independent senator of Vermont, Senator Bernie Sanders.
Senator, you've obviously been in Washington for some time. You have seen events. What did you make of what happened on Saturday?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Look, it's horrible. It is, you know, the idea that people think assassination is going to accomplish anything positive. Last year, head of the Minnesota State Legislature was killed. I think we're tired of it, we're tired of the violence. Thank God nobody was hurt.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, you've been in Congress 35 years?
SANDERS: Was elected in '90, yes.
COLLINS: When you look at political violence today. I mean, it's in the fabric of this country's history. It's not like it's new. But what do you -- what is your view on where it is today and--
(CROSSTALK)
SANDERS: Yes, it's worse than it's -- it's clearly worse than it's ever been, the -- you read the Internet, the acrimony, the hatred, it's unprecedented, and it's very dangerous, and it's tragic.
COLLINS: What do you think can be done about it? From political leaders? I mean, you have a huge voice. I've seen your rallies. People listen to you, to others. What do you think people who have those big microphones should do?
SANDERS: I think what we have got to do is focus on issues and not personality. Look, I disagree with everything that -- virtually everything that Trump stands for. But let's talk about the issues, why we disagree on the issues, and not get into these terribly vicious personal attacks.
COLLINS: Yes.
Here in Washington, obviously they're asking for congressional hearings into this. Do you think we'll see that, on security, in terms of the entire -- a big part of the line of succession being in that room on Saturday night?
SANDERS: Yes, I do.
COLLINS: You do think there should be?
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: OK. Anything else on that?
SANDERS: No.
COLLINS: One hearing that you do want to -- that you will have this week is focused on artificial intelligence.
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: And we've talked a lot about this. And on Wednesday. You've described this as a hearing focused on the existential risks of AI, and the need for international cooperation.
Some people might ask, How is that international cooperation possible when there's so much competition in this space?
SANDERS: And that's a fair question. Look, the American people, I think, and the polling indicates, are increasingly anxious and concerned about AI and robotics. They're concerned that the wealthiest people in the world, who have shown a kind of contempt for working people, are pushing this, these technologies.
Bezos, recently, Jeff Bezos, the owner of The Washington Post, recently indicated he wants to raise $100 billion to automate factories. You know what that means? That means wipe out manufacturing jobs in America.
So, the American people, I think, are concerned about the economic impact, who's pushing it, but they're also concerned about the existential threat. What does that mean? It means that some of the leading scientists in the world -- in fact, a guy named Dr. Geoffrey Hinton, who's the Godfather of AI, the Nobel Prize winner, he says there's a 10 to 20 percent chance that if AI becomes smarter than human beings, which is likely, that it could result, literally, in the extermination of humanity.
COLLINS: But only 10 to 20 percent.
SANDERS: Only -- hey, what's the problem? Right. But you would think -- and he's not alone. I mean, there was a letter signed by Elon Musk, three years ago, along with a 1,000 other industry leaders. And what they said is, We got to get a handle on this runaway train. It is moving very, very rapidly. We can't control it, and there has to be a way to make sure that this does not have a negative impact on humanity.
[21:25:00]
So, I think you need international cooperation. I think we need to talk to the Chinese and to people around the world. And by the way, a good news, I think, is that Trump and President Xi, in their next summit, will be talking about AI safety. I think that's a step forward.
COLLINS: Well, I'm glad you brought that up, actually. Because the Treasury Secretary tweeted that you were inviting foreign nationals to tell the United States how to regulate AI, and he said, that's like Channeling Hugo Chavez to get advice on how to run our economy--
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: --oh wait, the Senator from Vermont did that 20 years ago, too.
SANDERS: Ho Ho Ho.
Oh this is a--
COLLINS: That's what Secretary Bessent said.
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: What do you make of that?
SANDERS: Well, what I think about it is that we're not asking the Chinese to help us run the economy. What we are demanding is that scientists from China, some of whom have this very same concern that American scientists have, start talking about the issue.
Back in the Cold War, when the United States was dealing with a lot of animosity with the then-Soviet Union. Gorbachev from the Soviet Union and Reagan was smart enough to say that a nuclear war would benefit nobody, and they sat down and they worked out a treaty.
COLLINS: But Xi Jinping is not saying that we should have a moratorium on AI. The concern that critics of what you've said about AI are saying is, Well, if there's a moratorium on it, we're going to be at a disadvantage compared to everyone else.
SANDERS: Well, I think there are two different issues. I think right now we're focusing on the existential threat.
In terms of the moratorium. You have economists, the guy who's head of Verizon, not a great, raving socialist, said that he thought within five years, three to five years, we'd have a 20 to 30 percent unemployment in America. You think that finished -- we might want to get a handle on? He's not alone.
So, you're dealing with the possibility of massive unemployment. You're dealing with the possibility of robots taking over manufacturing jobs, with many of our kids getting AI companions, emotionally hooked on that. These are serious issues, and Congress has been way, way behind in terms of addressing them.
But the most important issue to my mind is the existential threat that scientists all over the world are talking about. So, I'm glad that the President is going to be meeting with the leader of China to talk about it. I think Chinese and American scientists should do exactly the same.
COLLINS: So, you're not worried about the criticism you've gotten for the experts you've invited on Wednesday, or for by what Secretary Bessent is--
SANDERS: Look, what we are -- the billionaire class is getting very nervous. I mean, the people who put huge amounts of money into AI are suddenly waking up to see the American people opposing data centers for a whole lot of reasons. And poll after poll shows, you know what, the American people are very worried about, what this means economically, what it means socially, what it means existentially. This thing is moving like a rocket. And I think what people are saying, Hey, wait a minute, let's make AI and robotics work for humanity, not the other way around.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, data centers especially.
Can I also get your view on Iran, and the latest there?
My colleague, Kevin Liptak, is reporting that the President we know had a meeting with his national security team today. He doesn't seem likely to accept the latest proposal from Iran to end this war, because they proposed a plan that would reopen the Strait of Hormuz, but it leaves questions about the nuclear program for later negotiations.
Do you think there are good options facing the President right now in Iran?
SANDERS: Look, I think this war has been a disaster. I think the idea that the United States of America, kind of pushed by Israel, would, in the middle of the night, bomb Iran, cause massive amounts of civilian damage, start a terrible war which has now killed thousands of people. So, I think we've got to figure out a way to get out of it. But this war has been a terrible mistake.
COLLINS: I don't think we've had you -- a chance to speak with you yet. We've talked to some of your colleagues who you caucus with, the Democrats. But you have been putting out resolutions to block some arms sales to Israel.
SANDERS: That's right.
COLLINS: It wasn't getting a ton of support.
SANDERS: Right.
COLLINS: It's been getting a lot more support from the Democrats that you caucus with.
SANDERS: You know why?
COLLINS: Why do you think that is?
SANDERS: I know why. Because the American people are saying, Wait a second. We can't afford health care. We can't afford groceries. We can't afford housing. And you're putting billions of dollars into the right-wing extremist government of Netanyahu, who committed genocide in Gaza, who started a war in Iran, who has displaced a million people in Lebanon, who is destroying the West bank's possibility of a two- state solution. Why should we continue to fund that?
So, I think that's what the American people are saying, and Democrats on Capitol Hill are catching on to that.
COLLINS: In Iran, do you think that the United States should withdraw the U.S. forces from the region?
SANDERS: I think we got to get out of there as quickly as possible, yes.
COLLINS: So, you would support immediately taking everyone out?
SANDERS: Well I'm not -- I won't say, immediately. It's got to be done intelligibly and in a way that works.
COLLINS: Yes.
[21:30:00]
You know, I mentioned -- I just want to circle back on this. You have -- I mean, I remember covering you on the trail, when you were running for president. Even now, we've seen when you've appeared with Zohran Mamdani, AOC, others. These huge crowds at events. And given the concerns of a political violence, do you have concerns for your own safety at times?
SANDERS: Yes, of course we do. But let's stay away from that. It's -- yes, look, it's anybody--
COLLINS: I mean, it's just scary to be a politician, I think.
SANDERS: Yes, it is.
COLLINS: If you want someone -- you encourage a lot of young people to go and run for office--
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: --to try to make a change.
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: But some people might look at this environment and say, I don't want to do that.
SANDERS: Well, I think you've got to always look at all of the risks.
But I am very proud that all over this country, there are hundreds and hundreds of young people, often working-class kids, often people of color, who are prepared to get involved in the political process, and take on the oligarchy that this country is becoming, take on Trump's authoritarianism, and fight for a government and an economy that works for all of us and not just the few. And one of the things that I am so pleased that, and so excited about, is seeing so many great young people getting involved.
This weekend, actually, I'll be going to -- we're going to Missouri. We're going to Detroit, Michigan. And we're going to Minnesota. And we're going to Ohio. To support a bunch of candidates. I'll be doing a lot of that. COLLINS: Yes. We'll be watching that closely. Senator Bernie Sanders. And we'll be watching your hearing on Wednesday as well. Thank you for joining us.
SANDERS: Thank you very much.
COLLINS: Appreciate your time on multiple topics tonight.
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: A quick programming note. Next week, I'm going to be traveling to California. I'll be moderating the gubernatorial primary debate there. That's next Tuesday on May 5th, alongside my colleague Elex Michaelson.
It's one of the final opportunities for voters to actually hear directly from the candidates who are fighting to lead the most populous state in the nation. Seven candidates have qualified to participate in the debate. Chad Bianco and Steve Hilton, the Republicans. As well as Xavier Becerra, Matt Mahan, Katie Porter, Tom Steyer and Antonio Villaraigosa.
The high-stakes debate will air live, next Tuesday, at 09:00 p.m. Eastern, 06:00 p.m. Pacific on CNN.
Up next here for us on THE SOURCE. What Jimmy Kimmel said that has the President and first lady now demanding ABC fire him. My political sources are here. As Jimmy Kimmel just tape a new episode of his show.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump, and the first lady, Melania Trump, are pressuring ABC to fire the late night host, Jimmy Kimmel, citing a joke that he made two days before the assassination attempt at Saturday's White House Correspondents' Dinner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": And of course, our first lady, Melania, is here. Look at Mel -- so beautiful. Mrs. Trump, you have a glow like an expectant widow.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It was that comment there in the skit, where Kimmel was imagining himself as the comedian who was headlining the dinner, and calling out attendees like the President, and the first lady.
While the President today said that joke was a despicable call to violence and that Jimmy Kimmel should be fired immediately by Disney and ABC. His post, explicitly calling for Jimmy Kimmel's firing came after hours before that, when the first lady issued a rare statement herself, and a pointed rebuke saying, quote, "Enough is enough. It is time for ABC to take a stand."
Now, that was followed by calls from the press secretary, the acting Attorney General, to end political violence, as they blamed Democrats and the media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: This political violence stems from a systemic demonization of him and his supporters, by commentators, yes, by elected members of the Democrat Party, and even some in the media.
BLANCHE: The political violence and rhetoric has got to stop.
When you have reporters, and when you have media, just being overly critical and calling the President horrible names, for no reason and without evidence, and without proof, it shouldn't surprise us that this type of rhetoric takes place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me now are my political sources.
Paul Begala is a Democratic strategist.
Brad Todd, a Republican strategist.
Paul, what do you make of what you heard from them, pointing the finger at Democrats and also the media, which I think they conflate the two sometimes.
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, yes, you know, mama said, when you point a finger at one, some -- you get three more pointing back at you. OK.
Donald Trump, he sold a lot of things in his career, steaks, and vodka, and Bibles. He sells hatred. That's the through line with him. This is a man who, first off, his first act, one of his first day in this new term, pardoned 1,500 rioters, 1,500, some of whom committed horrible violence against our cops.
This is a man who said, and I want to quote him accurately. He said, maybe Second Amendment people can stop Hillary. OK? He said that in 2016.
He said General Milley, his own Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, had, and I'm quoting our President here, and it committed an act so egregious that, in times gone by, the punishment would have been death.
He said, When senators and congressmen said that troops shouldn't obey an illegal order. He said, I'm quoting him exactly, This is seditious behavior punishable by death.
He once said in November 2024, Let's see how Liz Cheney feels when the guns are trained on her face. Again and again and again, he has sown violence and hatred. What happened was terrible, it was awful, and I wish no -- I want my president protected. It's critically important to the country. And yet, for him to accuse, or his flunkeys, to accuse other people? Give me a break.
COLLINS: Brad?
[21:40:00]
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, there's no doubt Donald Trump often needs to do better. I've said that on CNN many times. He did do better Saturday night, by the way, after the dinner.
BEGALA: Yes.
TODD: His speech was very magnanimous and was a healing speech.
But there is a real problem. The language that we're seeing, coming from these nuts, like the guy who tried to come into the White House Correspondents' Dinner, is exactly the language we're seeing from prominent Democrat officials.
Elizabeth Warren calls this administration fascist, like every other hour. They call them Nazis. They call them despots. Mamdani called Donald Trump a despot. That kind of language is emanating up from back, from the grassroots of the left, and you're seeing it in these crazy people's manifestos. You're seeing it in the way, the kind of violence they're calling for.
Even James Carville, who I've always considered a moderate Democrat, your old partner, he says, I don't want Donald Trump to die, because then he wouldn't suffer. I want to watch him suffer. And--
BEGALA: He means psychologically.
TODD: Yes, well, I hope so.
BEGALA: Psychologically means seeing his movement fail.
TODD: I hope so.
But a bigger question, though, is liberals, young liberals in particular, are four times as likely as young conservatives to say, it's OK to use political violence to achieve an objective. We have a problem in this country, and for the moment, it is resting more on the left than on the right. It's just not fair.
BEGALA: Then we have to fix it. The ADL, their Center on Extremism, looked at 10 years of political murders--
COLLINS: Yes.
BEGALA: --from 2015 to 2024. 76 percent of them came -- were committed by the right. Only 4 percent by the left. The rest, Islamic extremism, et cetera.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, because people--
BEGALA: So, the problem's on the right, not on the left.
COLLINS: When people hear what you say there, and think of what happened to Paul Pelosi, as Senator Bernie Sanders was just pointing out, what happened to the lawmakers in Minnesota last year. I mean, there are--
TODD: Appointee of Governor Walz in Minnesota, and Governor Shapiro's attack was from the left as well.
COLLINS: Well, that doesn't mean Tim Walz endorsed that person by -- I mean, who like obviously committed heinous acts.
But I want you to listen to what the Democratic leader, who might become the House Speaker, depending on what happens in November, he responded directly to Karoline Leavitt today and said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFRIES: The so-called White House press secretary, who's a disgrace, she's a stone-cold liar, had the nerve to stand up there and read talking points, being critical of statements, all taken out of context, that Democrats have made, and didn't have a word to say about anything that MAGA extremists have said or done.
This so-called White House Press Secretary wants to lecture America, and lecture us, about civility? Get lost, clean up your own house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What do you make of what he said there?
TODD: He's not auditioning to be a leader for the United States of America. He's running scared to not get deposed in the Democratic caucus. For years, Democrats have, in many cases, rightly said that Donald Trump's deportment was a problem, and his incivility was unacceptable. And now they're saying, No, we must mirror incivility. We must show a lack of deportment. And Hakeem Jeffries, this, his tone, right there is exactly it.
Donald Trump's been shot at three times. Three times someone tried -- someone tried to kill Donald Trump. And there's a through line. Russ Vought, his head of Office of Management and Budget, someone shows up at his house, and uses the same words Elizabeth Warren did, calling this as the fascist takeover. And at some point, perhaps Democrats need to turn down the rhetoric, accept that Donald Trump's president. Criticize his executive orders. Criticize his tax rates.
COLLINS: But one thing they're criticizing is the Jimmy Kimmel thing, saying he should be fired by that. Obviously, he made that comment two days before the dinner. But they're looking at that.
What do you make of what Jimmy Kimmel said? BEGALA: This is a free country. We have the right to tell, even bad jokes.
I, for me, the first lady is off limits. God knows she's suffered enough being married to--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: You think he shouldn't have made that joke?
BEGALA: But I'm not Jimmy Kimmel. I wouldn't, no. But again, I think she's -- believe me, being married to Donald Trump is a fate I would not wish on anyone. So, she's doing that duty for our country, and so she should be off limits. But that's my personal taste. He's got a right. This is a free country.
There's a huge difference between saying, I think Trump is a threat to our democracy, because I do. That's not incitement to violence.
Incitement of violence is, according to Secretary of Defense, Mark Esper, the President told him to shoot protesters in the leg in 2020.
TODD: Jimmy Kimmel -- Jimmy--
BEGALA: That's a real call for violence.
COLLINS: Brad--
TODD: Jimmy Kimmel -- Jimmy Kimmel is a clown. If Democrats need to look at him as a role model, then that's an indicative problem.
BEGALA: He's no role model. He's a comedian. Well, why are they so afraid of a comedian?
TODD: I think she -- I think he's got a right to make bad jokes if he wants to.
BEGALA: Right.
TODD: But it's in bad taste.
COLLINS: Paul Begala. Brad Todd. Don't go away, because there's something else we're tracking here at THE SOURCE. That was, almost immediately after the attack on Saturday, conspiracy theories started flooding the internet about that shooting.
Donie O'Sullivan is my source right after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: Hopefully people will believe the truth, rather than the lies and the conspiracies that so often do go crazy on social media.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Not long after gunshots rang out at the White House Correspondents' Dinner, on Saturday night, conspiracy theories started flooding the internet with posts, like this one, claiming it was, as you can read here, multiple times, STAGED.
Many people have seized on the President's push that came during the briefing that we were at, later that night, just after 10:00 p.m. or so, for his ballroom, saying that this is an argument for why it should be built, and they are now using that to suggest that this attack was manufactured to drum up support for that very controversial project.
[21:50:00]
The White House is criticizing these conspiracies, with a spokesperson tweeting tonight, Anyone who thinks President Trump staged his own assassination attempts is a complete moron.
Joining me tonight is CNN's Donie O'Sullivan.
Donie, what can you tell us, as you've been looking into this, about how all of this got started?
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kaitlan.
Yes, I mean, we see this with pretty much every breaking news story, every major breaking news story these days, where -- and something happens, we immediately hear about it all over the internet.
And in the time, just like on Saturday night, in the time that law enforcement and journalists are actually gathering the facts, people are filling that information void with things that are, frankly, just made-up baseless speculation or in some -- sometimes just straight-up lies.
There's all sorts of stuff circulating online today, about what people think really happened on Saturday night that is not factual, and people seizing on clips you mentioned there, what Trump had said about the ballroom, but also a very innocuous statement that was made by Karoline Leavitt, before the dinner on Fox News.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: It'll be funny. It'll be entertaining. There will be some shots fired tonight in the room.
(LAUGHTER)
LEAVITT: So, everyone should tune in. It's going to be really great. I'm looking forward to hearing it.
(END VIDEO CLIP) O'SULLIVAN: So, clearly there, the shots fired, obviously being a reference to Trump's potential jokes or jabs at the press that would have been an expected in the President's speech at the White House Correspondents' Dinner.
But that sort of thing getting shared all around the internet, particularly by some very prominent voices on the left, liberals. And some of them, trolling. Some of them, saying it's a joke.
But we've seen this, across the political spectrum, where many people who have big audiences share misinformation, claim it's a joke. But many of their followers end up believing it.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, I saw a lot of people commenting on my Instagram, saying, Was this staged, asking questions.
And I couldn't believe it, because just last week, Donie, or the other day, you and I were talking about, how there are people on the right who now think Trump's assassination in Butler was staged. I mean, so it's people on the right who think it was staged for different reasons. There's like, this weird Venn diagram, of people who believe these assassination attempts, this political violence, isn't -- isn't genuine.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. And, as we mentioned last week, we are hearing some prominent former Trump supporters coming out, expressing skepticism about the official story of what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania, including Tucker Carlson, including the comedian Tim Dillon who supported Trump before the election and has since disavowed him. And also, former Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene.
I want to show you part of a tweet that she posted over the weekend. She says, I want to know why the Trump administration released Cole Allen's manifesto immediately but they still keep a tight lid on Thomas Crooks.
That is a reference to this idea that the government is hiding information about Thomas Crooks, the would-be assassin in Butler, Pennsylvania.
It is worth pointing out that the DOJ, both under President Biden and President Trump, said that Crooks acted alone, and they have released some information about Crooks, including, of course, his search history before that day in Butler.
COLLINS: Yes, it does -- I mean, in terms of this, the writings from this person, it was something we did start hearing about on Saturday. We were reporting on it like, obviously it's in the charging documents that came out today. But it is something that we were able to actually get our hands on pretty quickly.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, very much so. And you can also see how that is immediately being played out online, in terms of people pointing the finger and blame.
But amid all the misinformation, and people wanting to blame political violence on imaginary made-up conspiracies. Realistically, of course, so much of it is fueled by the very tense political environment and charged political rhetoric we see online every day. And I think you see some of that reflected in that manifesto.
COLLINS: As someone who's covered this as extensively as you have, Donie. Do you see personally that there is an uptick in this? Does there seem to be a change in what you monitor online?
O'SULLIVAN: I mean, I think there's this sort of normalization of extreme rhetoric. And I think, it's not to both sides this, but you can see the sort of coarsening of the rhetoric on the left.
I think for years, people spoke about how there's all this political violence tied to the right, which, factually, that is the case. But you do see, you know, you can look back to even the case of the alleged assassin, Luigi Mangione, and many people on the left celebrating that form--
COLLINS: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: --of violence.
COLLINS: Donie O'Sullivan, thank you for reporting on that for us tonight.
O'SULLIVAN: Thanks.
COLLINS: Keep us updated on what you see.
O'SULLIVAN: Up next. It is a Royal visit, here in Washington, ahead of a state dinner tomorrow night. What the King said to me when I actually had the chance to meet him earlier.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: For the first time in nearly two decades, British monarchs are visiting the White House. King Charles and Queen Camilla kept their schedule and arrived today for a four-day state visit, calmly carrying on, despite the chaos in Washington, over the last few days. Joining the President and the first lady for tea today.
Later, the Royals attended a garden party at the British ambassador's residence. I actually had the chance to briefly meet the King, as you can see here. I asked him about his upcoming state dinner that is slated for tomorrow night that is going to be hosted at the White House, a huge event that a lot of planning has gone into. He's also going to address a joint session of Congress tomorrow. We will have live coverage of all of it.
Make sure you join us here on THE SOURCE tomorrow night.
Thanks for joining us tonight. "CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
