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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Says Iran Ceasefire On "Life Support" As Talks Collapse; 18 Passengers Monitored For Hantavirus At U.S. Medical Units; Lawsuit Filed To Stop Trump's Reflecting Pool Makeover. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired May 11, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, AUTHOR, "TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER," ASTROPHYSICIST: And one of them is -- I'm going to mangle this quote -- it's, Be at peace with all that stirs in your heart, and learn to love the questions themselves.
COOPER: Neil deGrasse Tyson, thank you.
DEGRASSE TYSON: Anderson, as always, thanks.
COOPER: The new book, "Take Me to Your Leader: Perspectives on Your First Alien Encounter."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: I still don't understand how the universe is endless. What does that even mean?
The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. 1 percent. Those are the chances that the ceasefire with Iran is going to continue to hold, according to President Trump.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
In less than 24 hours, President Trump is going to board Air Force One for what could be one of the most consequential foreign trips of his second term. But as he heads to China in a weakened position in his trade war, it's the actual war in Iran that could actually complicate everything.
A source close to the Iran negotiations is telling CNN that any significant movement will, quote, Depend on the results of the President's visit to Beijing. That's because, Beijing, of course, is by far Iran's most important economic partner. More than 80 percent of the oil shipped from Iran goes to China.
Now, as for the status of those peace talks, this is what the President told reporters on Iran's latest proposal today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Right now, after reading that piece of garbage they sent us -- I didn't even finish reading it -- I said, I'm not going to waste my time reading it. I would say, it's one of the weakest. Right now, it's on life support.
I would say the ceasefire is on massive life support, where the doctor walks in and says, Sir, your loved one has approximately a 1 percent chance of living.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, if you hear that and you're wondering what you missed? It's probably because the President has been saying things like this for weeks now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And they are negotiating, by the way, and they want to make a deal so badly, but they're afraid to say it.
They are begging to work out a deal.
They'd like to make a deal very badly, very badly.
We're very close to making a deal.
I mean, Iran is dying to make a deal. I can only tell you that.
They play games. But let me just tell you, they want to make a deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Sometimes, we hear from the President, saying that Iran has agreed to almost everything.
Then, he is also back to threatening annihilation.
Then we're back to being this close to a deal. And now, in the President's telling, he says that deal is flatlining.
The President has been hinting at a reason that he's been lurching back and forth on this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Is this still a leadership that you believe you can negotiate with--
TRUMP: Yes.
REPORTER: --to ultimately reach a peace deal with?
TRUMP: I think so. Well, you have to. You have the moderates and you have the lunatics. And I think the moderates are more respected. The lunatics want to fight till the end, you know? There will be a very -- it'll be a very quick fight.
But I call them, you have, just like our country, we have lunatics too. We have -- I call them lunatics. I call them stupid people too.
But in Iran, they have the moderates, they're dying to make a deal, and then you have the lunatics, and I guess they're a little bit afraid of the lunatics, but -- and why not?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, the President told Fox News in a phone call that he believes Iran's hardliners are, quote, Going to fold.
And that comes, as Iran's Parliament Speaker, who right now, has been the top negotiator that's been playing out in these talks that have been going on, that's Mohammad Ghalibaf, wrote today, There is no alternative but to accept the rights of the Iranian people as laid out in the 14-point proposal. Any other approach will be completely inconclusive; nothing but one failure after another. He said, The longer they drag their feet, the more American taxpayers will pay for it.
Now, Iran has clearly been paying close attention to Americans' waning support for this war. As now, in the United States, the national average for a gallon of gas has hit $4.52. That is over 50 percent higher than when the war started on February 28th.
As Americans increasingly feel that pain, the President has been arguing this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, a lot of people said, Well, does he have a plan?
Yes, of course they do. I have the best plan ever. I mean, Iran has been defeated militarily, totally. They have a little left. They probably built up during this period of time. We'll knock that out in about a day. But I have a plan. You know? And it is a very simple plan. I don't know why you don't say it like it is. Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon.
They think that, Well, I'll get tired of this, or I'll get bored, or I'll have some pressure. But there's no pressure. There's no pressure at all. We're going to have a complete victory.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: Few people have the firsthand experience to break down the current state of affairs than my lead source tonight. Brett McGurk served as the Middle East adviser to four American presidents and is a CNN Global Affairs Analyst.
And it's great to have you here, Brett.
Because, what the President was asked about today, about why is this proposal garbage? He told CBS that it was just a bad proposal, a stupid proposal.
In those comments in the Oval Office, as I was listening, he seemed to also say that they did not mention that the United States could take the enriched uranium in Iran. He didn't say that they committed to no nuclear weapon, having no nuclear weapon.
What do you make of where things stand tonight?
BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, FORMER MIDDLE EAST & NORTH AFRICA COORDINATOR, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: Kaitlan, it comes down to the Strait of Hormuz, and we're in a stalemate. I mean, that is the bottom line, the stalemate of the Strait. And diplomacy is deadlocked. Iran has asymmetrical advantage. They can basically shoot a drone at any ships, and no ships will go through. And we have our blockade, which is increasing economic pressure on Iran. But that's basically where we are.
And in a stalemate, you have three very difficult options.
Number one, you can endure and have a test of wills, and the economic pressure will compound on Iran. But they don't really care about that, the decision-makers and the Guards. And the economic pressure will compound in the global economy. So, you can endure. Test of wills.
You can concede. President Trump can decide, I'm going to concede to Iran's demands and accept their new sovereignty over the Strait, which Iran is now calling it in their media. I think that'd very bad outcome.
Or, you can fight and try to impose military conditions that allow ships to pass. That is extremely, extremely difficult. I'm certain they're looking at that, but that's a difficult proposition.
That's where we are.
The asterisk, Kaitlan, is the trip to China, and whether Xi Jinping can try to break this open. I doubt it. I also think, that would be a bad outcome because, Xi Jinping would like to be the peace broker. He understands power. He knows President Trump has something that he might want, opening the Strait. It's also in China's interest. But for China to kind of broker something here? First, I think is unlikely. Second, I also don't think that would be a great outcome.
So, stalemate. Very difficult.
COLLINS: I mean, when the war started, and this trip was supposed to be back in April, and then the White House delayed it. I think a lot of people inside the White House thought that this would be in the rearview mirror by now. I mean, obviously that's not the case.
What is this going to look like when the President is in Beijing this week? MCGURK: I think, Kaitlan, it will be a lot of pageantry. I think you'll have a lot of kind of already pre-cooked announcements.
On substance, I'm just -- I'm trying to think through -- step back -- and ideally, what the United States of America should be doing in this situation is going to our comparative advantage, which we have, which China does not have, and that is rallying allies and building a coalition, calling on Iran to open the Strait. That would be a military coalition and a diplomatic coalition. Right now, we're very isolated, and China knows that.
In a normal world, you would try to say to Xi Jinping and the Chinese -- as you said in your opening, Kaitlan, China gets about 15 percent of its oil from Iran. Most of Iran's exports go to China. China has an interest here. So, work with us to get back to that status quo in the Strait.
But I think Xi Jinping would want something in return for that, very transactional.
COLLINS: Yes.
MCGURK: So, it's hard to see that -- I don't see the legwork being done for that outcome in the next 72 hours.
COLLINS: Well, on that front, can I ask you. Because, my colleague, Alayna Treene, is reporting tonight about the President getting frustrated with these negotiations. I mean, you can hear that in his voice there, when he talks about the 1 percent. And she says that something the President's aides say that he's now seriously reconsidering a resumption of major combat operations, more so than he was in recent weeks.
Do you think he'd take a step like that while he's in China?
MCGURK: I doubt it. I think -- I think this will play out over the course of this week. I don't see the urgency. The Iranians could also launch a military operation. They can always launch a missile or drone or something. I also think they'll try to play it cool as this bilateral summit happens.
So no, I think this week, you'll see diplomacy, you'll see the pageantry. But then, we're going to be where we are at the end of this week, we'll be where we were at the end of last week and the week before, and a stalemate in the Strait of Hormuz, compound the economic pressure, and really no way out. And then you come back to those three options. You endure. You can concede to demands. Or, you can try to pursue a military operation to try to put increased pressure on Iran. Very difficult, difficult options, Kaitlan.
I would try to build that international coalition, though. I think that's important. U.N. Security Council Resolution. What Iran is doing in the Strait is totally illegal under international law, by any standard measure. There's a classic international U.N. Security Council issue. But you need the Chinese and the Russians for that because, they can veto. COLLINS: Yes.
[21:10:00]
MCGURK: So, you could see some diplomacy coming together, I hope. I hope we do that. But right now, again, stalemate in the Strait, that's where we are.
COLLINS: All right. Brett McGurk, we will see which of those options the President pursues here. Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
MCGURK: Thank you.
COLLINS: My next source tonight sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Democratic senator, Chris Murphy of Connecticut.
And thank you, sir, for being here.
Because, obviously you heard the President saying this deal is on life support. Do you expect that there will be more military action here?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Well, with all due respect to Brett, this is not a stalemate. This is a disaster for the United States.
Iran is much more powerful today than they were at the beginning of this conflict. Notwithstanding the damage that we have done to Iran, the intelligence reports suggest, and this has been publicly reported, that they still have the majority of their missiles, the majority of their drones. They still have a nuclear program. And any time they want, they can reopen military operations in the Strait of Hormuz.
I don't know what the President is going to do. I'm out of the business of trying to predict what he is doing. But I don't think we have ever seen a more incompetent ham-handed military operation, side by side with the most ham-handed incompetent diplomatic effort, in the history of this country. And we've had some pretty miserable military engagements overseas.
So, I just think this is a disaster for American national security. I think the best prospect is for the President to end the blockade, and declare an end to the war, right now, and hope that some other nations that are smarter and better than the current leadership of the United States will be able to use effective diplomacy to get the Strait reopened.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, if that happens, if he ended the blockade tomorrow, and he ended the war tomorrow, and Iran did still completely control the Strait of Hormuz, I mean, where would that leave the United States?
MURPHY: But he has no path to get the Strait reopened with his double blockade. So, there is no realistic path right now to get the Strait reopened.
Put somebody else in charge. Get the Qataris and the Gulf countries to the table, get the European countries to the table. They will inevitably be twice as competent as the real estate developer talk show host and son-in-law that he has in charge of our military operation today.
The reality is, this is a tested, flawed theory, the idea that you can use military pressure on a country like Iran to get them to bow to your demands. That is Russia's failure in Ukraine. That was the American failure in Vietnam. Over and over again, these nations are pretty stubborn in being willing to endure significant and serious military and economic pain in the face of a foreign invasion.
COLLINS: You know, one thing the President said today was about the gas tax, that he supports suspending the federal gas tax. That would require an act of Congress, of course, to carry that out. Would you -- if that comes up for a vote, how are you going to vote on that?
MURPHY: Well, the quickest way to get gas prices down, Kaitlan, is to end this war. And what the President seems to be preparing for is an endless war. So, he wants to use any other mechanism available to him, to try to allow him to keep the United States engaged in Iran forever. That is a disaster.
So, no, I'm not willing to help the President spend billions of dollars of my taxpayers' money, every single day, on a war that is empowering Iran and bringing the entire world's economy to a standstill. Let's end the war, let's put all of our energy into ending the war, rather than trying to use tax policy to allow the war to continue indefinitely. That's insanity.
COLLINS: OK. So, you'd vote no on that?
MURPHY: I want to end the war. I mean, I think Congress should be debating an end to the war, right now. And I'm not terribly interested in efforts to try to manage the war and help the President continue the war.
COLLINS: OK. I mean, the President's argument today was, was that it would help Americans who are paying so much for gas right now. Obviously, in your state, the average is at four -- of a gallon of gas is $4.62. That's $0.10 higher than the national average. What have you heard from constituents about how much it's costing to fill up their cars right now?
[21:15:00]
MURPHY: Well, it's not just the cost of a gas -- of a gallon of gasoline. It's the cost of their health care.
I mean, we're in the middle of a health care cataclysm in this country because, President Trump's policy is causing 4 million people, this year, to lose their health care. Grocery prices are going to be going up very quickly soon as well because, those prices always follow an increase in transportation prices. And instead of doing anything about it, the President is trying to build his ballroom, asking taxpayers to pay for that, and has no plan to end the war.
I mean, let's just be honest. A temporary suspension of the gas tax? That does not get the price of a gallon of gasoline back to where it was before the war because, those prices are going to continue to go up and up and up no matter whether the gas tax is suspended.
So, we need to keep the pressure on this president to do what the American people want him to do, which is to bring this war to an end. Because, as long as this war goes on, it's not just the price of gas that's going to go up. It's groceries. It's electronics. It's clothing. Everything starts to get pricier as the cost of a barrel of oil continues to go through the roof.
COLLINS: Yes.
Senator Chris Murphy, thank you for joining us tonight.
MURPHY: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. More than a dozen people from the Hantavirus cruise ship are now in the United States and being monitored. One of them has tested positive. The Senior Medical Director of that facility, where most of them are quarantining, will join me, right after this.
And also, tonight, the Trump administration was just hit with another lawsuit over the President's latest renovation project. The Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool.
And also, while states are battling it out over redistricting, the President is floating the idea of adding another state to the Union.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, health officials are closely monitoring 18 passengers who arrived back in the United States today, from the Hantavirus-hit cruise ship. 16 of those passengers arrived earlier this morning, in Nebraska, as you can see here. They were escorted by officials who were dressed in full-body protective gear and masks.
Now, while all of them are asymptomatic, one person tested positive for the virus and was placed in a Biocontainment Unit at the University of Nebraska. Officials say that two other cruise ship passengers were also flown to Atlanta for further assessment and care at Emory University, including at least one person who is experiencing symptoms. At least 11 other people across the seven states are being monitored tonight.
As the President, and the nation's Health Secretary RFK Jr., say they're not worried about this outbreak.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: All I can do is everything that a president can do, which is some -- which is actually somewhat limited, but -- but it seems like it is not easy to spread. In fact, it's, in certain ways, very hard to spread.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We have this under control, and we're not worried about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: This comes as three passengers have died since the outbreak was first identified on that ship just over a week ago.
Officials say that the passengers who got back to the United States today need to be monitored for the next 42 days. But, they say, it's not mandatory for them to be quarantined at that state medical facility the entire time.
Joining me tonight is Dr. Kelly Cawcutt, the Senior Medical Director at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, where a lot of those passengers are being monitored.
And so, it's great to have you tonight.
Can I just ask you, first off, on the fact that they don't have to quarantine, that it's not mandatory. We've seen one of the passengers. He says he's OK. He's feeling OK. He showed off what his quarantine unit looks like. It's almost like a hotel room, almost. But can you explain why it's not mandatory if there is concern that their symptoms could develop later on?
DR. KELLY CAWCUTT, INFECTIOUS DISEASES AND CRITICAL CARE PHYSICIAN, SENIOR MEDICAL DIRECTOR, INFECTION CONTROL & EPIDEMIOLOGY, UNMC: Sure, and that's a great question.
So, the decision of making quarantine mandatory is really something that is done in partnership with our federal partners, regarding those decisions. And a lot of the discussion right now is surrounding how to effectively assess and have these patients in quarantine at our facility, at this point in time, to address immediate risks of exposure, to really understand how high risk those exposures of these passengers from the cruise ship may be, as far as elevating their risk of potentially developing infection.
But should any patients opt to leave at this point, that will be done in continued structured efforts with public health organizations and addressed at each state and home level, similar to what is happening with the other Americans that are in other states currently.
So really, in a structure of, at this point, not forcing it in with a mandate, but really still trying to make sure that we can achieve a safe quarantine, if this can be done in their home locations. And there's more to be determined on those statuses--
COLLINS: Yes.
CAWCUTT: --as we move forward in the coming days.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, you mentioned the federal government. Personally, what do you think? Do you think it should be required? Or, do you think it's OK as it is now?
CAWCUTT: I think the biggest issue is we need to make sure that we can do this safely and immediately. Our organization is able to do that. And safety really does need to be the utmost concern. Does that have to be necessarily for the entirety of the 42 days at our facility? That may not be the necessity that we need to address with that.
[21:25:00]
But again, there are many questions regarding, are we able to do this for the public safely, but also for each of these passengers, and to ensure that do they have a safe place they could quarantine at home. Is that within their capacity? And do they have access to appropriate health care quickly, should they need that if they were to develop symptoms?
COLLINS: Yes.
CAWCUTT: We do know many of these patients have developed symptoms early in the process of their exposure timelines, and I think that does provide a little more assurances to some of the concerns about timing of quarantine and location of quarantine.
COLLINS: For the 16 people who are at that facility, we know -- we noted that one of them is in a biocontainment unit. What's the latest that you can -- you can tell us about how they're doing?
CAWCUTT: So, all of our patients, both in the National Quarantine Unit and in the Biocontainment Unit, are currently asymptomatic. Everyone is being regularly assessed for development of symptoms. The patient in our Biocontainment Unit is being retested for confirmatory testing here in the U.S., to confirm that test is indeed positive.
And so, right now, everyone's doing well. They had the opportunity to get a little bit of rest. They had a very long journey to get here to Nebraska, and are working through the process and getting used to being in our facility and kind of adjusting to that.
COLLINS: Yes.
Dr. Cawcutt, thank you for joining us tonight. I really appreciate your time.
CAWCUTT: Absolutely. Thank you.
COLLINS: Also here with me tonight is the former CDC director, Dr. Tom Frieden.
And thank you, sir, for being here.
You're an infectious disease expert. What is your take, so far, on how this is being handled by public health officials, by the administration, and what we heard from even the Oval Office today?
DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR, PRESIDENT AND CEO, RESOLVE TO SAVE LIVES: Well, first off, I agree, broadly, that this is a cluster of a deadly but difficult-to-catch disease, and I think there's every likelihood it will be well-contained. The current risk to anyone who hasn't had contact with someone who has been on that ship, basically is zero for the U.S.
That being said, let's be frank about what has happened. In any prior outbreak of this nature, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control would have been at the forefront, would have been briefing the public, would have been informing physicians around the U.S. Instead of being the leader in global health, we're on the sidelines.
And the World Health Organization is doing a solid job on a very complicated investigation. It involves multiple countries, hundreds of people, thousands of contacts, really difficult stuff. And if the U.S. were members of the World Health Organization now, we could contribute to them doing a better job, and we would be better-protected here.
So, bottom line is, when it comes to this Hantavirus Andes outbreak, there is no danger to the general public.
When it comes to the dismantling of the CDC, with firing thousands of staff? We still have a part-time Director at CDC. Most of the unit directors are acting or part-time or vacant. We are much less safe. We can't have a safe USA with a weak CDC.
COLLINS: I mean, on that front and, you know, we've heard from the CDC -- the acting CDC director, as you accurately noted, to this criticism about their role.
FRIEDEN: Acting in part-time, I just have to say. He's got two agencies to run.
COLLINS: Yes, that's a good point. Obviously, a lot of responsibility. And everyone has seen how important this is, given we all lived through the COVID pandemic.
They responded to that -- to that criticism, yesterday. Here's what they said, on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY BHATTACHARYA, ACTING CDC DIRECTOR: I think it's -- they didn't see what the CDC has been doing -- CDC has been doing, right? So, we are in touch with the WHO. We're in touch with the international organization -- international health organizations, including the one in Spain, and we have been providing technical assistance to all of those organizations, all the way through.
This is not the COVID, Jake, and we don't want to treat it like COVID. We don't want to cause a public panic over this. We want to treat it with the Hantavirus protocols that we -- that were, again, were successful in containing outbreaks in the past.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What did you hear in that answer?
FRIEDEN: I think that's generally correct. And from everything I hear, Dr. Bhattacharya, given the limitations that he's working under, is doing a good job. But realistically, we're not a member of the World Health Organization anymore. There was an exception granted, I hear, so that the CDC scientists could actually have permission to speak with the World Health Organization. This is no way to protect Americans, to decide on a case-by-case basis, if we're going to talk to people about health risks that could affect people throughout the country.
COLLINS: And what would you say to Dr. Bhattacharya, on this front? What would your advice be in terms of not only briefings that you mentioned.
[21:30:00]
Obviously, the public, you know, has high interest in this because, they maybe are hearing, You don't have to be worried about this, you don't need to panic. But people might remember when they also heard, you know, that there was a low level of concern at the beginning of COVID-19, you know, and have flashbacks to that.
FRIEDEN: There are fantastic scientists still at the CDC, doctors, nurses, pharmacists, PhD in every field you can imagine, the world's experts in Hantavirus and other deadly diseases are there. Let them speak to the American public.
Tell people what we know, when we know it. Be frank, from day one, that we're going to learn more. We don't understand fully how this virus spread on that ship. We don't know everything that we're going to know in a week or a month about Hantavirus. I don't think any of what we learn will change the bottom line that this is not a risk of a pandemic, and that it's not a risk to Americans.
But let the CDC scientists speak to the American public. After all, our taxpayer dollars pay their salaries. And they live for this. This is what they come to work every day for. They care deeply about keeping America safe. That's what they want to be allowed to do.
COLLINS: Dr. Tom Frieden, thank you for joining us with your expertise tonight. I really do appreciate it.
FRIEDEN: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. When it comes to who could be the nominee in 2028, the President just did an unofficial poll between JD Vance and Marco Rubio at the White House tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: OK, let's go. You ready?
Who likes JD Vance?
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Who likes Marco Rubio? (APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: While hosting a dinner in the Rose Garden tonight, President Trump polled the attendees on the 2028 Republican presidential ticket.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Who is it going to be? Is it going to be JD? Is it going to be somebody else? I don't know. Does anybody have -- OK, let's go. You ready?
Who likes JD Vance?
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Who likes Marco Rubio?
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: All right. Sounds like a good ticket. JD is a perfect -- that was a perfect ticket. By the way, I do believe that's a dream team, but these are minor details.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: That does not mean you have my endorsement, under any circumstance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: If only we could see the Vice President's face, in that shot, as he was listening to that.
I should note, this was a dinner held in the Rose Garden tonight. Law enforcement officials were in the audience as -- in the crowd, as well as clearly, top administration officials, ranging from the Vice President, to the FBI director, to the Border Czar, and others. And of course, as the President there is stirring that speculation over 2028, that is very much happening in private.
Right now, the fight out in public is very much focused on 2026. That's because two battles that are playing out right now over redistricting are going before the Supreme Court, as Democrats and Republicans are trying to gain an edge in November's midterm elections.
The Supreme Court's conservative majority today allowed Alabama to use a new voting map that would eliminate a congressional district right now that is held by a black Democrat. The decision hands another victory to Republicans, just a couple days after Virginia's Highest Court struck down a measure there that would have let Democrats in that state redraw a congressional map in their favor. Virginia Democrats have gone to the Supreme Court asking to put that ruling on hold for this year's midterms.
My political and legal sources tonight are:
S.E. Cupp, our CNN Political Commentator.
Harry Enten, who is our Chief Data Analyst.
And Elie Honig, who is a former federal and state prosecutor.
S.E. I just have to get your take on, first off, that moment in the Rose Garden.
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, PODCAST HOST, "OFF THE CUPP": Yes.
COLLINS: We were listening because this was -- it was going -- an event -- bill does him -- thanking law enforcement, showing appreciation. But he turned into that poll there for a moment. And I mean, I was listening to see what the applause sounded like because, it's a real question that Trump has been asking people.
CUPP: It is, and I'm not sure why because, it doesn't matter. He doesn't care who -- he doesn't care who runs. He's going to marginalize whoever it is. It could be Don Jr. and Ivanka, and he'd be like, They're not me, They're not me.
So, I mean, they can have this sort of like performative horse-race guessing game of who the heir apparent is. But Trump is never going to let JD, Marco, anyone, steal his spotlight while he's still in office, and that's what we're going to watch, in real time, when 2028 kicks off.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, and he also made clear, Harry, that he wasn't endorsing either of them yet.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes. Yes.
COLLINS: As he has -- he clearly sees the power that he will have in that race.
ENTEN: Oh, he'll -- he's going to have a ton of power. I mean, we saw it last week, right in Indiana, you know, where they knocked off most of the people who didn't vote for that new congressional map there.
Look, Donald Trump, if he actually does want to make an endorsement. I mean, he is the kingmaker in Republican primaries. You know, as I said last week, he still got the juice. His approval ratings with Republicans still north of 80 percent, with those who identify as magnets, north of 95 percent.
But it seemed to me, as I was listening in, if he was taking it, seemed like JD Vance got a few more applause than Marco Rubio did. Maybe. Maybe not. Which kind of matches with the polling data that we see.
COLLINS: Not only because they're too scared to--
ENTEN: Maybe.
COLLINS: --clap for Marco Rubio.
ENTEN: Maybe.
CUPP: Maybe don't want to clap--
ENTEN: And then--
CUPP: --because Trump didn't tell them.
ENTEN: That's exactly it. But there it is.
CUPP: Yes.
ENTEN: There it is. When they will go, they will follow in line with what Trump says. But at this point in the early data, what we do see is that JD Vance is the favorite. But of course, Trump could change that with one swing of his voice.
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: Elie, I'm not going to ask you to applaud for which one you think will be the Republican nominee.
ENTEN: We'll applaud for you though.
COLLINS: But on the redistricting battle that is playing out. I mean, this is -- there's nothing that people in Washington are watching closer than this fight.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Yes.
COLLINS: What do you make of what the Supreme Court is going to do here?
HONIG: So, first of all, this is total mayhem. And I understand if people are confused because, it seems like every day or twice a day, we're getting rulings that sometimes seem like hard to reconcile with each other.
Let me tell you what I think is going to play out. The Supreme Court is not going to get involved in Virginia. They're not going to upset the Virginia Supreme Court's ruling, and Virginia's 10 to one, heavily gerrymandered map will remain a dead letter.
The reason for that is it's a state Supreme Court of Commonwealth, a state Supreme Court Virginia, applying the nuances of state law. And the problem in Virginia was not that it was too partisan, not that it was too one-sided. It's that Virginia didn't follow their own rules. Now, you can say, those rules are overly technocratic, and they are. But you have to follow your own rules.
So, a rule of thumb to keep in mind here. All this redistricting stuff is generally going to be left to the states, but they have to follow their own rules.
COLLINS: I mean, S.E., what do you make of how this has played out? Because I do think we're seeing an incremental change or some small thing happen every day. But in totality, this is going to be huge for November.
CUPP: Yes, the thing I'd say is, win elections. Win elections. Because, the courts are not coming to save you. They're not coming to save Democrats. Republicans aren't going to self-regulate and be good -- be good actors here. They're going to take what they can get. And this was all sort of enumerated in Project 2025, so we kind of knew that this was going to happen. You got to win those elections.
But in this redistricting orgy, I think it's important to point out that there's a tacit admission here--
ENTEN: Oh my God.
COLLINS: Yes, that took me a second as well there.
CUPP: Oh, I'm sorry.
COLLINS: Continue. Go ahead.
CUPP: And that's what it is. It's this like orgy of redistricting. We're going to be in forever redistricting wars.
But here's the thing that I think is important to point out, if you care about, I don't know, democracy. The Republicans have done what they've done because, they've been allowed to. But it's also a tacit admission that they know they cannot win without rigging it. OK? They're out of ideas. They're not even attempting to win new voters or win back the voters that they've been losing since gaining them in 2024.
So this, the giddiness and the crowing, I'm seeing, from Republicans, about the state of the redistricting math and how it's helping Republicans. What they're not saying out loud, is what I think a lot of voters can see, which is, you had to rig it to make yourself competitive. And I don't even know if this is still going to make them competitive. They might actually be handing Democrats an advantage by really ginning up that base, firing them up to go and vote.
ENTEN: And I think this is the question, right? And we could sort of look at this from, you know, we talk about seats. But let's talk about it from a national popular vote from the House, right?
In order to gain a majority, the estimates were, generally speaking, that, before all this redistricting stuff happened, if it was under the 2024 line, Democrats, simply put, had to win the national House popular vote in order to win a majority.
Now, with all the latest rulings that are going on and what we expect to happen down the road, we think that Democrats need to win by somewhere between three and four points than national House popular vote in order to win a majority. OK? So, the ladder that they have to climb is a little bit higher, right? It's like Donkey Kong climbing that ladder in the old games, right?
But here's the thing, to S.E.'s point, which is, if you look at the polling, you look at the aggregate of polling, Democrats still have a six-point advantage, nationally, on average, so they are able to eclipse that threshold.
And now what we also see is that Democrats are really enthusiastic to turn out for midterm elections. We've seen them in the special elections. And my guess is when they are told, Hey, and they believe that these maps are, to yours -- your words, Rigged? That will only juice up that base even more and make that ladder easier to climb.
HONIG: And if I can. The shame of this all is we are now in the gerrymandering, I'll say, apocalypse. Not probably -- won't use--
ENTEN: Have your term--
CUPP: It's an orgy. It's orgy. But it's fine.
HONIG: --S.E.
ENTEN: Lot of words.
HONIG: But look, there's no question that Donald Trump started this, when he told Texas, mid-district -- I'll be honest, when he first did that, I said, Oh, you can't redistrict. It's, We're in the middle of a decade.
You can.
COLLINS: Here we are.
HONIG: Turns out, we all learn. And that puts Democratic-leaning states in the position of having to retaliate. And so, while the Virginia gerrymander, for example, or the California gerrymander, are extreme, it's like if you're playing a baseball game, and the other team is using aluminum bats, you're foolish if you go to play with wood bats, right?
And so, it's led to all of the worst-case-possible scenarios, and we're taking states that had carefully measured bipartisan commissions that would handle gerrymander, not that it was perfect, and they're throwing them out the window now because, it's outright warfare.
COLLINS: Yes.
Elie, you're the attorney at the table. Can I get your take on some reporting that we've confirmed here at CNN with our colleagues? The Wall Street Journal reported, earlier tonight, that the acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, who's obviously been taking the role of Pam Bondi since she was fired, that the President gave him a stack of news articles that he and other senior officials thought threatened national security, gave them to Blanche, and they had a Sticky Note on them that said the word, Treason.
[21:45:00]
The Wall Street Journal now says they've gotten subpoenas for the records of their reporters. We're told, that's going after the people who leaked to those reporters, this information.
But what do you make of how this transpired?
HONIG: DOJ is treading on very dangerous ground here with respect to the First Amendment, right?
Technically, can they subpoena reporters for their sources? I'm sure reporters would fight this. Some reporters, over history, have chosen to go to jail rather than disclose this. But technically, can they issue a subpoena and say, Reporter, I want your sources? Probably.
But for decades, DOJ has been incredibly careful about this. This is Republican. This is Democratic. If you look at the Justice Manual there are -- you can only do that, you can only subpoena sources, if it's an immediate national emergency in the narrowest of circumstances. This DOJ seems to be approaching it differently. This is a real threat to the First Amendment.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, I remember when President Biden, that he had the DOJ change its policy--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --because they were trying to get the records of people like--
HONIG: Barbara Starr.
COLLINS: --Barbara Starr and our colleagues.
HONIG: I remember that.
COLLINS: Elie Honig.
S.E. Cupp.
Harry, I'm sorry that you had to blush tonight.
ENTEN: Oh my. A lot of big words and a lot of different meanings.
COLLINS: Oh boy.
Thank you all for being here. Up next. My next source, you're going to want to hear from him. He is trying to stop President Trump's renovation of the Lincoln Reflecting Pool. Despite the roadblocks to his many renovation projects, right now, the President is going to keep moving forward, he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Normally I would have said it was a (bleep).
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: But I don't want to say that.
The columns were falling down. The plaster was falling off. You made a speech, and I was saying, Couldn't you fix up the paint job up there, you know? And this place is tippy-top now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We'll be opening up the reflective pond. It's called the reflective pond.
$350 million without cost overruns and four years, versus $3 million and it'll be finished this week.
It's going to be beautiful, beautiful color. I picked American Flag. See the blue? I picked American Flag. It was called American Flag Blue.
So this is 1922 it was built and it was broken for most of the time.
The people that worked for me recommended it. Then they recommend we do it this way. But I recommended it to them because, I'm very good at construction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was President Trump tonight, arguing that his renovation of the Lincoln Reflecting Pool will cost $3 million. The public website that tracks government contracts actually lists the cost for the revamp at $13.1 million. Last week, we had heard the President say it would cost $1.8 million. That's a lot of changing numbers here.
And this comes, as a non-profit group tonight is asking a federal judge to stop work on it, arguing that the administration is breaking the law when it's -- with its renovation.
This is just the latest in a string of construction projects we've seen the President be personally invested in, in directing, so much that last week, he took a drive down the Lincoln Reflecting Pool to check it out and to see the progress of that new blue that is coding the pool's basin.
He's also been posting about it online. There was this AI-generated image, showing the President, and a few of his top officials, taking a dip. The post made its way into the lawsuit, which now calls the makeover, a desecration, and argues that key federal agencies should have oversight or at least input.
My next source is the founder of the group behind that lawsuit. The Cultural Landscape Foundation's CEO, Charles Birnbaum.
And it's great to have you here, sir.
On this $13.1 million price tag. Does that seem reasonable in your view?
CHARLES A. BIRNBAUM, FOUNDING PRESIDENT & CEO, THE CULTURAL LANDSCAPE FOUNDATION, SUING TO HALT TRUMP'S CHANGES TO LINCOLN MEMORIAL REFLECTING POOL: Well, I think it's hard to sort of guess at the numbers when we don't really know what's in the proposals.
There has been no engagement of organizations in the public, under the Historic Preservation Act of 1966. This is a National Register- designated property. It's under the umbrella of the National Park Service, and they're mandated by law to undertake a federal review process as a designated property.
That process has not happened. There's been no review by the CFA, the National Capital Planning Commission, or the State Historic Preservation Office. So, it's hard to respond to numbers or even proposals when we have no information, and the public has not been invited to take a seat at the table in what should be a very public review process.
COLLINS: You know, obviously, you're taking legal action here. It hasn't stopped the President so far, at least when it comes to the ballroom and what happened with the East Wing.
Are you hopeful, this time will be different?
A. BIRNBAUM: You know, Kaitlan, I don't know. I can only be optimistic.
And you're right. I mean, the approach has seemed to be to do the work and then ask questions later. We've seen this with the dumping in East Potomac Park, with the demolition of the East Wing.
The hope is that this project, which is so high profile and iconic, which is now going to be before a judge, will be afforded the opportunity to say, Wait a minute, people, we need to do the absolute process, which is do with Section 106 under the Federal Preservation Laws.
COLLINS: There's a comment from the Interior Department, which is, you know, the President mentioned Doug Burgum tonight, overseeing this. They said that the blue color is going to, quote, Enhance the visitors' experience. We saw John Fetterman, Democratic senator of Pennsylvania, saying that the pool was in serious disrepair.
Do you believe that some renovations are needed?
A. BIRNBAUM: Well, again, I mean, there was a massive project done 15 years ago. We're being asked to take the President by his word that this project had all of these issues. There have been no drawings or studies made available, which has always been the case in the past.
[21:55:00]
And this is also not a design contest or an esthetic value judgment. This is a hallowed ground in a masterwork of landscape architecture and planning, by the architect bacon and the landscape architect, Frederick Law Olmsted Jr., who I should mention, his work has also been destroyed at the White House grounds with the demolition of the East Wing.
So, these plans are all fast and loose, and we don't have the information to actually make value judgments. So, I'm not here to talk about whether the blue that is the color of swimming pool in a particular resort is the right color blue.
The reality is, under Historic Preservation Law, that what was character-defining is the fact that it was this gray tone. And it read as a continuous landscape. It was highly reflective, and it supported the, if you will, the historic conversation between these two great monuments that we, as visitors, got to experience as we moved through that landscape. That will change. And to what extent? We don't know because, we don't have all the information.
COLLINS: Charles Birnbaum, we will obviously be following this lawsuit closely.
Thank you for joining us here tonight.
A. BIRNBAUM: Thank you for having me, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. We have a special programming note about a guest that we are having on the show tomorrow night. You'll want to stay tuned for that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: Tomorrow night, here on THE SOURCE, former FBI Director, James Comey, will join me live, at 09:00 p.m. Eastern. Of course, we'll get his reaction to the Trump Justice Department indicting him for a second time in less than a year. You can watch that interview, live here tomorrow, 09:00 p.m. Eastern, on CNN. We'll see you then.
Thanks for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
