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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
ICE Pausing Most Traffic Stops After Deadly Shootings; Trump: Strikes Are Going To Get "Really Bad" Unless Iran Negotiates; Trump: Thursday Address Will Focus On "Free And Fair Elections." Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 14, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: And as he joins the Alzheimer's community, Captain Sullenberger says they will, quote, Be courageous together.
And we wish you the best, sir. Absolutely.
The news continues tonight. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: After two fatal shootings by ICE in the span of two weeks, there are key questions still unanswered tonight, including why none of the ICE agents were wearing body cameras.
What President Trump's Border Czar told me today.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, there's been a sudden and significant change from the Trump administration, after two deadly ICE shootings in less than a week. Sources say that ICE agents have now been told to suspend most vehicle stops until further notice. That marks a major reversal in the tactics that have been used repeatedly in the immigration crackdown.
These two shootings: the first in Houston, which is the nation's fourth largest city. And then days later, in Biddeford, Maine, a city of just over 20,000 people, where the Police Chief tells CNN they haven't had a fatal shooting of any kind in almost two years.
In both shootings tonight, big questions remain unanswered. Some of those could potentially be answered if the agents had been wearing body cameras. But in both shootings, agents were not wearing them.
And as a reminder, neither victim was the intended target of immigration enforcement operations.
At the White House today, I asked President Trump's Border Czar, Tom Homan, about why, given five months ago we heard from then-DHS Secretary, Kristi Noem, after those shootings in Minneapolis, where she said that the body cameras would be deployed across the nation.
Tom Homan said today, the agency is moving forward with that deployment, but added this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) K. COLLINS: Why were the ICE agents not wearing body cameras in Houston or in Maine during these two incidents?
TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: Good question. I -- you know, when the Democrats shut down the Department of Homeland Security, I was up on the Hill as part of the negotiating team to reopen the government. And they wanted body cameras. There was a $120 million in the budget they were holding up to buy those body cameras.
Now, since the Big Beautiful Bill passed, now the reconciliation bill, the body cameras have been ordered. There's a deployment schedule on the books. And right now they're -- there's Train-the-Trainer, so officers in each field office can train their officers on the use of the body cam.
So, that was delayed by the shutdown.
K. COLLINS: But that--
HOMAN: Because we all -- we all know who delayed -- we all -- we all know who shut the government down.
K. COLLINS: And to follow up, that funding was approved in April for body cameras, $20 million I believe. So why has that not been distributed? And will these arrests now--
HOMAN: Cameras were bought. One of the first thing I did in Minnesota is bring hundreds of cameras to Minnesota that were recently purchased. But there wasn't the cameras to -- to outfit every ICE agent. I was waiting up for more money. And the delay in ICE -- the DHS funding shutdown delayed a lot of that cameras.
K. COLLINS: And what is the state of distribution right now? And as these -- you just said it's a short-term--
HOMAN: That's a -- that's a question for ICE. I talked to the ICE Director last night. There's a schedule for distribution. Right now, they're in middle of Train-the-Trainer. I didn't ask for the -- for the deployment schedule, but he says he has a deployment schedule. And as soon as the Train-the-Trainer is done, the trainers will get the cameras and they'll be deploying as quickly--
K. COLLINS: But don't you see that to be extremely urgent, given right now--
HOMAN: It is urgent. We're -- they're moving as quick as they possibly -- soon as they had funding they bought them.
K. COLLINS: --we do not have video of these situations beyond witnesses?
HOMAN: As soon as they had funding they bought them.
K. COLLINS: But it's been two months since April.
HOMAN: If the Democrats wouldn't have shut down the government, it would have been a lot quicker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: So, Tom Homan says the cameras have been ordered, but it's unclear when they'll be fully distributed to where the agents in the field have them. As Tom Homan was also arguing that this pause in traffic stops by ICE in most cases will be temporary.
He also noted, in his -- according to his statistics, he said that attacks on ICE agents using cars have been up. Though I pointed out to him that even the Department of Homeland Security isn't arguing that that is what happened in Maine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOMAN: You know, I think what they're doing is taking a pause and make sure that number one, the ICE officers have everything they need to stay safe. Because vehicle attacks are up 3,400 percent, and they're going to make sure, is the training sufficient?
K. COLLINS: DHS doesn't say he was trying to hit him with their vehicle in this. They said that he was fleeing the scene and they feared for public safety. They didn't say that he was trying to use the vehicle--
HOMAN: Right, yes, look, I can't--
K. COLLINS: --to attack the officers.
[21:05:00]
HOMAN: --I can't speak to what DHS says. I'll say what I've always said, is that we're going to let the investigation play out and find out where it lands. Because we don't know how many cellphone videos are out there. We don't know if there's city cams and telephone poles. We don't -- I certainly don't know all the witness statements. I haven't seen the statement from the officers. I haven't seen the statements from other witness. We'll let the investigation play out, and where it lands, it lands.
If officers acted inappropriately or illegally, they'll be held accountable, just like they were in Minnesota. Several officers are now under criminal investigation in Minnesota because evidence showed some things were done improper. And I think Secretary Mullin is going to do the right thing. If officers acted inappropriately, they'll be handled. But let's wait for the investigation to come out.
And when you get back to body cameras, I'm full support of body cameras. I'd like to get them out as quick as possible. Because body cameras actually show an officer's innocent, like 88 percent of the time if you do -- if you look at the stats. So, they actually help ICE in their operations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: Tonight, both of Maine's senators, including Republican Susan Collins, who is in the middle of a re-election fight right now, are also arguing they want to see body cameras come to their state sooner rather than later.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): There's no excuse for it. We've known for months that this was something that was necessary. Police forces all over the country have body cameras. The ICE people should be following the same -- the same regulations and processes of police forces in New York, in Miami, in Denver, in Portland, Maine, and they have -- they have no end of money.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): This incident shows how imperative it is that we have a mandate for body-worn cameras, that not only protects the law enforcement officer but also those with whom he or she is interacting. I was on the phone with the Mayor of Biddeford today, and he told me that their police force wears body-worn cameras. So, this should be standard procedure for all ICE and Border Patrol agents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: And my first source tonight is the Mayor, that you just heard the Senator mention there, of Biddeford, Liam LaFountain.
And thank you for being here, Mayor. Obviously, so much has been going on in your city over the last few days.
On the investigation itself, have you heard anything more from federal authorities on what's going on beyond the public statement that they put out yesterday?
MAYOR LIAM LAFOUNTAIN, BIDDEFORD, MAINE: No, beyond that. And I'm just advocating that it is a full, thorough, and transparent investigation that involves Maine law enforcement, Maine people, myself. We have faith in Maine law enforcement, and we want and need them to be involved in this investigation.
K. COLLINS: Are they involved right now, based on what you know?
LAFOUNTAIN: Based on what I've heard from our federal officials, who have been very communicative with me, both Senator Collins and Senator King, and the Governor's office, they have been cooperating at this time with our Maine--
K. COLLINS: Have you had a chance to speak to the Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin, or to Tom Homan, the Border Czar?
LAFOUNTAIN: No, I have not. Most of my communication has been through Senator King's office or Senator Collins', when it comes to our federal agencies.
K. COLLINS: We had seen some tension between local officials and federal officials when shootings happened in Minneapolis. And we also saw some false statements from the Department of Homeland Security then, when it was being run by Kristi Noem. Do you have confidence in what you do hear, whether it's coming through the senators or whoever? Do you have confidence in what you're hearing from the Department of Homeland Security tonight?
LAFOUNTAIN: So long as the State of Maine is involved in this investigation, and it's full and transparent, which is what I'll continue to advocate for, to the federal government as well as our federal delegation. That's what we're asking for. Because it needs to be full, transparent, and comprehensive, involving Maine people.
K. COLLINS: Tom Homan was mentioning there, he wasn't sure if there was camera footage from nearby or from other witnesses, or on certain parts of the city.
Do you know if there is anything else that maybe hasn't become public in terms of footage of what happened here?
LAFOUNTAIN: I believe there is footage that's been circulating in the media around several buildings that have cams. But I would just offer that that would not be an issue if there were body cams on these ICE agents during their interaction with this individual. And it's completely unacceptable that there were no body cams.
As you heard in the conversation with Senator Collins that I had with her earlier today, I would also let the nation know that the City of Biddeford, we provide body cams to every single police officer in our department, and we've been doing that for the past eight years, and our police budget is less than $10 million. So, I think it can be done at a federal level.
[21:10:00]
K. COLLINS: What would you say to federal officials about the urgency for ICE agents who are doing these stops to be wearing those cameras, given what it could help us see in this situation.
LAFOUNTAIN: Well, it's too late for Joan Sebastian. But there are other people out there, and I'm sure ICE is going to be interacting with them, and I certainly don't want to be too late for them.
K. COLLINS: It was stunning for me to read that, that your city has not had a deadly shooting since 2024. And I think, in this moment, what is this like for your city?
LAFOUNTAIN: It's somber. People are scared, frightened. They're angry, frustrated for what -- we don't know all the circumstances -- but for what seems unnecessary. And we want answers, and we won't stop until we get those answers.
K. COLLINS: Mayor Liam LaFountain, thank you for taking the time to join us in such a busy time for your community. And please join us if you get any new information. We'd love to have you back.
LAFOUNTAIN: Thank you, Kaitlan.
K. COLLINS: I'm also joined tonight by: CNN's Senior Law Enforcement Analyst, and the former Deputy Director of the FBI, Andrew McCabe.
And my colleague, Priscilla Alvarez.
And Priscilla, you've been doing a ton of great reporting on this. I mean, for the administration to come out and change, even temporarily, as Tom Homan was putting it, how they are conducting this, is notable.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: On two fronts, actually.
So, there is the pause on vehicle stops. That is something that the administration has been leaning on more and more frequently to ramp up their immigration arrests and hover around those 2,000 arrests a day that the White House has wanted, and the administration has been pushing for.
And now, they are saying that they are going to pause that, as they assess and review what happened in these incidents, both in Texas and in Maine. And I should note that there is an exception here for those with criminal warrants. But even in those cases, they want ICE to work with their partners.
But on the other change, I'm also learning that an arrest team that is put together by ICE, for them to go out and conduct an arrest, they now are requiring or plan to require one -- at least one agent to have a body camera on their person, while they are distributing these cameras to the entire field. That is something that is ongoing, as you just mentioned there, and as the White House Border Czar was talking about.
So, in the span of only a few hours on the heels of both of these fatal shootings, we are seeing two notable changes, even if they are temporary, which is a departure from the way the department has postured itself before. We saw the doubling down in Minneapolis with then-Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem.
Secretary Markwayne Mullin appears to be taking a different approach here, and I think part of that, Kaitlan, is I have been told that there have been concerns within the department, that these shootings are going to erode public trust in a way that he had been trying to rebuild, while carrying out this immigration crackdown since Minneapolis.
So, there are a -- there is a lot at play here. There are concerns within the department about what has unfolded here, and they are taking a moment to assess what's going on, even if it's temporary. And of course, that also has an impact on the administration's agenda.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
What other questions do you have, Andrew, about this investigation itself beyond just what we could learn from a body camera that we don't have?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: You know, I have a lot of questions.
I think one of them, and this is a frequent question of mine, is where is the FBI in this work? And I say that not just for the killing of Mr. Guerrero yesterday, but in -- as we look back over these incidents, at least over this year, you see a pattern of not only not living up to their responsibility of conducting, what we call, color of law offense investigations, or civil rights investigations, but actually going in the other direction.
So, certainly in the case of Renee Good, in the case of Alex Pretti, investigations were opened right away to investigate assaults on law enforcement officers, just as was done in the case in Houston last week.
We know that the FBI comes in and does a thorough crime scene evaluation, and then keeps that evidence, refuses to share it with local authorities, hampering district attorneys and state's attorneys from doing the investigations of a killing on their own streets.
The evidence that they seized from the crime scene involving Renee Good, which they refused to turn over, the State of Minnesota had to sue them for it, and they finally turned it over today, or yesterday, within the last 24 hours.
So, rather than being a force of oversight and fair, complete investigations. The FBI, under its current leadership, has taken the side of facilitating ICE's ability to basically walk away from these instances scot-free.
K. COLLINS: Do we know anything else about the officers, the agents who were involved in what happened in Maine?
ALVAREZ: We're still gathering details on who they are, not only in Maine, but also in Texas.
[21:15:00]
Generally speaking, the standard protocol is that these agents would go on administrative leave for a period of time, as these investigations are ongoing.
We have seen, to your point, that there have been cases and criminal charges brought against agents. This happened in Minneapolis. Given their -- the way they told the events of an arrest with a Venezuelan man.
So, we'll see what comes out of this. Tom Homan has also talked about investigations brought against agents when they did not conduct themselves well.
But one of the questions that is also unanswered is what was their training? And not only that, but when did they join ICE? Are these veteran ICE agents? Are they newer ICE agents that were part of that massive recruiting push last year? So, those questions remain unanswered. The department has not shared who they are. But certainly we're trying to figure that out, as these investigations happen. MCCABE: I think it's important to note that that case in Minnesota, where they brought criminal charges against the agents, that happened because the case that they brought against the immigrants fell apart under questioning. They realized that the agent they were working with had actually lied about how the shooting took place, actually fired on these immigrants through the front door of their house.
Law enforcement is not a business. You send a force out on the street every day to conduct arrests, and every one of those operations carries with it the threat of violence and possible death. You reduce your odds of having those sort of horrible results by hiring the right people, by subjecting them to a standardized training that protects them from engaging in this sort of activity that might create those risks, and from supervising them closely.
None of that is being done, right now, from the results that we see on the streets, involving ICE agents. And at the same time, they're under intense pressure to reach these ridiculous numbers of 2,000 arrests a day. That is a combination of factors that leads directly to what we're seeing, and that is innocent people getting hurt and killed.
K. COLLINS: Well, I mean, that's really one of the most stunning parts of this is the person that they were going after in both of these situations was not -- or the person who was killed was not the target here. It wasn't like this was someone who was running away from them because they were actually the target. They were here legally, we believe, at least in Maine.
ALVAREZ: Or not even running away. These are when -- when ICE goes out to conduct these operations, they call them targeted operations. They have an idea of who they are going to seek. Before, they used to fill out worksheets that actually laid out, This is the target we are going out for today. They did away with those worksheets last year.
So, they're going out, and what they're finding, for example, in Houston, is when they ran the plates, that the individual that they were pursuing was undocumented, and that made them fair game. So, there was an acknowledgement: this is not the target. We don't believe this is a target based off who is the registered owner of this van. But we are going to arrest them anyways.
Because, it all comes back to numbers and this idea of collaterals, that even if you're going to arrest a target, but there is another undocumented immigrant in the vicinity, or you come across them, they too can be arrested, and that is how ICE has been operating. It's not the first time they've operated that way. But certainly, we can't stress enough how much pressure they're under to really ramp up these arrests, so that the administration can reach its historic goals.
MCCABE: Yes.
K. COLLINS: Priscilla Alvarez, great reporting.
Andrew McCabe, thank you for being here. As always.
Up next here. The President has just reversed course on that threat from 24 hours ago, when it comes to the Strait of Hormuz. What he's saying now and what we're hearing behind the scenes about what happened.
Plus, the acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, is facing a tough confirmation hearing tomorrow. Only one no-vote from a Republican could potentially end his chances of becoming attorney general. What we heard today from the Senate.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: We have breaking news this hour as the United States is now striking Iran for the fourth night in a row, and in turn, Iran's army is claiming that it just hit U.S. military assets in Jordan.
With the war fully back, and right now no sign that talks are going to be back on track anytime soon. President Trump is now threatening more strikes into next week, and also says that they could be targeting Iran's civilian infrastructure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Next week it gets really bad for them because next week comes the power plants, next week comes the bridges. We're going to knock out all their power plants, we're going to knock out all their bridges, unless they get to the table and negotiate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: A few hours ago, the United States also reimposed that naval blockade on Iranian ports, after President Trump said that the United States would act as the guardian of the Strait of Hormuz, that key waterway.
But also, I should note, when it comes to what is happening next, it's kind of hard to know. Because just 24 hours ago, we heard from the President, saying that the United States was going to charge a 20 percent fee on all cargo going through the Strait of Hormuz. Our sources here at CNN tell us that chaos ensued, as well as a lot of phone calls that happened between Gulf allies and the administration, after the President told me that it was those Gulf nations that would be paying those fees.
24 hours later, the President said he was dropping that 20 percent toll.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They said we'd love to do it a different way.
We would like to invest tremendously in the United States as opposed to charging a fee, and I like that actually because I don't think anybody should be able to charge a fee for the -- for the Strait. But we were doing it as a reimbursement. The Gulf States are going to invest a tremendous amount of money into the United States, and that was very satisfactory to me. I think it's actually much better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:25:00]
K. COLLINS: My source tonight is Congressman Jim Himes, who is the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.
Do you think that that is why the President reversed course on charging a 20 percent toll on this cargo going through the Strait?
REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): No. Look, he reversed course because, first of all, it's illegal. Second of all, he has spent the last several months, saying that there is no circumstance under which Iran could do this. So it's a little bizarre when he turns around and says, We're going to do it.
And finally, I mean, he has made life so difficult for the Persian Gulf allies. They had thriving economies. They were getting Georgetown University and the Guggenheim Museum to build there. And now they -- you know, his war has laid waste to the economic potential of these countries.
And so, when he then says, We're going to charge you 20 percent to move your oil out of the country. I think you get phone calls from people. And here's the key thing: remember, Qatar hosts an air base, Bahrain hosts a U.S. naval base, and I think these people called up the President and said, 20 percent ain't happening.
K. COLLINS: What happens if they do strike -- by, they, I mean the United States -- civilian infrastructure, power plants, and whatnot, next week, in Iran?
HIMES: You know I was just in -- that sort of hit because I was just in Ukraine a couple of weeks ago, and this is what Putin's doing. Putin is striking civilian infrastructure, hospitals, schools, bridges. And I just, you know, call me old school, but I kind of like to believe that maybe we are not in the business of committing war crimes, which attacking civilian infrastructure is.
But even if you don't want to go down the path of the laws of armed conflict, we are in a very bad place right now. Look at the price of oil. The price of oil is spiking once again, and American consumers are soon going to see that in an uptick in gasoline prices.
And so, the President is in this box of his own making, where his war failed to force regime change, it failed by all of its objectives, and now the Iranians control the Strait of Hormuz. So, the President is going to go back to claiming there's a deal, and then when there's not a deal because, the Iranians have the strategic high ground, to go back to bombing and higher oil and gasoline prices.
K. COLLINS: You mentioned Gulf allies. One of them, the Qatari government, gave the President a jumbo jet that he's now using as Air Force One. He just started using it. When he couldn't fly it from Turkey to the United Kingdom, after the NATO summit, reports emerged about security concerns. It wasn't as equipped as the old Air Force One.
The U.S. Attorney in New York, who is now going to be potentially the next Director of National Intelligence, if he gets confirmed, he's the one who signed off on those subpoenas that were issued to New York Times reporters who reported on that.
You had supported Jay Clayton previously, said you thought he should get confirmed. Do you still feel that way, now that he's subpoenaing reporters?
HIMES: Yes, you know, I've known Jay Clayton for decades. And when he was nominated, and I was looking at Bill Pulte, the acting DNI, and Jay Clayton for whom I have a lot of respect, I thought this is a very good outcome.
It is obscene. It is obscene that Jay Clayton participated in the presentation of subpoenas. And the arrival of federal agents, armed federal agents, at the homes of reporters, this is Russia stuff, right? And again, I've known Jay a long time, and it is just hugely disappointed.
Look, I know a lot of people who work for Donald Trump. John Ratcliffe, the Director of the CIA. I know a lot of these folks that work for him. And there is always the need to bend the knee and to do the things that Donald Trump wants you to do if you're going to keep those jobs.
But messing around with the independence of the media and the press, something that strikes at the heart of the First Amendment, is something that I would have thought would be so far beneath Jay Clayton that I'm just enormously disappointed that he participated.
K. COLLINS: Why do you think it's not beneath him?
HIMES: Well, I've known him for a long time.
And again, we all know that if you work for the President, you have to participate in the North Korea style, the roundtables in the Cabinet meeting and praise the dear leader and all of that stuff, and you need to say the things you need to say. Including, by the way, every confirmation hearing of every administration official when they're asked, Did the President actually -- did Joe Biden win the election of 2020? You get this song and dancing. So, we're used to that.
I expected more of Jay Clayton.
K. COLLINS: The President is giving a speech -- speaking of the 2020 election -- on Thursday. When he was asked today by reporters in the Oval Office what it's going to be about, he basically said election fraud and how to ensure that our elections in the United States are free and fair. Which they are. And I think he would agree that 2024 election was free and fair. What are your expectations for what he's going to say on Thursday?
HIMES: Well, what I fear, and needless to say, the White House is not sharing with me what they intend to do. But we see the pattern here, right? The President has never accepted that he lost the election of 2020. Tried all sorts of crazy court cases. Tried -- I mean, again, there has never been an election so litigated as the 2020 election that President Trump lost, including, by the way, his detailing and sending violent criminals to attack the Capitol of the United States in a lethal strike that killed police officers, et cetera.
[21:30:00]
So, we know this is his thing, that he needs to prove that he in fact won the election of 2020. So, what I fear he's going to do is say, Look, I've declassified this report and that report, and it turns out -- and this is a 100 percent total lie, but Trump is going to say, It turns out that our elections are not safe, and that I in fact won that election.
So, the effect is going to be now, three out of four Americans are going to say, Oh my God, we've heard this story before. There is zero evidence. We remember Rudy Giuliani at Four Seasons Landscaping and all of the nonsense.
But a few Americans are going to hear that and say, Our elections are not secure, and whatever happens if Donald Trump loses, it's because there was fraud.
And I am here to tell you, as one of the last guys out of the chamber of the House of Representatives, on January 6th, 2021, that that is a very, very dangerous moment for our democracy.
K. COLLINS: Congressman Jim Himes, thank you for joining us tonight. Appreciate your time.
Up next here for us on THE SOURCE. What else we know about that big news the President is promising to make in primetime? My legal sources and political sources are here, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:35:00]
K. COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is offering this preview of his primetime address to the nation, this Thursday, telling reporters, inside the Oval Office, that it's largely going to focus on a topic that he is fixated on, ahead of the midterm elections this November.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's really, really big news, and our country has to shape up. But that's what we're going to be talking about Thursday is it doesn't get bigger because, without free and fair elections you don't have a country. We'll be discussing other things too, but--
REPORTER: Mr. President--
TRUMP: --but it's going to be a very big announcement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: Tonight, sources are telling my colleague, Zach Cohen, that the President is expected to focus on voting machine security and the alleged efforts by foreign nations to influence elections.
My political and legal sources are here tonight.
Shermichael, are you expecting really big news on Thursday?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: When I first saw the announcement, I actually thought it was going to be about some type of progress with the deal with Iran, and I said, Finally, this is great news. Economic numbers are coming out. We have a midterm that's coming up. And then it was revealed that it was about this.
I understand the President's fixation on this. I get it. I think every American wants the elections to be secure. But why are we still talking about 2020?
I mean, I just have to be honest. I had a lunch earlier today with some folks on the Hill, some staffers, some Republicans in the House and Senate, and we actually talked about this.
And the general consensus was they want their bosses, their principals, to be back in their districts talking about cost of living, affordability, the big housing bill that just passed, in a bipartisan effort, they want to talk more about that. And you really need the President to signal to the entire party that those things are the tangible priorities headed into midterms, not the election from 2020, which most voters just don't frankly care about.
ALENCIA JOHNSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, SENIOR ADVISER, BIDEN 2020 & HARRIS 2024 CAMPAIGNS: I'm laughing because Shermichael and I are agreeing on this point, and that there are so many voters who want Donald Trump to actually talk about the cost of living and--
SINGLETON: Sure.
JOHNSON: --gas prices are still so high. Grocery prices are still high.
SINGLETON: You guys don't feel--
JOHNSON: I mean, I would. Like, listen, if I was giving some advice here on what is happening. Affordability has become the thing that has been winning for Democrats.
But that is why Donald Trump is pivoting and having this conversation to muddy in the elections because he knows his popularity is in the toilet. He understands that he's probably going to lose the House, and now some say that the Senate is in play. So right now, he's trying to use this narrative campaign to sow a bit of discord in trusting the election integrity.
Again, the 2020 election has been litigated several times. Even Republicans have agreed that it was won fairly. And yet, he wants to go back there to give his base something to hold on to in case he loses horribly and--
SINGLETON: But I think -- but I think--
JOHNSON: --in the midterms.
SINGLETON: I hear your point. But I think what the base also wants is what average independent voters want. They also have to deal with the gas prices, right? At the pump. They have to deal with the fact that their children and grandchildren can't afford their first homes.
And you talked about that popularity issue. We all know what the data suggests. But I think the President could see his numbers increase by having some type of tangible deliverables to the American people. We saw--
JOHNSON: But he's not focusing on that.
SINGLETON: No, you're right. But we saw before--
JOHNSON: He's not focusing on that.
SINGLETON: --we saw before we went back to Iran, gas prices were dropping again. Again, we just had the housing bill. These are all positive things for Republicans.
K. COLLINS: I mean, Elie, one thing that we have heard. I think Jon Ossoff thinks this is going to be about Georgia potentially. Where it's not really totally clear to us still. I was told the speech was still being written.
But listen to what the Democratic senator from Georgia had to say about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): He is reheating debunked conspiracy theories and launching bizarre new lies because he fears losing these midterm elections.
Privately, most elected Republicans in this building think the President has lost it and is dooming them to dismal losses this fall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: I mean, that's a Democratic lawmaker's take.
Legally, what are you looking for?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER STATE & FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: You know how you know there's nothing to this election fraud theory? And you know how you know they know? There have been zero criminal charges.
Here we are coming up on six years after the 2020 election. Donald Trump has been in charge of DOJ, along with Todd Blanche and Pam Bondi, for a year and a half now. Not a single criminal charge.
[21:40:00]
And this is not a DOJ that's shy about charging political causes. This is the same administration that charged Jim Comey, criminally, with a felony for 86 47 with sea shells. This is the same DOJ that charged Letitia James for a $1,000 worth of mortgage fraud. And yet, they've charged nobody, anything to do with 2020 election fraud. So, all the talk is just talk. They've not put anything behind that.
And by the way, it's too late now. We're five and a half coming on six years. The statute of limitations on almost every federal crime is five years. So, this will just be rhetoric backed by nothing.
K. COLLINS: I mean, Todd Blanche is going to be on the Hill tomorrow testifying for his confirmation hearing.
SINGLETON: He is.
K. COLLINS: I imagine someone's going to ask him about this.
SINGLETON: I'm sure they will, and I expect the acting Attorney General, who is a personal friend, I expect for him to answer the question as honestly and objectively as he can to lawmakers.
And I think that his priority will be to continue to strengthen the DOJ, to go after hardened criminals, to make sure that we're keeping those who have had crimes against them, make sure that they get their justice. That's what I expect, which is the job of the attorney general, and I expect Todd Blanche to do that job.
K. COLLINS: But one thing that's going to come up is this weaponization fund--
HONIG: Yes.
K. COLLINS: --that came out of the President suing the IRS for his tax returns being leaked.
Democratic Senator Dick Durbin came out tonight and said that Todd Blanche privately told him, that fund was a, quote, "Mistake."
OK, I read that and I was like, Wow, OK, I've never heard that before.
SINGLETON: First time.
K. COLLINS: A Justice Department spokesperson came out right after and said that his statements were being taken out of context, and that he was not part of the negotiations about the creation of that fund.
JOHNSON: Well, look, they can't even get a statement straight. They can't even figure out which side that they're talking about. But I think the thing that was really concerning for Democrats with Todd Blanche is that he is another extreme loyalist to protecting Donald Trump, not necessarily just the President, but also the person, Donald Trump. And how is that going to work in a department that is actually supposed to be non-partisan and non-political, protecting the American people?
SINGLETON: So--
K. COLLINS: I mean, Elie knows him.
(CROSSTALK)
HONIG: Yes, Shermichael--
K. COLLINS: Well, Elie knows him.
HONIG: I've known him longer than you. Not to -- not to make it a contest of that.
SINGLETON: Yes, yes, yes.
HONIG: There were--
K. COLLINS: It's to make clear -- Shermichael doesn't work with him like--
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: Yes, yes, please, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: Thank you for making that clear.
HONIG: There was a moment to me where Todd Blanche crossed the red line, and that was two months ago, when he said, and I quote, There is tons of evidence the 2020 election was rigged. Tons of evidence the 2020 election was rigged.
That is bogus. He has nothing to back that. He has to know that's bogus. And that was a signal to me that the Todd Blanche I knew and grew up with at the South District of New York had fundamentally changed in the way--
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: But I don't suspect he'll make that case tomorrow.
HONIG: Well he's said it.
SINGLETON: I don't think--
JOHNSON: Oh, no, I think--
SINGLETON: --I don't suspect he'll make that case. JOHNSON: --I think he will. Because the election thing is what the Republicans are focused on right now to sow discord.
K. COLLINS: And Trump watches these hearings closely.
Elie Honig. Alencia Johnson. Shermichael Singleton. Great to have you all here tonight.
Up next. There is a fight underway in the Democratic Party. That's between the progressives and moderates there. It was actually on full display today, not just in that crucial Michigan Senate race, also right here in Washington. My next source, a potential 2028 presidential candidate, is here to weigh in.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: Tonight, there are deep divisions within the Democratic Party that are on full display, all the way from Washington to Michigan.
On Capitol Hill, House Democrats are split over an upcoming vote on whether or not to cut aid to Israel. The party's leadership announced its opposition to this amendment today, with the Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, putting out a letter to his caucus, arguing, quote, "There are more decisive ways to achieve the urgent change necessary when it comes to the far-right Netanyahu government."
But tonight, we're also hearing from the Chair of the Progressive Caucus, who says he will still be a yes on that amendment to cut off aid. Congressman Greg Casar tells Axios, quote, a "Very sizable number of people" will be joining him in that vote.
Meanwhile, in this Democratic Senate primary race that's happening in Michigan right now, support for Israel and campaign spending has become front and center.
New totals reveal the huge outside spending in this race. That's because in the next week alone, AIPAC is going to be pouring nearly $5 million into ads through its Super PAC arm, to boost the more establishment pick in that race, that's Congresswoman Haley Stevens, over the progressive candidate, Abdul El-Sayed, who you've seen here on THE SOURCE. His campaign, the next biggest spender is only spending about $500,000. Just to put it in perspective.
My next source is a veteran Democrat who is considering a presidential run in 2028. Ambassador Rahm Emanuel.
Thank you for joining us again.
RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO JAPAN, FORMER CHICAGO MAYOR, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF UNDER OBAMA: Thanks, Kaitlan.
K. COLLINS: First off, on this House vote, what do you think is going to happen there? I mean, obviously, you're deeply familiar with Washington. Where do you think that's going to end up? And how symbolic would it be if dozens and dozens of House Dems are voting that way?
EMANUEL: Look, I think it's going to be a split where members of both parties are voting that way.
I like to remind you, Ambassador Oren for the State of Israel, back in 2021, called for eliminating taxpayer support for weapons, purchases by the State of Israel. The Prime Minister's position is that. I announced that in Tel Aviv, it should be over, and you're going to, like an ally, pay the full price, same restrictions, same requirements like any other ally. You'll keep the qualitative edge. But that's been a policy that actually the Israeli government has offered.
But that doesn't get you any closer to peace, that doesn't get you any closer to security. Which is why I outlined a 23-state solution versus as opposed to the two-state solution that doesn't have support. And the IMEC economic corridor where Israel's technological prowess would be at the center, which is actually also economically gets it out of its kind of pariah status.
[21:50:00]
You have to have more than just this vote. This doesn't deal with, and I say this from an American interest. We now have the Iran War. You had the Iraq War. America has lost 50,000 citizens who have died or are wounded permanently, spent trillions of dollars on two wars in the region. We need to work towards a peace effort rather than just constantly being dragged into war by our choice or otherwise.
K. COLLINS: When it comes to the spending here in the U.S.--
EMANUEL: Right.
K. COLLINS: --you've said you would not take money from AIPAC.
If a Democratic candidate in Michigan is getting that much support as I just laid out for Haley Stevens, do you think that's appropriate?
EMANUEL: Look, Kaitlan, I think, any time a political group becomes a political liability? They've mismanaged their politics. That's it. It's very simple. And that's what's happening in this case.
Now, look, I have a position as it relates to what I said is a 23- state solution that was sponsored by and advocated by the Arab League, which would give all -- Israel, 21 nations to recognize it. It was led by Saudi Arabia. That is a breakout moment for Israel, and that's in our interest to have two principal allies come together in that effort.
Now, I happen to think on the AIPAC effort, it's made itself an issue in this election. I think the idea, and I would say to you, when I went and did that bike trip across New Hampshire, and I did town -- you know, backyard, coffees about -- in people's living rooms. Always the issues of education, home ownership, middle class life, health care liabilities, all those issues came up. But the issue of Israel came up at every meeting. Was it the most dominant? Was it the top issue? No. But it was an issue.
And guess what? We've had, as I said, two wars in the region. You've just gone through three years of efforts, rather war there, conflict there. We need to start working on peace, and I say this -- which is why I was critical of the Prime Minister back -- going back in '09 when I was President Obama's chief of staff, and he called me publicly, a self-loathing Jew because, I said, Your housing policies will lead to isolation of Israel and lead to perpetual conflict.
Here, the Syrian government wants to work on a security agreement with Israel. I'll pay the calling cards. Pick up the phone, and call them.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
EMANUEL: The United States is sponsoring the oil pipeline between Iraq and Syria. You could cut off Hezbollah--
K. COLLINS: Yes.
EMANUEL: --from Iranian weapons.
K. COLLINS: You know--
EMANUEL: Open up -- you got three, four powers in your national security. Military power. Political persuasion. You got economic statecraft and cultural attraction. Three of the four have gone atrophied and dormant. Israel needs to activate those.
K. COLLINS: Yes, but can I ask you on--
EMANUEL: It is in our interest as a partner.
K. COLLINS: Since you're getting so many questions about this, and just because it has been.
EMANUEL: Right.
K. COLLINS: I mean, maybe it's not the first question for voters, but it's the first question for a lot of candidates, right now, in terms of separating themselves from the field.
In this Michigan race. When we're seeing Stevens, who's backed by Chuck Schumer.
EMANUEL: Right.
K. COLLINS: Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are campaigning for Abdul El-Sayed.
Who do you think is the best candidate in that race?
EMANUEL: Well, that's going to be up to the Michigan voters. I mean, I know Ms. Stevens. I don't know Abdul. I do think when you look at the general election, you got a battleground state, and you got to figure out who is the best candidate that aligns. And this is going to be true across the country. In battleground states, Democrats have to be aligned where independent voters are.
And you have a guy -- I've served with former Congressman Rogers. He almost won. You know, he came within 17 votes before. You don't have a margin of error here. I don't -- I mean, I look at this, and the safer choice is obviously the Congresswoman.
But this is a different year than ever before. I think, in this effort, in a battleground state, if you look around the country, you got one in North Carolina, you got another Senate race in Georgia, you've got obviously gubernatorial races around. This is not the year where you want to be messing up.
My view: Democrats have a great year to make major, major gains and an opportunity. This is not one to roll the dice on. But we'll see. They're going to decide that. That's not up to me.
But the question is -- really the question is: You got a governor's race in Michigan, Senate race. You also got the state House races. I was up there campaigning for the Democratic State House.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
EMANUEL: This is a big opportunity to make real big gains.
K. COLLINS: Yes, we'll see what the voters decide there, obviously.
Mr. Ambassador, thank you for joining us here tonight on THE SOURCE.
EMANUEL: Thanks, Kaitlan.
K. COLLINS: Up next. It is time for Source Code. As you know now, we give you the number at the center of a story in the news. Can you guess the story? Tonight's Source Code is 308. Back in a moment with that answer.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is 308. That's how many representatives in the House voted today to make daylight saving time permanent. 117 voted against the measure. That's a bonus Source Code.
Some states can opt out, but the so-called Sunshine Protection Act would largely do away with adjusting our clocks twice a year.
Supporters of this say that shifting that hour of daylight to the evenings, year-round, would lessen seasonal depression and allow for more time for work and play.
Opponents, though, point to the flip side. They say in some parts of the country, the sun would not rise until after 09:00 a.m., forcing kids to go to school in the dark, and making work harder for farmers.
[22:00:00]
It's unclear how the Senate will handle this and what they plan to do now.
But President Trump has supported the bill in the past, arguing before, and I'm quoting, "Hundreds of Millions of Dollars are spent every year by people, Cities, and States, being forced to change their Clocks... It's time that people can stop worrying about the 'Clock'... It will also be a very nice WIN for the Republican Party. Take it."
We will see if they do.
Thanks so much for joining us here tonight on THE SOURCE.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
