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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Praises Anti-Weaponization Fund Blanche Said He'd Drop; Trump Warns Iran Of "Last Chance" To Sign A Deal; El-Sayed, Stevens Make Final Pitches In Key Michigan Primary. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 03, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
GOV. BOB FERGUSON (D-WA): We are still trying to determine loss of life, if any, injuries, that type of thing. So, it is a, you know, it's a pretty serious situation of going through in real-time right now.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes, obviously, it just looks dire there. Unclear if they're going to get much of a break over the next few days from the weather.
Governor Bob Ferguson, we do appreciate your time tonight. We are wishing you and the people there all the best. Thank you.
FERGUSON: Thank you.
BERMAN: All right, that is all for us tonight. I'm back on at 07:00 a.m. again tomorrow.
The news continues now. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. What we know about what happened when President Trump met with Jeanine Pirro behind closed doors, hours after he said she folded like an umbrella over those claims of a botched installation at the Reflecting Pool.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, President Trump is making clear that he has the final word on his administration's legal battles, even if the people that he's chosen to fight them end up contradicting him in writing.
There have been two major developments today.
First, his acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, cut a deal to save his own nomination, putting in writing his promise to kill the President's Anti-Weaponization Fund, even as the President continued to praise that idea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: On the fund, these were people that were treated unbelievable -- 22 suicides, more than that, I think. Look at Ashli. Look at -- look at so many other things that happened. These people were treated horribly. And this fund could have given them some solace. But you know, it happens to be very popular among many quarters.
So, I view that fund as a positive, and a lot of Republicans do too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Well, that does not include the two Senate Republicans who demanded that Todd Blanche formally rescind that fund in writing. Although critics argue that nothing in Blanche's memo means it all can't be reversed after he's sworn in as Attorney General, especially given those two senators who demanded this will be out of office in five months.
Asked today if he had signed off on those concessions that Todd Blanche made to the two senators, President Trump said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I didn't look at it. All I know is that Todd Blanche is great. He's going to do a great job. Everybody knows it. And I understand, there's been a sign off. But I didn't -- I don't know what they agreed. I think Todd Blanche agreed to reconfirm things that he's already said, and what he said was OK.
REPORTER: Are there other avenues that you want to see people paid--
TRUMP: No, there's no other avenues that I know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Despite that, we are told that Todd Blanche would not have cut a deal without the blessing of the West Wing.
One thing that did not have President Trump's blessing was the decision by his handpicked attorney in Washington, Jeanine Pirro, to drop those criminal charges against the former Olympian David Hearn for alleged vandalism of the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now, we have photographs or tapes -- like moving cameras, right? We have them. Where people are on the side cutting it with a box knife was it -- so, now I'm not saying I was a 100 percent thrilled with the contractor. But the contractor was rushing. We wanted to get it open for July 4th, and we got it done. But in addition, there was vandalism.
Jeanine Pirro made a mistake. There was vandalism.
Frankly, I think she choked because the judge was really vicious. Instead of going after the people that did it, the judge went after her and went after her department. And I guess, she choked. I don't know what the hell happened.
And I was disappointed with Jeanine Pirro, really disappointed with Jeanine Pirro. She folded like an umbrella, and people get away with things, and it's a disgrace. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What the President is referencing there that he was so angry about is that late court filing that came on Friday, where not only did Jeanine Pirro's office dropped the charges against Hearn. She also said the damage to the Reflecting Pool, quote, "Was the result of a botched installation and not vandalism."
Now, Pirro's office said only after the former Olympian had been indicted did the Department of Interior provide additional documents indicating that the damage was the result of flawed installation by the contractor, and that the rush to complete the project prior to the events associated with the America 250 celebration was what caused it.
Now that acknowledgement from Pirro alone was stunning, especially given what Pirro herself said when her office indicted the former Olympian.
[21:05:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEANINE PIRRO, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: There was an effort, a violent effort, to rip up the sealant from the bottom of the pool.
We can state and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he caused damage, and that damage is over a $1,000.
REPORTER: Keying in on that, how do you prove that $1,000--
PIRRO: With an expert.
REPORTER: Is that because--
PIRRO: Come to the trial.
REPORTER: Did he have any tools, or is it just his bare hands?
PIRRO: Right now we believe it's his bare hands, both hands.
REPORTER: So, does that indicate, in your belief, that it was probably damaged before, or do you believe that he--
PIRRO: Oh, he damaged it.
REPORTER: Further. But do you believe there -- it had already been damaged before, so--
PIRRO: He damaged the pool.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That was in July.
Now, in August, her office is blaming the Department of Interior for withholding information, not the former Olympian himself for damaging the pool, which likely made for an awkward moment today at the White House when we are told the President, the Interior Secretary Doug Burgum, and Jeanine Pirro were all in the same meeting.
Our cameras at the White House spotted Jeanine Pirro and Doug Burgum walking in separately to the West Wing. Pirro left about an hour later, taking a briefcase and a large white box with her. Though we were told she was not fired and did not offer her resignation in that meeting.
What we do know is not only does her filing pit her against the President, as you heard very clearly today, but also against the public comments made by Karoline Leavitt, Doug Burgum, and yes, Jeanine Pirro.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The vandalism is very real. Despite what Tim Walz wants to say, It's an imaginary problem. No, it is not. It's a very real problem.
DOUG BURGUM, INTERIOR SECRETARY: It didn't peel off. There was -- there was -- there was vandalism. There was box -- box cutters. There have been seven arrests. There was people literally trying to destroy part of the monument.
PIRRO: Not only is a vandalism that is reflected in today's indictment, but there is a cutting of the liner of the pool at the base of the pool for several yards across the pool, and someone was intent on doing incredible damage to the pool.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Apparently, that was the contractor hired by the Department of Interior.
My legal, political, and media sources are all here to start us off tonight.
And Elie Honig, I mean, when that filing came down on Friday night, it kind of landed like an earthquake, in terms of just this sustained effort, for a month now, to say it was vandalism, it was this, and then to see such an about-face in that filing. I mean, it was so predictable what happened inside the Oval Office today.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY: But the craziest part of all this is the reason Jeanine Pirro got in trouble with the President is because she wasn't willing to abuse her prosecutorial power enough--
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Enough.
HONIG: --for his liking, right?
It's not because she called a press conference and tried to sell this nothing-little-case as the crime of the century. It's not because she overrepresented her case and held that bombastic press conference where she told us, The evidence is overwhelming, and this guy's going to have the full might of prosecutorial power come down on his head. It's not because any of those things.
It's because someone in her office, belatedly, did the right thing and threw this piece of crap case out. That's why she's in trouble. And this is indicative of what DOJ has been doing for the last year and a half. This is the latest in a long line of these abuses of prosecutorial power, and this one seems to have really hit home.
COLLINS: I mean, Brian, as someone who has covered Jeanine Pirro for as long as you have, she is someone who you know, the President handpicked to take this job.
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: He put her in there. He wanted her there. I mean, to hear him say today that she choked and folded like an umbrella was maybe shocking, but also -- not shocking, but also surprising.
STELTER: Well, I think even by his standards, it's a dramatic break from a longtime friendship.
This is not an ordinary Trump relationship. Pirro and Trump have been friends for 35 years. They go way back to the 90s. In the 90s, he once said she's sexy as hell. They would coordinate and help talking points and help each other out during Trump 1.0. And now in Trump 2.0, she's actually working for him.
So, it's a very unique relationship. This is someone Trump once called her Justice Jeanine, suggesting she could be on the Supreme Court with -- for him someday. So, this relationship is so tight, and that's what makes the schism so dramatic today.
And I think it's an example of the bubble-wrapped president, a president who was out there, making these crazed claims about the Reflecting Pool, very-hard-to-believe claims back in June, but it was given wall-to-wall treatment by MAGA media at the time. He insisted it was vandalism. The government tried to prove him right, but couldn't.
It's kind of like him saying his approval ratings are at record highs, even though they're scraping record lows. We keep seeing poll after poll showing Trump around 33 percent. But on Truth Social today, he said, My real poll numbers are the best they've ever been.
So, it's an example of how he's bubble-wrapped. He's surrounded in a bubble where he's only hearing information that he -- you know, he -- makes him feel good or makes him think he's right. But then every so often, like in this case, reality intrudes, and I guess reality only intruded because legally, the DOJ had to tell the truth maybe.
[21:10:00]
HONIG: I mean, it would be nice if they did that from the start. In this case, it came a little bit late.
STELTER: Right.
HONIG: It's interesting to hear Jeanine Pirro.
STELTER: Right.
HONIG: She tried to blame. She said, Oh, someone in my office did that without my knowledge.
Let me tell you, there is no way.
STELTER: Ah.
COLLINS: Well, can I ask you about that?
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: Because what I was told is during a heated phone call that the President and Jeanine Pirro had over the weekend, she said it was the career officials in her office--
HONIG: Right.
COLLINS: --that were responsible for that filing.
HONIG: There is no way on this earth, having been one of those career officials, that when your U.S. Attorney calls a press conference like that, that's covered on national news, you would then go and dismiss the case without looping in the U.S. Attorney. That's a fireable offense.
STELTER: Right.
HONIG: So, I do not buy that, that was done without her knowledge, for one second.
STELTER: But is the silver lining here that the truth does eventually win out? It took many weeks, and this poor person's reputation was dragged through the mud, and maybe he'll sue now to reclaim damages. But eventually, the truth did prevail here.
COLLINS: Do you -- could you see a world where the President actually fires someone that he has the relationship that he does and the history he does with Jeanine Pirro?
STELTER: I do, given what you've covered for the past decade with the President. But I think it's more likely that he'll just let her suffer, keep her in the job, make her life as difficult as possible. Does that sound right?
COLLINS: Well, I mean, David Urban, Paul Begala, you guys are both here with us.
When you look at this moment, I mean, David Urban, especially you, when you see this, and the President's harsh remarks today about Jeanine Pirro, but not yet, apparently, as of 09:10 this evening, going as far as to fire her, and she hasn't resigned based on what we've been told. What do you make of the deterioration of this relationship?
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Yes, look, it's unfortunate, number one because, we are where we are today.
I was in the Mall this morning, getting a little exercise in, early in the morning. And you go around the Mall, and it is noticeably improved. This president and Doug Burgum, the Department of Interior, the good people at the Department of Interior have really transformed Downtown Washington, D.C. outside of -- you know, there's a World War I Memorial. There's a plaza there next to it. They've -- the fountains are running everywhere in D.C. It's really a dramatic improvement where it's been recently.
And so, instead of now focusing on the 35 good things that the Department of Interior has done, we've been fixated on this pool story now for a month and a half. Rather than just saying, Look, the pool got screwed up, contractors blew it, let's move on. We're talking about something that's incredible, right? That the pool is ripped from the middle. It's like some divine intervention ripped the pool. And this -- you know, David Hearn now has a claim to -- you know, against the federal government.
It's just a lost -- another lost opportunity, I think, for the administration to point out all the good things they're doing. They're focused on one thing that just -- that's not credible, you know? It's just -- it's sad. It's a sad -- sad time.
I think that any visitor to the nation's capital over the Fourth of July holidays, or tomorrow, in the next couple weeks, will look around and see all these great improvements. And we're talking about this rip in the pool that's just not credible.
COLLINS: Paul, how do you see it?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I'm thinking about David Hearn, that the 67-year-old former Olympic -- I think he's a canoer -- a canoeist?
STELTER: Yes.
BEGALA: But he's an Olympic athlete, represented our country in the Olympics. He's 67. And he's been branded and tarred. And where does he go to get his good name back?
And to combine the two stories, I thought it was very telling that Mr. Trump feels all of this empathy for the terrorists who attacked our Capitol on January 6th. They were terrorists. They tased a hero cop, Michael Fanone, until his heart stopped. They beat other cops. They defecated in our Capitol building. It's the most unpatriotic act of domestic terrorism you can imagine. He feels sorry for them.
But now, his government is ruining the reputation of David Hearn, who apparently has done absolutely nothing wrong, and it turns out that, that he was telling the truth the whole time. So, I think that's kind of tough for Donald Trump to square. COLLINS: Yes, I mean, David Urban, when you see the agreement that they came to with Cornyn and Tillis, the two senators, on this.
URBAN: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, they said that Blanche did what they asked them to do, they're arguing that it satisfies their demands.
Critics of this deal say it could be undone--
URBAN: Yes.
COLLINS: --the day after Todd Blanche is sworn in.
URBAN: Yes, I'm not too super-concerned about it. It's wildly unpopular. That's the reason it was withdrawn in the first place. It wasn't because of some media outcries. It was an outcry amongst Republicans, not just in the Senate but in the House, people who are running. It's wildly unpopular across America. I heard the President say it's popular with certain group of people. I mean, maybe those are the January 6th folks who are convicted. That's about it.
The fund is not going anywhere. I think that you know, thinking that somehow in the future that people will be able to avail themselves of it. There is -- listen, Federal Tort Claims Act provides -- you know, you could sue -- Elie could speak to this. You know, you could sue the federal government and get money. You can get damages. Anybody can do it. Paul could do it. You can do it. I can do it.
COLLINS: Yes.
[21:15:00]
URBAN: There's a mechanism in place right now to have that. So you don't need this fund to sue the government. Mr. Hearn can get his redress in court. He can sue under the Federal Tort Claims Act for malicious prosecution, I'm sure some other kind of -- some other tort and get a settlement at some point.
So, I think the fund's dead. I think Blanche will be confirmed before they leave this week or early next week.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, the fund -- the fund itself--
URBAN: And so, the kerfuffle will be over.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, over the fund itself, you know, was rescinded in writing today.
Elie, when you looked at that deal, though, and saw -- I mean, one thing that Cornyn wanted were limits on the IRS immunity part of this. That still exists.
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, it still is something that the President and his family will enjoy.
HONIG: Those two documents that Todd Blanche posted last night that seemingly clinched his nomination? They're showpieces. They don't actually achieve anything separate from already what was the status quo.
COLLINS: You don't think it's legally binding?
HONIG: Well, so the immunity deal just clarifies what's already in the immunity deal. It just says, it only works backwards, not forwards. That was already the case.
The other one that says I, Todd Blanche, hereby declare the slush fund is dead? The problem is -- first of all, Todd Blanche had already testified about that, right? There's no difference between him testifying about that under oath, on the one hand, and putting it in writing on the other. The problem is there were two parties to that agreement.
STELTER: Right.
HONIG: There was the government. Blanche can sign for the government. Then there was Donald Trump, private individual who has not signed on to this. And they know that's a problem because in Blanche's confirmation hearing, John Cornyn asked him about that. He said basically, Well, if the President tries to bring this back to life, and Blanche said, Yes, I guess you're right, I guess then we'd litigate it in court.
So, it's kind of a lucky stroke for Blanche that it all came down to this tiny little technicality. And the fact that this meaningless piece of paper is what got him over the line--
STELTER: Well--
HONIG: --and obscured all the other problems? May have been lucky for him.
STELTER: But the--
COLLINS: Brian?
STELTER: And the way that Trump talked about it today, and the way that he wants to push hard for this fund, it's another example of the bubble wrap.
HONIG: Yes.
STELTER: The idea that he lives in a reality where the real victims were the folks who stormed the Capitol. That's the media environment we live in now, and it's the same environment that gets us to a summer-long scandal about the Reflecting Pool.
COLLINS: Yes.
STELTER: Which does sound beautiful, David. I'm sure it is beautiful in Washington. I'll come visit.
URBAN: Kaitlan, and I would just say this too: you know, let's not forget that that money, that $1.8 billion has to come from someplace, right? The President can't just click his fingers and have it magically appear in somebody's checking account. Has to be appropriated by the Congress. And I don't -- I don't think that's -- that day is coming anytime soon.
COLLINS: We shall see.
David Urban.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: --political problem with it, though.
COLLINS: Go ahead, Paul. Final thought
BEGALA: And the people are paying $4 a gallon for gas. He did -- because of Trump, we're paying $4 a gallon for gas. It was $2.95 when he took office. And now he wants to take $1.8 billion of our tax money, and give it to a bunch of his favorite thugs.
URBAN: Well, Paul, you can relax. It's not happening, Paul. You can relax. You can exhale. It's not going to happen.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: --and he's going to be the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee in the Senate if the Democrats win.
URBAN: It's not going to happen, Paul. You can relax. Exhale.
COLLINS: We shall see.
David Urban. Paul Begala. Brian Stelter. Elie Honig. It's great to have all of your voices here tonight.
Up next. What else we heard from the President today inside the Oval Office? As he said, he's giving Iran one last chance for a new deal after he called off strikes this weekend. His new plan, though, sounds pretty familiar. I'll tell you why.
Also, the future of the Democratic Party could be taking shape in 24 hours from now, as establishment and progressive Democrats are battling it out in one of the key primaries.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, despite firm denials from Iran, President Trump insists that peace talks are back on.
And despite giving Iran several chances to make a deal, the President warned from the Oval Office today that this will be the last one. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We are talking. Right now, we're talking. And we're talking at the request of Iran.
This is the last chance for them to sign a good document.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, this is at least the fifth time that the President has given Iran another chance, after threatening and then calling off massive strikes on the country over the weekend, he says.
This time, the President is siting the perimeters of a deal to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, and said that talks officially resumed today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They're going to go quickly, one way or the other. It's not very complex. We're talking about the Strait, the opening of the Strait, having it open literally by tomorrow, completely open, and that's phase one. And phase two is we then will talk about the nuclear capacity, the nuclear what -- you know, as we've been mentioning, that basically, it's I think most that -- the denuclearization of Iran, has to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, if those two phases sound familiar? That's because they are. Those are the exact terms of the memorandum of understanding that the President signed, when he was in France, back in June, before it fell apart weeks later.
Much to his frustration, Iran is denying that negotiations with the U.S. are happening at all. Instead, Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesperson says that Tehran is negotiating with Oman over a temporary safe route through the Strait.
Now, with that as the current state at play, the President said today in the Oval Office that he has big choices ahead of him, but not on Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now we have a big decision to make: Do we take the pavers that are red, you know, the red brick pavers, and do we change them into a granite, to gray granite? They're beautiful, but they're not the original. So, we're going to have to make that decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My source tonight is an expert on Iran. He is our CNN Global Affairs Analyst, Karim Sadjadpour.
And it's great to have you here, Karim.
I mean, basically, what you heard from the Oval Office today. What stood out to you from the President's comments.
KARIM SADJADPOUR, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE, IRAN EXPERT: Kaitlan, I was struck by our colleague Maggie Haberman's observation that she thinks that about 70 percent of the President's mind is focused on renovations.
[21:25:00]
And I say that because, he's dealing with an Iranian regime which is a 100 percent of the time focused on this war, focused on revenge against the United States, and the public comments coming from Tehran are totally different than President Trump. They sound victorious. They seemingly have no plans to give up the Strait or make any nuclear compromises. And the President, on a day-to-day basis, is essentially almost debating with himself about whether a deal is imminent or he will need to take military action.
But the bottom line is, I fear that we have lost deterrence against Iran. I don't think Tehran is taking either the President's words or his threats seriously anymore.
COLLINS: I mean, when he says that he's calling off strikes over the weekend because talks are back on. But then he's frustrated when they say talks are not happening. I mean, you can see why people are understandably confused at best, but skeptical of the idea of any progress happening.
SADJADPOUR: Well, indeed, that's the case, Kaitlan.
And it's one thing if you're President Trump and you're thousands of miles away from the problem. But if you are America's partners and allies living in that region -- I'm talking about Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates -- they're being bombed on a weekly basis. Their main economic artery, the Strait of Hormuz, remains closed. This is existential for them. And so, they expect much more from the United States as a steady superpower ally than to go back and forth between war and peace.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, today he said that Iran's leaders are, as he put it, unbelievably duplicitous. As you know, his biggest frustration is that they deny that talks are even happening.
SADJADPOUR: No doubt, Kaitlan, this is a malign regime. It's a brutal regime, and of course, it engages and -- and you know, this is not a credible or a trustworthy regime.
That said, over the last five months, Tehran's message has been pretty steadily consistent. Their message of resistance, of revenge, and there doesn't seem to be much of a correlation between some of the positive talks we say we're having behind the scenes and the public conduct of the Iranian regime, which has been consistently bad.
COLLINS: Yes, and this comes as tonight, you know, in terms of what's happening next here. CNN is reporting exclusively that a senior officer at the U.S. military command that is carrying out the war emailed forces and asked for, quote, "Creative and unconventional ways to pressure and punish Iran."
What does that signal to you that they are asking that question?
SADJADPOUR: Well, we know that very, very few people were involved in the planning of this war. Much of our military really didn't know this war was coming. And so, these are the kinds of conversations you would ideally want to have before undertaking such a monumental endeavor of a major war against one of the most powerful countries in the Middle East.
So, obviously, it's good that they are having those conversations, and I really hope they enlist the wisdom of people like General Petraeus, General McMaster, General Mattis. But you wish they would have had these conversations before embarking on such a monumental war.
COLLINS: Karim Sadjadpour, we shall see if they come up with any of those creative ways that they are asking about there. Thank you for joining us as always with your expertise.
SADJADPOUR: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: In 24 hours from now, there is going to be a Senate primary in Michigan. It is maybe the biggest test yet for the far-left and progressives, as they are trying to push aside more establishment Democrats ahead of the midterm elections. After that comes Wisconsin. And my source tonight is the Democratic socialist who is running for governor in that state. She'll join me right after this.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We are less than 24 hours away from the polls closing in one of the biggest Senate primary races, ahead of this November's midterm elections.
Across Michigan tonight, the challengers in the state's Democratic Senate primary made their closing pitches to voters.
Congresswoman Haley Stevens rallied in Grand Rapids, selling herself as the better choice to take on the Republican Mike Rogers, come November.
Meanwhile, her progressive challenger Abdul El-Sayed closed his campaign out in Detroit, as he is looking to take on Democratic Party leaders in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HALEY STEVENS (D-MI): There is a reason why Republicans are already spending thousands and thousands of dollars, meddling in this primary, trying to maybe get their preferred candidate. Look, when it comes to Michigan, I'd run through anyone and anything to stand up for us.
ABDUL EL-SAYED, (D) MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: This movement of ours has proven that it can come through $80 million of spending in lies because we're willing to hold with us the truth. The work is not over. We don't know what the votes will say. However, I feel pretty good about it.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:35:00]
COLLINS: Now that race is not the only one that could define the Democratic Party's direction, heading into this November, but also into 2028. There was a big shakeup, last week, in Wisconsin that was highlighted -- that has highlighted progressive momentum in the governor's race there.
The former Lieutenant Governor, Mandela Barnes, became the second Democratic candidate to drop out within a span of just two weeks. Without naming the Democratic Socialist who was leading in those primary polls, Barnes suggested, that person would likely become the party's nominee.
And my source tonight is that candidate, the Democratic Socialist, Francesca Hong.
And thank you for being here.
When it comes to Michigan, you have not endorsed in that race. Abdul El-Sayed said he's not a Democratic Socialist; he's obviously the progressive in that race. Do you want him to win tomorrow night?
FRANCESCA HONG, (D) WISCONSIN GOV. CANDIDATE, DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS OF AMERICA, (D) WISCONSIN STATE ASSEMBLY: I think that Dr. El-Sayed represents the values of voters all across Michigan, especially when it comes to lowering health care costs and ensuring that people are having more money in their pockets. And so, for me, seeing that momentum and his movement is incredibly encouraging, and I think his campaign has earned that excitement.
COLLINS: If Haley Stevens beats him tomorrow, what do you think that says about the argument that moderate Democrats are better poised to beat Republicans in November?
HONG: I think that a spirited primary is incredibly healthy for democracy. And if Haley Stevens were to win, that means that the voters came out to support their candidate.
I mean, we want to make sure, here in Wisconsin, that this is an election that voters decide. But Wisconsin is unique. We have Ron Johnson and Tammy Baldwin. It's pretty hard to measure and understand where our voters are. But that's fortunately, we've held over 350 events, have knocked over a 100,000 doors, and have a great understanding of what voters care about, and that's permanent affordability from a Wisconsin government that cares for everyone. COLLINS: Well, I mean, I think that's an interesting point. Because, as we've been watching this trend from a political perspective. Yes, a lot of Democratic Socialists have been winning in recent weeks and months, in New York and Colorado. Your race is different. You're not running in deep blue turf. It is a true political battleground in Wisconsin.
When voters might go to vote, next weekend, and look at this, and say, Well, the current governor hasn't endorsed you. He's endorsing the Democrat who's running against you. What's your argument for why voters should back you if the sitting governor in your party is not backing you?
HONG: He also didn't support his lieutenant governor in this term or his former lieutenant governor. I think that Governor Evers has every right to decide to put his thumb on the scale.
But I'd like to remind folks that this election belongs to the voters, and the candidates have to earn their vote, put in the work. Wisconsinites work hard; they work harder than most folks all across this country, and they deserve a candidate who is working just as hard to make sure that they can earn their vote, and talking about things they care about; a moratorium on AI data centers, taxing the ultrawealthy, fully funding our schools, and free childcare.
It's been an honor of my life to be able to run for governor. And I think that our campaign is showing that Wisconsinites are coming together over the issues and our shared values of care and hard work.
COLLINS: In terms of Democratic Socialists, Bill Maher had some harsh words for your movement that you are part of and that you paid dues in in your state. I want you to listen to what he had to say about what he believes is happening inside the Democratic Party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL MAHER, HOST, "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": Yes, my vote is in play. I'm not voting for anyone who thinks the wrong side won the Cold War or cheers for the Intifada like it's the World Cup. It's so ironic from the people who obsess about colonization. You know what's being colonized now? The Democratic Party.
(APPLAUSE)
MAHER: Francesca Hong, yet another major Democratic candidate who's all in on abolishing, abolishing the police, and is running for governor of Wisconsin says, I think that my perfect world would be a world without prisons because, we all see the humanity in one another, and then we know nobody's disposable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh wow.
MAHER: Well, murder victims are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What's your response to that?
HONG: No, the governor cannot defund the police, and I won't defund the police, and I am not interested in abolishing prisons.
What I am interested in is being serious about safety, and that means ensuring that law enforcement has the training that they need, and that we're holding law enforcement that break the law accountable.
[21:40:00]
It also means that we have to be tough on causes if we're going to be tough on crime and investing in the things that we know prevent crime, like funding schools, great out-of-school programs, making sure that we have mental health resources and addiction resources, good housing, and fair, healthier health care.
So, and it's -- you know, those photos that he put up, I think he had to because the real story is when you look at our campaign events and the people who are organizing repair cafes and coming together at bowling alleys and first-time voters talking to people who may not have voted in the last six years. There is an immense amount of joy and creativity and people feeling excited to be engaged in politics. That's what this campaign is about.
And we're talking about the issues that they care about. And I think it's important that we help voters feel like they belong, before we make them believe in something, and that's what's been really great about running a grassroots movement.
COLLINS: You said you don't support abolishing prisons. Do you still hold the view that you laid out in May, which was that in a perfect world it would be a world without prisons?
HONG: I think talking about what may be aspirational and then understanding the role of the governor, what they can and cannot do, and what is implementable right now. These are different conversations.
If we're going to be serious about public safety and ensure that everyone's human right to feel safe is what we are trying to do, we have to make sure that the system right now that is incarcerating more Black and Brown men than any other state in the country right now, where we have -- our schools are having to go to referenda just to try to figure out if they can keep the lights on, making sure that we are delivering solutions, not focusing on labels or slogans. Because governing, ultimately, is about making sure that we're working with our partners in communities on the issues that they care about.
COLLINS: Well, and obviously Tom Tiffany, who if you win the primary, will be the Republican that you're facing. He keeps bringing up your past positions, what you've said. He said the facts are louder than campaign spin, was his comment earlier.
You have said you do not support the full platform of the National DSA, and that you are not endorsed by DSA National. Which parts of the Democratic Socialists platform do you not support? HONG: I think looking at where the Senate is right now, abolishing the Senate when there's an opportunity for us to take that Democratic majority is not practical. I think that Democratic socialism, to me, is ultimately rooted in care and making sure that people have their needs met. It's about democracy, fairness, and human rights.
We have the -- I am one of the proudest Packers fans, our publicly- owned NFL team. I think when I talk about potholes and making sure people pay their fair share of taxes, so that we're able to fix the roads, invest in rural communities, and have Fire and EMS services that are available regardless of where you live in Wisconsin. These are the things that I'm talking about, issues that voters care about.
Tom Tiffany is having to go back to a lot of my old tweets because his actions and his resume, what he's done, is defunded health care, ripped Food Share away from our children, supported a national abortion ban, and last time I checked, he still hasn't said who won the 2020 election. Being an election denier is an automatic disqualifier. So, when you are the weakest candidate for the Republicans to put forth, it's likely that you're going to have to attack former but -- previous tweets of a candidate right now that's building a movement.
COLLINS: So, you do support the Senate, the Supreme Court, and prisons -- the existence of prisons?
HONG: Yes, I support all those things right now that are helping to ensure that there is public safety. But I do believe right now in our Supreme Court, that we should be working to expand the court.
COLLINS: You talked about your past positions that he keeps highlighting, and obviously, likely would continue to do so before November, should you win.
One thing that they brought up as well was a post from you in 2021, where you said Americans should cancel Thanksgiving, should have done this in 1621. The post has been deleted. Republicans have been highlighting it.
Do you still believe that Thanksgiving should be canceled?
HONG: I'm a chef, and one of the first meals that I made, that was for the community when I was 16, was a Thanksgiving meal. You know, I always think my hospitality background and owning a restaurant for seven, eight years that bringing folks around the table, to share conversation and build community, is always a good thing.
[21:45:00]
But Thanksgiving is also a time that's incredibly painful for many people in our communities. And so, I think there I wanted to make sure that people understood that there are multiple views. But views can evolve, and the position that I'm running for right now, and I think my background as a chef, will actually help me become a better governor that's able to bring more people to the table.
COLLINS: Francesca Hong, thank you for joining us. We hope to have you back on, depending on how things go next week in your primary.
HONG: Thank you so much for having me, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: And don't forget, tomorrow night is Election Night in America. We're going to be watching that critical race, many across the country, but especially Michigan's Democratic Senate primary. You can see our coverage here, 09:00 p.m. Eastern tomorrow night, or on the CNN app.
Coming up for us here. My next source scored the game-winning goal at the World Cup. The Spanish star, Ferran Torres, is going to join me to talk about that stunning strike to seal his team's victory, and also the story behind that Make Spain Great Again hat that he was wearing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: Few sports stars know the weight of an entire nation resting on their shoulders, especially in extra time at a historic FIFA World Cup final. Even fewer defy that pressure and deliver the game-winning goal. But that is what Ferran Torres' 106th-minute stunner so spectacular as they took down Argentina, Lionel Messi, and a sea of blue and white, and brought Spain its second FIFA World Cup victory ever.
Tonight, the 26-year-old with the most famous left foot in all of Spain is my source, the 2026 World Cup champ.
And thank you for being here.
Watching that video and your face, the minute you score that goal, is incredible to see.
FERRAN TORRES, SPANISH SOCCER STAR, SCORED SPAIN'S WINNING GOAL IN FIFA WORLD CUP FINAL: Yes, it was an special moment. Honestly, I can't believe it. It was a dream come true to score this goal and win in the World Cup. And yes, today, I just can't believe it.
COLLINS: Have you been able to, I mean, wrap your head around the fact that, that you scored the game-winning goal in the World Cup?
TORRES: Honestly, when I -- when I finished the game, I just have -- I had to go to the dressing room because I can't believe -- I didn't remember how I scored, and I needed to see -- to see it again.
COLLINS: So few people know what that feeling is like. I mean, what does winning feel like in a moment like that? Is it what you expect, or is it different? Is it relief?
TORRES: Yes, it's different, it's different feeling. It's like if you don't score this goal, you cannot feel it. Just -- it just like gets crazy and I just run to celebrate with my teammates. It was an unbelievable moment.
COLLINS: Did it make it any sweeter that it was Messi and Argentina to defeat them?
TORRES: Yes, it made me feel different because it was, for me, the best moment in my life.
COLLINS: Yes. What has your life been like since you won?
TORRES: Honestly, it changed. It changed because you can feel the difference that in the people because now I can feel that, that people recognize me more often and it's like -- I feel like -- I feel inside, the same person, but it's kind of not.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean because, the whole world knows your name now.
TORRES: Yes, and it made me feel very proud because, every kid, when he's young, dream about this moment, and I feel it in my person.
COLLINS: Well, and the next World Cup is set to be held in Spain. I mean, do you think you're going to be hoisting the trophy in your home country?
TORRES: Hopefully, but this will be to enjoy it because I have won, so I want another one. But yes, it will be an amazing atmosphere.
COLLINS: You do want another one?
TORRES: Yes, I want it.
COLLINS: At the game this year, President Trump was there. You were later seen wearing a red Make Spain Great Again hat. Where did you even get that hat from?
TORRES: Yes, it was funny moment because it was not about politics. Because honestly, I don't know about politics. It was just to be able to see Spain again on the top, winning the World Cup, and yes, it was just to have fun with my friends, with my -- with my family, and nothing about politics or nothing about -- yes, this.
COLLINS: What has your family said since you've won?
TORRES: Mine?
COLLINS: Yes.
TORRES: My family--
COLLINS: They must be so proud.
TORRES: Yes, my fam -- honestly, my mom just cry and cry and cry because she just can't believe it, and yes, it was a really top moment for them.
COLLINS: Yes. There's so many questions about your future, your professional future. You're signed with Barcelona through 2027.
TORRES: Right now, the only thing that I know is in 12th of August, I have to go to stay there and train with them. So, let's see what happens.
COLLINS: Yes, are you open to changing, PSG maybe?
TORRES: You never know because in football everything can change in one minute. So, I have to be ready for everything.
COLLINS: How do you make a decision like that? I mean, that's a big choice.
TORRES: Trying to think what is going to be the most happy thing for me--
COLLINS: Yes.
TORRES: --only this, and for my family.
COLLINS: You're in New York right now. You are going to throw out the pitch at the Yankees game. How's your arm? We know how your left foot is. How's your arm?
TORRES: I think it made me feel more nervous than even the World Cup final because everyone is going to stay there, watching me. And yes, I never threw up -- I never did that throw. So, let's see what happens.
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: Have you ever thrown a baseball before?
TORRES: No, never. It's going to be my first game, so I'm very excited.
COLLINS: So, tomorrow will be your first time?
TORRES: Yes. Yes. I'm very excited.
COLLINS: That's amazing.
Thank you so much for joining us. It's been so great to have you here.
TORRES: Glad to be here. Thank you very much.
COLLINS: And it was such a fun game to watch.
TORRES: Yes, thank you very much for having me, and yes.
COLLINS: Yes. Thank you.
TORRES: Thank you very much.
COLLINS: Up next here for us. It is time for Source Code. We give you a number at the center of a story in the news. Tonight's Source Code is 26. Can you guess what the story is? We'll be right back with the answer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is 26. That's how many days until my favorite season officially kicks off. Yes, that is college football.
[22:00:00]
In the lead up, I had the incredible chance to sit down with one of my idols, maybe my main idol, Alabama's legendary former football coach, Nick Saban, for an interview that was featured in Garden & Gun Magazine.
We talked about how he is staying busy in retirement, which isn't really retirement. He's an analyst now on College GameDay, and is still quite busy.
We also talked about his golf game which he says is, Sometimes good, sometimes bad, with no explanation or ability to understand why. As he also said he believes that golf is a metaphor for life.
And he also responded to that nickname that he got, Alabama Jones, after he wore that fedora on an especially cold GameDay at Notre Dame. He told me he was just trying to stay warm but was sent hats in response to that.
Thanks so much for joining us here tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
