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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump: Xi Pledged Not To Provide Military Equipment To Iran; Xi Warns Trump: Mishandling Taiwan Could Spark "Conflict"; Top Business Leaders Join Trump In China For Trade Talks. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired May 14, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --you can listen to more of my conversation with Isaiah Thomas. It's wherever you get your podcasts, or at CNN.com/AllThereIs. It's really an awesome interview. He's -- I'm not a big sports guy. But he is incredible.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. President Trump's final meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping will be underway soon. What will he walk away with and what is he returning to in the United States?
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
As we come on the air tonight, it is Friday morning in Beijing, where the final talks between President Trump and China's leader Xi Jinping will get underway soon.
While yes, there has been pomp and pageantry in this visit, if their first sit-down was any indication, things potentially could get tense.
President Xi was quick to draw a red line when it comes to the sensitive topic of Taiwan. And according to Chinese state media, Xi told President Trump that Taiwan is, quote, the most important issue in China-U.S. relations, and warned that it could create a, quote, highly dangerous situation if mishandled.
Now, the United States has been walking a delicate balance for years, offering support to Taiwan, while also remaining circumspect about what the United States would do, if China were to seize the democratic self-governing island of 23 million people.
At least in public, President Trump notably avoided that topic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Did you talk about Taiwan, Mr. President?
XI JINPING, PRESIDENT OF THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA: (FOREIGN LANGUAGE). Thank you.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Thank you. Thank you very much.
REPORTER: Mr. President, did you talk about Taiwan?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, as you know, when you watch the President in the Oval Office with world leaders, he often answers shouted questions from reporters. He notably did not there, on Taiwan.
But after that meeting happened, after that -- in front of the cameras, we did see President Trump posting on social media to explain what he said was President Xi's description of America as a nation in decline.
Now, Xi did not directly use that phrase, based on what we've seen.
But in public, Trump wrote, When President Xi very elegantly referred to the United States as perhaps being a declining nation, he was referring to the tremendous damage we suffered during the four years of Sleepy Joe Biden and the Biden Administration, and on that score, he was 100 percent correct.
Trump added, quote, "Two years ago, we were, in fact, a Nation in decline. On that, I fully agree with President Xi."
Now, you wouldn't know the President was unhappy with what he had heard, as he lavished praise on the Chinese leader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: We've had a fantastic relationship.
The job you've done. You're a great leader, I say it to everybody, you're a great leader.
It's an honor to be your friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, as for what he's preparing to leave Beijing with, the President says that China has committed to purchasing 200 Boeing jets. Though, given they have made pledges that they have not followed through on before, under many presidents, it's worth waiting to see if that actually happens and comes to fruition.
And it also happens to be seen if they stick to their word on promising, as the President says, not to provide military equipment during the war with Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: The issue, and you've been asked about it, and you've spoken about it, and that is China's support of Iran. How big a discussion was that today?
D. TRUMP: We discussed it. I mean, when you say support. They're not fighting a war with us or anything.
HANNITY: No.
D. TRUMP: No -- he said he's not going to give military equipment. That's a big statement. He said that today. That's a big statement. Said that strongly. But at the same time, he said, you know, they buy a lot of their oil there, and We'd like to keep doing that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: As you heard from the President there on what happened behind closed doors. He made no secret that during this, he wanted to talk to President Xi about the Strait of Hormuz, which tonight remains mostly at a standstill.
It still remains to be seen what happens. But so far, there has not been a public commitment from China to use its economic leverage, that the President just mentioned there, with Iran, to help bring this war to an end.
But as the President is preparing to return to the United States following his final meeting with the Chinese leader, he's going to be returning to some of the same questions that many of his Republican colleagues have been facing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BUDDY CARTER (R-GA): Look, it's just not going to last forever, and gas prices are going to go back down.
SEN. BERNIE MORENO (R-OH): The gas price situation is tough, but I don't -- think that's going to be resolved in the next few weeks.
REP. TROY NEHLS (R-TX): The fact of that matter is, is everybody relax. Fuel prices will go down. Iran is going to end very, very soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: My first source tonight is the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Republican Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio.
And thank you, sir, for being here.
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): You bet. Good to be with you.
COLLINS: You heard the questions that your colleagues have been facing on this. I'm sure you face some of them from the Capitol Hill press corps.
JORDAN: Yes.
COLLINS: You were critical when gas was $3.07 when President Biden was in office. If you thought that was bad, what is $4.53? JORDAN: Well, we all want gas prices to go down, Kaitlan. But we also are concerned about Iran and this regime that's done so much evil and harm around the world, to Americans, to Israelis, to other people, to their own people, for goodness sakes, for 47 years. You can't have that regime getting a nuclear weapon. The President has been clear about that. Secretary of State Rubio has been clear about that.
So, the President is concerned about the long-term safety of this great country and the citizens who live here. That's what he's focused on. And when you're focused on that, you cannot allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon. That is the fundamental objective here. And yes, we want the gas prices to come down, but we don't want this country, this regime, to have a nuclear capability.
COLLINS: So, is the argument that if gas prices are high, it's OK, as long as it's for the right reason, in your view?
JORDAN: No, the argument is, do you -- how is that good for America, for Israel, for the world, how is that good for anyone, if this regime -- understand how bad they are, Kaitlan.
In Iran, wrestling is a big sport. They took this 19-year-old junior champion, one of their star, up and coming athletes, and because he had protested against the regime, this evil regime that's done all this bad stuff, they hung this guy publicly. That's how bad they are.
I think the American people understand, we don't want that regime. President Trump has been clear, we're not going to let that regime get a nuclear weapon. So, yes, we want gas prices to come down, but we also don't want this -- this evil country and the leadership there to have nuclear capability, as I said before.
COLLINS: This is what you said in 2022, when gas prices in your home state of Ohio were actually a little bit lower than they are today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JORDAN: These elites who live here in Washington don't seem to get the fact that folks in like West Central Ohio, North Central Ohio, that I get to represent, where you make things, grow things, move things, $5 gas kills the economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, what happens to the economy if we hit $5 a gallon now?
JORDAN: Well, it's not good. We'd like it to come down. But, you know, we're also seeing some good signs. In the month of April, what, we have 115,000 job growth in the economy. Those are some -- there's some good signs out there. We all want prices to come down. We all want things to be more affordable, particularly for young couples who are buying that first home, got a young family. We all want that to happen.
But we don't want this country, and what they've done over 47 years, the people they've killed, the evil they've been a part of, we don't want them getting a nuclear weapon.
So, now -- and when Biden was driving up the gas prices, it was because of stupid regulation and taxes and everything else and spending. It wasn't to prevent the regime. In fact, they were cozying up to Iran. They were giving them American tax dollars to them. They were doing all kinds of stupid deals.
Thank goodness President Trump got us out of that those -- that deal and is focused on what's good for the long-term security and safety of the planet. Not just Americans, but the entire planet. Because, everyone knows this regime is, even China knows, this regime is bad, and that's why they've told the President that they want to help us stop this Iran from getting a nuclear weapon.
COLLINS: I mean, China does a lot of business with Iran.
But to the point. I mean, it sounds like you're saying, Gas prices went up under Biden, and I criticized it then because, I didn't like why they were going up.
I mean, they're going up a lot under this president that you supported, but you're just saying, It's for the right reason, in your view.
JORDAN: Yes, and it's for a reason that he told the American people he was going to do. One thing I know about this president, unlike so many other people in elective office, when this President says something, he does what he said. He said he would cut taxes, he did. He said he would secure the border. He did. He said he would make sure Iran didn't get a nuclear weapon, and he's going about doing that. And thank goodness he's got the courage and the toughness--
COLLINS: But what about--
JORDAN: --and the willingness to do what he said, when most of the other president -- all the other presidents, for 47 years, wouldn't do it, but this guy will.
COLLINS: What about his promise in 2024 that if he was reelected, gas would be under $2 a gallon because of his policies?
JORDAN: Well, gas prices were coming down until we had to deal with this situation. But, you know, that's -- that's life, that's dealing with world, and the world we live in.
I think the country gets the fundamental fact, and I know I understand this, President Trump makes decisions that are in the best interest of our nation. 250 years, greatest country in history. He makes decisions that are going to help our country and the long-term security and safety of the people.
[21:10:00]
He has the pro -- and I think you want a commander-in-chief like that. You want a commander-in-chief who's willing to do tough things that he knows are good for us, all of us, all of your viewers, everyone in this country, and frankly, everyone around the world, it is good if Iran doesn't get a nuclear weapon.
COLLINS: But if someone's listening to you and they were paying $2.98 a gallon of gas before the war started, and now they're paying $4.53. I mean, saying, That's life, might not make them feel better--
JORDAN: I didn't -- those are -- those are your words.
COLLINS: --when they're filling up their car.
JORDAN: Those are your words, not mine. I'm saying, this is the--
COLLINS: No, you said, That's life, just now.
JORDAN: --this is the situation. This is the situation. They were pursuing a nuclear weapon. They wanted to get there. President Trump said, I'm not going to do that. He ran on that. And he's taken the appropriate action that I think you want your commander-in-chief to take for the security and safety of America.
COLLINS: But he also ran on bringing gas prices to under $2 a gallon. I mean--
JORDAN: Well, hopefully -- hopefully we'll -- hopefully we'll get--
COLLINS: --are voters supposed to look at that and say which one is--
JORDAN: --hopefully we'll get there soon. I want -- I want gas prices low too. I mean, we all want gas prices low. Who doesn't for goodness sake? But we also don't want Iran to get a nuclear weapon.
And I think the country is smart. They understand that decisions have to be made. Let's focus on getting those gas prices down as quickly and as fast as we can. But let's also focus on making sure that this regime who was willing to hang a 19-year-old star athlete in their country, willing to do that, let's make sure they don't have a nuclear weapon.
COLLINS: You said, That's life. I was just quoting what you said a second ago. Those were not my words. Those were your words.
JORDAN: No, I'm not saying, That's life, like--
COLLINS: I just--
JORDAN: I'm saying, life sometimes throws things at you that you didn't anticipate, and you have to deal with it, and you want a commander-in-chief who will deal with it and deal with it in a way that is focused on the safety of the people he was elected to serve and protect.
COLLINS: The President was asked about this, as he was departing the White House for China, and this is what he told reporters about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, to what extent are Americans' financial situation motivating you to make a deal?
D. TRUMP: Not even a little bit. The only thing that matters, when I'm talking about Iran, they can't have a nuclear weapon. I don't think about Americans' financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one thing. We cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon. That's all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Even if you agree with the war, and you clearly do, is he not minimizing what Americans are feeling because of the war?
JORDAN: No, come on, Kaitlan, this is a president who did the largest tax cut in American history, letting American families keep more of their money. Of course, he cares about them having the revenue and the sources and affordability concerns. This is the President who said we should suspend the gas tax to help families deal with the price they're paying for fuel at the pump today. So of course, he cares about that, just like I care about, just like we all care about that.
But he also cares about making sure this country, long-term, is safe. And again, I've said it several times, I think that's what you want in a president, that's what you want in a commander-in-chief, that's what you want in your leader as the chief executive of the executive branch of our government, that's what you want.
So, I think you can be focused on all that, try to help on all that. But you have to deal with this threat that is imminent, according to the Secretary of State, according to the President. They were close to getting this capability, and that's why he took the action he did.
COLLINS: Is, in your view, is the cost of a gallon of gas reflective on the President's job performance?
JORDAN: No, the President is, I think he's done a great job. He's done what he's said. As I said before, he's cut taxes, he's secured the border, did it in record time on securing the border. Things we all ran on that the American people elected us to do, we've been able to do that.
And like I've said, now, we want the gas prices to come down, certainly. But we also have to deal with this threat that is very real, that is as real as it gets. These people are as dangerous as it gets. 47 years, they've killed Americans, they've killed Israelis, they've killed others, they've killed thousands of their own people, including their star athlete.
COLLINS: Well I ask--
JORDAN: So, that's the situation we're in. President Trump understands we have to address that.
COLLINS: But do you think Americans feel that way? I mean, you look at CNN polling, 70 percent of Americans say that he's doing a bad job on the economy. That is rare for President Trump. I don't even think he got below 50 percent even during COVID in his first term. I mean, when was the last time 70 percent of Americans agreed on anything?
JORDAN: I think -- I think most Republicans think President Trump's doing a good job. I've seen polling. I don't trust all the polling you see. All I know is, I think -- I think Americans appreciate leaders who actually do what they said they were going to do. And President Trump does that--
COLLINS: But he said he was going to bring prices down for Americans.
JORDAN: --better than any elected official I've ever seen in my lifetime.
COLLINS: And inflation is up, and gas is up.
JORDAN: And he's work -- and he's working on that, Kaitlan. And look, let's hope they do come down. We're working on bringing them down. There's things we can do. Earlier this week, he proposed a moratorium on the -- or scaling back the gas tax for a while, for some -- some timeframe. I'm all for looking at those kind of -- those kind of things as well. But let's focus on the objective here.
[21:15:00]
COLLINS: But you're saying that Americans like presidents who keep their promises. You were just questioning a witness about this today, someone who said one thing on the campaign and did something when in office. The President said he'd bring down inflation, and gas prices would be under $2 a gallon. Neither of those things are close to being true right now, as we talk.
JORDAN: Well, his term is not up. He's going to keep working on that, and hopefully we'll have them down before the midterm.
COLLINS: But I don't think he said, I'll do it by the end of my term. He said, On day one, in the first six months. I mean, he put timelines.
JORDAN: Well, when they come down, we'll come -- we'll come back down -- we'll come back -- when prices come down, we'll come back and talk about it.
But the focus right now is making sure this -- this regime, doesn't have the capability to do the evil that you could do with a nuclear weapon. So, that is -- that's what -- that's what he's trying to prevent, that's what he's going to stop, and that's what he told us he was going to do.
COLLINS: You mentioned the midterm elections. And the reason I'm asking a lot of these questions is not just because, we are hearing complaints all the time from people about gas prices and seeing it in the polling. You meant -- the midterms, people will be voting potentially, thinking of this issue. And control of the House is up.
JORDAN: Yes.
COLLINS: Chairman, as you very well know, control of the House. You're currently pushing for a bill in Congress that would ban sanctuary city policies.
JORDAN: Yes.
COLLINS: Have you gotten a commitment from Speaker Mike Johnson to bring that to the floor for a vote?
JORDAN: I do think it's coming to the floor soon. We were working with a couple members who had a few concerns. The bill came out of our committee strong, every Republican supported in our committee.
I think it'll be on the floor soon. I think it'll pass. Hopefully it'll pass the Senate, and we know President Trump will sign it because, this is one of the dumbest policies I've ever seen. You got local politicians telling local law enforcement not to work with federal law enforcement when it comes to enforcing federal law. Literally stupid.
And the result of that is illegal migrants who commit another crime are then released and they do terrible things, as we saw in the hearing today, where Cheryl Minter talked about how her daughter was killed because, the prosecutor took into account the immigration consequences, versus just charging this guy who had 40 prior run-ins with the -- with the government and with law enforcement, and let him out, and he killed -- he killed Stephanie Minter.
COLLINS: But I mean, given how important this is to you, and the fact that we don't know what's going to happen in November, has Speaker Mike Johnson committed to bringing it for a vote before then?
JORDAN: I think it's coming soon. I haven't talked to the Speaker specifically about it. We've been talking with the Leader's office. Majority Leader is the guy who schedules what goes on the floor. So, we've been talking with Leader Scalise.
I think it's coming soon because, again, it had strong support in our committee. I think it has strong support across the Republican Party. Who knows? We might even get some Democrats who won't act crazy, and might vote for it is as well.
COLLINS: You are obviously well-known in your time in these hearings with the gavel. You talked about Hunter Biden a lot when President Biden was in office. Obviously, there were major questions about his role.
Eric Trump right now is with his dad in China. He does not have a position in the federal government, as you know.
And this is what you've said in the past about family members joining on state visits.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JORDAN: The Vice President's son get a billion dollars from a -- from a bank, a subsidiary of the Bank of China. How does he get that deal just a couple weeks after he flies on Air Force Two to China?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you think it's fair for Eric Trump to be on this trip with his--
JORDAN: Yes, I think it's entire -- I think it's--
COLLINS: --with his father, the President?
JORDAN: Yes, I think it's -- I think it's certainly fine for people to travel with the presidents on a state visit like this. I think that happens all the time.
My big concern with Hunter Biden was the special deal he got with Burisma. And you don't have to take my words for it. Take his own. He said he got the job because of his dad being vice president. He said he didn't really deserve that job, and he was paid like a million dollars a year to sit on the board of Burisma, which we know the prosecutor over there didn't go after Burisma after Joe Biden talked to them about this situation where his son was on the board. That was my big concern.
So, I don't have a problem at all with the first family traveling with the President of the United States.
COLLINS: Even despite his business ventures when it comes to World Liberty Financial and The Trump Organization--
JORDAN: I don't have--
COLLINS: --you don't have any issues with that?
JORDAN: I don't have any issues at all.
COLLINS: Congressman Jim Jordan, thank you for coming on tonight. Appreciate your time, and look forward to having you back.
JORDAN: You bet. Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. We also have a Democratic senator joining us here, someone who has urged the President to approve a new arms sale to Taiwan. What are the chances of that after that warning that you heard from Xi Jinping?
Plus Elon Musk is with President Trump as well in Beijing, and a host of business executives. The perfect person to talk to you about this? Kara Swisher is here.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: The issue of Taiwan is unchanged as of today, and as of the meeting that we had here today. It was raised. They always raise it on their side. We always make clear our position. And we move on to the other topics. We know where they stand, and I think they know where we stand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, says the U.S. policy on Taiwan remains unchanged, following a meeting between President Trump and his Chinese counterpart in Beijing.
According to Chinese state media, Xi raised this topic and issued a warning about what's at stake with the United States over Taiwan, the democratic self-governing island that China has vowed to eventually unify with the Chinese mainland. And by unify, they mean by force, if necessary. He said, quote, If Taiwan is not handled properly, the two countries may clash or even come into conflict, pushing the China-U.S. relationship into a very dangerous situation.
My source tonight is Democratic Senator Andy Kim of New Jersey, who serves on the Homeland Security Committee, and is urging the President to sell more weapons to Taiwan.
And thank you, Senator, for being here.
Because, I wonder how you heard President Xi's warning about the United States' role in between this relationship between China and Taiwan.
[21:25:00]
SEN. ANDY KIM (D-NJ): Well, President Xi sees an opportunity with President Trump. Because of how erratic Trump is. Because of how Trump has de-prioritized Asia-Pacific. He has deprioritized the region. He wrote a national security strategy that talked about America as if we are a Western Hemisphere power. He is moving American military assets out from the Indo-Pacific into the Middle East, as America is now bogged down in another war in the Middle East. So, Xi sees an opportunity here.
And Trump did change some of our policy by explicitly saying that he's going to talk to Xi about Taiwan arms deals, which is why they -- which is, first of all, a break from how Presidents of both parties have acted in the past. Which is why, a bipartisan group of senators wrote a letter to this administration, urging this administration to follow through on arms sales to Taiwan that was supposed to happen, but Trump has not followed through on. So, we are concerned, in a bipartisan way about how Trump is approaching this.
COLLINS: Have you heard back from the administration on that letter?
KIM: We have not, and I think that that is indicative of just what we're continuing to see, which is this administration continuing to just do what they want to do, not engaging with Congress, whether it's about the war in Iran, which we are now on day 75 or any other actions. And when I see this summit in China, Trump is approaching this from a point of such weakness, both being bogged down in Iran. I mean, he is literally asking President Xi to help him fix a problem that Trump himself started with the Strait of Hormuz.
So, the fact that we are going there and literally begging Xi to be able to have help on something that Trump is the cause of the problem shows just how much weakness we are in right now, and that is just a place that I think really doesn't serve the American people--
COLLINS: Well--
KIM: --well at all when they're struggling so much with gas prices.
COLLINS: The President said tonight that in private, Xi committed to not providing weapons to Iran. If that's accurate and they don't, do you think that that's an achievement by this President in getting Xi to say that to him?
KIM: Well, look, President Xi has also said he's not going to send weapons to Russia. Has that actually happened? No. So, if President Trump trusts President Xi on that front, I think we're in an even deeper level of problem here.
But the fact that we are seeing this summit unfolding. And what is it that the American people are going to get? I seem to get a good sense of what Elon Musk is going to get. All these different CEOs, these are the same CEOs that sat next to Donald Trump during his inauguration. Again, golden age for them, golden age for the CEOs, for the billionaires in this country.
But what about the American people right now that have had to pay $40 billion more in gas and diesel since the start of this war? What's in it for the rest of us? And I think it's very clear, with all the pomp, circumstance and the pageantry there, that Trump is certainly excited about his own legacy on this front and his own ego. But the rest of us are not getting anything out of this.
COLLINS: I was just asking your Republican colleague over in the House, Jim Jordan, about gas prices and what you just noted there, not just what people are using, also diesel as well.
And he said, We all want gas prices to go down, but we are also concerned about Iran and this regime that has done so much evil and harm around the world.
What's your -- what's your response to that argument?
KIM: Well, then the President should have come before Congress, should have come before the American people, and made a case that this war is what we need to be focused on.
There are a lot of dangers. I don't discount the dangers of Iran. I also have to say, you know, Look, we have a lot of dangers from North Korea. Does that mean that Trump has the right to start a war with North Korea without the American people's approval? There's a lot of damage and danger, a lot of bad actors that are out there.
But when we are putting our service members into harm's way, when we're asking the American people to cover the bill, when they are struggling right now with paying their own bills? That is something that this President is deeply out of line with.
And I just -- pains me to see Republican leadership in Congress just continue to turn a blind eye to the Constitution, just to be able to continue to pledge loyalty to a president that is so focused just on himself, profiteering off of the Oval Office, his family is enriching themselves, pushing forward this agenda for the billionaires and leaving the rest of us with nothing.
COLLINS: Senator Andy Kim, we'll obviously be following this entire trip very closely as the President is preparing to leave. Thank you for joining us tonight.
KIM: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. Speaking of all the CEOs that are accompanying the President to China. Elon Musk is one of them. It's come a long way in that relationship between the two of them, since when he left the White House. Why Musk is actually there in China, with the President. And my source, Kara Swisher, will weigh in on all of it, next.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Nearly a year ago, President Trump and Elon Musk's relationship was basically in tatters, as Musk was posting about the President appearing in the Epstein files, which we didn't know about at the time, also calling for a third Trump impeachment. That was when the President responded by saying that Elon Musk had, quote, "Lost his mind."
[21:35:00]
Well, now the two of them are back together in Beijing tonight, as Elon Musk was seen taking in the sights, twirling around with his phone as he waited for the President, alongside of America's other top CEOs. He was also seen in that photo-op with Apple Cook -- Apple's CEO, Tim Cook, as he also walked around with his 6-year-old son at those high-level meetings that have been playing out in Beijing.
Joining me now to talk about all of this is the tech journalist, and CNN contributor, Kara Swisher.
And Kara, Just first off, what's your view been of this visit, and the trillions of dollars of net worth that are--
KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST, "ON WITH KARA SWISHER" & "PIVOT", CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
COLLINS: --accompanying President Trump. SWISHER: Well, he took 17 CEOs and just three diplomats on the plane. I mean, it's an interesting -- it feels like a Chamber of Commerce meeting to try to drum up business for the United States, when there's some very serious issues, as you just noted earlier, about Taiwan and some other things that Xi was there in a very strategic way. This looks -- felt more like you want to buy some planes. But that's OK there. That's one way to do diplomacy, I suppose.
And Elon being there. You know, breaking up is hard to do, I guess. And so, they're back together because, the money and the convenience and the things Elon wants, especially as he moves into this next period, where he's going to take SpaceX public and stuff like that. So, he wants to cooperate with the -- with the current administration.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, and China is the most important market outside the United States for Tesla.
SWISHER: Yes, for him, for sure.
COLLINS: He's got a big factory there.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: Makes half of their cars.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: Do you think that is what has played a role in the mending of this relationship between the two of them? Because he wants to be able to go with the President on trips such as this?
SWISHER: Well, everything is transactional with these people. Every one of them on that plane was transactional, whether it was the Nvidia CEO, or Tim Cook, or anyone else. This is -- these are people with different things they want from the President and from China.
In case of Apple. They have extensive consumers. They accept them -- amounts of consumers and create -- creating stuff there. Obviously, Nvidia wants to sell these chips into China. And they used to have a pretty big market share. Now it's very low, and they want to get back in there. Elon has all manner of different things he wants. And so -- and Boeing, of course, selling jets to China and things like that.
And so, they want to be there, and that makes sense for them to be there from a financial point of view. I'm not sure if that -- you know, it's -- someone called it summitry. I'm not sure anything got done. But maybe we'll have another summit, and that's always a good thing to keep talking with China because, we need to.
And one of the things that disappointed me is they didn't have a talk on the kind of things we want to do around AI, the way we did maybe around nuclear weapons. But that was a -- that was a group of cheer -- AI cheerleaders, so you're not going to have anything resembling discussions about safety or anything else.
COLLINS: It also -- I mean, it's a reminder of the stark contrast in the first Trump term and how the business community treated the President then, and what we're seeing now. I mean, so many people were critical of that inauguration seating chart.
SWISHER: Sort of, yes.
COLLINS: But this is kind of--
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: --evidence of probably a big driving factor for that so they could go on trips like this.
SWISHER: Well -- well, as I said, it's a coin-operated presidency, and they figured out, very quickly, that you put money in and you get stuff out, like Andreessen Horowitz spending the most money towards the midterms.
They understand, it's a very small amount of money to spend, a $115 million because, they get so much more, they get billions and billions out of it. And so, they've sort of figured out, it's a cheap way to get what you want, and that's what they're doing. And they will -- they will continue to do that because, shareholders, as I've said over and over again, are their biggest goal. And that's fine, I suppose. That's what they're doing. But it's pretty explicit.
COLLINS: Well, you mentioned Nvidia. And tonight, Reuters is reporting that the United States has cleared 10 Chinese firms to buy their second most powerful AI chip, which obviously could be a huge opportunity to make money.
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: But I mean, even Republicans in Washington--
SWISHER: Sure is.
COLLINS: --have raised concerns about which Chinese companies are getting access to what--
SWISHER: Right.
COLLINS: --given the competition that's playing out here.
SWISHER: Yes, I recall, it was Donald Trump who said that, and was absolutely correct. It's the one thing I agreed with him on in the first term was, you know, the dangers of China getting our most important technology. And their argument is they're going to build it themselves, and they sure are, but we're still ahead here.
And you shouldn't, you know there's -- I've heard the arguments on the other side, and it's just he wants to get in these markets, and so Jensen Huang is going to do whatever he can to be very close to Trump, including racing up to Alaska to get on the -- to get on the plane with him.
COLLINS: Yes, Trump -- there have been reports that he wasn't going, and Trump made clear that he did have a seat on--
SWISHER: Who cares. Who cares. Who cares.
COLLINS: --on Air Force One.
SWISHER: He went. Yes.
COLLINS: Can I ask you?
SWISHER: Sure.
COLLINS: Because one thing that I'm interested in that's been playing out in all of this is this trial that's underway--
SWISHER: Yes.
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: --with Elon Musk and OpenAI and Microsoft and Sam Altman. Both Sam Altman and Elon Musk testified during the trial.
SWISHER: They did.
COLLINS: A judge had actually told Elon Musk he was not excused to leave. But he did not attend the close -- he's not attending the closing arguments--
SWISHER: Yes.
COLLINS: --because he's in China.
SWISHER: Right.
COLLINS: What do you make of whether that will have any impact on this?
SWISHER: I don't know. Because, the judge will be the one deciding on remedies.
So, he doesn't listen, and he's just like Trump. Remember when Trump did things he wasn't supposed to do in the trial, in the -- in the courtroom. Elon just doesn't -- plays by his own rules, and he's about to become the world's first trillionaire, and so he's going to really play by his own rules, going forward. You know, whatever, he's going to break another rule, and no one's going to do anything about it.
And so, I think he'll put in the mind of the judge who seemed irritated by him, many times during the trial.
I mean, this is the strangest trial, it's the stupidest trial and it makes AI -- talk about making brand.ai look idiotic. And I think I just said something on one of the social media thing. It's that, you know, it's the stupidest trial of people that didn't get hugged enough as children, like the kind of pettiness and the anger between them and the name-calling, it feels very playground, and it certainly doesn't make me feel good about the people running these AI companies. Most people think -- the jury will decide, and then the judge will decide remedies. Probably most people think Elon is the underdog here. You know, we'll see. They were pointing fingers at each other. Musk was calling Sam a liar, and vice versa. And so, who does the jury not like more? Probably Musk would be my guess, given all the other antics he's pulled over the last couple--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Is there anything in the trial that has surprised you, or as you've watched it?
SWISHER: Just how petty and small these people are. Whether it was the woman who had children with Musk not telling the board about the children. It might be some possible disclosure you might want to give to a board. Or the diary of Greg Brockman, where he's just, like, mulling things.
I think what struck me so much was the tininess of these people, the tiny, petty silliness, that these are the richest and most powerful people on Earth, and they're like, wildly unhappy. And that was just an insight I had. I was like, Wow, they really are just a group, like people I wouldn't want to have at a dinner party, I would say.
And, you know, and it's kind of silly because, there's some really serious issues around AI. And to spend time doing this trial because, you walked away from a company and now you're mad about it? Seems like a waste of time and money for certainly the judge, the jury.
But these people just can't get through all their ridiculous drama, whether it's at the White House, or in the Defense Department, or whatever. And this is Silicon Valley acting like the toddlers I have always thought many of -- too many of them to be.
COLLINS: Kara Swisher. It's great to have you. Thanks for joining us here.
SWISHER: Thanks, Kaitlan. Thanks.
COLLINS: And for people who want to see more of Kara Swisher, the final episodes of her series, "Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever" are airing Saturday, 09:00 p.m. Eastern, here on CNN. You don't want to miss that.
Up next. We're going to go straight to the source with one of the politicians that you see in this heated exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO JAPAN UNDER PRES. BIDEN, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF FOR PRES. OBAMA: What's going to happen in November is going to come as a big shock to you. People don't like corruption. They don't like the White House looking like eBay.
(END VIDEO CLIP) [21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: In 1972, Richard Nixon ended 25 years of isolation between the United States and China, becoming the first sitting U.S. president to visit China. Since then, seven other presidents have made that journey.
Gerald Ford met with Mao Zedong just 10 months before the Chinese leader's death.
In 1984, Ronald Reagan's trip to China focused on trade.
And there was that growing momentum for the United States China relations when George H. W. Bush went to Beijing in 1990 -- 1989. That is, until the Tiananmen Square massacre later that year.
It would be almost 10 years before another presidential visit, and Bill Clinton's remarkable televised press conference that happened.
George W. Bush made four trips, and was even in the stands actually at the opening ceremony for the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
President Barack Obama took three trips to China.
But by 2014, U.S.-China relations were worsening under Xi Jinping's leadership.
Now President Trump is there on his second trip to China. And while the relationship between Trump and Xi appears much friendlier publicly than Obama's. He is going at a time when the United States relationships with allies have been strained, the war with Iran is now in its 11th week, and the effect on the economy, as many of you know, is being felt here at home.
Joining me tonight is the former Ambassador to Japan under President Biden, and our CNN Senior Political and Global Affairs Commentator, Rahm Emanuel.
And Rahm, when you look at this relationship, over the last 50 years, between the United States and China. What stands out to you so far about this visit by President Trump?
EMANUEL: Well, I think on this visit, I mean, the President's going in seeking business deals, one, just on agricultural products, making up for a very bad tariff that actually cost us markets for our soybean farmers and other type of farmers and those type of products.
Second is, we're seeking commercial, they're seeking strategic interest. They're talking about Taiwan. They're talking about the value, what that means strategically for China in the region.
We have a theory of the case: We are a permanent Pacific power and presence, and you can bet long on us. Their theory of the case? China is a rising power. America is a receding power. If you don't get in line, we're going to give you the treatment.
[21:50:00]
Now, our number one ally, Japan, where I was ambassador, is now being coerced economically by China. At any point, did the President speak up for the long pole of our Indo-Pacific strategy, which is Japan?
Second, part of the First Island Chain is the Philippines. And China, right now, while we were busy in Iran, was building another island in the South China Sea, illegal to the International Court. Did we defend a treaty ally in that case?
And so, when I look at it, we are actually -- I think the President has lost the nerve to confront China. Because, one of the things that helps our allies stand up and stand by us is when we stand up by them. And I think that's a real loss in this opportunity. It's not just about Taiwan. The First Island Chain, which is the Philippines, a treaty ally of the United States, we're not defending at this very critical juncture, while they're threatening them with another island in the South China Sea.
COLLINS: Did it reassure you at all that Secretary Rubio said the policy with Taiwan remains unchanged, as he did earlier?
EMANUEL: Well, it's not important that he say it that way. It's what the President said in that room. Did the President say that?
When China says, we don't -- you don't want to do anything that will endanger the relationship? Well, that's a two-way street. Our policy is there should be no use of kinetic or military force to change the status quo. Did the President reiterate that to Xi? Because, it's a two-way street. It's not just on us. It's on both of us.
And if the policy is a One China policy, with no use of force to change the status quo? And everything China is doing, cyber, military exercise, quarantine preparations and quarantine exercise, is about military force? That is in direct violation of our agreement, when we did the One China policy that explicitly said, Not using force.
So, I was not reassured that Secretary of State Rubio said it.
COLLINS: Yes.
EMANUEL: I'm glad he said it. I'm glad he made the point. But what he said inside would be more important.
COLLINS: There was this moment you just -- we were talking about Eric Trump with Jim Jordan earlier, who has been super-critical of Hunter Biden, and what he said how he benefited from his relationship with his father.
There was a moment with you and the former Virginia Governor, Glenn Youngkin, at a conference last week that I don't think a lot of people probably saw. I just want to play part of what happened when you two were on stage together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMANUEL: What's going to happen in November is going to come as a big shock to you. People don't like corruption. They don't like the White House looking like eBay. And you have sold -- if it ain't nailed down -- you've sold everything. And they don't like a set of politics that goes from the rule of law to the rule of one man. And they're going to reject crony capitalism that has been now the rule of what's happening at the White House. And you're going to get your comeuppance.
And you can say all you want about socialism. I can tell you, right now, that's not where the Democratic Party is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Youngkin responded to you, going after Democrats, saying that the frontrunners or the prominent faces are socialists.
But as far as the argument you made, is that the argument you're going to make in 2028, sir?
EMANUEL: Well, I made that argument going back my whole life. We made that into the -- the House that Tom DeLay built in 2006, when the Republicans lost the control of the House, and that's why we've issued an ethics legislation and lobbying reform.
In this White House, you have the fam -- this White House is already $4 billion richer than the day they walked in. The family members are making money off of their father. They're on a trip trying to do business. The Homeland Security is now -- Inspector General is looking at how contracts were loaded for detention centers nobody wants.
COLLINS: Eric Trump says he's not doing business while he's there.
EMANUEL: There's constant--
COLLINS: I mean, what do you--
EMANUEL: But they are investing--
COLLINS: --what do you think of that?
EMANUEL: Everywhere they go -- wait, Kaitlan. Everywhere they go, they're investing in companies that -- specifically, the Financial Times had a story the other day, in areas that the fed -- the government is now making investments. They're $4 billion richer. The American people are $4 billion lost in income. This is -- we have people struggling to stay above water.
This family, the Secretary of Commerce Lutnick's kids, the sec -- Witkoff and Witkoff's family, there's a -- all making money. There's a story the other day about how the Gulf countries feel like they got ahead by Kushner because, they gave him all this money for investment, blatantly saying, they didn't give the money to him because they thought he was a good developer or an investor. They gave the money for access. That is the message we're sending.
And you just had Kara Swisher on there. All these business people are on this here because, they're paying because it's a good return for them.
It's a White House not built on the rule of law, built on a judgment like the pardon -- like the pardon story that The New York Times ran, where people are paying money to get pardons. It is a cash-and-carry White House. That is the defining quality of this White House and this administration.
[21:55:00]
And I will run on it, I've done it my whole life, and I believe that the goal of being in public service, which is the most honorable thing you do, is to serve the public.
COLLINS: Yes.
EMANUEL: This -- the Trump White House is built on a culture of corruption, crony capitalism, cash and carry. And if it ain't nailed down, they'd sell it for access and everything through the White House, and that's the -- that's the credence of this White House.
COLLINS: Rahm Emanuel, thank you, as always.
EMANUEL: Thanks.
COLLINS: Up next here for us on THE SOURCE. After some delays, apparently the Trump phone is now about to head out. What we know about that? Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Nearly a year after Trump Mobile started taking those $100 deposits, the company now says the gold-plated Trump phone is going to finally start shipping this week.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC TRUMP, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SON: You can build these phones in the United States. Our customer service is in the United States. It's in St. Louis, Missouri.
DONALD TRUMP JR., PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SON: With Trump Mobile, we're going to be introducing an entire package of products.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The Made-in-America claim was scrapped pretty quickly, and changed to, Designed with American values in mind. It's a nearly $500 phone which strongly resembles a Chinese phone that you can also buy at Walmart, usually for less than $200. It's going to have a smaller screen and not as much memory as originally promised. It will have the Trump brand and the gold color that you see here.
Thanks for joining us tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
