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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Sources: Trump's Intel Pick Had No Security Clearance; Trump Makes Pitch To WI Farmers Hard-Hit By Tariffs, High Prices; Platner Rallies With Khanna As New Scandals Rock His Campaign. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 05, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONATHAN HAIDT, SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGIST, AT NYU'S STERN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS, AUTHOR, "THE ANXIOUS GENERATION": But once they developed the attention economy and the business model of capturing attention, all of these devices and technologies are super-easy to use.
So, your kid -- you know, if you protect your kid from all of this damage until they're, say, 16, and then they get -- they start using AI and AI companions and social media, and all that, they're going to learn it in a few weeks, maybe a few months.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Well, I love the work you're doing, Jonathan Haidt. Thank you so much.
HAIDT: Thank you, Anderson.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, that's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE" starts now. Have a great weekend. I'll see you, Monday.
DANA BASH, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. President Trump reveals why he is installing a staunch loyalist with no intel experience to be the nation's acting intel chief.
I'm Dana Bash, in for Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, President Trump is delivering clear marching orders to his newly-appointed acting Director of National Intelligence: Clean House.
In a new interview with The Wall Street Journal, the President said he wants Bill Pulte to start the process of gutting the nation's intelligence community when he takes over next month. Quote, "I'd like to see it smaller. I think there are a lot of people in there that shouldn't be there." He pointed to holdover employees from the Biden and Obama administrations.
The President admitted that Pulte's status as acting Director, someone who doesn't have to withstand the standard scrutiny of Senate confirmation, will make him more effective. Quote, "You're less shackled," "It sort of gives you more power, you know, for a somewhat limited period of time," he said.
Trump also told The Journal, he would like Pulte to release more classified documents related to the 2020 election. When asked what kind of documents he has in mind, Trump replied, quote, "I would say everything -- he should look at everything and make a determination."
And there you have it, a clear admission, why Trump wants Pulte, a wealthy businessman and current Director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, in this role.
Here's more of what the President said about Pulte, this time to reporters, on Air Force One.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Why do you want Bill Pulte to cut the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and how long is he going to be in that role?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Depends on how long it takes to get somebody approved. He'll do a very good job. He'll watch it closely. But Bill Pulte is very good, he's very talented.
REPORTER: And you want him to cut the number of people working there?
TRUMP: I wouldn't mind. I've heard that's way too high for way too long. Yes, I wouldn't mind. If he cut, I wouldn't mind that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: The President is giving Pulte the greenlight, to take an ax to the office that was created in the aftermath of 9/11, to oversee all 18 intelligence agencies and avoid another catastrophic intelligence failure.
And tonight, sources tell CNN that not only does Pulte lack any intel or national security experience, he also lacked even the lowest form of security clearance when he was named to the job. We're told, the administration just started the vetting process yesterday. For the record, that kind of thing usually happens before any nomination.
As for what Pulte does have, that landed him this role? He has proven himself to be a loyal attack dog for President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL PULTE, DIRECTOR OF U.S. FEDERAL HOUSING, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S INTEL PICK: A lot of the Democrats, Joe Biden, Pocahontas, et cetera, they talked about this for a long time. They said, Oh, we'd like to do it.
President Trump is now taking action.
I saw something online, last night, about how 2026 is like the Year of Trump. It is.
We have a president who is extremely competent. The President is unlike Biden. Biden didn't even know what inflation was. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: My lead sources tonight are:
POLITICO White House Bureau Chief, Dasha Burns.
Former Deputy Director of National Intelligence, Beth Sanner.
And former federal prosecutor, Elie Honig.
Good evening, and happy Friday.
Beth, you have such a deep understanding of what this agency is supposed to do. You helped run it for a time. What is your take on the directive that the President is giving to Bill Pulte by putting him in this temporary position?
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: To me, it's just opposite world, right? I mean, it's literally what the DNI is not supposed to be doing it. It is not supposed to be involving itself in domestic affairs or in elections, other than looking at foreign influence efforts. And in fact they removed the office within ODNI, under Tulsi Gabbard, that was assigned to do looking at foreign malign influence. That center is now gone.
[21:05:00]
So, I really -- I think it's -- it's puzzling, but it's also should be very, very worrisome to all Americans, to the oversight committees because, this -- the DNI has no authority to be doing anything operational, anything related to law enforcement, things related to domestic issues.
BASH: And can you just put in perspective the notion of somebody going in, even temporarily, to run these 18 intelligence agencies with no -- not even the lowest security clearance--
SANNER: Right.
BASH: --before getting this job.
SANNER: I've been trying to think about this. I mean, yesterday, I said it's like, you know, putting me in charge of his job because, I own a mortgage, you know? But I think it's almost like I watch "The Pitt" on TV, and so I'm going to go in and do surgery because, I love "The Pitt" and--
DASHA BURNS, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, POLITICO: I learned a lot from that show.
SANNER: Yes, exactly. And I put -- Dasha is going to do surgery. And then, I'm going to say -- the President says, Oh, Dasha, you need this -- this patient has cancer. I want you to cut out all the cancer. And we don't even know if the patient has cancer, but Dasha has been assigned to cut out the cancer so -- because she watches "The Pitt." That's kind of-- BURNS: I'll do my best.
BASH: That's kind of what it's like.
BURNS: I'll do my best.
BASH: Yes.
SANNER: Because this is the most complex, crazily difficult multitude of enterprises to understand. It's arcane. It's difficult. It's technical. It requires an immense amount of judgment that's based on logged hours, experience.
BASH: Yes.
SANNER: And I don't see how anyone can do that without even having an inkling of what an intelligence report is about.
BASH: Dasha, I want to play some of what the President's fellow Republicans, some of them, said about Pulte's appointment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): I see no -- no evidence of any qualifications for that job.
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I think he's the worst form of sycophant and adviser to the President.
SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): I think he's a funny pick, to say the least.
REP. BRIAN FITZPATRICK (R-PA): The guy's got no national security experience.
I've had zero interaction with him, and that's a concern.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: OK. So, this is after there was pushback, and still is pushback, from the President's fellow Republicans, on the ballroom funding, on the weaponization fund. It's another example of Republicans kind of finally pushing back. But to what end? And what power do they have, really?
BURNS: Right. Well, and it's also part of the reason why you heard the President say, on Air Force One, that he's not going to be in this role permanently.
BASH: Right.
BURNS: He sees the writing on the wall that he's not going to be able to get confirmed.
But I will say, it's not just those Republicans on the Hill that are speaking out. Bill Pulte has been someone who has frustrated folks inside of the West Wing for many, many months because, he has a direct line to the President. He has made himself very close to Trump. A source close to Pulte told me that he wasn't surprised by this nomination because, he and Trump are, quote, Bros.
I did some reporting a few months ago. Pulte was behind the 50-year mortgage plan that ultimately was shot down. But he brought a poster board to the President on the Trump golf course with the picture of Trump and a picture of FDR, who did the 30-year mortgage -- 50-year mortgage on the -- on the Trump side, and convinced the President to put out a Truth Social saying that. So, he knows how to communicate with Trump, and my sources tell me that he's been working it to get a higher-level position with that relationship.
BASH: Elie, a senator who is disgusted with this move, sent me a text, pointing out the law that helped set up the DNI. And here's part of what that law says, which is, Any individual nominated for appointment as Director of National Intelligence shall have extensive national security experience.
Now, the expectation in this law was that it was for a permanent Senate-confirmed DNI. So, what are the rules, or are there rules in the law for what the President is doing here, which is finding a big fat loophole, an acting DNI who can stay for 210 days?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Right, Dana. So just historical context. The law that created the Office of the DNI was passed after and because of 9/11, it was passed in 2004, in order to coordinate among those 18 intel agencies.
And this law, as you said, has really two specific requirements. First, the person has to be nominated by the President, confirmed by the Senate. And second, that provision you read, the person has to have, quote, Extensive national security expertise.
Now, the acting laws, which allow a President to put a temporary placeholder in for up to 210 days. They're not intended to be an end run. They're not intended to void the substantive expertise requirements that apply here.
So, if the President tries to put this person in, there's not a heck of a lot that the Senate can do, though. They don't have to confirm him, he's just there in an acting capacity. So, this is where political pressure rather than legal recourse really kicks in. And if you see enough senators repeating the types of things that we just heard from Senator Tillis and Thune and others--
BASH: Yes.
HONIG: --then that could dissuade the President from going down this road.
[21:10:00]
BASH: Especially since, Beth, this is a president who really doesn't hide the ball much, when it comes to the things that he really wants to do. Listen to what he said, another part of what he said, to The Wall Street Journal, about why he wants Pulte in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He's not going to be permanent because, you know, I don't think he'd want to be permanent. But he's a very smart guy and he may find out some things about the rigged elections, et cetera, et cetera. I think he'd like to do it. I'd like to -- I think he wants to do it very much. Got a lot of energy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Ding, ding, ding, ding.
SANNER: Yes.
BASH: Just underscore that.
SANNER: Yes.
BASH: Rigged elections.
This is a man, and Dasha was alluding to this, who became a Trump favorite because he and his obscure Housing Agency found ways to go after the President's perceived political enemies and their mortgages.
SANNER: Right.
BASH: And so, the fact that the President is talking about rigged elections certainly suggests that he is expecting Pulte to use his position, as acting DNI, to help talk about, and maybe even uncover things that the President thinks will be helpful to prove, that 2020 really went his way.
SANNER: Right. I mean, he can, under this position, he'll be given access -- he'll be given an interim security clearance. He'll be able to access any intelligence in the U.S. intelligence community. That is what this role is. You cannot say no. Not really.
And so, it gives this person enormous power. And under that because, a person without experience, but with a goal in mind, is likely to cherry-pick and declassify information that fills this narrative.
BASH: Yes.
SANNER: I mean, I can find an intelligence report that supports my position because there are--
BASH: Yes.
SANNER: --crazy intelligence reports.
BURNS: Well, and it's not just backwards-looking. Let's think about this. He's already casting doubt on what's happening in California with the delayed ballot counting. And these agencies that we're talking about here, let's not forget, this is where MAGA is most concerned. These -- the intel community is what the MAGA base has been most skeptical of in the government. This is the deep state that the President had talked about--
BASH: That's right.
BURNS: --for years and years and years. And so, MAGA is thrilled to see a Trump loyalist oversee these agencies, especially in a time when we got 2026 midterms and then 2028 coming.
BASH: And I'm glad you said, this isn't just retrospective, it's current and even prospective.
Elie. Today, right now, CNN has some new reporting that the Justice Department sent one of its attorneys to observe ballot processing in Los Angeles. It comes after the President claimed that the U.S. Attorney's office was investigating the vote counting, which is slow in California, and sadly always is. Is this a typical thing for the White House to do?
HONIG: Well, Dana, DOJ does typically -- it's actually not uncommon for DOJ, to send out assistant U.S. attorneys, prosecutors, and law enforcement agents around the country to various election sites, to polling sites, and to ballot counting sites. Not to intimidate, but to be there to consult if necessary, and to really try to head off problems.
And so, the question -- and we acknowledge that in our reporting, in the article you just cited.
BASH: Right.
HONIG: The question here, first of all, is, is there any basis for suspicion? Yes, it takes way too long in California. Is there basis for suspicion that there's something fraudulent beyond that? Who exactly is getting sent out there, and what exactly is that person doing?
I know people who've gotten sent on this duty, and your job is to be helpful, your job is to reassure poll workers and voters. And so, it's all about the details. What exactly is this person doing? So, I think it's something that bears watching, but it's not truly outrageous that this is done on its face.
BASH: Yes. And listen, I mean, you worked in administrations where that happened as a matter, of course.
But the context around this, Dasha, is not only the President's sowing doubt on what's happening with the vote count in California. But in conservative media, it is just, it's all over the place, claiming fraud without any basis.
BURNS: It has become almost banal in Trump world, and MAGA world, and the conservative ecosystem, to claim that not only was the 2020 election rigged, but that Democrats might try to do this with 2026 and beyond. I cannot remember a speech from the President that has not included some reference to him winning the 2020 election. I mean, it is so ingrained now, and it's--
BASH: They're trying to undermine California--
(CROSSTALK)
BURNS: And they're trying to undermine California -- I mean, that -- but that's what I'm saying, like the groundwork has been laid for so long--
BASH: Right.
BURNS: --that it's almost a fact to folks in this universe.
BASH: Dasha. Beth. Elie. Thank you so much, all of you.
Up next. President Trump takes his midterm pitch on the road to Wisconsin farmers. My source tonight calls Trump's stop an out-of- touch visit by an out-of-touch president. Wisconsin's former lieutenant governor joins me next.
Plus, the candidate, in a state Democrats think is a must-win to take back control of the Senate, speaking out tonight. What Graham Platner just said at a rally about the latest troubling stories from his past.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Today, we're celebrating the historic strides for some of the most loyal, hardworking patriots anywhere in the nation, and they're really called our American farmers, and we're with you a 1,000 percent, or I wouldn't be here.
[21:20:00]
90 days. Watch what happens. You're going to be better, better than you were four months ago.
What happened to you is artificial with the energy, and with the fertilizer.
You've seen fertilizer go up, and you've seen energy go up. It's going to come down to where it was, or lower.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: That's President Trump, earlier tonight, renewing his pitch to American farmers, this time in the battleground Wisconsin, where Republican Congressman Derrick Van Orden is locked in one of the most competitive midterm contests that will determine control of the House.
The White House branding, Fighting for American Farmers, a blazing sign that signaled the GOP knows this is a critical voting bloc, and it's one that's gotten slammed by the President's tariffs and now face soaring fuel and fertilizer prices as a result of the Iran war.
My source in Wisconsin tonight is the state's former Lieutenant Governor, Mandela Barnes, who is now running to be the Badger State's Democratic nominee for governor.
Thank you so much for being here.
This was the President's first time in Wisconsin since he won your state in 2024. Did being on the ground there today give him a realistic understanding of what farmers are facing?
MANDELA BARNES, (D) FORMER WISCONSIN LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, (D) CANDIDATE FOR WISCONSIN GOVERNOR: Of course, it didn't give him a realistic understanding. And honestly, the slogan should have been Fighting American Farmers because that's what it's felt like for all this time.
Now, a couple days prior to his visit, I made a stop in the Chippewa Valley, the same exact county that Donald Trump was in, and I had my own roundtable discussion with a group of family farmers who aired their grievances, who talked about how they have absolutely been failed by the President.
He said, Things are going to get better in a few weeks. Well, the fact is things have gotten worse because of Donald Trump's poor decision- making, and Tom Tiffany has been with him every step of the way.
This illegal war in Iran that has cost or driven up fuel costs for people, the tariffs, the devastating impact that has made it difficult for our small businesses and our family farms. A lot of places have gone out of business. We've seen record farm bankruptcies. And it wasn't easy before, but Donald Trump has made a bad situation even worse.
BASH: Right.
BARNES: Rural Wisconsin has been good to Donald Trump. Donald Trump has not been good to rural Wisconsin or rural America.
BASH: The President was also there to support Congressman Derrick Van Orden's reelection campaign.
Two members of the President's cabinet recently visited this district. Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins was there today. HHS Secretary RFK Jr. was there earlier this week.
I want you to listen to what Van Orden said to voters during that stop.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DERRICK VAN ORDEN (R-WI): I think for decades rural America has been forgotten by Washington, D.C. They think we're just a bunch of rubes out here. If you walk in that, that booth right there, there's a robot that is an incredibly sophisticated piece of equipment that's integrated with these RFID tags, with the feeding system, with the nutrition system. So, Washington, D.C. just forgets about rural America.
It is abundantly clear by the amount of Cabinet-level secretaries that are here that the Trump administration cares about rural America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: What do you say to Van Orden and his supporters who have pointed to the administration efforts to distribute $12 billion in aid to farmers?
BARNES: Well, based on Derrick Van Orden's behavior, earlier today, it seems like he forgets a lot of things.
And I'm going to say that based on what I have heard, based on what we've talked about so many times in the past, while I was lieutenant governor. It was the first round of Donald Trump's tariffs. And one of the guys told me at a farm I was visiting, he said, when I asked him, I said, Well, what is going to be the impact of these tariffs? He said, You're asking me if this is going to be the death knell of rural America, then the answer is yes.
And now there is a second round of tariffs. So, even for the folks who have been resilient, who have been able to get back on their feet, and have been able to compete, in spite of. The fact is, it feels like everything Donald Trump is doing is actually making it worse. And we're not even talking about issues like health care and overall affordability. These are areas where Donald Trump has not just left people behind, but absolutely made it worse.
The rollback of the Affordable Care Act tax credits, that's going to drive up costs for our family farmers. Our farm bankruptcies are up 700 percent. I've talked to folks who've gotten letters, saying that their health insurance premiums were going to increase from $275 a month to over $1,600 a month. These are people who said they ripped up the letter because they aren't going to be able to afford health insurance.
BASH: Right.
BARNES: Donald Trump is ruining quality of life, not just in rural America, but all across Wisconsin.
BASH: I do want to ask you about the economic data that we saw today. The economy added a 172,000 jobs last month. That's beyond expectations, and it moved up the numbers from the last two months as well. AAA says gas prices are now down about $0.20 per gallon in a week. It's the second week of decline.
Do you think the White House is doing some of the things right on the economy that it's talking about?
[21:25:00] BARNES: Well, you don't get credit for putting a band aid on the stab wounds that have been inflicted upon most Americans. Gas prices are down just a little bit, but think about how high they went up, and the fact that we aren't anywhere near where we were before Donald Trump decided that he wanted to launch an illegal war of choice.
So, no, the Trump administration does not get credit for what is somewhat of a rebound of an incredibly difficult situation. Because, things are still very bad. People are still paying way more for everything they have that has a price tag, whether it's gas, whether it's groceries, whether it's utility bills, whether it's housing. There is no end in sight with this administration.
There is every reason for people to be frustrated and to carry out that frustration this November. That's why I'm running for governor. People who are interested in the campaign, mandelabarnes.com, would love to have you on board because, Tom Tiffany has been with Donald Trump every step of the way, as a member of Congress. He said, these tariffs were a good thing. He suggested to folks who might be afraid of losing their jobs to artificial intelligence that they should just get a new job.
BASH: Right.
BARNES: So, please join this fight to make sure we stop Tom Tiffany from becoming the governor of Wisconsin, and we stop Trumpism in America.
BASH: OK. Mandela Barnes, former lieutenant governor and, as you just heard, candidate for governor this time around, thanks for being here.
BARNES: Thank you so much.
BASH: Up next. It is business as usual for Maine Senate hopeful Graham Platner, publicly at least. He just wrapped up a major campaign event in his home state of Maine. As scandals threaten his candidacy, we're going to discuss the elephant in the room with a political panel, next.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BASH: Tonight, Graham Platner, the scandal-plagued Democratic Senate candidate for Maine, is forcefully pushing back. And this time, he had the help of progressive Congressman Ro Khanna.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM PLATNER, (D) MAINE SENATE CANDIDATE: Since the beginning, Maine, you had my back.
When hurtful things I said on the internet, a decade ago, came out into the public, as I shared my personal journey through PTSD and darkness, of recovery and accountability and growth. Maine had my back. (CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
PLATNER: Now, as every single piece of that past and journey gets dug up, litigated, and weaponized, you have my back.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): No one should make excuses for his past relationships, some of which were toxic and volatile. And no one on our side should attack the women who came forward. You know why? Because Democrats believe in respecting the equality and the dignity of women, and we always will.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, Democrats see Maine's Senate race as a critical one to win if they want to take back the Senate this November.
But the latest blow to Platner's campaign came last night, in a New York Times story, in which three of Platner's ex-girlfriends described volatile and, quote, "Toxic" relationships, including allegations of heavy drinking, infidelity, demeaning behavior toward women and, in one account, physical intimidation.
Platner has strongly disputed any claims of physical intimidation or altercations, and he says, one of the women lied about allegations of physical abuse.
The report also raised new questions about his controversial chest tattoo of a Nazi symbol that he covered, after it was reported about.
All of this, after stories emerged, last week, about an alleged extramarital sexting situation.
I want to bring in my political sources.
Paul Begala, a Democratic strategist.
And Ramesh Ponnuru, Editor of the National Review, and contributing columnist for The Washington Post.
Thank you both for being here.
Paul, I'm going to start with you.
The primary in Maine is Tuesday. Janet Mills, the Governor who was the initial pick of the Democratic establishment here in Washington, is technically still on the ballot. What do you think is going to happen once voters actually take their votes? Because there's a lot of confusion about what she wants people to do, despite the fact that there's also a lot of tension among some Democratic voters about what to do.
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes, I supported Janet Mills, which is -- full disclosure, right? I thought she was a better choice for a host of reasons. She's more moderate, I'm more of a moderate Democrat. Also because she has run and won in Maine before. She'd been vetted.
But she's suspended her campaign, and she can't restart it in 72 hours and have any chance of winning on Tuesday. Just being honest. So, Maine Democrats are going to make their choice.
[21:35:00]
I will say, right now, Graham Platner, I thought he gave a pretty good interview, last night. I think he's doing his best now. But his immune system is very weak, right? He gets another couple of stories like this? And it is auf wiedersehen, Graham.
That said, if he doesn't get more stories like this, and he's able to recover from this, he can move forward and focus the way I think Ro Khanna did in that clip. Congressman Khanna talked about women and their dignity, which is an odd thing to say when you're standing with a guy who's been in toxic relationships.
But here's why I think Susan Collins, the incumbent senator, has no credibility on that. If you care about those issues? I think Platner's conduct is really troubling. But if you do, Collins' record is even more troubling.
She confirmed Brett Kavanaugh, who was accused of far worse than Graham Platner, far worse. He denies it. But he was accused of many things. And then he got on the Supreme Court, repealed Roe versus Wade.
She confirmed Bobby Kennedy Jr., accused of far worse things. Kennedy has apologized for that, said he doesn't remember it.
She votes almost all the time with Donald Trump, who was adjudicated by a court in New York, nine to nothing, liable for sexually abusing E. Jean Carroll.
So, if those -- if those are your choices, actually I think it's not a great choice, but I think Collins has no credibility on these issues.
BASH: Well, speaking of Susan Collins. Today, well, I guess early this morning, maybe late last night, depending how you look at it, Susan Collins cast her 10,000th consecutive vote, which made Senate history.
And I keep thinking about the fact that this was a big accomplishment for her. And yet, she's somebody running against Graham Platner, likely, depending on what happens in this primary and beyond, whose whole MO is that kind of record and experience, is exactly what got people in Maine into the economic mess that they're in. Fair or not, there's such a huge contrast.
RAMESH PONNURU, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST, EDITOR, NATIONAL REVIEW: Senator Collins, even though she's a longtime incumbent, somehow is also always the underdog. If you remember, six years ago, she was well behind in all the polling in that race, and yet she won. And in fact, it was the biggest poll miss of the cycle.
I think, this time, she's also the underdog, in the sense that Maine is a Democratic-leaning state. And she never underestimates the challenge in front of her, and I suspect that when she engages, she's going to find that Graham Platner offers a target-rich environment.
Even today, they do not have their stories straight.
Ro Khanna gets up and says, Don't attack the woman, believe women, we respect women.
Platner's saying, Actually, this accuser is a politically-motivated liar.
They can't get their story together, and part of the reason is his serial dishonesty as a candidate.
BASH: Well, on that note. There is division, Paul, among Democrats. I would say, most of them are saying, Let's wait and see what else happens, and they're sort of tepidly sticking by him.
But not everybody. Listen to Democratic Congresswoman Madeleine Dean, who talked to Boris Sanchez today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): I think it's so distressing, all of the stories that are coming out, and there're more and more, it seems, by the hour. I'm not a voter in Maine, but he has disqualified himself in my eyes. He is not qualified to be a Representative, a Senator. We'll see what Maine does about it, and I know Governor Mills remains on the ballot. But he has disqualified himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Paul, it's so fascinating because, I was listening to Graham Platner's speech, earlier tonight, in Maine, and he does hit all of the notes that you and other Democratic strategists have been begging Democratic candidates to hit, about feeling people's pain, and he does it in a very authentic way.
And yet, you said that -- the word, vetted. He hasn't been vetted because he's authentic and he's new. And then you end up in positions like you're in now.
How do you square that as somebody who obviously wants Democrats to win, and to do so in a way that appeals to voters of all kinds?
BEGALA: Well, I think what Democrats need to do is defend Graham Platner less, and attack Susan Collins more. I mean, it's a terrible choice that people are saying, a guy with this troubled past who has acknowledged that past, and he denies any physical intimidation, but he's admitted that he struggled with PTSD, with alcohol, and with toxic relationships. OK. That's troubling.
But then you weigh that against Trump's chief enabler in a state that has rejected Trump three times, as Ramesh points out. I don't know how anybody could give a rip snort about women's rights and confirm Brett Kavanaugh and Bobby Kennedy Jr. I'm sorry, I just don't. I'm not a woman, but I'm related to one by marriage, and I think it's kind of a -- kind of a bad deal if you care about women's rights to--
(CROSSTALK)
BASH: We're out of time, but I want to let--
BEGALA: --Bobby Kennedy, and Brett Kavanaugh, and Donald Trump.
BASH: --I want to let Ramesh--
PONNURU: I think--
BEGALA: I'm sorry.
[21:40:00]
PONNURU: I think the fact that Susan Collins is one of the few people in American history who voted to convict a president of their own party, really hurts the case that she is a Trump lackey or a Trump enabler. She voted to disqualify him from office.
BASH: We're going to have to leave it there. Paul--
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: --almost all the time.
BASH: I'm sorry, Paul.
BEGALA: Sorry.
BASH: I apologize. We'll take that--
BEGALA: I know you want to get back to the Spurs game, Dana. I'll let you get to the Spurs game--
BASH: Well we'll pick -- there's no -- no, there's no -- there's no game happening.
Paul Begala. Ramesh Ponnuru. Thank you so much for being here.
Up next. Kaitlan takes us behind the scenes at the White House as the administration navigates another consequential week here in Washington.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:45:00]
BASH: The future of President Trump's Anti-Weaponization Fund is up in the air, and primary election season is in full swing. Here's a look behind the scenes this week in Washington with Kaitlan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: We had a lawsuit against us on the weaponization. The radical- left judge ruled against it. And we'll see how that all works out.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Mr. President.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Monday, June 1.
COLLINS: President Trump's $1.8 billion Anti-Weaponization Fund, as the administration calls it, has been in serious jeopardy ever since it was announced. It has faced serious pushback, not just in the courts, where at least one court has intervened to say that no movement can happen. But now, it's also facing serious pushback from Republicans on Capitol Hill.
What you hear from the Justice Department, and what Republican senators want to hear, what do you make of that?
HONIG: Well, first of all, I want to issue a heartfelt congratulations to the United States Department of Justice for stating that it will comply with a court order that it has to comply with.
JILL KONVISER, FORMER NY STATE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Essentially, this is taxpayer money, money coming out of your pocket, my pocket, and your pocket, going into the pocket of convicted felons who attacked law enforcement.
COLLINS: Thanks, guys.
HONIG: It was fun.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Tuesday, June 2.
REP. GRACE MENG (D-NY): Mr. Attorney General, I wanted to ask a few questions about the Anti-Weaponization Fund.
TODD BLANCHE, ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL: We are not moving forward with the fund. Period.
COLLINS: When it comes to this fund, is what you heard from the acting Attorney General enough?
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): No, it's not. How many times have they told us one thing and done another?
COLLINS: In the Senate, Senator Bernie Sanders has just announced plans to introduce a new bill that would give the government a direct ownership stake in the largest American AI companies.
Can you explain how this would work?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): So, the question is, should we allow a handful of oligarchs to determine literally the future of humanity?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clear.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Wednesday, June 3.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: --Georgia.
COLLINS: Is the $1.8 billion DOJ fund dead, or is it on hold?
TRUMP: The weaponization fund was a beautiful thing.
People like you have abused our people so badly. The fake news have abused our people--
COLLINS: Well Republicans were critical of it, Mr. President--
TRUMP: Wait a minute. Be quiet.
COLLINS: --on Capitol Hill.
TRUMP: --have abused our people so badly, and you should be ashamed of yourself. You used to be a conservative.
She was a conservative from Alabama. Can you believe it? But CNN--
COLLINS: I'm still from Alabama, sir.
TRUMP: --in particular, CNN does such false reporting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, press.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, press.
TRUMP: I like the red camera, Hank (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to what DJ (ph) says.
COLLINS: I always do.
Bye, guys.
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Kaitlan, you just asked the President about this so-called Anti-Weaponization Fund. Where are we on that?
COLLINS: Now, Jake, obviously, when they announced that fund, it wasn't for people who've got bad coverage in the press. What the White House and the administration had argued, it was for people who were over-prosecuted by the Biden Justice Department.
All good. Congressman, do you think it's definitive enough, what you've heard from the White House, and from the President himself, on the future of this fund?
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): From my knowledge and understanding, the fund is dead.
COLLINS: We do have some breaking news tonight in what is a remarkable bipartisan rebuke of the President, with the House voting to end the war in Iran.
How do you think the White House is seeing this?
DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Kaitlan, they had to see this coming. Their support was crumbling.
COLLINS: Great to have you, as always.
SANGER: Good to see you.
COLLINS: Have fun in London.
You're in my world. I was in your world. I did watch what happens live yesterday with Danielle.
LUKE GULBRANSON, FORMER REALITY TV STAR: How was it? You're on with vs. How's she doing? I know she's pregnant.
COLLINS: She's good. She looks great. She's really polarizing in the Bravo universe, though. But I thought she was super-sweet.
My source tonight is also a former reality TV star who is seeking public office.
GULBRANSON: When you look at reality television and you look at what's happening in D.C., the big difference there is that reality television is entertainment for people to watch.
ON SCREEN TEXT: Thursday, June 4.
TAPPER: Todd Blanche has also been a lightning rod in the Senate over this weaponization fund. Almost $1.8 billion. Today, Republicans rejected multiple efforts to kill the fund though.
COLLINS: Because it needed that 60-vote threshold. It needed way more Republicans than were willing to cross the aisle and vote for this bill.
TAPPER: You're great.
COLLINS: OK. Show time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're shooting this.
COLLINS: Thanks.
Tonight, we're taking you inside the battle playing out right now on Capitol Hill to kill President Trump's $1.8 billion DOJ fund.
What do you think happens next?
[21:50:00]
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Well, we've got strong bipartisan majorities, both in the Senate and the House, to reject this highway robbery from the federal taxpayers.
COLLINS: Thanks to y'all. And I'll see you in the office on Monday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Up next. A family investigating their son's mysterious death uncovers his secret life. Kaitlan sat down with the man who tracked down this incredible true crime story. That conversation, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: In the fall of 2019, a 19-year-old fell from this luxury high-rise in London under mysterious circumstances. Surveillance footage from the nearby headquarters of MI6, Britain's spy agency, captured that teenager, Zac Brettler, jumping from the balcony of a fifth floor apartment into the River Thames. His body was found washed up on the riverbank, days later.
[21:55:00]
After his death, a stunning story emerged. He had been living a double life, passing him off -- himself off as the son of a Russian oligarch and the heir to a $270 million fortune.
How Zac Brettler went from an upper-middle-class family to that and the criminal underworld, and a notorious gangster that sucked him in, is all detailed in the new book, "London Falling," investigated by the acclaimed journalist, Patrick Radden Keefe, who joins me now.
And it's so great to have you here. I loved the book.
One thing I was amazed by, though, is how this story's family -- this family's story has actually -- had actually been pretty private, and you happened to kind of get to know them by chance, almost.
PATRICK RADDEN KEEFE, AUTHOR, "LONDON FALLING," STAFF WRITER, THE NEW YORKER: Yes, it was a weird thing. So, this boy, Zac Brettler, died in 2019, and the family at the time kept it quiet. It wasn't in the newspapers.
I was living in London in the summer of 2023. I was producing a TV drama for FX based on my book, "Say Nothing," this earlier book of mine. And there was a stranger on the set that day. He was a visitor of the director.
I started to chat with him, and he learned that I was a journalist with The New Yorker magazine, and he said, I might have a story for you, and he told me about this family that he knew, and their son, who had died, and then this crazy discovery they made, after he died, that he'd had this secret life posing as the son of a Russian oligarch.
COLLINS: Had the family even pieced together everything by the time you sat down with them?
RADDEN KEEFE: Not everything. They were really confused. In the first instance, they -- you know, when Zac died, there were all these questions that they had, and they sort of thought that the police would come in and investigate. And indeed, Scotland Yard said, We're going to get to the bottom of this, we'll leave no stone unturned.
But then the police kind of let it go, they didn't really get to the bottom of it. And so, the Brettlers, these parents, Matthew and Rachelle, had to kind of become detectives themselves. They had to sort of retrace their son's footsteps and figure out who was he hanging out with, how did this come about? And so, at that point, I came into the picture, and I was sort of retracing their steps in the investigation that they had done.
COLLINS: Yes.
RADDEN KEEFE: And then, I did more investigation of my own.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, and what you found was that there were many stones that were unturned.
RADDEN KEEFE: Yes, I mean, it's kind of shocking, honestly, when you think about the Metropolitan Police. I think, particularly in the U.S., we have this perception of Scotland Yard as still one of the great police forces in the world. But you go to England, you talk to people, and I think there's a sense in which the branding is still very good, but the reality is maybe not quite so good.
In this case, you had a 19-year-old kid who went off this balcony and dies in the river below, and I think that the kind of easy instinct for the police was to say, Well, look, it's probably a suicide, we don't know for sure, but probably a suicide.
Zac's parents were really convinced that it wasn't. I have to say, having spent a couple of years, working on this book, I'm convinced it wasn't a suicide. And one of the things that we learned is that he was in this apartment with a very dangerous guy, with a gangster.
COLLINS: Well, and what led him up to that was this kind of -- I mean, when you read it, it's almost unbelievable in terms of the double life that he was leading, and how he was able to pull it off in terms of making that notorious gangster think that he was -- he was someone, and he had money that he -- that he didn't, and he was a person that he wasn't.
RADDEN KEEFE: This is part of what's so extraordinary about this story, is that he was a remarkable kid. I mean, he died at 19. And he was a fabulist. I mean, this is a kid who, from quite an early age, was telling lies about himself and who he was, and his family, and so forth. But he was very savvy.
He was able to -- you know, it wasn't that he was mentally unstable. He knew exactly what was going on. He was telling different lies to different people. And it's kind of incredible. I mean, there were Russians who he persuaded that he was a Russian kid, that he came from a Russian family. There were people who worked with real oligarchs that he tricked into thinking this.
I should say, he wasn't conning these people for money. I think he didn't have that kind of a game plan. He has a kind of Talented Mr. Ripley quality to him.
COLLINS: Yes.
RADDEN KEEFE: But he wasn't actually shaking these people down. I think he just wanted to be in the room, he wanted power, he wanted influence, he wanted to get into the club, he wanted to kind of have important friends, and that was why he was doing these things and telling these lies.
COLLINS: What has the public reception for this book been like for you?
RADDEN KEEFE: It's been amazing. I've never -- this is my sixth book. I've never experienced anything quite like this in terms of how people are responding to it. I didn't know how it would go over in England because, it's quite a critical look at London from an outsider. I'm an American.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, you talk about how they let all these Russian oligarchs come in and park their money there. I mean, you talked about the way they could do that. You know, it made me think of, covering the White House, the Trump Gold Card, and unveiling that, and the way that they have set that up in the United States.
RADDEN KEEFE: You're exactly right. I mean, the crazy thing is that two decades ago, the U.K. introduced a Golden Visa program, basically saying, if you have enough money, you can come in here and buy a path to citizenship, buy a kind of permanent residence here. And a lot of fairly dodgy people came, and they welcomed them in. And I think that that's part of the reason that you get to a place where today, I think a lot of that money has been quite corrupting, I think the presence of a lot of those people has been quite corrupting.
[22:00:00]
The interesting thing for me was when I published this book in the U.K., it went straight to the top of the bestseller list in the U.K., and people there, in all the reviews, there's not a lot of people pushing back. There tends to be a reaction that says, No, this seems more or less correct, as a critique of what we've become.
COLLINS: Yes. The book is excellent. Patrick Radden Keefe, thank you for joining us to talk about it.
RADDEN KEEFE: Thank you. COLLINS: Really appreciate it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Thank you so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
