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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
WAPO: Amid Iran Threat, Trump Secretly Switched Planes In Catering Truck; Trump Signs Order To Limit Childhood Vaccines, Split MMR Shots; Fight Over Democratic Party's Future Shifts To Wisconsin Governor's Race As Democratic Socialist Leads The Pack. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 10, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
RICHARD EMBLIN, DIRECTOR AND FOUNDING PARTNER, THE CITY PAPER: Vulnerable communities that we're beginning to now see that it's actually impacted everybody.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes. Richard Emblin, I really appreciate your reporting on this. And obviously, we're going to continue monitoring it throughout the night and through the day tomorrow and in the days ahead. Appreciate it, Richard Emblin.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: An Iranian assassination threat. A decoy plane. And an airport catering truck. The extraordinary new reporting on how President Trump actually got back from Turkey last month.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
We do start with breaking news tonight, and some stunning new reporting on an elaborate ruse to conceal the secret plane that President Trump used to fly out of Turkey last month.
The Washington Post reports this tonight, saying, quote, "An Iranian assassination threat against President Trump prompted an extraordinary operation last month in which he flew secretly from Turkey on an alternate military aircraft while the White House said he was aboard Air Force One."
If you look back at the video from that day now, you can see how this clandestine mission played out. President Trump was seen boarding Air Force One at 08:24 p.m. local time on July 8th. But actually, according to The Post, and you can see here, Trump and several of his aides were secretly shuttled, minutes later, onto this airport catering truck, which was elevated and positioned at a door out of the view of the cameras.
Now, The Post reports that the President was on that catering truck when it pulled away from Air Force One at 08:30 p.m., secretly bringing him to a smaller plane, an Air Force C-32A, making the Air Force One that everyone thought he was on, a decoy, that still had the reporters who thought the President had boarded that plane and who you see boarding right here on the right, and some White House staff aboard.
The Washington Post reports, and I quote, The maneuver meant that the President's actual location was concealed from the American public and many senior U.S. officials for hours.
Air Force One then landed in the U.K., hours later.
Now it's still not clear, as The Post notes tonight, how the President was transported from that other secret plane back onto Air Force One after it landed. You see here, the reporters captured the President getting off the plane that they thought he had just flown on with them to the U.K., and he's seen coming down the stairs just before 11:00 p.m.
After greeting American service members on the tarmac, Trump got on the new Air Force One jet, that's the one that was given to the President by the Qatari government, and then he flew back to Washington.
Now the plane that he's getting on here is not to be confused with the old Air Force One decoy or the military plane that he flew on secretly.
But it was when the President got back on this plane to fly home to the U.S., that he was asked by reporters why they had been told to lower their window shades on that first flight, which is extremely unusual and not typically something that happens for the press that sits on the right side of the plane, which is where that airport catering truck was, now that you look back at that other video.
But given what we know now, given the pictures that you can see now, it makes what the President told reporters, in that gaggle afterward, all the more noteworthy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: You're saying there wasn't a security concern?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, no. Why would there be?
REPORTER: Do you know why they had us close our window blinds? That was not usual.
TRUMP: Well, yes because, you're, you know, probably on a dangerous flight because of the sleazebags that we have to deal with.
REPORTER: They think that Iran was possibly thinking of--
TRUMP: Well I mean, if they asked you to close your windows, probably they feel that way. They didn't ask me to close mine, but if they did, I would have done it.
REPORTER: Were you aware of any credible threat by Iran against Air Force One?
TRUMP: Well, I have a threat all the time. I'm number one on their list before you. But if I go, you go, right?
REPORTER: But was there a specific threat today?
TRUMP: So perhaps, perhaps someday you want to change professions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: If I go, you go. Though the President wasn't actually on the same plane as the reporters who were asking him that question.
And when they asked him about why they had to lower their own shades, the President said, Well, he wasn't told to lower his. Well, he was on a secret plane. He was not on the same plane that those reporters and some White House staffers were flying on.
Joining me tonight is one of the reporters who broke this story, Washington Post national security reporter, Dan Lamothe.
And Dan, I mean, this is a remarkable scoop and very thorough reporting here. Can you just kind of walk us through what you've learned here?
[21:05:00]
DAN LAMOTHE, NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes, I mean, I think that the most significant piece here is that for weeks now, the American public (ph) talking about the two Air Force One jets, the newer one from Qatar, and the older one from the last couple decades of operations. And in reality, the President was on neither plane. This came to The Post in part because individuals thought that there was a hole in public understanding here that needed to be clarified.
COLLINS: I mean, it also -- just in terms of how they came up with this. I mean, you know, a big question is going to be how unprecedented this is. The idea that they would take the President, not only put him on an alternate aircraft, but use a catering truck at the airport to do so.
LAMOTHE: Yes, I mean you can see some creativity and ingenuity in how they were able to pull this off.
And I don't think there's any dispute here. I mean, Iran is a serious threat to the United States. Iran is a threat to senior U.S. officials that predates this administration. There is cause for concern.
It's unclear at the moment what exactly triggered them to take these extreme measures. But either way, we've gone about a month now since it occurred, and until today, there was no public understanding of it.
COLLINS: Well, and you report that the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, also boarded that C-32A plane separately using external stairs, which means people could see him boarding it, and you write that this was part of an attempt to make the flight appear typical. That's a plane that typically other VIPs, Cabinet members, would fly on.
Do we know who else, if anyone, was on that secret plane with the President?
LAMOTHE: I can't speak at the moment to the -- with any specificity to, to who else was aboard that plane. But yes, Secretary Hegseth, I'm told, went up the external stairs, deliberately so, as a part of a larger plan to make it look like he was the senior official on that plane.
The C-32s that they used that day are commonly used. The Vice President uses them. The President uses them on occasion domestically. I have flown on C-32s in the past with general officers. It's not uncommon to see VIPs on that plane. But obviously, when you have even the usage of an Air Force One callsign on a plane that the President is not aboard in that moment, that's remarkable.
COLLINS: Well, and that's actually a really good point. Because typically, the understanding is that any plane, any aircraft the President is on is Air Force One, or any helicopter that he's on, that's technically Marine One.
But you said that the one that he was actually flying on had a non- descript callsign, while the other plane that everyone thinks he's on is still considered and still the callsign of Air Force One.
LAMOTHE: Yes, that's right. And as we kind of backtracked some of the publicly-available flight tracker data on this.
You have the newer jet from Qatar that landed with a relatively non- descript callsign a couple hours in advance in Britain.
The C-32 simply did not show up in flight tracker data at all, at least in the publicly-available information we had.
And the Air Force One jet landed with the Air Force One callsign, despite the President not being aboard. That -- there was a serious shell game of sorts that occurred there, you know, in an effort to keep the President safe.
COLLINS: And did -- were there White House staffers who were on the decoy Air Force One that also thought that the President was still on that plane?
LAMOTHE: My understanding is there was some White House staff that did not know. This was kept close hold in a small group. And obviously, the White House press corps, which reported not only in that day but in the subsequent weeks as well, that the President had traveled on the quote-unquote, Old Air Force One, that's simply not the case, we're told.
COLLINS: My colleague Barbara Starr, who is a veteran Pentagon correspondent. Obviously, you know her well. She made a good point about the threat level and what this speaks to of how concerned that U.S. officials were about this.
And she says, This suggests that the U.S. believed the threat to the President was not just imminent perhaps but there were concerns about growing Iranian precision in targeting and advanced accuracy at range and altitude. She says, IF the intel was that credible then was everything in place to carry out an attack? And if so, was has happened since to disrupt that capability?
I mean, she's asking the question about just how serious this threat to the President really was.
[21:10:00]
LAMOTHE: Yes, I don't have great clarity on what the specifics are that triggered them to take these measures.
But I would note that as technology advances, as we have seen Iran and a number of other countries take on aerial drones and a variety of other kind of munitions. The United States, as a nation, is just facing simply more kinds of threats, more exquisite threats, that it did not have to worry about a handful of years ago.
COLLINS: Were you shocked, as you were reporting on this, to just -- to just be able to learn about this and confirm that, that this is actually what they did with the President.
LAMOTHE: Candidly, this was a surreal story to cover. The initial discussions, the initial tip, and then looking into it, you're -- I kept finding myself saying, you know, like, What am I missing? Is this true?
Not an easy story to confirm. I mean, it obviously took some time, since that event, to put this all together, and put this together in a way that was convincing and confirmable and able to report it with your chest.
COLLINS: Yes, and there is no denial in here from the White House.
Dan, excellent reporting by you, John Hudson, all of your colleagues at The Washington Post. Thank you for joining us on the breaking news tonight.
LAMOTHE: Thank you for having me.
COLLINS: Joining me now is the Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, who sits on the Homeland Security and Armed Services Committees.
And Senator, I mean, thank you for being here tonight. Candidly, we were bringing you on to talk about Iran tonight, but we didn't anticipate this story coming out tonight. Do you believe that this is unprecedented?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): It is unprecedented and it is surreal, as Dan has just said. But it's also downright scary. This war has made the world less safe. It's made the President less safe. It's made our troops on bases in the region and around the world, less safe. It's made the Persian Gulf allies and partners less safe. And we need to end the war. And we need to know more, probably, about this threat. As Barbara Starr has said. It may involve the kinds of weapons platforms that we need to know the Iranians have.
But we certainly need to know more about the costs of this war. And so far, the administration has been anything but transparent. It has failed to disclose the details of the costs.
COLLINS: Do you want a congressional briefing on this? Given, I mean, clearly they were taking this threat very seriously.
BLUMENTHAL: There has to be a congressional briefing because it involves not just the safety of the President. I want to know what precautions were taken to make sure that all of the passengers on that Air Force One, which was judged too dangerous for the President to fly on, what precautions were taken to keep the staff and reporters on that plane safe.
COLLINS: Well, I mean, that's what's also remarkable here is the issue with the new Qatari jumbo jet was that it wasn't as equipped as the old Air Force One, security-wise. That's what the reporting was after. The President was very angry about that reporting. But also, they didn't seem to think that the old Air Force One was capable either. Maybe it was the plane itself that was the threat here.
BLUMENTHAL: What's really at stake here is the safety of the President when he travels. And clearly, the defensive mechanisms on the old Air Force One as well as the new one are incapable of matching those imminent threats all the time. That's why we need to know more about the specifics of this threat.
COLLINS: Yes, and that old plane obviously was basically being used as a decoy, the one that still had the press corps and other White House staffers on board, and members of the U.S. military that are -- that are on board.
BLUMENTHAL: And that's why I'd like to know what precautions were taken to make sure that they were safe, flying in an airplane that could have been a target of the Iranians with missiles or other devices that were capable of evading the defensive mechanisms on the old Air Force One.
COLLINS: And when this was happening, back in July, it was when there were renewed U.S. strikes on Iran. In that moment, as the President was in Turkey, meeting with other world leaders, that -- I mean, you heard the President there as he was speaking with reporters, calling the Iranians, sleazebags, talking about -- I mean, they've targeted him for quite some time now, long before he returned to office.
I mean, when you hear that, and you see what's going on with the war, what's your view?
BLUMENTHAL: This war has accomplished none of the President's objectives. It has not resulted in a different regime. In fact, if anything, the Revolutionary Guard is hard-aligned now than it was. They continue to have enriched uranium. Their missile production continues. And the President has no plan, no endgame, no strategy, for bringing this war to a conclusion.
[21:15:00]
COLLINS: I mean, did you ever think that you would read reporting that the President was put in a Turkish airport catering truck to be transported to a second secret plane?
BLUMENTHAL: I've seen a lot of classified material on what kind of plans there may be to protect the President. I've seen classified material on the threats that Iranians have posed to the President. Certainly, there are credible threats. Without going into the details of classified material.
The Secret Service should be credited with an evasive maneuver or, as they call it, a deceptive operation, to keep the President safe. But remember that there continued to be reporters and staff and military on the legacy Air Force One, which then flew without the President, and I'd like to know what was done to keep them safe.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean it's also just so notable to hear Trump talking now about why they lowered their window shades, that he wasn't asked to do so. He wasn't on the plane.
This comes, as the Senate has just passed a sanctions bill on Russia, something that was championed by the late Senator Lindsey Graham and also by you. It's now going to the House. And the President has said -- signaled that he would sign it.
Once this goes into place, how much of a difference do you think it's going to make?
BLUMENTHAL: I think it will make an enormous difference, and that's not just my saying it. It's President Zelenskyy. He came to us the week before we passed it, just about 10 days -- two weeks ago, and said, We need this sanctions and tariffs bill.
He also said, We need more air defense. He needs the interceptors of the Patriot system and the THAAD platform to protect his cities and civilians that are being bombed every night, missiles and drones in unprecedented numbers, killing civilians. They have civilian targets. Putin's murderous slaughter has to be stopped.
But the sanctions bill will throttle the flow of revenue from the sales of Russian oil and gas. China and India buy about 90 percent of it, and they will be subject to sledgehammer sanctions. And hopefully, they will stop buying it, and that will further disable Putin's war machine and bring him to the table.
COLLINS: And Xi Jinping is visiting Washington, next month.
Senator Blumenthal, thank you for joining us tonight.
BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.
COLLINS: Appreciate your time on this breaking news.
We're going to continue talking about this stunning reporting from The Washington Post tonight. My top political sources, one of whom worked in the highest echelons of the White House, will weigh in on this reporting tonight.
Plus, there have been major new changes that could soon be in the way for childhood vaccines, after the President signed a new executive order in a remarkable moment in the Oval Office today. We're going to get a reality check from one of the nation's top vaccine scientists, just ahead.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're following this breaking news tonight, as The Washington Post reports on a stunning and secret operation to protect President Trump amid an Iranian assassination threat, last month, after the NATO Summit that happened in Turkey.
The Post is now reporting from sources that while the President boarded Air Force One in full view of the TV cameras that were traveling with him, as you can see here, he then secretly was shuttled onto a smaller military aircraft using an airport catering truck to load meals and supplies.
My top political sources are here tonight, including:
Former senior adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod.
And the former senior adviser to Senator Mitch McConnell, Scott Jennings.
And Axe, I mean, you have flown on Air Force One many times when you served under President Obama. When you read this story, how unprecedented do you believe this is?
DAVID AXELROD, FORMER SR. ADVISER TO PRESIDENT OBAMA, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, very.
Yes, I've flown -- I flew with the President to Afghanistan. I flew with the President to Iraq. Those were kept secret, those visits were kept closely-guarded secrets, until we were en route there, when everyone on the plane and the media was informed. There was an embargo until we landed because the whole point was not to alert those who might attack the President's plane, and we went at night, and we left at night, and all these precautions were taken.
It was kind of stunning to think that the -- that all those on the plane were sort of a decoy there and were not told that the President wasn't on board, and that the deception was continued even after he safely returned to Washington, and that's hard for me -- hard for me to understand. You know, the reason there's a press pool -- you know the reason, and so does Scott. The reason there's a press pool is you always want eyes on the President. There could be a health incident. There could be an unannounced stop, and there needs to be -- there need to be people there who can record that, so the American people know. And so, this habit of giving them the slip is concerning.
Though, the President needs to be protected, and we ought to respect the fact that the President needs to be respected -- protected. But this is very unusual the way they approached this and the secrecy around it.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, Scott, you look back at other historical moments. I mean, Trump himself has gone to the Middle East with reporters in tow when he left from Palm Beach, one Thanksgiving, or Christmas, I believe. But even, I mean, there's other moments, including, with 9/11, with -- when President Clinton was in office and he flew to Pakistan.
[21:25:00]
I mean, there were moments where there were these top-secret trips, but the White House then told reporters, or they found out about it, in the immediate aftermath. It wasn't kind of a moment where a month later, The Washington Post reports on it, which is how we learned about what really happened here.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SR. ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL, HOST, "THE SCOTT JENNINGS RADIO SHOW" ON SRN: Well, I agree with David that this is highly unusual.
And you know, Kaitlan. You cover the White House and the President. You know how the machinations of his travel normally work.
But I think it was unusual because it sounds to me like the threat was unusual. I mean, it sounds like this was a very, very serious threat to the President's safety. And when you consider that he's already survived numerous assassination attempts, or people at least thinking about assassinating him, and you consider the region that he was in, I'm glad they engaged in all this cloak and dagger and all this deception to keep him safe.
I think every time he walks outside of the White House, whether he's traveling domestically or internationally, somewhere in his mind he must believe, you know, I don't know if I'm coming back here tonight. Because of what he has lived through.
I fear for him and what might happen to him every single day, and this story raised up the hairs on the back of my neck when you consider how they had to move him around. But I'm glad they did it, and I'm glad they got him back to the United States safely.
I'm glad he was at the meeting over there, by the way. It was important for the American president to be there. But you can only imagine, and David knows this, the level of threat and the level of alarm that would have been required to set up this kind of deception must have been extremely heavy.
COLLINS: But in terms of -- yes, I think that's fair in terms of how alarmed they were by this. But I mean, remember, I mean, the President initially told people, the reason he wasn't flying on the new Air Force One was because troops in the U.K. wanted to tour it, even though that was in the middle of the night.
I mean, I mentioned the Bill Clinton moment. That was when he flew to Pakistan. I believe we have video of that back in 2000, if we can show that here, where he was flying, and then there's the moment where he gets off this unmarked white jet, and the reporters are basically then told what was going on and what he had flown on.
JENNINGS: Yes, look, my view is this: that the paramount issue here is the safety of the President. You want the president to be able to go to important international destinations and represent our country, but they have to do it safely. They have to get there and come home safely.
And look, I'm a full supporter of what you do. And David is right, there's a reason that a press pool exists. But I just -- in my mind, I have to believe the threat level here was at a level of danger that required some extraordinary maneuvers. This president, as you know, is not shy about being in front of the press. He often takes questions on the plane. You know, he's pretty visible to you guys. But in this particular case, it sounds like this was a warranted item.
And honestly, for the rest of his term, I think he's going to continue to face this. Whether it's the Iranians, who I'm sure would like to think of ways to kill him every day. Whether it's domestic threats that he has already faced and could continue to face. I think this is just part of the reality of being Donald Trump, and that's very unfortunate. But I'm glad for the security personnel who know how to deal with it.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, he did speak to reporters on the way back, once he got on the Qatari plane. But when they asked him about, Was this because of a specific threat. He just talked about the Iranians generally, and then said, Well, I wasn't asked to lower my window shade, like the reporters were on that plane.
I mean, David, when you listen to this and you look at this. This made me think of Garrett Graff's book, "The Only Plane in the Sky," about a detailed timeline of what happened on 9/11.
And Ann Compton was one of the reporters on Air Force One, and I believe she's quoted in it, where a White House press aide is telling them something's off the record, and she says, This can't be off the record because this is of the utmost importance in terms of what is happening here during this historic event of 9/11. Even as that day was still unfolding and people were still learning about what exactly had happened.
I mean, to your point about why the press is always with the President when he travels. AXELROD: Yes, I think things -- I think things can be embargoed. I think reporters understood -- look, their own safety was at stake as well. Reporters understood that there were reasons why there are elements of that trip that needed to be kept under wraps until after the President was safely in and out of those places.
But the thing here that's a little disturbing is that if the President need -- if they needed to take such extraordinary steps to protect the President because the threat level was so high, the American people deserved to know that the threat level was that high in this particular case, that he had to take such an extraordinary measure.
[21:30:00]
And then the other piece of it is that in fact everyone on that plane was a decoy. If they felt that it was unsafe to be on the plane, then it was unsafe for everybody else to be on the plane as well. So, they at least deserve to know, if not then, then after, why this was happening.
COLLINS: Yes because obviously, if the plane was the target because, the President was on board, and the idea was still that the President was on board, which is what everyone thought, it would still have been a target.
David Axelrod. Scott Jennings. Thank you both for joining us on this breaking news tonight.
Up next. I mentioned this: President Trump was in the Oval Office today, signing an executive order to reduce, he says, the number of recommended vaccine for kids based on his feelings, not quoting science, but citing his own feelings.
My next sources are nationally-recognized -- a nationally-recognized doctor who has decades of experience in this area. And our fact- checker Daniel Dale will join me right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:35:00]
COLLINS: Tonight, President Trump is making yet another attempt to change the way that kids in the U.S. have been vaccinated against viruses and diseases for decades, based, he says, on his own, quote, Common sense and feelings.
The President signed an executive order today, in the Oval Office, demanding that states recommend fewer immunizations over a longer period of time. He was flanked by the Health Secretary and longtime vaccine skeptic himself, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., as the President repeatedly cited a claim he's been making for at least 20 years, a claim that is not backed by science, which is that childhood vaccines have led to a rise in autism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: Very simply, large amounts of vaccine, large amounts of, like vats, of vaccine, are currently pumped into your child's body, and we're doing 20 percent of that at each visit, and we'll let time elapse between visits so the body can handle this massive amount of fluid being pumped in. I think it's going to make a big difference. You know, there are some groups that have virtually no problem with autism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, extensive research has found that there is no link between childhood vaccines and autism, and vaccine doses are a fraction of a teaspoon, not in large vats, as the President asserted today.
This new executive order that he signs, which comes on the heels of other ones that he signed, including just back in May on vaccines, pushes to cut the number of recommended childhood vaccines from 17 down to 11. It also calls to separate out the MMR vaccine, the measles, mumps, and rubella, into three individual shots, which is a dramatic change that actually goes against broad scientific consensus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We want it in three separate vaccinations, given at separate times. Together, there could be a possibility they are quite lethal. And separately, it looks like they are not at all lethal, but just very effective.
And I saw this early on, and I've seen proof of it, where they have a vaccination that looks like the size of a bottle of soda poured into a little child's body, and bad things happen.
REPORTER: Mr. President, I think I heard you say that the MMR vaccine--
TRUMP: Yes.
REPORTER: --for measles, mumps, and rubella is quite lethal. Is there any evidence of that? Because--
TRUMP: No. What I've heard is that there are some people that say it is that way, and I say, Well, let's say there's a 5 percent chance of it. Let's split it up. Let's split it up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Pressed there by a reporter, the President acknowledged that there's not evidence that the MMR vaccine is lethal.
And states, not the federal government, actually set vaccination requirements for kids who are going to schools or daycare.
But this is the President pushing unproven health guidance to millions of parents, based on his own intuition, quote, Common sense, and personal feelings, not scientific research. But this is also not the first time that we've heard the President say as much.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I always had very strong feelings about autism and how it happened and where it came from.
I'm making these statements from me. I'm not making them from these doctors because when they -- they talk about, you know, different results, different studies. I talk about a lot of common sense.
We have to address it, and so I'm addressing it the best I can as a non-doctor. But I'm a man of common sense.
I'm not a doctor. I'm not a doctor. But I have common sense.
I say, maybe you can, maybe you can't. I'm not a doctor. But I'm like a person that has a good you know what.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me tonight:
Dr. Paul Offit, a member of the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee and the Director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
And also, my colleague, Daniel Dale.
And Daniel Dale, I'll start with you. Because you hear what the President says there. What do the facts show?
DANIEL DALE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: The facts show the President said a whole lot of things that weren't true in a very short period of time. I think the biggest one is, again, promoting this suggestion that there might be some link between vaccines and autism.
This idea emerged, was popularized by a discredited, fraudulent study from the 1990s. It has since been thoroughly debunked by multiple studies, in multiple countries, involving millions of people, and there is no new data in support of it. The American Academy of Pediatrics emphasized today: there's nothing new here. There's no new science. This idea remains thoroughly debunked. And yet, the President is floating it again.
[21:40:00]
Number two, I think the second most important false claim the President was promoting was this idea that the MMR vaccine can be quite lethal. This vaccine has been approved in the U.S., used in the U.S. since the early 1970s. It is proven very safe, very effective. There can be side effects; they tend to be mild and temporary, and there are no known deaths of any healthy child from taking it. So, baseless. And then additional baseless claims, again saying that fluid the size, he said, of a bottle of soda pumped into children. The typical vaccine dose, as you said, is a fraction of a teaspoon. The MMR dosage, for example, is 0.5 milliliters. A bottle of soda is like 600 milliliters. So, not even a shred of truth to that claim, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: What about when the President says that -- and RFK Jr. also was standing there saying that kids have to get up to 72 jabs. The Health Secretary said, that can be 94 shots by age 18. What is the truth?
DALE: So, I don't know what their math is here, but it appears that they are counting each individual dose of any vaccine that children could possibly get by age 18 and counting them separately, even though many of them are administered in combo shots or even orally, so not in the shots at all. And they're also counting annual COVID and flu shots that are not required by any state for kids to attend school. So, that would be 36 of the 72. So, a fuzzy math, I would say, generously, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Daniel Dale, thank you for joining us. It's great to have you here.
Dr. Offit, for you as well. There's a lot of parents who were listening to that today. When you heard what the President said, do you believe that there's any science behind these recommendations?
DR. PAUL OFFIT, VACCINE EDUCATION DIRECTOR, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA, MEMBER, FDA VACCINE ADVISORY COMMITTEE: No.
This question was asked, back in 1998, when this British researcher brought this question up, and it was published in a paper that was later retracted because the paper was so horribly flawed. But it's reasonable to ask the question, right? My child got a vaccine; they're not fine. Could the vaccine have done it?
There have been now 24 separate studies looking at hundreds of thousands of people or children who either did or didn't get the Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccine. The incidence of autism was the same in people who got it or didn't get it. Asked and answered.
The problem is, you have a science denialist like President Trump, or a science denialist like Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who simply don't want to believe. They have this fixed, immutable belief that the Measles- Mumps-Rubella Vaccine causes harm when it doesn't.
And this is happening when we've had the biggest measles epidemic in more than 30 years, where we've had three people die of measles last year, including two healthy little girls in West Texas. You can't be more irresponsible than to cast doubt on a measles-containing vaccine right now.
COLLINS: Well, and the President is saying that they need to separate out the MMR shot into those three separate shots for children to get. Are you worried about what that will mean if that is something -- if that is guidance that states do follow? OFFIT: I don't think states will follow this. I think that his executive order does not carry the rule of law. The most he can do, at this point, is to recommend agencies look at this. I don't think that this vaccine is going to be available as three separate shots because there's no reason to do that. I mean, all you're doing is you're taking a two-dose vaccine, making it a six-shot vaccine with no advantage. So, why do that?
COLLINS: But also, I mean, I don't understand how they are arguing that that should happen, but also are arguing that children are getting too many shots and too many different jabs. I mean, they're basically saying, This needs to be more jabs and more shots for children, but also we need to reduce the number of jabs that they're getting overall.
OFFIT: You find that hypocritical. I agree.
The other thing I would say is that Donald Trump was born in 1946. Me and RFK Jr. were both children of the early 1950s. All of us got two vaccines. We got the so-called Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis Vaccine. The pertussis vaccine was made by taking a whole bacterial and killing it. It's the only time we used a whole dead bacterial vaccine in this country. And the smallpox vaccine, the largest of the mammalian viruses.
You had a greater immunological challenge, much greater, to those two vaccines that we got in the late '40s and early '50s than the roughly 17 or 18 vaccines that children get today. A far greater immunological challenge. So, it's not the number of shots; it's what's in the shots that matter.
COLLINS: When you also hear the President say that this executive order puts the U.S. on the same page as other advanced and developed nations. Is that true?
OFFIT: Well, why are we trying to mimic them?
I mean, you take a country like Denmark, which is roughly the size of Maryland. They have decided not to give the rotavirus vaccine to their children.
Now, rotavirus in this country, before we had a vaccine in 2006, would cause 55,000 to 70,000 hospitalizations a year, and 20 to 60 deaths a year. We virtually eliminated those hospitalizations from severe dehydration.
[21:45:00]
They continue to have essentially, if you count for the fact that it's a smaller country, essentially that same equivalent number of hospitalizations. They should be mimicking us, not the other way around.
COLLINS: Dr. Paul Offit, I'm so grateful to have you on the show tonight. Thank you for joining us.
OFFIT: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next tonight. We're also following what's going to be happening in 24 hours from now. It's a big primary in Wisconsin, and the next big test for Democratic Socialists. My colleague Jeff Zeleny is live on the ground in Madison with what voters are saying tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: With less than 24 hours to go until the polls close in a whirlwind Democratic Wisconsin governor's primary, the Democratic Socialist on the ticket, Francesca Hong, spent the day delivering her final pitch to further solidify what they hope to be a nationwide progressive wave. Now it's happening, they hope, in a state that has become the latest front in a battle for the soul of the Democratic Party.
[21:50:00]
There are some Democrats, though, who are concerned about whether or not a Democratic Socialist can win that race, come November, especially one who has a history of deleted posts and changed positions like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Do you still believe that Thanksgiving should be canceled?
FRANCESCA HONG, (D) WISCONSIN GOV. CANDIDATE: I'm a chef, and one of the first meals that I made, that was for the community, when I was 16, was a Thanksgiving meal.
But Thanksgiving is also a time that's incredibly painful for many people in our communities.
My favorite holiday is Thanksgiving because I love to--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you have it.
HONG: Yes. I don't want to cancel it. I actually love it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: CNN's Jeff Zeleny is in Madison with a closer look at these critical races.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you say somebody's a Democratic Socialist, what the hell does that mean?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the eve of the primary election in a wild Wisconsin governor's race, Democrats are having a contentious debate.
COLLEEN LEAHY, WISCONSIN DEMOCRATIC VOTER: What they're calling socialist policies aren't necessarily socialist; it's working for people.
HONG: In our movement, we're taking on corporate corruption now.
ZELENY (voice-over): Over the direction of their party and more.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think there's anything wrong with being a Democratic Socialist, but she's come out so strong that I think she's going to scare people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, good to see you.
ZELENY (voice-over): A summertime surge for progressives will be tested anew, as Francesca Hong, a Democratic Socialist state lawmaker--
HONG: I want you to know that I'm going to keep showing up for you. Let's win this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
ZELENY (voice-over): --faces David Crowley, the Milwaukee County executive backed by outgoing Governor Tony Evers.
DAVID CROWLEY, (D) WISCONSIN GOV. CANDIDATE: We need a governor who doesn't just talk about problems. We need someone who's going to solve them, and that's what I've done my entire career.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
ZELENY (voice-over): Hong is working to capitalize on deep voter discontent, calling for a one-year moratorium on data centers.
HONG: Taxing the ultra-rich.
ZELENY (voice-over): And new taxes on some of the wealthiest Wisconsinites.
ZELENY (on camera): What have you tapped into during this race?
HONG: I think it's a frustration and an exhaustion that Wisconsinites feel left behind.
ZELENY (voice-over): The campaign has divided Wisconsin Democrats with one chaotic turn after another. Three candidates dropped out, including Crowley, who later jumped back into the race.
Hong emerged as a frontrunner, but along the way walked back her previous views of defunding the police, abolishing the U.S. Senate, and even canceling Thanksgiving.
HONG: Had some bad takes and some hot takes on Twitter. But like all everyday Wisconsinites, I had to express my frustrations that the system wasn't working for us.
TIM EICHINGER, WISCONSIN DEMOCRATIC VOTER: There are times to be more establishment, but I don't think this is a time.
ZELENY (voice-over): Tim Eichinger, a lifelong Democrat, has watched the primary play out from his Milwaukee brewery.
ZELENY (on camera): Is there an appetite for change here? Is that what's driving some of this as well?
EICHINGER: Certainly. And it's not just change overall; it's change with how the Democrats are doing things. The Democrats seem to be soft and aren't willing to fight as much. And I think that's why you're seeing maybe somebody who maybe has some bigger ideas, some bold ideas, that might seem a little bit crazy, but it's like, Hey, let's give it a shot.
ZELENY (voice-over): Progressive politics have a long history in Wisconsin. But Evers warned Democrats they could lose the seat in November to Republican Congressman Tom Tiffany.
GOV. TONY EVERS (D-WI): Wisconsinites, we have worked too damn hard and we have waited too damn long to have it all squandered now.
ZELENY (voice-over): Crowley argues that he too represents change.
ZELENY (on camera): So, you're not the establishment, in your view?
CROWLEY: I may be established, but I'm not the establishment.
Just being able to put out different types of rhetoric doesn't mean you're a progressive. What makes you a progressive is actually making progress for those that you represent and looking to represent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY: Now, there is a share of undecided voters here that Crowley and Governor Evers have been trying to reach out to, to make their case about electability.
But there is no doubt that Francesca Hong has really tapped into this hunger for change, and not just any change, big change. And when she was campaigning here, earlier today, we caught up with her, and she said, Look, there are those who may say she's extreme. She said, What's extreme is minimum wage that's still $7.25 here. So, she talked about the policies that people want.
Kaitlan, there's one other metric here. Republicans have also had their eye on this seat. The Republican Governors Association has spent about $3.6 million in ads, effectively propping her up. That has given Democrats the suggestion that Republicans would like her to win.
There's no doubt, all eyes will be on Wisconsin tomorrow, for one of the final acts of this summer surge of progressives.
COLLINS: Oh, yes.
ZELENY: Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Jeff Zeleny, live on the ground in Madison. Thank you for joining us tonight.
[21:55:00]
And I should note, of course, as Jeff said there, tomorrow is Election Night here. We're going to be following the primaries, not just in Wisconsin but in every state tomorrow night. Join us for our special live coverage and analysis. That starts tomorrow, at 07:00 p.m. here on CNN and the CNN app.
Up next. It is time for Source Code. We give you a number at the center of a story in the news. Can you guess what the story is? Tonight's Source Code is 88. And we will be right back with the answer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is 88. Because today, Todd Blanche was officially sworn in as the nation's 88th attorney general.
[22:00:00]
The Oval Office ceremony was notably led by his former colleague, that's the judge now, Emil Bove, who once served alongside Blanche on the President's personal defense team before he re-entered office last year.
Blanche also received a line of applause, as he entered the Justice Department today, capping off a long and bruising confirmation battle for this job, which at one point was in serious peril over the President's $1.8 billion Anti-Weaponization Fund. Blanche has said under oath and in writing that the fund is dead.
But this is what the President said, when he was asked about it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: The Anti-Weaponization Fund, do you think it's still alive at this point? And are there any options that you're looking at to perhaps revive it?
TRUMP: Well, that will be up to Todd Blanche, he's our new -- and who will be, I think, a great attorney general.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Thanks so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT" starts now.
