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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Officials Worldwide Race To Trace Hantavirus Exposures; U.S. Intel Assesses Iran's Supreme Leader Has Key Role In Strategy; Virginia Supreme Court Voids New Map In Major Blow To Dems. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired May 08, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ADAM FRANK, PROFESSOR OF ASTROPHYSICS, UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER, AUTHOR, "THE LITTLE BOOK OF ALIENS": So, I think what this shows is that the real hunt for aliens is not in these, you know, it's not here on Earth. It's where aliens live, on alien planets. And we're getting very close to be able to get that kind of data. It's a really exciting moment for science, the science of life in the universe. But this just doesn't seem to be the place it's going to happen.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Professor Adam Frank, I'm glad you were here to share this moment with us, to go through these--
FRANK: I'm so sorry.
BERMAN: No, it's OK. We want -- we want the truth here.
Professor Adam Frank, it's always great to see you.
FRANK: Thank you.
BERMAN: The news continues. "THE SOURCE" starts right now.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. A CDC escort team prepping a charter flight with a biocontainment unit on board. What the U.S. government is doing to get Americans off of that Hantavirus cruise ship and back home.
I'm Brianna Keilar in for Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Breaking tonight. Sources say the CDC is preparing to bring Americans home from that Hantavirus-stricken cruise ship in the Atlantic.
The 147 people still on board the m/v Hondius are expected to arrive in the Canary Islands, off the coast of Morocco, this Sunday. And the CDC's plan is to escort the 17 Americans on board from Tenerife, back to the U.S., on a charter flight to Nebraska. They'll be traveling on a specialized aircraft with a biocontainment unit. And once they arrive, the passengers will be monitored at the National Quarantine Unit at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.
Tonight, one of those Americans, a passenger and doctor who treated cases on board when the ship's doctor became ill, spoke to CNN, about how he expects to disembark.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. STEPHEN KORNFELD, CARED FOR SICK PASSENGERS ABOARD HANTAVIRUS-HIT CRUISE SHIP: We're not allowed to dock, so we will anchor off shore. Local health officials and international health officials, probably in full protective gear, will come on board, via Zodiacs or other small boats. We will all be evaluated.
And then, over Sunday, depending on when different repatriation aircraft from different countries arrive, we will be escorted to the shore, on a bus, to the airport, and then we will leave the airport. And I understand that until each country's planes arrive, we will not be able to leave the boat. We will not have any contact with any local citizens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Back in the U.S., six states are already monitoring possible exposures to the virus. New Jersey is the latest, where Governor Mikie Sherrill says, two people came into contact with a passenger who was on board the Hondius.
The ship at the center of the deadly outbreak, left Argentina on April 1st. And after that, the rare Andes strain of the rodent-carried disease began spreading through human-to-human transmission. Three people have died since. Dozens more have disembarked or evacuated as the ship stopped in ports in the Atlantic Ocean. Now, officials in nine countries around the world are monitoring confirmed cases or potential exposures, and they're also racing to trace its origins.
The World Health Organization is currently working under the assumption that the Dutch couple who first contracted and died from Hantavirus, while on the cruise, were infected off of the ship, possibly while sightseeing in South America before boarding the cruise.
But an Argentine official says there is a, quote, Almost non-existent possibility that the couple contracted the virus in the city where the ship first departed, claiming the timeline for the virus' incubation period doesn't add up.
Back in the U.S., President Trump insists health officials have the virus under control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Is it making you reconsider leaving the World Health Organization because of the outbreak of Hantavirus?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, we seem to have things under very good control. They know that virus very well. It's been around a long time. Not easily transferable, unlike COVID. But we'll see. We're studying it very closely. We have very good people studying it very closely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: CNN's Melissa Bell is in Tenerife, where the Hantavirus-hit ship is expected to arrive on Sunday.
Melissa.
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, the ship is expected here in Tenerife and, really, authorities taking a great deal of care to reassure everyone that the choreography around the disembarkation of these passengers is going to be very carefully thought through.
In fact, what we understand is that ship will not directly dock here in Tenerife. It will be kept some distance away. Will be anchored just off of the coast. From there, there will be a careful screening. The passengers will be checked to see if they have any symptoms, screened before they can then be taken off the ship, we understand, by speed boats, onto planes that will be waiting for them on the tarmac, to take them on to their home destinations.
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There are, of course, 23 different nationalities, on this ship. We understand that the 17 Americans will be the first to be disembarked, before being taken by that special aircraft to that quarantine unit in Nebraska.
Then what you have are different protocols, according to different countries. For instance, the Spanish nationals will be taken to a military hospital in Madrid, where they will be kept with no visits at all for at least seven days, as they are actively monitored. Those passengers and crew from the United Kingdom will be taken back to the U.K., and told to self-isolate for 45 days. So, that will be up to the individual countries.
What we see here in Tenerife, though, are authorities very keen to explain to the local population that they will not be at risk at all. In fact, what they've said is there will be no risk at all of any contact cases whatsoever. So thorough will these precautions be when it comes to the protocols involved.
Now we look to see exactly when the ship arrives. We understand also the weather -- the weather conditions are deteriorating. It could be that by Tuesday, they substantially worsen.
So essentially, authorities here are going to have a window, from about Sunday morning through to Monday evening, to get these passengers off the ships and on to their onward destinations.
Brianna.
KEILAR: Melissa Bell, thank you for that report.
I want to bring in my two medical sources tonight.
Dr. Angela Rasmussen is a virologist at the University of Saskatchewan's Vaccine and Infectious Disease Organization. She's also the Science Chair for The Save America Movement.
And Dr. Megan Ranney is an emergency physician, and Dean at the Yale School of Public Health.
Dr. Ranney. These plans to get all of the passengers to their home countries. Is it safe for them and also for the people in the countries that they're returning to?
DR. MEGAN RANNEY, DEAN, YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: It is safe for them. They are not currently symptomatic or critically ill, and they've got lots of precautions on those specialized planes. And from everything I've heard, it's safe for the home country as well.
Now, as Maria (ph) just said, every country is handling this a little bit differently. But everyone who is on that cruise ship is going to be expected to quarantine, to monitor for symptoms, to undergo testing if they do get symptoms, and to basically be bubbled off from the rest of society, to keep all of the rest of us safe in the off-chance that there is the potential for further spread of the virus.
I'm quite comfortable with what the World Health Organization and the European Commission is doing.
KEILAR: Dr. Rasmussen, do you have any concerns about the process of the passengers returning to their home countries?
DR. ANGELA RASMUSSEN, VIROLOGIST, SCIENCE CHAIR, SAVE AMERICA MOVEMENT: So, I don't actually have any concerns about this process from a scientific perspective, because I actually think that the process itself is completely suitable for this virus.
We are fortunate in that hantaviruses are actually not very transmissible. So, while they can be transmitted under certain circumstances, from person to person. In general, they are not. And normal quarantine and isolation and respiratory protection procedures can take care of this.
What I am, however, very concerned about is the fact that the U.S. government has not been involved in this response at all, with the exception of repatriating the Americans who are on this cruise ship. And that actually bodes very poorly for future emerging viruses that may emerge like this.
And this is one of the reasons why this is not strictly a scientific issue, and why I work with the Save America Movement on this. Because, we are set up in a situation, right now, where we are looking at a virus that is actually not that transmissible, and doesn't present that great of a risk to the general public. But what happens when the next one comes around and we have decided to sit this one out?
KEILAR: Yes, maybe this is a bit of a practice run.
Dr. Ranney, I see you -- I see you nodding your head there.
RANNEY: Yes, that is exactly my worry. I consider this a dry run for another virus that is with something that has pandemic potential. And unfortunately, with the United States pulling out of the World Health Organization, as well as recent changes in State Department funding that no longer require other countries to cooperate with us, we're setting ourselves up for being behind the eight ball, in terms of the sharing of that critically time-sensitive scientific information, the sharing of protocols, the putting the best and brightest heads together, across the world, to keep not just Americans, but the rest of the globe, safe. All of those systems have been dismantled over the last couple of years.
And I'm not seeing, as Angie said, I'm not seeing signs that give me a lot of faith for the future, should there we be exposed to a worse virus.
KEILAR: It is so important to consider.
[21:10:00]
And we are -- I do want to talk a little bit about what is ahead, Dr. Rasmussen, for these 17 Americans, as they are going to travel on board this specialized plane that has this biocontainment unit, and then they're going to quarantine in Nebraska. What does the next few weeks look like for these passengers?
RASMUSSEN: I have to say, for those passengers, they are probably going to have the roughest time of anybody on this cruise ship, besides the people who actually did get sick, assuming that these people have been exposed and they're at exposure risk, but they aren't going to eventually get sick. They're in for basically a long, boring quarantine. And this is completely appropriate.
And the University of Nebraska Medical Center has actually been designed for this very purpose, to keep people who may have an infectious disease that may present a risk to Americans, you know, safe and isolated and able to access the, you know, the best medical care in case they do come ill, but also in a way that protects the rest of Americans from coming into contact with anything they may be infected with.
This particular virus, as I mentioned before, is being transmitted person to person in the context of a cruise ship, which is a very different context from almost every other single context in the world, other than maybe a hospital or other closed -- close contact situations.
So, this is a completely appropriate way to prevent a risk to the general public, while making sure that these folks who have been exposed are able to access the best kind of health care without exposing anybody else. And this is exactly what you should be doing to end an outbreak.
Unfortunately, again, for the U.S., it looks like this is a great move, and it is. But this is about the only thing that we have done to respond to this outbreak.
In years past, when we actually had a functioning public health system, we would have been the ones leading this. And that's not only important for health, as Dr. Ranney said, it's not only important for Americans' health and global health. It's actually extremely important for national security and global health security.
So, if America is going to just continue to sit these out, and make sure that sure, people who are affected are going to be taken care of, as long as they're Americans, but we're not going to do anything else about anybody else in the rest of the world who is at risk? Everybody in America is in a really, really bad position.
And that's what I really, really hope people take home from this. Don't worry so much about hantavirus. Worry about whatever is coming next, and our ability to prevent it and take care of everybody when it does happen.
KEILAR: Yes, such important questions as we are going to be certainly looking to our public health officials.
You say, Don't worry too much about the Hantavirus. But I know that people are, they are going to worry about it. And Dr. Ranney, they're going to worry in particular, I think, we've been hearing Americans worry about the kind they can contract from rodent feces if they come into contact with that.
I think one of the advantages that these passengers have is that if they start having symptoms, they do possibly know exactly what it is that they're experiencing. That's so often not the case.
I wonder, Dr. Ranney, what you would say to these people who are so concerned they're in -- you know, they might be thinking twice now about how they're cleaning out their basements, or they're doing something out in the shed, or out in the barn. What would you say to them?
RANNEY: So, Hantavirus is not unknown in the United States. Over the past 20 years, we've had almost 900 cases across the U.S. Most of those are centered in the southwest. Many viewers will remember, Gene Hackman died because his wife had Hantavirus. She expired, and then, unfortunately, he died from lack of water and food after she passed.
So, this is something that we know, and that my fellow emergency physicians can recognize, particularly if they're areas where Hantavirus is common. We know how to take care of you, should you get it, although it does, unfortunately, have a high fatality rate and no directed treatment.
What can you do if you're worried? First, don't worry about exposure from cruise ship passengers. That is incredibly unlikely.
Do worry, if you're someone who lives in the southwest, and you're potentially exposed to rodent droppings or urine. If you are in one of those states that has relatively high rates of hantavirus, wear a good-quality mask, this will sound familiar, right, a KN95 or an N95, when you are sweeping or vacuuming. And, as always, if you have symptoms, and early symptoms do seem like the flu, don't hesitate to go and get checked by your doctor. But know that Hantavirus is going to be incredibly low on our differential diagnosis. Testing for it requires a send-out lab. This is an unlikely diagnosis, even in those southwest states. This is not top of mind for most of us.
[21:15:00]
You should be worrying more about norovirus or measles exposure or any of the other infectious illnesses that are tremendously common. And you should be worrying about the fact that we are not training the next generation of scientists, or supporting the current scientists, the way that we traditionally have due to cuts in science funding, and that's ultimately going to put all of us at more risk.
KEILAR: Very important things in focus, as we are watching this stricken ship, and the potential resolution here of what's going on, on board.
Doctors Angela Rasmussen and Megan Ranney. Thank you so much to both you. We appreciate it.
And up next. CNN has some new reporting on what U.S. intel believes about Iran's Supreme Leader, and how he's shaping the regime's strategy.
Plus. A major blow to Democrats ahead of the midterms. The Virginia Supreme Court striking down a new map that voters approved that could have handed Democrats more seats in November.
And the truth is out there, and now it's online. The Pentagon releasing files related to UFO sightings, including videos, pilot reports, and decades of government records on unexplained sightings.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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KEILAR: Breaking tonight, CNN has new reporting on Iran's injured Supreme Leader, Mojtaba Khamenei, who remains out of public view but is still playing a critical role in shaping war strategy.
U.S. intelligence assessing that Khamenei is likely helping direct how Iran is managing negotiations with the U.S. to end the war, but the precise authority within the now-fractured regime remains unclear. One source characterized the uncertainty around Khamenei's status as, quote, "'Wizard of Oz' meets 'Weekend at Bernie's.'" This comes, as the U.S. is still waiting on a response tonight from Iran on a proposal to end the war.
My sources tonight are:
CNN Global Affairs Analyst, Karim Sadjadpour.
And CNN National Security Analyst, Beth Sanner.
All right, Karim, I wonder what you think of that reporting about Khamenei, and sort of his status. How are you seeing it?
KARIM SADJADPOUR, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: Well, that was such a great quote, perceptive quote, from the intelligence analysts that it was Weekend at Bernie's meets Wizard of Oz.
And the question there is, how -- you know, how -- this guy is, does he have his wits, you know? Is he able to actually make major decisions? Is he in a position, is he in a hospital bed, or is he in a position to sign off on these incredibly consequential decisions?
I think there is a consensus view, that is a small coterie of Revolutionary Guardsmen who are behind him. But we commonly think of the Revolutionary Guards as one large monolith, and they're not. There are divergent views within the Revolutionary Guards as well.
But the fact that his father was leader and was killed, gives Mojtaba Khamenei, a certain status to sign off on these big decisions.
KEILAR: What does it mean, Beth, though, for that kind of fractured situation, for how the U.S. is facing challenges as they're negotiating here?
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Right. I mean, I think we've been talking for a while about this idea that, you know, Iran's leadership has always been fractured. There have always been these divisions.
But before, there was the guy, the Supreme Leader, literally, who was the arbiter of the decision-making. And now, they don't have that. And so, you do see factions taking advantage of that, most likely, where, like, Oh, well, I talked to the Supreme Leader, and he said. You know? So, it does make things more complicated.
But at the same time, I think that the United States, in a way, I mean, we have a little bit of an excuse for using it maybe as a crutch to say, Oh, you know, we can't really get a decision, and that's why there's this delay.
It's not because they don't want to agree to this. It's not because they're playing us. It's actually because they're all discombobulated. Well, maybe they're discombobulated to a point. But I think the Iranians are also playing this discombobulation to their own benefit.
KEILAR: Well, and Iran has, we have to remember, a higher pain tolerance than the U.S. We know this, right?
And new in our reporting as well is this recent CIA report, finding Iran can likely last up to four months of the ongoing U.S. blockade.
That's a really long time, Karim. And I wonder, as Iran is looking at that, sort of what is their calculus.
SADJADPOUR: So, the challenge here is that for President Trump, you know, he's spent a lot on this war, perhaps upwards of $50 billion. And to justify that cost, he needs a very strong deal. Likewise, the Iranians have sacrificed an enormous amount. They've probably lost over $100 billion. Their leadership has been assassinated. So, they also feel like, We need a strong deal.
And that's why, even though both parties, I think, ultimately want to end this war, they're so far apart.
And to play on what something that Beth was alluding to earlier. There was a class I was teaching many years at Georgetown University on U.S. strategy toward the Middle East. And back then, you would teach them, that the United States is like a system, and when it came to the Middle East, you're just studying an individual.
Now, it's kind of the opposite. You know? It's really we're studying President Trump and what he's thinking and saying on a daily basis. And we're thinking of Iran as a system of government.
KEILAR: So--
SANNER: Can I jump in there on this?
KEILAR: Yes.
SANNER: Whole idea of, like, the CIA saying that it's going to be three to four months? My bet is, is that it didn't actually say it that way. Like, the intelligence community isn't -- isn't like the Polymarket, where we're like, Well, we'll give 90 percent probability that they'll fall apart in four months, like, we don't -- I'm speaking in, we, but they don't do that, that way.
KEILAR: Once one always one (ph), I guess, right?
[21:25:00]
SANNER: There are scenarios, there are -- it's not the specific. Because think about this. How would we know when the Iranian regime has enough? How would we know when the people would rise up because the food is running out? There's an open border between Pakistan and Iran.
KEILAR: I think the point here, right, is they have some lasting power.
SANNER: Yes.
KEILAR: And I wonder--
SANNER: Maybe it said, At least.
KEILAR: Yes. And I wonder, if Iran is looking at that and looking at the timeline. I mean, the calendar of U.S. elections cannot be lost on Iran, right Beth?
SANNER: Absolutely.
KEILAR: And how that affects the President's calculus. SANNER: And we knew exactly where that is. And I think that the point is that they have quite a bit of running room, and they can decide more, where that runway runs out, than the U.S. President does, because they have an iron grip on the people. So the time -- they own the stopwatch.
KEILAR: OK. So, Karim, the video out today that shows these U.S. military -- the U.S. military, disabling these two Iranian-flagged oil tankers that were trying to bypass the U.S. blockade. The state media says the U.S. and Iran exchanged limited fire along the Strait today.
Trump says the ceasefire is still in effect.
You say?
SADJADPOUR: Well, obviously the Iranians will have a say in whether or not that ceasefire is still in effect.
And listen, this is an enormous concern for our partners in the region, in the Persian Gulf because, this Strait, being an international waterway, is essential to their, you know, their economic model. And so, that's something which President Trump -- I don't think he can end the war until the Strait is open.
KEILAR: Yes.
I want to ask you, Beth, about Russia and Ukraine. Because the President also announced this three-day ceasefire for the war today, just a day before Russia's Victory Day Parade. Is this significant? Could this lead to something more? Or is this just a little like--
SANNER: Well, the President said he hoped it would lead to the, you know, beginning of the end of the war. But Marco Rubio, I think, was a little bit more realistic today, when he basically said that the negotiations are stalled, and that they really would be a waste of time if we re-engaged right now, but we're ready to do it when the moment strikes.
I think that the point here is that President Trump was doing Putin a solid, by asking Zelenskyy not to rain drones down on their parade.
And so, Zelenskyy's response, I think, showed a lot of confidence and his, as they call it, their long-range sanctions, meaning, their ability to fire missiles and drones into Moscow.
This narrative that Russia is winning, that President Trump has been talking about? They are not winning. Putin looks weak.
KEILAR: It's a really interesting point.
Beth. Karim. Thank you so much to both of you.
SANNER: Thank you.
KEILAR: And up next. Virginia isn't the only place where Democrats are facing an uphill battle. In Tennessee, Republicans just approved a map carving up a majority black House District. We're going to speak with State Rep. Justin Pearson, who was running for that district seat, next.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: A major blow for Democrats today, in Virginia, in the growing battle over congressional maps, ahead of the midterm elections. The state Supreme Court overturned a redistricting plan that voters approved just two and a half weeks ago. It's a map Democrats had hoped could help them win as many as four additional House seats.
And Virginia is just the latest flashpoint in a widening state-by- state fight over how congressional districts get drawn before November. In the meantime, in Alabama, Republicans filed an emergency appeal to the Supreme Court to try and redraw their map. The Governor even signed new legislation anticipating a win in the courts.
President Trump celebrated the Virginia ruling online today, calling it a, quote, "Huge win for the Republican Party, and America."
You may remember, he helped set this latest redistricting push in motion, over this summer, when he openly urged Republicans to draw more favorable maps.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: How many more seats do you want the Republicans to draw?
TRUMP: Five.
REPORTER: And then what if California, New York, Illinois, and other blue states decide to do this?
TRUMP: Yes. Well, that's OK, too, but five. I think we get five, and there could be some other states. We're going to get another three or four or five in addition. Texas would be the biggest one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: The fight gained new urgency just over a week ago when the Supreme Court, again, weakened part of the Voting Rights Act, opening the door to new redistricting battles across the South. Now, Republicans in states like Louisiana and South Carolina are pushing their own map changes, as both parties try to reshape the battlefield ahead of the midterms.
My sources on all of this and more.
Former Republican Congressman, Charlie Dent.
Former Obama campaign adviser, Ameshia Cross.
And former Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Tom Dupree. Tom, let's go through some of the legal stuff here first because, there is a lot of it, and there's a lot of states. Looking at Virginia. This didn't really surprise a lot of legal experts who saw Virginia's state constitution creating some roadblocks for Democrats. Explain what happened here.
[21:35:00]
TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Sure. And the decision did not surprise me at all. Basically, what the Virginia Supreme Court said is that this attempt to redistrict didn't follow the rules.
Virginia has pretty specific rules about how you can amend the Constitution, and specifically what the Democrats would need to do, if they wanted to affect their redistricting plan. The Democrats didn't follow those rules.
The Virginia Supreme Court simply looked at the Constitution, said, Here's the procedure you need to follow, it wasn't followed here. And so, as a result, they invalidated the referendum, meaning, the redistricting will not happen.
KEILAR: In Alabama, the primary is supposed to be in less than two weeks. Do you think the Supreme Court is going to let them switch up the map so close to the primary day?
DUPREE: I tend to think they will. It's not a certainty. The Supreme Court, I think, understands that when it issued the decision it did, a few days ago, in the Voting Rights Act, that it was going to have very serious consequences, some that could be felt in the immediate future.
It doesn't surprise me that Alabama is moving quickly to redistrict, to take advantage of that ruling. They have to get the Supreme Court, or some federal court, to give them permission to do it. But as you know, they've already laid the groundwork for this. So, if the Supreme Court greenlights this, they'll be ready to go, even though the election is imminent, it's around the corner.
KEILAR: So, Ameshia, for people outside of Alabama, they have to understand, these candidates and voters, their expectations, have been centered around a certain map, and running primary races based on districts being based on that map. And now, we're talking about a shift. What does that mean for voters, if things are being switched up at the last minute?
AMESHIA CROSS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Well, a lot of confusion, and I think that that's -- that, at least by the right, has been done purposely.
You have voters who have been following these candidates since the dawn of their announcements of their -- of their races. You have candidates who have knocked on doors, who have done the work. You have voters, who have actually volunteered and worked on those campaigns, who, by and large, it won't matter in just a matter of weeks, and in some cases, days. It's really difficult because, not only does it shift the map. It's kind of, you know, it's botched in that sense. It also places voters in a space where they may not even know who the other candidate is, because now the map has shifted so significantly that the people who they've been following in a race are no longer even running in the space where they're actually allowed to vote.
That is extremely problematic, especially in such a short amount of time. You can't expect voters to be able to make consequential decisions, within just a few weeks, or even less than that, again, depending on when those maps are approved.
KEILAR: It is certainly a lot of turmoil that we're expecting to see here.
Congressman, when you're looking at the political stakes here.
Our colleague, David Axelrod, said that the Virginia ruling makes the Democrats climb a little steeper. The tail winds behind Democrats caused by Trump's unpopularity are great, and Dems still are heavy favorites to recapture the House. But this ruling and Trump's willingness to reach deep into his bottomless bag of tricks and cash, increases the degree of difficulty.
Do you agree with that? Do you think that Democrats could still flip the House?
CHARLIE DENT, (R-PA) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: I agree with David Axelrod's assessment.
Look, the Virginia decision certainly is a big blow to Democrats. It will make it harder for them to capture the House, although they think they are still favored to do so. Rather than having to win three seats, they may now have to win nine to 12 seats.
But the fundamental -- the fundamentals of this midterm election cycle have not changed. Republicans are running in the very heavy headwinds. And even in Virginia, OK, the Democrats drew a 10 to one map, and they're -- even under the old map, two of the Republican members of Congress from Virginia are in very challenging races. So, Democrats could possibly flip two seats anyway there, making it an eight-three map.
And so, I think, right now, it's still a tough slog for Republicans, no matter how you cut it. But it will cut the -- it will cut the margin, I think, for Republicans in terms of their losses.
Also, watch what happens in this midterm. A state like mine, Pennsylvania, could flip the state senate to Democrat. That would be huge, and then they would have total control. And watch New York, and New Jersey, and Illinois, in 2027, they might take up redistricting.
So, this war is never going to end. It's bad for the country, and frankly, they need -- Congress needs to pass a law to ban mid-decade redistricting.
KEILAR: We have more conversation ahead.
Just yesterday, in Tennessee, Republicans carved up the lone congressional district held by a Democrat. We'll be speaking with a Democratic State Rep. who is running for that seat, right after the break.
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KEILAR: Just yesterday, in Tennessee, Republicans carved up the lone congressional district held by a Democrat there. Longtime Congressman Steve Cohen.
I want to bring in Tennessee State Rep. Justin Pearson, a Democrat who is challenging Cohen in the primary.
Thank you, Rep., so much for being with us.
What does this mean for your campaign?
STATE REP. JUSTIN J. PEARSON, (D) TENNESSEE: Listen, our campaign continues. We're continuing to pursue the issues that matter to people in our constituency.
But the reality is, yesterday, what happened in the General Assembly was a political lynching of the only black majority district in the State of Tennessee, and it's not by coincidence or incident that that happened.
[21:45:00]
KEILAR: So, I want to read to you what House Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, said today, after the Virginia ruling. He said, The unprecedented decision by the Virginia Supreme Court reinforces the need to go all in in advance of the 2028 election. He said, It's going to be incredibly important that states like New York, New Jersey, Washington, Colorado, Oregon, Maryland and Illinois are aggressive in moving forward to ensure that there's a fair national map, particularly in light of what the Supreme Court's attack on the Voting Rights Act has unleashed.
But I'm sure, you hear in that, there's no mention of your state, there's no mention of any state close to your state. Those are blue states. So taken together, all of these changed maps will mean that Republicans in blue states, and Democrats in red states, like you, have likely no party representation when it comes to the House. Where does that leave voters?
J. PEARSON: I mean, first of all, there're still going to be Democrats here. 50 percent of black African American people live in the South. So the South cannot be abandoned. It has to be invested in.
The races are going to be more difficult. Our race for U.S. Congress has got a little bit harder. But the fact of the matter is, we can still organize, mobilize, and with the necessary resources, win the district that we're running in.
And so, we cannot give up on the South. It's 15 to 20 congressional seats, 200 State House and State Senate seats. This is an opportunity for us to mobilize and to build, and to organize power, and that's what we need to do as a party.
KEILAR: If you lose significant black representation in Congress from the South, how is that going to affect black communities? How do you see that going?
J. PEARSON: I mean, it'd be absolutely detrimental, and that's the intention of the Republican Party. I mean, white supremacy is a core pillar of the Republican Party. Donald Trump is the biggest white supremacist in the United States of America, who is pushing these states to take these actions, and they are willingly capitulating, from Bill Lee, Cameron Sexton, Lieutenant Governor Randy McNally, all the way to the governors of Alabama and Mississippi.
By not having black representation, this puts us back in 1964, 1960, 1955, where black people (inaudible) to be able to advocate for their issues and the concerns that we had.
The Voting Rights Act was the most substantial piece of legislation because it started to make the ideal of democracy become a little bit more realized, and now that has been gutted. And so, that takes away the voices that are necessary to speak to the issues of some of the most oppressed people in the United States of America who have endured the worst that this country can do, and that's what we're going to lose in Congress and, likely, in our state legislatures, if we don't fight back.
KEILAR: And you know Representative that, Trump would push back on that assessment, right, of him, and where he stands.
And Republicans would look at this decision by the Supreme Court and say, We've been allowed to make changes based on party, right? We've been allowed to do this by the Supreme Court.
What do you say, what do you say, to that from President Trump pushing back on that label, as he has historically, and Republicans pointing to the Supreme Court decision?
J. PEARSON: I mean, he can call himself whatever he wishes to call himself. But the truth is, we know his record. He denied black people the ability to even rent at his apartments. He advocated for the lynching of brown and black boys, The Five in -- The Central Park Five in New York, who were all exonerated. He questioned whether or not President Obama actually was an American citizen.
He is a white supremacist, and he wants to ensure that there's a caste system that maintains white power. And he found his allies in the Tennessee General Assembly, in the governor's mansions, particularly across the South, to rig and steal an election that he knew he would likely lose in the midterms. That's just the truth of the matter.
And to anyone who is advocating otherwise, they're wrong. Mid-decade redistricting came about because this President of the United States fought for it in Texas, and Democrats responded in kind.
But the decision that was made in Virginia was made by voters. The decision made in Tennessee is being made by white supremacists in the legislature. It didn't go for a vote before the people. It was decided by a group, a small group of people, for the entire state, and that is wrong. That is very distinctly different, but that is what's being asked for and advocated for, across the South, the same places where the Confederacy existed. They're now taking a victory lap for the final, what they think is, the nail in the coffin.
But our people always rise, our people always fight, and our community is going to fight and make sure that we still have representation, no matter how many barriers they put up in front of us.
KEILAR: Representative Pearson, thank you so much for being with us.
J. PEARSON: Thank you. We're going to keep fighting.
KEILAR: And turning back now to our panel.
Charlie Dent, you hear what the State Rep. is saying there. What do you think about that?
DENT: Well, first, let me state, I voted to reauthorize the Voting Rights Act, back in 2006. For 25 years, and obviously, there have been these court decisions in between.
The good news is, though, we're not living in 1965. We're living in 2026, and we have a lot of African American congressmen and women, in both parties, who represent districts that are not a majority black. And so, we've made a lot of progress.
Now, clearly down South, this is a big -- a big challenge for those African American districts, that they will lose seats. But I don't think it's a hopeless situation, because we're still going to have plenty of African American representation.
[21:50:00]
And I want to repeat something I said before. This redistricting war that is happening in this country, whether it's in Texas, or Virginia, or California, or Tennessee, is bad. What they're doing is they're drawing -- all -- both sides are drawing very safe seats, as safe as they can make them, so there is very little competition or pressure from the other party, and it is just adding to the polarization and the tribalization of our politics. It is making things worse, not better. We need a truce here.
But the gentleman is right, that the African American districts in the South will -- some of them will disappear, not all of them. But watch Republicans. They tend to overreach. They tend to overreach, like they did in Texas. They're not going to win five of those seats. They're not. It's -- they're just not. And they made assumptions about future performance, when they draw up maps, based on past performance. So, keep that in mind. Don't hyperventilate or overreact to all this redistricting nonsense. KEILAR: Ameshia, what do you say?
CROSS: I'd say, it's extremely hard not to -- and full respect to Charlie Dent. But it is extremely hard not to hyperventilate, if you happen to be black in America, and you're watching this happen right now. The Civil Rights Movement is alive and well in 2026 and beyond.
What we are seeing is a president who was dead set on not allowing for free and fair elections. The same guy who denied the results of the 2020 election is now trying to steal the 2026 election.
He knows that the road to success for the Democratic Party runs through the black community. He knows that the black community is not only the base of change across this country, but also the one that is most fervent in upholding what democracy actually means.
So, he has chosen this fight. He has found within himself several southern leaders, across state legislatures, who were absolutely fine being his accomplices in this, giving him major assists, so to speak, not only in terms of pushing towards state legislation, but also redrawing the maps, even before Donald Trump made the statements you played earlier, and I think it's going to hurt black populations across the country, not just in the South.
Many of us have family members that live in the South. Many of us have been raised there, and now are in D.C. or other areas up North. It is really frustrating to see American democracy go down the drain.
KEILAR: Ameshia. Tom. Charlie. Thank you so much to all of you for the conversation.
Up next. The Pentagon releases its first batch of files on UFOs that it says have never been seen before. So, what do they show?
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, 44TH U.S. PRESIDENT: If there were aliens or alien spaceships or anything under the control of the United States government that we knew about, seen, photographs, what have you -- I promise you, some guy guarding the installation would have taken a selfie with one of the aliens and sent it to his girlfriend and press and it would lead to--
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: So, while you probably won't see a selfie taken with an alien on the Pentagon's website. The Defense Department today released what it says are never-before-seen files on UFOs, after President Trump directed the agency to do so, earlier this year. Scores of declassified videos and images, showing countless Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena, or UAPs, as they're now called, like this strange, eight-pointed star-shaped figure weaving through the Middle East sky in 2013. What is that thing? Or images captured throughout the Apollo missions of unidentified lights or objects in space seen from the surface of the Moon.
The Pentagon says the new website has received 340 million hits in just 12 hours.
CNN's Tom Foreman has more on the new release.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Crackling with videos and photos, showing cryptic images of what appear to be very peculiar flying craft.
The release by the Pentagon has UFO and UAP watchers buzzing, even as President Trump, who ordered the release, has said he doesn't know if there is life beyond Earth.
TRUMP: I don't have an opinion on it. I never talk about it. A lot of people do.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Many of the newly-released reports are quite recent. For example, U.S. intelligence officials, just last year, saying they saw glowing orbs traveling in some undisclosed spot at a high rate of speed. They appeared to be oval-shaped, orange in color, with a white or yellow center, and emitting light in all directions.
In 2022, there are reports of a military sensor tracking a UAP, moving from north to south, and in another report, flying from west to east.
In 2024, a teardrop-shaped craft and an uneven ball of white light and a diamond-shaped vessel traveling nearly 500 miles an hour are all reported by military observers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All engines running. Commit. Lift off.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Older NASA missions also appear, although many were made public earlier. Among them, a bit of unusual audio between the capsule and ground control during the 1965 Gemini VII mission.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Houston. Say again, VII.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a bogey at 10 o'clock high.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any more information, estimated distance or size?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looks like hundreds of little particles going by on the left, out about three to four miles.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Also, Apollo 12 astronaut, Alan Bean, reporting from space in 1969: You can see these lights - particles of light, flashes of light... And they're just sailing off... They really haul out of here and press off out of the stars.
There are many pages of comments by curious citizens, some obvious hoaxes and more. But no solid answers about what it all means from government officials present or past.
LEON PANETTA, CIA DIRECTOR UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: I have not seen any firm evidence that there are aliens out there. What the Pentagon is now doing is basically letting the American people make up their own minds.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[22:00:00]
FOREMAN: To be clear, the overwhelming number of these sightings are eventually explained as weather balloons, or aircraft, or mirages, or meteoroids, something that makes sense.
But some still can't be explained, and that is what keeps the interest up. And it's going to stay there, because the Pentagon says, more releases are coming.
Brianna.
KEILAR: We look forward to that.
Tom Foreman, thank you for that report.
And thank you for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
