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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
CNN Projects Trump-Backed Gallrein Will Defeat Massie; Trump Endorses Paxton, Upending Senate GOP Plans In TX Race; Vance Won't Rule Out Compensating J6 Rioters Who Assaulted Police. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired May 19, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
DAVID AXELROD, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRES. OBAMA: And I think Scott was right to say he didn't support it. Van Hollen raised a really -- I mean, I don't know how many Republican senators want to cast a vote in favor of giving money to police officer--
VAN JONES, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Yes.
AXELROD: --people who assaulted police--
JONES: Give them on the record.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: I want to thank everybody.
Our primary night coverage continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. We'll see you tomorrow night.
(MUSIC)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Good evening. You're hearing that music. I'm Kaitlan Collins. This is THE SOURCE. And, of course, we thank you for joining us tonight for CNN's breaking news coverage as election results are rolling in tonight.
As we come on the air right now, the President has just scored a major victory in his revenge tour. That's because a top target of his fury, Republican Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky, has just lost his primary race to his Trump-endorsed opponent, according to our CNN projections.
Now, there are a few races that the President had been as personally invested in as this one. The President, taking out a Republican who was once very popular in his district, for 14 years in the House, really illustrates tonight the major power that the President still has over his party.
He reacted to this news, just a few moments ago, at the White House. As did Thomas Massie himself, who took several swings during his concession speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We won the Massie thing. He was a bad guy. He deserves to lose.
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): While gas is almost $5 and diesel is almost $6.
(Booing)
MASSIE: They're talking about this big ballroom they're going to build, and it looks -- it looks like the Roman Empire, architecture from the Roman Empire. I see a few analogies there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MASSIE: And people are just trying to make ends meet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And what you heard from the President on the South Lawn there, really echoes what a senior White House adviser told my colleague, Kristen Holmes earlier, saying that what's happening tonight, what we're keeping track of, is quote, About reminding people of the political power. It's not about retribution but, this adviser said, this is basic political management of a party. You have to keep everybody on the reservation, and occasionally you have to shoot a hostage.
Now, the President has posted on Truth Social about this race, in particular with Congressman Massie, non-stop. All of these things that you're looking at right now are posts that he either posted or reposted just today alone.
The fixation on this race showed up even as the President was giving that guided tour of the work being done, on what you heard Thomas Massie just mention, the White House ballroom, this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Thomas Massie is a terrible congressman. He's been a terrible congressman from day one. Dealing with him is just a -- horrible. I don't think he's a Republican, and I think he's actually -- I think he's actually a Dumbocrat. He's not a Libertarian. You know, sometimes they say he's a -- he's really a Dumbocrat.
MAGA is most of the Republican Party. The RINOs are gone, to a large extent. A few of them are still left. So hopefully we get rid of one tonight in the form of Tom Massie, who is horrible. But no, it's -- it's been amazing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So, that's what happened so far in Kentucky.
But as we come on the air right now, new results are continuing to come in across the country in other races tonight because, voters in six states are exercising their power at the ballot box. We're tracking all the results in several elections that are going to potentially shape the landscape for the November midterms very closely.
As tonight, the President is also flexing his endorsement power in another big primary race, as he endorsed, in Texas, the Attorney General there, Ken Paxton. That's over the Republican incumbent Senator John Cornyn. That deciding factor, according to the President, was that, quote, "John Cornyn is a good man, and I worked well with him, but he was not supportive of me when times were tough."
Well, several Republican senators on Capitol Hill seem to feel differently tonight, actually seemed pretty angry by the President's endorsement of Ken Paxton over John Cornyn, in this race that is still a week away from tonight.
Now, Ken Paxton is someone, as the President talked about in his post earlier, he did not mention this, but he has been plagued by scandal, and some Republicans fear that if he beats John Cornyn in the primary, a Democrat could have a shot at winning Texas, come November.
I want to get right to John King at the Magic Wall tonight.
Because John, obviously we've been watching Kentucky, and what was happening there with the President's revenge tour. Between that and what other races, are you keeping an eye on this hour?
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's start with the Republican implications, Kaitlan. Then we'll move on to some other races that we're still watching as we go on.
As you noted, Thomas Massie losing his seat by a pretty convincing margin, if you are a Republican. And this is yet another example of if you cross Donald Trump, he will come after you, not only in words, but they've spent millions to do this to help Ed Gallrein win this race.
There's one for Thomas Massie, right? Thomas Massie, if he has a moral victory, it's that he won his home county of Lewis County. Donald Trump won this county by 87 percent in 2024. But moral victories don't matter if you're trying to keep your seat. And Thomas Massie will lose his. He'll finish his term, of course.
[21:05:00]
This is one example, Kaitlan. You know this well, you've covered this for a long time. In the last decade, Republicans who crossed Donald Trump have had Donald Trump come at them and try to beat them.
You look at the Senate Republican contest in Kentucky as well. Daniel Cameron was once a protege of Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell, we all know, has run afoul of Donald Trump, and you might call Daniel Cameron's career almost collateral damage to that. Trump endorsed Andy Barr, he's running away with the Senate primary in the State of Kentucky.
Another example, if we switch to the gubernatorial primary, we'll come down here to the State of Georgia and pull this up. This race is now headed for a runoff. This one's interesting.
As you know, Kaitlan, Trump endorsed the Lieutenant Governor, Burt Jones. He was a fake elector back in 2020 and all that. He will make the runoff, but he's getting a stiff challenge by Republican Rick Jackson, who has spent a lot of his own money on this race. But the Republicans -- Trump Republicans have poured a lot of money in here as well. But again, to the point, if you cross Donald Trump, that can be toxic to your Republican future.
There's Brad Raffensperger. He was the Georgia Secretary of State, infamously, on that call in 2020, when Trump was looking -- looking -- yes, looking, for a 11,000-plus votes in the State of Georgia. Raffensperger said, No, sir, our elections are free and fair. And Raffensperger is running a distant third, once a rising star in Georgia Republican Party politics. So, that's a big one there.
The other thing I'll just say, Kaitlan, in closing, follow up if you wish, is the Democrats think in this 110-mile stretch, from the end of Bucks County to the north of Wayne County, there are three congressional districts right there. There are three Republican incumbents.
Democrats are hoping to flip the 1st district right here. Bob Harvie is leading in that race here. They hope to flip the 7th district here, and you see a firefighter, Bob Brooks, is leading in that race right now. And then you see up here, the Democrats have a candidate, the primaries uncontested in the 8th. Those are three seats in Pennsylvania.
There's the fourth one here, again, you know this Congressman, the Republican incumbent is Scott Perry, a Trump ally and election denier. The Democrats hope this one as well.
So, as you look at the broader national map, and as Democrats try to flip the House, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania will be huge, not only in the Democratic map but -- 2026, a springboard to 2028. The Democratic governor here, Josh Shapiro, not only hopes to win reelection, he hopes to make a point, he hopes to help flip a lot of seats here to help his national aspirations.
COLLINS: Oh, yes. A lot to watch there.
KING: Right.
COLLINS: John King, we'll be checking back in with you at the Magic Wall tonight.
KING: Thank you.
COLLINS: Also, my colleague, Jeff Zeleny, is in Kentucky tonight, where we just heard from Thomas Massie, after he was projected to lose his race.
Jeff, you're in the room. I mean, it was a very loud reaction from Thomas Massie's supporters as he was speaking tonight. What stood out to you from what he had to say in this moment? JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kaitlan, I've heard a lot of political concession speeches. Tonight sounded like anything but. Congressman Massie delivered a forward-looking message to his room full of supporters here about the movement that he has started.
Even as we speak here, I'm turning around, he has a long line of supporters around him, signing autographs -- doing for them and taking pictures. He clearly is trying to cast this as something more than a defeat. But a defeat indeed it was. It was a convincing defeat, only as John was saying there, having a strong showing in his home county, Lewis County, which is basically at the foothills of Appalachia. That is where he held his rally last night.
When I talked to him last night, he sounded confident, but also realistic about what was coming. I asked him about his plans, if he would plan to run as an Independent, and challenge Gallrein. He said, No, you can't do that in Kentucky, and he brought up the sore-loser law. That means you cannot mount a candidacy after you lost. That was on the top of his mind.
Clearly, in this speech here tonight, again, to his room full of supporters at least, it was music to their ears as he talked about a growing movement. And he urged his supporters to be positive. He barely mentioned President Trump by name. Of course, President Trump has not done him the same courtesy, going after him like we have not seen him going after any other Republicans.
So, Kaitlan, for a losing campaign, a massive defeat, this is an upbeat party here. The question for Massie is, what's next? The only thing we know, for the next six and a half months, he's still a member of Congress. And with a fragile Republican majority, he can still be that thorn in the President's side that he's complained about so often.
Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes. That's a good point, Jeff. Still we'll have to watch, despite this loss tonight.
ZELENY: Right.
COLLINS: Jeff Zeleny, at the Massie campaign headquarters, thank you for that.
Here with me tonight, someone who knows Thomas Massie very well. Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California, who has been one of his biggest supporters.
And also our CNN Political Commentator, and former senior policy adviser in the Obama White House, Ashley Allison.
And CNN Senior Political Commentator, and former Trump campaign adviser, David Urban.
[21:10:00] And Congressman, Thomas Massie talked about one of the biggest things that the White House hated that the two of you worked on, which was the release of the Epstein files, something that went from seeming like a far-fetched dream to a reality.
And he referenced that in his speech tonight. I want you to listen to what he told his supporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MASSIE: We need basic decency. That's what the Epstein Files Transparency Act was all about. By the way, today is the six-month anniversary of the Epstein Files Transparency Act. We've taken out two dozen CEOs, an ambassador.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
MASSIE: A prince.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
MASSIE: A prime minister.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
MASSIE: A minister of culture.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
MASSIE: And that was just six months. I got seven months left in Congress.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, first, what do you make of his loss tonight, and what's to come, potentially?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Thomas is a good friend. So, I'm saddened just on a personal level.
I was very angered over the last couple days, seeing the smears on his character. He's a good man. He put his career at risk to pass the most popular and consequential bipartisan legislation in the Epstein Transparency Act, probably in modern history. It pulls off the charts, and it was to hold the elites accountable for treating young girls as dispensable, and he lost his seat because, he stood up against the Iran war.
And the lesson really is that people who are against the Epstein class and against this war don't have a place in the Trump coalition. And look, he was winning voters under 45 by 30 percent. And if they don't have a place in the Trump coalition, there's a new movement that thinks this system is rotten and that wants to build for the working class, against the Epstein class, for Team America, and they're welcome to join this new movement.
COLLINS: Yes, and David, I do think that to--
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Wait, is he talking an independent party?
COLLINS: Well, I mean, but to Jeff's point. I listened to Thomas Massie's speech. He talked a lot about this being a movement and saying that there is a greater purpose to whatever happened tonight--
URBAN: Yes.
COLLINS: --in Kentucky's 4th Congressional District.
URBAN: I think the Congressman is on to something. He -- Thomas Massie, is incredibly popular amongst young people.
I think young people are disenchanted with the current system of government. I think they think the system is rigged against them, when they see members of Congress trading and making millions of dollars, right, and government officials trading on insider information. Whether it's in the administration, whether it's the Congress, I think they think it's wrong.
I think they see so many things wrong, and they look at somebody like Thomas -- like Massie, who's totally iconoclastic and kind of swimming against the stream, and they say, Yes, that guy may not be popular, but I agree with a lot of what he says, right?
And call it libertarian, call it independent, call it whatever you want. But people want limited government, they want transparency, and they don't like either party where they stand right now, I think. There's a -- there's a great dissatisfaction amongst that.
There's, you know, a lot of people are registering Independent. But then you can't -- if you're an Independent, you can't vote in a primary, right? So then we -- you end up with extreme right, extreme left, as candidates, and a lot of people who are irritated when they go to vote in a general election.
COLLINS: I mean, you listen to those things: Releasing the Epstein files, not starting foreign wars, reducing federal spending. Those are all things that the Trump campaign ran on--
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR POLICY ADVISER UNDER PRES. OBAMA: Yes. COLLINS: --in 2024.
ALLISON: Yes, I look at this race as -- it's a ruby red district, right? Like, in a general, no Democrat is going to win this seat. And so, when Donald Trump goes into a race like this, he can have a sway with it, even if the things that Thomas Massie stands for are what Donald Trump stood for when he was a candidate, not as a president because, this is Donald Trump's party. He literally said it. He said, the MAGA party is the Republican Party.
But that's not -- you don't see him kind of doing this type of play in a place like Georgia, where the races are much closer, actually, right now. Because, Georgia is still in play. It has two Democratic senators, it has a Republican governor, and the weight of Donald Trump is not playing in somewhat of a purple state.
In Louisiana, sometimes they have Democratic leadership, but mostly a red state.
In Indiana, a red state.
The question is, does this work in the general election? And because of what David said, and because what the Congressmen is saying, people are frustrated, and they feel like it's a betrayal on both sides that we're in a war that we're -- that the Epstein files still aren't being released. And so, I think it will backfire on the Republican Party, even with Donald Trump's weight in November.
URBAN: And just a little bit to this, you know, the beginning of this, you know, Trump -- Trump embraces the prince, right? It's better to be feared than loved.
And he -- you know, who he praised effusively always was Speaker Pelosi because, Speaker Pelosi, who lived by that mantra as well. Nobody crossed Nancy Pelosi, and Donald Trump always admired her for that. She was tough as nails. If you cross Pelosi, you'd be dead, and Trump admired that discipline.
When Kevin McCarthy was Speaker, he'd always like kind of knock on Kevin for not being as strong. And so, what Trump does here is he demands discipline in his party, and it's better to be feared than loved.
[21:15:00]
COLLINS: Yes, but Congressman, I mean, this is a district, Thomas Massie won it by 34 points the last time he ran here. If you're looking for what is a safe seat, I mean, this is pretty much the definition of it, typically.
KHANNA: Sure. And look, Thomas was very realistic and clear-eyed about this. It's a generational divide. I mean, Donald Trump had the loyalty of all the people who care about party discipline and care about the president. He said there were people who were upset with the war in Iran, but they just said, I want to support my commander-in-chief, and Gallrein got all those votes. But Thomas was winning voters under 50 by 30 points. That's a large bleeding of the Trump coalition. And it gives an opportunity for the Democrats, and we reject the status quo, and we say, we are recognizing that it's been a broken system that has actually hollowed out communities, that has been engaged in foreign wars, that has allowed an Epstein class to run away with things, and we actually become the party of reform that we can attract some of these young voters that put Donald Trump over the top.
COLLINS: Yes, we'll see what happens.
Congressman, thank you for joining us tonight to talk about Massie's race.
Ashley and Scott, stick around -- or David, stick around. Was watching Scott earlier. Sorry, David.
URBAN: That's Ashley's -- that's Ashley's running partner, generally.
KHANNA: David is much more polite.
ALLISON: He's more polite--
KHANNA: Much more polite.
COLLINS: Don't worry, everyone knows it's David Urban here. He will be back with us, right after this.
We do have more on tonight's consequential elections. There are more playing out this evening.
And also, what does the President's endorsement of Ken Paxton mean for the Senate and for his agenda, after a major reversal tonight from another Senator that the President just pushed out.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We have more breaking news tonight with major implications for next week's Republican Senate runoff in Texas. Yes, we are going to be doing this again one week from tonight. That's because today, the President came out and endorsed the Texas Attorney General, Ken Paxton, in a brutal primary challenge right now against the incumbent senator in that state, John Cornyn.
If you're wondering how this could complicate the fight for control of the Senate in this year's midterms, look no further than the reaction from John Cornyn's fellow Senate Republicans.
After it came out that the President was endorsing Ken Paxton. Susan Collins said that Paxton is a, quote, "Ethically challenged individual." Lindsey Graham warned that the race will be, quote, "Three times more expensive" if Paxton wins. And Lisa Murkowski asked, How does that help strengthen the president's hand when we lose a state like Texas? That's a sentiment that was echoed today by Cornyn, but dismissed by Paxton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): I believe that in terms of our success in November, that Ken Paxton would be an albatross around the neck of our candidates and would likely lose to James Talarico.
KEN PAXTON, (R) CANDIDATE FOR U.S. SENATE: He's not been a friend of the President. 2016, he said he was an albatross around our neck, and then in 2024, he said that his time had passed, and he insinuated that he was guilty of crimes.
This guy has been a friend of Donald Trump ever since I got into the race a year ago, but has not been a friend to him prior to that. And as soon as this race is over, he will not be a friend to Donald Trump. That is not his history, that is not his record, and he's been dishonest with the voters of Texas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My friend, Harry Enten, is here.
Harry, I mean, obviously, when the President said today that he was about to endorse in Texas, everyone was waiting to see if it really happened. And then came the Truth Social Post.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes, it really happened. It really happened. And I can't think of an endorsement in Republican politics that has ever been as important as Donald John Trump's endorsement. And you see it in Texas, you saw obviously in Kentucky, earlier tonight, you saw it in Louisiana, over the weekend, and you see in the Texas polling as well.
Because, just take a look here. Impact of Trump's endorsement, Texas Senate, among Republicans. Look at what you see here. 55 percent of Republicans say that you would be more likely to vote for the candidate Donald Trump endorses. You see, 36 percent say no impact. Look at this though, just 9 percent say less likely to vote for the candidate that Trump endorses.
But overall here, it's just very clear. If you get Trump's endorsement, as Ken Paxton has, then all of a sudden what we should expect to see is Republican voters lining up behind Ken Paxton, which of course is what we've seen in basically every single other contest, including obviously in Kentucky earlier this evening.
COLLINS: But with Lisa Murkowski's comment there. She said, How does it help the president if we ended up losing Texas? It's because there's a real question about how Ken Paxton would fare against James Talarico, the Democrat, come November.
ENTEN: Yes, OK, so I think it's so important to note that you have one world, one galaxy in which you have the Republican primary electorate, and then you have a completely other galaxy, which is the general electorate, and the polling here really tells the story, right?
Because, even before the endorsement, what you essentially saw here was a very close race, but one in which Ken Paxton was actually favored to win in the runoff over John Cornyn, obviously the incumbent. Paxton was ahead 48 percent to 45 percent. Based upon slide number one, of course, I expect that Paxton's lead is going to climb ever higher.
So, you see these numbers right here, but then look towards the general election because, it is a completely different world. Because, you can see it right here. OK. Choice for Texas Senate. You got Talarico here at 44 percent. And then look at here, Ken Paxton, a Republican, a Republican in Texas, the best he can do at this point is averaging 40 percent of the vote?
[21:25:00]
I mean, I was looking at all the polling I could find. This is the best that a Democrat for Senate has been polling since like 2002. That is a very long time ago, when you have to go all the way back since I was in middle school, you know that the Democrat in this particular case is polling well in Texas.
COLLINS: Harry Enten, that's why we keep you around, so we can go back to your middle school years.
ENTEN: I know.
COLLINS: Thank you, Harry, for those numbers.
Joining me here tonight.
David Frum, who is a staff writer for The Atlantic.
I've got Ashley Allison, and David Urban, back with me.
What are your thoughts on the President's endorsement of Ken Paxton in this race? I mean, Susan Collins calling him ethically challenged today, I think, took the cake. But what did you make of that?
DAVID FRUM, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Well, he is ethically challenged, and that's obviously why Trump likes him. Trump is an immoral man, and he's attracted to other immoral men.
And I think what I -- and I take no joy in John Cornyn's situation, but I think it would be well on him to reflect, and for the other Senate Republican senators to reflect. They have swallowed everything, every betrayal of principle. They attempted overthrow of the government of the United States by Donald Trump in 2021. They didn't convict him when they had a chance.
They hoped that if they went easy, Cyclops would eat them last. But Cyclops is turning one by one and eating them. And now they're in danger of losing their majority. The thing they betrayed, everything they believed on in order to keep, and they're going to lose it because, Donald Trump is about nothing but himself and his own tax- free immunity and impunity forever.
COLLINS: I mean, Senate Republicans don't often speak out against the President, obviously, as we know, David. But they were quite unhappy today after he came out and endorsed someone against their colleague.
URBAN: Yes. Well, I mean, I think Lindsey Graham summed it up best, right? It's going to cost three times as much now. That's the -- that's what's really underpinning all this. In a Texas race that Cornyn, maybe not the most dynamic senator or most beloved, but you know, he was kind of a walk to win and beat Talarico.
Paxton, completely different story. You know, I've seen some numbers where, you know, it's estimated, the NRSC is going to spend additional $250 million in Texas. That's not pocket change, OK? When you got a race in Maine, it's cheap race, a race in Alaska to help protect, right? You drop $10 million, $15 million--
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Georgia.
ALLISON: Yes.
URBAN: Georgia. Some of these races that--
ALLISON: North Carolina.
URBAN: You know, North Carolina -- well, you know that's a tougher race. But some of these races are going to be close. And if you have to spend $250 million bucks in Texas now to kind of prop up a guy who may not be the strongest candidate in a general election? It's tough.
Now, listen. Again, it's Texas. So, it's a ruby red state with a little blueberry there in Austin, right? So, Talarico is still pushing a big rock up a hill in the State of Texas. But--
COLLINS: Yes, but I -- yes, I feel like it's always the mirage for Democrats.
ALLISON: Yes.
URBAN: What is it? Look at Beto.
COLLINS: And Ashley, what's--
URBAN: Like Beto O'Rourke is going to be a senator.
ALLISON: Well--
URBAN: And then Beto O'Rourke--
COLLINS: Give us the reality check on this of how Democrats are feeling about this, if it is Ken Paxton--
ALLISON: Yes.
COLLINS: --against James Talarico?
ALLISON: Well, can I say just one thing to your point is, I totally agree that Republican senators are lying in the bed that they made. They had moments of intervention, and they didn't have the moral courage, and it still came to bite them in the long run. And so, that is -- John Cornyn is where he is.
Look, Texas is going to be hard. But what I will say is in the primary with James Talarico and Jasmine Crockett, we had some of the largest turnout of Democratic voters in history. There -- because, Democrats have not always organized in Texas and didn't always have a strong Democratic infrastructure. But they have, since Beto's race in 2018, they've slowly been building and building. There is an opportunity. Is it going to be hard? But -- yes.
But the right types of alignment of stars, great ground infrastructure, what James Talarico really did in this primary race, using other people's infrastructure in Texas, just plummeting poll numbers for Donald Trump. And go back to 2022. Donald Trump picks these Senate candidates that are somewhat of a disaster, and they play in Democrats' favor. So, all things could align for this to be the time to flip Texas blue.
COLLINS: Well, I mean--
URBAN: Listen, I think Democrats can win in Texas, just not with James Talarico. I think you have to get someone who's a lot different profile.
ALLISON: We'll see. I got to tell you, I've met James Talarico. I was -- I'm sure--
URBAN: I'm sure -- I'm sure he's a decent person.
ALLISON: And he -- he is a good candidate. He can speak to Texas. And the one thing that I think he's doing really smart right now is that he's organizing in Texas. He did not use his primary win to become a national star. He's using that primary win to build to try and win.
FRUM: I also think that if you look at the situation in May and project it forward to November, you're not understanding the dynamics of the American economy.
This is a slowing economy. By November, it will be clear that Donald Trump lost the war in Iran. It will be clear that all Americans got out of it was higher gas prices, higher food prices, higher fuel prices. You're probably going to be in a very slow job-creation situation by the second half of the year, and continuing high rising prices.
So, the situation is deteriorating. I think that's the sense of panic, you're hearing from the Republican senators. They know it's going to get worse, and Donald Trump is doing his part to make it worse because of his own ego needs and his own, again, his desires: Get the ballroom, never pay taxes again, and punish my enemies.
[21:30:00]
COLLINS: And I do want to note, for a quick moment here. We have some breaking news on my home state. CNN is now projecting that Senator Tommy Tuberville will win the Republican primary for Governor of Alabama. Obviously, that is someone who is a big ally of the President's, David Urban, when it comes to what this race is looking like, and he's going to find himself up against Doug Jones come November.
URBAN: Listen, again, I think Coach is going to win. Just that's all I got to say about Alabama. The Coach will win, right?
ALLISON: Yes.
COLLINS: Yes, but it's going to be an interesting race.
ALLISON: I was -- I was--
URBAN: I just think the Coach is going to win.
ALLISON: I was literally in Alabama on Saturday.
URBAN: Your state. I'm not--
ALLISON: It's your state. But I was in Alabama on Saturday. And--
COLLINS: Thank you for conceding this--
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: And what is happening in Alabama is also -- there's layers to it. There's a large black population that feels like their voting rights are being gutted. And when you feel like your congressional districts are being stripped, there is a play for the Senate, to activate black voters. They're literally eviscerating a district right now in Montgomery. And so, I do think in Alabama there will be some energy, some organizing. Is it, again, a tough race to win? Yes. But Doug Jones has won before.
COLLINS: Well, also Alabama is the key point in how confusing what has happened lately with the redistricting--
ALLISON: Yes.
COLLINS: --and the maps, and the court decisions because, some primaries are today, some are being held in August. A lot of people were wondering when to vote.
URBAN: Kaitlan, let's give you another name. Sisyphus. Just remember that.
ALLISON: I say all roads lead to the South.
COLLINS: David Urban. David Frum. Ashley Allison. It's so great to have all three of you here tonight. Up next. As gas prices are weighing on voters ahead of the midterms, as David was just referencing. I asked the Vice President, JD Vance, in the Briefing Room today, about comments that the President had made last week about Americans' financial situations, and whether or not they should be considered amid the war with Iran.
His answer, when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you believe that Americans' financial situations should be taken into consideration, when you're making decisions, as an administration, about the war?
JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Now, see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:35:00]
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COLLINS: We do have some other breaking news on this Election Night tonight. Because, the Senate, on its eighth try, has just voted to advance a measure that would force President Trump to end the war with Iran or get authorization from Congress.
The vote was 50 to 47. And for the first time, Republican Senator Bill Cassidy joined three of his Republican colleagues in voting with Democrats. Democratic Senator John Fetterman was the only one in his party who voted against it. But Cassidy's vote is notable because, it comes just a few days after he lost his bid for a third term in Saturday's Louisiana primary against a Trump-endorsed challenger who is now headed for a runoff in that seat.
My source tonight is Democratic Senator Tim Kaine, who introduced this measure to limit the President's war powers.
And, Senator, we had you on a few weeks ago. You predicted that more Republicans would vote with you. Why do you think Senator Cassidy voted with you this time?
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Well, you know, Kaitlan, I don't want to put words in colleagues' mouths.
But I guess, the way I'll say this is when we started on this path to say, No war against Iran without a vote of Congress. We had one Republican vote, Rand Paul. A few weeks later, we were eight weeks into the war. We had a second Republican vote, Susan Collins. Last week, once we passed 60 days, which is relevant under the War Powers Act, we got a third vote, Lisa Murkowski. And today, Bill Cassidy joined.
And this slow, steady momentum of Republicans saying, Mr. President, you can't wage war without Congress, is building. It matches what I'm hearing as I travel around Virginia. And I predict, we're going to continue to see more Republicans in both the House and the Senate join in to assert the constitutional prerogative of Congress members, that a president should not be able to wage war on his own.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, there were three Republicans who weren't there today. And so, I think if you're looking at the math, and everyone is there when you take another vote, if it goes to the House, if John Fetterman stays a no, you will need more Republicans. So, where do you think that math is? Who do you think you could get to come around here?
KAINE: Here's the math that matters. What's the price of gas? I don't think we'll have the vote on the motion to proceed to the bill on the Senate floor until after we come back from Memorial Day recess.
So, here's what I think is going to happen, Kaitlan. We won the vote today to discharge the bill from committee and finally have this debate on the Senate floor. Folks are going to go home, in the Senate, for a week-long Memorial Day recess.
Americans are traveling to family reunions and a beach weekend, and they're going to know how much they're paying to fill their car up compared to last year. And they're reading stories about American troops who have died and others who have been injured, and what the long-term consequences of the Straits of Hormuz being closed are, not only on gas but grocery prices, the inflation rate, generally.
We're going to hear an awful lot from our constituents, next week, when we're back home. And I think when we come back, the week after Memorial Day, having heard from folks, I think there are a number of other Republicans who could be moved in our direction.
COLLINS: Yes, a lot of people are going to be driving this weekend.
[21:40:00]
When it comes to the impact gas is having on Americans. The President was criticized for what he said last week, that Americans' financial situations are not a consideration when he makes decisions on the Iran war. He later repeated that statement.
And I asked the Vice President, JD Vance, about it today, and this is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You last week denied that the President said he was not taking Americans' financial situations into consideration, when he's making decisions on the Iran war. He was asked about that again. He stood by it, called it a perfect statement, and said he would make it again.
Do you believe that Americans' financial situations should be taken into consideration, when you're making decisions, as an administration, about the war?
VANCE: Now, see Kaitlan, what you did is you misrepresented the question that I was asked, and then you misrepresented the answer that I gave.
What I said is that a question that was asked, where the President, allegedly, he allegedly said that he didn't care about Americans' financial situations. He never said that. What he said is that when he -- it was totally taken out of context. What he said is that when he is negotiating with the Iranians, he's focused on the national security objectives that he's trying to achieve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, I looked at what the Vice President was asked and what the President was obviously asked. It was very clear what the question was here in terms of whether or not this should be a consideration.
What did you make of the Vice President's answer today?
KAINE: Well, first, the President spoke the truth. He doesn't care about America's financial situation, or he would be making very different decisions about the economy, tariffs, for example, and about the war, which is punishing Americans.
And JD Vance's answer, Kaitlan, you know, have you ever seen such a furious backpedal in your life? I mean, no person watching that answer would give it any credibility. He's criticizing you for your question, criticizing you for your characterization of both his answer and the President's.
How about come up with a defense for why this administration is embarking on a one-man wrecking ball against the American economy and American families? He can't do that. And you can almost see the sweat on his brow, as he's backpedaling to try to obfuscate an answer to your question.
COLLINS: Senator Tim Kaine, thank you for joining us tonight.
KAINE: Absolutely.
COLLINS: Up next. We have more on tonight's election results and what it means for the President's priorities. Joining me tonight is a former Republican senator who was up on Capitol Hill just today.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: You previously told me that anyone who assaulted a police officer on January 6th should go to prison. So, why not rule out giving them taxpayer-funded money?
VANCE: Well, Kaitlan, what I said is we're going to look at everything case-by-case. There are--
COLLINS: But why not rule it out? VANCE: Because Kaitlin, there are people who I don't know their individual circumstances, and I don't rule things out categorically when I know nothing about a person's individual circumstances.
We're not making commitments to give anybody money. We're just making commitments to look at things case-by-case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: With that answer, there, President Trump, the acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, and the Vice President, JD Vance, all declined to rule out potential taxpayer-funded payouts, even for the January 6 rioters who were convicted, by a jury of their peers, of assaulting cops on that day.
My source tonight writes about that harrowing moment and much more in his new memoir, "The Education of a Senator: From JFK to Trump." And former Republican Tennessee Senator Lamar Alexander is here. And that new book is out today.
And it's a great read because, it really does detail your time in Washington, and what you learned. And I want to ask you so much about the book. But you were actually back here today, you were up on the Hill today--
LAMAR ALEXANDER, FORMER U.S. SENATOR (R-TN), AUTHOR, "THE EDUCATION OF A SENATOR": Yes.
COLLINS: --I heard from a few, you know, astute reporters.
ALEXANDER: I saw that -- I went to the Senate spouses book club.
COLLINS: But when you were up there, you know, that Ken Paxton endorsement landed like a thunderclap from the White House.
ALEXANDER: Yes, I was glad I was in the spouses meeting instead of the senators.
COLLINS: Did you hear anything from your former colleagues about that?
ALEXANDER: No, I didn't -- I didn't really -- I didn't really see them.
COLLINS: Yes. You write a lot about being a senator and what it's like, and what your advice was always to freshman senators in the book about making the most out of -- out of -- making every day count, as you put it.
And on one of the pages in -- on page 492, you said that, The most disappointing difference to you between the first term and the second Trump term was not what the president did, but the Senate majority did and did not do.
ALEXANDER: Yes.
COLLINS: And you talked about Republican senators rarely checking abuse of, what you said was, presidential authority.
ALEXANDER: Well, that's right. I think if I were back there, I would organize a bipartisan breakfast, and we'd read -- we'd read Article I of the Constitution to each other.
Because, the Senate is completely in charge of spending money, completely in charge of tariffs, completely in charge of taxes. And the President would be better off if he listened more to the senators because, they're independent, they're broad-based, a lot of them are very good, rather than people who he can fire if he disagrees with them.
[21:50:00]
So, I would like to see -- and the -- over the last few months, they have. I mean, Ted Cruz spoke out against the FCC, called them mafioso for trying to cancel ABC. Roger Wicker said he was going to hold a hearing on Venezuela. Thom Tillis, Murkowski, Collins, McConnell, all of them are beginning to speak out more, and they should do that. That's why they're there.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, Bill Cassidy tonight came out and voted for the War Powers Resolution. Do you think you should see more Republicans voting for that, and wanting the President to come to Congress for authorization?
ALEXANDER: I think -- I think the President should want the Congress to approve what he's doing in Iran. I think he should get credit for doing what some American president is probably going to have to do, which is to use force to keep Iran from having a nuclear weapon.
I'd rather him see he do like H. W. Bush did in 1991. He asked Congress for authority. He took months to prepare for it. He got the rest of the world to support it and to pay for it. He had a limited objective. He reached his objective and got out. So, he didn't really want to ask the Senate for permission, but he and the second Bush, both did. I think it's in President Trump's advantage to do that.
COLLINS: You write about January 6th. You had retired just a few days before that happened.
ALEXANDER: Right.
COLLINS: And you talk in your book about coming back to the Capitol two days after--
ALEXANDER: Yes.
COLLINS: --and seeing the destruction yourself. And I know you thought that the President's pardons of the defendants were disturbing.
ALEXANDER: No, they were--
COLLINS: As you write in your book.
ALEXANDER: They were. I mean, they -- I mean, George Washington said that the most important election in our new country was not the first one, but the second one, the peaceful transfer of power from one administration to the other. And to see that not happen, and to see the Capitol destroyed like that, three days after I left, really turned my stomach.
COLLINS: So, what do you make of this new Justice Department fund? Where, you know, the question that keeps getting asked is, is not even just about all the January 6 rioters who ransacked the Capitol. It's mainly focusing on the ones who attacked cops that day, and the administration is not ruling out that they could get -- they could get money from this.
ALEXANDER: Well, that whole -- that sounds very fishy to me. I mean, it's Trump versus Trump, and then they're going to create a fund and pay who he wants a lot of money. It shouldn't go to people who attacked the Capitol to overturn a certified election and hurt 140 Capitol police officers. I hope he doesn't. That would be wrong.
COLLINS: You think they should rule that out?
ALEXANDER: They should, sure.
COLLINS: Because they expanded on it today and said that there's also a pledge from the IRS to no longer pursue claims that they may have against Trump, his family members, or his companies, over unpaid taxes.
ALEXANDER: Well, that's also -- that's also very strange.
You know, President Trump has done a lot of good things on taxes, on nuclear power, on the southern border. I wish he'd stick to that and stay away from revisiting January 6th and going after his opponents.
This business of going after people like John Cornyn, who's a respected Republican leader, who's voted with him 99 percent of the time, if he keeps purging Republicans who support him all the time, his majority will go from 53 on down to the 40s. In the next seven months, he won't be able to pass anything.
COLLINS: You think they might hand Texas to Democrats, potentially?
ALEXANDER: Well, I don't -- I don't know that. I hope John Cornyn wins in a week from now. He won the first primary. He's well-respected in Texas. Let's see if he can win.
COLLINS: You know, you were Chairman of the Health Committee when you were here in Washington.
ALEXANDER: Right.
COLLINS: And you got a massive Act passed that had this multi-billion dollar infusion of federal money. A lot of it that we saw came to bear fruit during the pandemic.
When you look at that, and you look at what's happening with the nation's health system now, the leadership at HHS, what's your view of that?
ALEXANDER: After the pardon of the January 6 rioters, I think the biggest Trump mistake has been cutting funding from medical research, just at a time when medical miracles are happening.
I'd prefer to see him take credit for what he did in the first term. You know, he -- the COVID vaccine, the diagnostic tests, the cures -- the 21st Century Cures Act, implementation of it, the -- getting that vaccine out to so many people so fast, that was probably the most successful thing that the federal government has done since the Manhattan Project creating the atom bomb, and the researchers for the vaccine won a Nobel Prize for it.
President Trump deserves credit for that. He won't take it. I'd like to see him take credit for it, and get his current Health Secretary to agree with him on that.
COLLINS: You also write a lot in the book about not just your time here in Washington, but also your wife, Honey--
ALEXANDER: Yes.
COLLINS: --and just your life with her and her out campaigning for you and all of that. What was it like to reflect on that in the book?
ALEXANDER: Well, that was the most important part of the book. I mean, I got -- we got married when I was working for Richard Nixon in 1969, 1970. I worked with 10 presidents. And Honey has been with me that whole time. Her whole -- our whole married life was that way until she -- until she had a stroke just before I left the Senate.
[21:55:00]
But she -- she was so good about that. First, she'd say, First, I want to know, why are you running, and what do you hope to accomplish? And if I could tell her that, then she'd take off and go visit 80 Iowa counties and introduce herself to people who had never heard of me.
COLLINS: I love that.
The book is wonderful, Senator.
ALEXANDER: Thank you.
COLLINS: And thank you for writing it. And thank you for joining us tonight.
ALEXANDER: Thank you, Kaitlan. Thanks for having me.
COLLINS: Really appreciate your time.
ALEXANDER: On a busy night.
COLLINS: A very busy night. Great to have you.
"The Education of a Senator: From JFK to Trump" by Senator Lamar Alexander.
Up next. On this Election Night, in this busy night, we are tracking new results we just got out of Georgia. Republicans are in a very fierce showdown there. We'll tell you the latest, right after this.
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[22:00:00]
COLLINS: We have another projection for you on this Election Night, this time in Georgia, where Congressman Mike Collins will advance to a runoff in the Republican primary for the Senate set for June 16th.
Now, Collins has closely aligned himself with the President's MAGA agenda. We don't yet know who his runoff opponent is going to be. Derek Dooley and Buddy Carter are both head-to-head right now for a second spot on that ballot. Now, the winner of that runoff is going to face Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff in November.
More updates to come.
Thanks for joining us here tonight.
Our special coverage of Election Night in America continues with "CNN NEWSNIGHT."
