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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Blanche Defends Trump's Efforts To Limit Mail-In Voting; Rep. Beatty: Trump "Threw A Tantrum" On Kennedy Center Call; Rep. Massie Pushes Surprise Hegseth Impeachment Vote. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 15, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TODD BLANCHE, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Am I investigating what? And when you say, This person is a friend of Putin. I don't even know if that's true or not.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tom Foreman. CNN. Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Well, that's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: From the Supreme Court to the Kennedy Center, President Trump seems to be realizing that even if his handpicked people are there, that doesn't mean he always gets what he wants.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Good evening, on what has been one of the busier days here in Washington of late. As at the White House tonight, a frustrated President Trump is inside there and has been lashing out on several different fronts.
First, responding to that major loss that we reported on here last night, delivered by the Supreme Court over his efforts to restrict mail-in voting. The President lashing out at the justices that he personally picked and writing this, quote, "These are not the people I interviewed to serve on the United States Supreme Court, they are merely a shell of their original selves." He added, "It is a Court that will go down as having rendered some of the most destructive, hurtful, and damaging decisions in our Country's history."
The President's Attorney General, Todd Blanche, picked up where he left off, indicating in that unusual news conference at the White House, that this fight over mail-in voting isn't over yet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLANCHE: There should be nothing surprising about what we're trying to do when it comes to mail-in voting, which is we want to make sure that there is safe voting, and that there is integrity, free and fair elections, and that there is one person placing one vote, and that that person is eligible to vote.
President Trump's efforts to make sure that we have free and fair elections are not going to stop just in November or after or thereafter. So, I expect you're going to see that work continue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now the facts show, of course, that voter fraud is incredibly rare.
But in perhaps what is a preview of what could happen next, the FBI director, Kash Patel, as he was testifying today, did not rule out the notion of deploying federal agents to polling places.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. PETER WELCH (D-VT): Do you pledge that you will not, in any way, interfere in the will of the American people when they go to the polls in November.
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: I pledge unequivocally that I will not participate in your charade of lies.
WELCH: Then why are you being such a panderer to President Trump, who's still claiming that he won the 2020 election and who has said the only way Democrats can win in 2026 is if they cheat. Do you believe that?
PATEL: What I believe in is the rule of law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: After lashing out at his own handpicked Supreme Court justices, the President then went after the federal judge who rejected his latest attempt to put his name on the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts here in Washington. He threatened to cancel a planned $257 million renovation if his name can't go on the building.
He wrote, The Board of The Kennedy Center today agreed, almost unanimously, to close the Building for Safety reasons, and so that it can begin the process of Reconstruction. The closing will take place immediately, however, the Renovation and Reconstruction, which is a very large and complex job, cannot begin until such time as the D.C. Circuit rules on the Board's approved name. If the ruling is a negative one, which it should not be, and is not overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court, the President says, the Reconstruction and the Renovation of The Kennedy Center will not take place.
Now tonight, I'll be joined by Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, who apparently Trump berated during that Kennedy Center board meeting, earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOYCE BEATTY (D-OH): We want to make sure that we keep the Kennedy Center healthy. And certainly, as you know, we have been dealing with the unlawful naming, and it is being held hostage. Every time there's an issue that comes up, it has been connected. We will consider to do this, but or unless it has Donald Trump's name on the building.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, the President was not done there. After the justices and the judge, and apparently that Democratic congresswoman, he also invoked his predecessor and claimed, without a single piece of evidence, this: Everybody knows the Crooked Joe Biden FBI didn't do what they should've with the Lunatic who shot me in Butler, PA. By the time I got into Office, on January 20th, most of the information was missing, altered, corrupted, or gone. New info was just found. Why wasn't it seen long ago? This was all a Democrat Plot, to get me out of the Election, that failed.
[21:05:00]
My colleague, Kristen Holmes, asked the Attorney General, during that briefing earlier, what exactly the President was referring to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLANCHE: What President Trump said today about the new information, and this new information is information that we found, that the FBI found, that produced to the Senate, in response to inquiries that they had. It is new information about the shooter and about his background, about his history and that stuff that we didn't know before. So, that's the new information.
As far as the President's frustration with the FBI. I was there with him. I lived it. I mean, you have a situation where -- where it's not really clear what the leadership of the FBI were doing, in the weeks and months ahead of the attempted assassination, to protect President Trump. That's the same organization that was simultaneously trying to put him in prison till he dies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The FBI director during that time, of course, was Chris Wray, who was hired and appointed by Donald Trump.
The President tonight is, though, potentially getting some support, some prominent support, on the promise that he's hoping can turn the tide in the midterm elections.
Republican Senator Bernie Moreno of Ohio says he's drafting a bill to move forward with those $5,000 checks that the President promised at the midterm convention last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If the Republicans win the House of Representatives and the United States Senate, both of them. I will issue a dividend to every adult citizen in the United States of America for $5,000. (CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And my source to start us off tonight is Republican Senator Bernie Moreno of Ohio.
And thank you, Senator, for being here.
There's a lot to talk about. But on the checks, you're drafting the bill to actually turn this into a reality. Where does the money for those $5,000 checks come from?
SEN. BERNIE MORENO (R-OH): Well, I think the first and most important question is why is it contingent on the Republicans winning the House and the Senate. And the answer is because that's the only way we can pass a bill without Democrats support because we could do something called reconciliation. That's how we did the Working Families Tax Cuts. So, we can't do that if we lose either the House or the Senate.
In terms of where the money comes from, lots of opportunities to look at something like the Trump Platinum Card, a market access fee for the U.S. that would raise -- both of those combined would raise trillions of dollars over the 10-year budget window, and you restrict that $5,000 Trump dividend to working Americans that are actually citizens, and you actually can pay off a significant part of the debt by doing that.
COLLINS: But the President didn't put those constraints on it, saying you have to have a job, you have to do this.
MORENO: No, no, I'm not saying that--
COLLINS: He said every adult citizen.
MORENO: Yes, I'm not saying you have to have a job. What I'm saying is you restrict it to people who aren't wealthy, so maybe you won't get one.
COLLINS: But so the money is coming from--
MORENO: But it would go to -- it would go to -- it would go to most Americans, obviously--
COLLINS: But the money is coming from tariffs, basically?
MORENO: A market access fee. It basically says, If you want access to the United States of America, you're going to pay a fee to enter our market. And what's called the Trump Platinum Card, which is foreign nationals that want to come to the U.S. that would pay a million dollars each to be able to get preferential expedited visas to come to the U.S., so they can stay here permanently.
That's not -- none of that comes from taxpayers. So, that raises, over the 10-year budget window, probably somewhere around $4 trillion, and the Trump dividend costs about one. So you could pay off about $3 trillion of debt.
COLLINS: But the main premise is basically a tariff, a market access -- by market access fee--
MORENO: Yes.
COLLINS: --you mean someone paying to get into the U.S. market.
MORENO: Correct.
COLLINS: So you have to first get a number of countries and companies that would agree to do that.
MORENO: No, no, no. They would -- they would do it because if they want to sell their product in the United States of America, they would pay that fee.
COLLINS: But wouldn't that just apply a blanket charge to any country?
MORENO: Any--
COLLINS: I mean, the President has been using tariffs as his leverage.
MORENO: Well, the products -- there are, as you know, there are tariffs currently in legislation; those tariffs are set very low or very high depending on the product. You would just have a blanket tariff across the board, but you can also do it other ways. We've made -- the President has made $60 billion just on the Intel deal so far. There's massive amounts of foreign investment coming to the U.S. where we are sharing, and the benefits of that, meaning the taxpayer.
The bottom line is, here's what your viewers should know. If Republicans keep the House and the Senate, they'll get a check for $5,000. You can bank on that.
COLLINS: But the midterms are in 60 days. I mean, shouldn't you decide soon -- 50 days, I think, actually. Shouldn't you decide soon where exactly the money is coming from if that legislation is going to be--
MORENO: No, that's not how legislation works. We have to go through a process and go through the details, but the end will be the end. If we keep the House and the Senate, every American citizen will get $5,000.
COLLINS: I guess the reason I ask is because it seems unrealistic to a lot of people because the President has promised checks many times. He told Americans they were going to get a check after the DOGE savings. He told Americans they were going to get another tariff savings check. No Americans are getting checks in the mail based on either of those.
MORENO: Well, the Supreme Court reversed the tariffs, and they ended up being the largest corporate giveaway in American history.
You have a lot of Democrats on this show. Have you ever asked--
COLLINS: But the President--
MORENO: Have you ever asked a single Democrat how you're going to pay for Medicaid for All, or a single Democrat--
COLLINS: Yes.
MORENO: --how you're going to pay for student loan for--
COLLINS: Many times.
[21:10:00]
MORENO: Well, they -- they don't have--
COLLINS: But -- but--
MORENO: What's the answer to that question?
COLLINS: But you're a Republican and you're proposing the $5,000 checks.
MORENO: Yes.
COLLINS: So, I'm asking you about that.
MORENO: No, but what I'm saying is, I think what happens is the reason there's consternation about this is because the Democrats probably are really upset that this money is going to go to American citizens.
COLLINS: But I guess that the President has promised checks--
MORENO: They spent hundreds of billions of dollars on illegals. There was no conversation about that.
COLLINS: -twice before.
MORENO: The tariffs were reversed by--
COLLINS: But he's promised checks twice before.
MORENO: The tariffs were reversed by the Supreme Court and that money--
COLLINS: OK. So, where are the DOGE checks?
MORENO: --that money did not go back to the American people. That money went back to importers, the Chinese government, and large corporations. With the except of Walmart, by the way. Walmart did a great job and actually gave that money back to the people. Most big companies did that.
COLLINS: OK. But so where are the DOGE checks?
MORENO: The DOGE effort continues. We will continue to make certain that we make government more efficient. But as you know, we do have to work through a legislative process in which the Democrats wanted nothing to do with fighting waste, fraud, and abuse in government. So we thought--
COLLINS: Well, Trump says he can't do this without Congress, though.
MORENO: Well, look--
COLLINS: So can he?
MORENO: Maybe he can, maybe he can't. I'm going to make certain that we're there in Congress to support it because I fully back the idea that the American people need relief. And if we keep the House and the Senate, my top priority -- I'm one of a 100 senators. There's 435 congressmen. My top priority: make certain that we keep that promise and we deliver $5,000 to every American citizen.
COLLINS: I think people just don't think it's realistic--
MORENO: And again, I know that Democrats--
COLLINS: --because they keep getting the promise of checks, and they don't get the checks.
MORENO: Well unlike--
COLLINS: So, why are they supposed to now believe, you know?
MORENO: Unlike the promises that--
COLLINS: It feels like Lucy and the Football to a degree.
MORENO: Unlike -- unlike the promises that Democrats make, which is that they're going to lower the health care costs, they're going to give Medicaid for free, free student tuition, we're going to forgive your debt. This will happen. President Trump gave $1,776 to every member--
COLLINS: Well, it only happens if Republicans win, to your point, right?
MORENO: Because that's the only way we can do it without Democrats support.
COLLINS: Well can I ask you what -- about what Susan Collins said?
MORENO: But well -- one quick thing. $1,776 went to every member of the military. That was a fact. It happened. We delivered the largest tax cut in American history--
COLLINS: Yes, but it--
MORENO: --with zero Democrat support. We expanded the child tax credit to $2,200. We gave a daycare credit of $1,800. We got rid of taxes on overtime tips and Social Security.
COLLINS: But you're saying--
MORENO: All that happened, and this will this will also happen. COLLINS: This will only happen if Republicans--
MORENO: It's the only--
COLLINS: --keep the House and the Senate.
MORENO: Or all of a sudden, Democrats decide to love this country and love the people in this country.
COLLINS: Susan Collins says tax and spending decisions should be made based on the needs of American people and the state of the economy, not tied to election results.
MORENO: Well it's tied--
COLLINS: If Democrats are promising 5K--
MORENO: Wait. Hold on a second. It's tied -- it's tied--
COLLINS: --if they won, would you say that's a bribe?
MORENO: It's tied to election results because the only way for us to pass a bill, without any Democrat support, is to do a reconciliation bill. That requires us to control the House, the Senate, and the White House.
COLLINS: But that's not what Trump is saying.
MORENO: Well, sure it is because what he's saying is if we win the midterms, meaning we keep the House and the Senate, he's still President, we control all three levers of government. We can pass another reconciliation bill.
COLLINS: That's not what he said.
MORENO: That's what--
COLLINS: He said he doesn't need Congress to distribute the checks.
MORENO: Well, I -- look, I was in Dallas. What I heard him say is that if we keep the House and the Senate, we're going to give $5,000 to every American citizen. We're going to keep that promise. You can bank on it. If you're a listener watching, and we keep the House and the Senate, you're going to have $5,000 in your checking account.
COLLINS: I mean, some people might say, Well, that's an easy promise to make.
But I mean, you're talking about reconciliation, which is a process that would have to be led by the Republican Senate Majority Leader John Thune. He sounded very skeptical today. He talked about the debt. He talked about interest rates. Is he going to put your bill, your legislation, anywhere?
MORENO: Well, I think this would be the core of a reconciliation bill. And again, no tax on tips, Democrats fought it. No tax on overtime, Democrats fought it. No tax on Social Security, Democrats fought it. The child tax credit expanded. Nobody thought we could do that. We made the tax cuts permanent. We prevented the largest tax cut in American history, and we gave $1,776 to every single member of the U.S. military. All those promises were kept, and this one will be kept as well.
COLLINS: OK. I'm just saying the President's promises on checks has not been kept. But he mentioned--
MORENO: Well, he had a Supreme Court that reversed his tariffs, which was insane.
COLLINS: Well people said that they were--
MORENO: Like I said, the largest corporate giveaway in American history. The Chinese government got--
COLLINS: Plus -- the DOGE checks as well.
MORENO: Well again -- and again, the Democrats fought every single amount of DOGE efforts that we tried to implement.
COLLINS: The President said today that new information was found that it was a Democrat plot to try to kill him in that assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania. I looked through the highlights of what has come out. I don't see anything that points to that. Have you seen anything that points to that?
MORENO: What's crystal clear to everybody is that this amount of security to protect President Trump at that rally was definitely lacking, crystal clear. How do you have the only structures with line of sight to the President and nobody checked that roof? That's crazy.
We, as all Americans, Democrats, Independents, Republicans, should ask ourselves, how did we have such a catastrophic failure to protect who was obviously a target of assassination in that -- in that -- in Butler, PA.
[21:15:00]
And thank God President Trump didn't get killed. And others did, and we should mourn their lives and respect the fact that we should have a thorough investigation of what went wrong.
Common sense would say, Hey, has anybody checked the only structure that has a line of sight to this?
COLLINS: Sure. Agreed.
MORENO: That's nuts.
COLLINS: But does that say that it was a Democratic plot to kill him?
MORENO: Well, my understanding, and again, I haven't gone through the information, but my understanding is that the request was made to beef up security from the Secret Service, and that the Biden administration declined that. They did not offer the kind of protection that's customary.
COLLINS: But does that equal Democratic plot to kill the President, in your view?
MORENO: Well, in the sense that -- in the sense that the administration--
COLLINS: I mean, that's a serious allegation. Wouldn't you agree?
MORENO: In the sense that -- in the sense that the administration is a Democratic administration, and for whatever reason, we should find out, don't you think? But we should--
COLLINS: I think Chris Wray was a Republican.
MORENO: Well, that's -- that's--
COLLINS: That Trump hired.
MORENO: He -- we should all ask the question: Why was the security not provided that was obviously essential? And answer that question. I think that's an obvious question all of us should ask.
COLLINS: Can I ask you also the news yesterday? Donald Trump Jr. endorsed you, campaigned for you, I believe, out on the trail when you were running.
MORENO: He's a great guy.
COLLINS: ProPublica reported yesterday that a Russian oligarch helped pay for some of his wedding celebrations.
As a senator, is that something that you personally are comfortable with? And do you know who this Russian oligarch is?
MORENO: I don't know who the Russian oligarch is.
I know that Don Jr. is a great human being, an amazing American. Super-happy for him and his family that they had a great wedding. I think this is not the story that is worthy of your show. We should be thinking about the things that affect Americans.
Look, you compare Don Jr. to Hunter Biden, and you have one that's a complete drug addicted degenerate compared to a great human being and successful entrepreneur.
And I'm very happy for him. Glad that he had a great wedding, and I wish him the absolute best. He's a great friend.
COLLINS: Well, I'm glad you bring up Hunter Biden. I mean, if a Russian oligarch had bankrolled some of his celebrations, would you have questions about that?
MORENO: You mean like when he got diamonds dropped off in his hotel room when he visited China, when his dad took him there parading him through China to get gifts and bribes, when he was put on the board-- COLLINS: So you do think it's inappropriate?
MORENO: --if you're put on the board of Burisma? None -- those are all Hunter Biden stories. It's not--
COLLINS: Right, but if that's inappropriate for him, why would this not be inappropriate?
MORENO: Well, look, do you know the circumstance? I have no idea. It could be a situation where somebody said, Hey, I'm going to throw you a party, then the party becomes a wedding. I don't know. Like I said, I wish him the best.
I can tell you this: there's not a human being in Ohio that really cares about this story. What they care about is how we're making their lives better. We gave them the largest tax cut in American history. We put more money in their pockets. We're bringing in jobs by the boatload into Ohio. We're about to announce a $3 billion investment from a company that is only going to build in Ohio because of President Trump's policies. We have Canadian companies that want to leave Canada and come to Ohio.
We're booming in Ohio, thanks to President Trump's policies, which is why he won by 11 points, and why Jon Husted is going to defeat the political has-been named Sherrod Brown.
COLLINS: We shall see if he wins.
Senator Moreno, thank you for joining us tonight.
MORENO: Thank you.
COLLINS: Appreciate your time.
MORENO: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. I mentioned the Kennedy Center. It is now officially closed after that call with President Trump today. One person described it to CNN as, quote, effing crazy. The person who was on the other end of the line to the President is my next source. And Congresswoman Joyce Beatty will join me right after this.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The Kennedy Center has closed its doors tonight, just a few hours after President Trump called into the Performing Arts Center's board meeting to berate one of its members. After the board had voted to shut down the Kennedy Center after a federal judge stopped the latest plan and attempt to add the President's name back onto the building.
The President then followed up with his own threat, arguing basically that the Center will not be renovated unless the courts rule in his favor. He wrote this: If the ruling is a negative one... and is not overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court, the Reconstruction and the Renovation of The Kennedy Center will not take place.
Now, sources say the vote to shut down followed a tense board meeting, in which President Trump held what was described as a chaotic phone call with the Democratic Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, who serves as a congressionally-designated member on that board. One source described the moment as, quote, effing crazy, to CNN. While another said that Trump was heard screaming during it.
My source tonight is Congresswoman Beatty, whose lawsuit has prevented the President's name from being added to the Kennedy Center.
And thank you for being here. It's great to have a firsthand source.
Can you just describe what did happen on that call with the President to us?
BEATTY: Well, we were in our Kennedy Center board meeting today. It was virtual. It was first announced that Beatty v. Trump lawsuit, that the judge had rendered the decision that, again, for the second time, that it would be unlawful for Donald Trump to put his name on the Kennedy Center.
Shortly after that, we went into talking about the proposal to renovate the Kennedy Center. And at that time, there were a series of questions that I had proposed, and the President threw a tantrum. I think he was upset because he had lost, and it had been reported.
There was a lot of things that I thought were very unprofessional. This is the Chairman of the Board and the President of the United States. So, he picked the wrong person to try to attack my character and to berate me. I was not going to let him tell me that he thought I was incompetent.
[21:25:00]
So, I responded by telling him, I knew he was incompetent. He wanted to blame me if someone died, if something happened, if the ceiling fell in. And I reminded him, he has us at war, and people are dying. He has tariffs and taxes that are preventing people from buying food or being able to have affordable housing and other things. So, it was a tit for tat.
And this is the Chairman of the Board. I was disappointed, but I was not going to let him get away with bullying, bullying me because that's what he does. He tries to intimidate people, he tries to bully them because he didn't get his way because, he wanted this to be his vanity project.
COLLINS: So, Congresswoman, if I'm understanding you, so at one point you said that the President suggested if someone died at the Kennedy Center that it would be your fault?
BEATTY: Absolutely. He said he was going to hold me personally responsible, and it was my fault. And when you think about what he did, not only during the board meeting, but what he then put out after the board meeting, that many people are reporting. It's not true. That was not what the vote was.
He stated that we voted to close down the Kennedy Center today. While I did not support the vote, the others who voted did not vote for the language that he is putting up on Truth Social and saying to people. Nor did we hear anything about him holding $17 million he was going to put in there or hold it, again, unlawfully if he did not get his name on the Kennedy Center board.
The Kennedy Center is not closed down at this time. We are looking into it. He would be in contempt of court. The Department of Justice is looking into it. It is open at this time. There were rumors that he told everyone to evacuate the building, and it was being closed. Then it was reported that it was a false fire alarm, so people had to leave, and now they were -- then they were able to come back into the board. This is what we've been dealing with, with Donald Trump. This is--
COLLINS: Yes, and just to be clear. I think if people are hearing the thing about, if someone died at the Kennedy Center, why that's being brought up? The Commerce Secretary was showing video of part of the ceiling crashing onto the lobby floor. Kennedy Center officials have been saying, it does underscore the need for renovations.
I mean, during this phone call, you said the President was being unprofessional. Was he -- was he actually yelling during the call?
BEATTY: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. He was yelling, raising his voice--
COLLINS: And what was his point? Was he saying he was angry about the court ruling, or?
BEATTY: Oh, I think he was angry about the court ruling. I think he made it personal with me because it's Beatty v. Trump, and we had been victorious in court because what he's doing is unlawful, and the court stood by us.
Now, let me just say this because I know people are seeing the videos. I have never been against renovating or doing the repairs to make the Center healthy and to make it safe.
COLLINS: So, you're on board with renovating it. We've heard that the board has said the Center is facing fiscal collapse if the President doesn't step in with funds to make payroll for those maintenance contracts. Do you believe that the Kennedy Center is going to go bankrupt if something doesn't change?
BEATTY: Well, I think he's trying to hold the board hostage. It's not that what a prudent board chair would do. They would say, I'm making the donations to make it healthy to pay the employees. What he is saying: I will do this if my name is on the Kennedy Center. If it's not, I'm not doing anything, I'll let it close down.
We know that the performers stopped coming because his name was put on the Kennedy Center, and people moved away from wanting to be there strictly because of him. So, we are in a situation now. The judge asked the board to come back with programming, so we could address the question that you're asking.
COLLINS: Do you think if it doesn't -- if he does not find a way to have his name on the Kennedy Center, that it will remain closed while potentially while he's in office the rest of the term?
BEATTY: It's too hard to predict what someone who is so unpredictable will do. But what I do know is that we will not stop fighting for justice. We will go back to court as much as we need to because what he is proposing is unlawful, and he just shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. And if he thought trying to bully me was going to stop me from standing up for what's right, he picked the wrong person.
COLLINS: A source described the call as effing crazy. I mean, maybe you won't use that language, but is that essentially how you would describe what happened today?
BEATTY: I probably wouldn't use that language, but I understand what the person was saying. I think it would be unthinkable for someone to hear a president using the language that he used.
[21:30:00]
He threw a tantrum. It was like an immature child. I wouldn't even want to put this on a child. He was just being very, in my opinion, very immature, shouting, calling names, stating facts. He doesn't really know anything about me.
And I looked to the board and said, Are we really going to do this? This is very unprofessional.
COLLINS: Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, thank you for joining us to relay what that call was like tonight.
BEATTY: Thank you.
COLLINS: Thank you for your time.
BEATTY: No, thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next. We have another source tonight from the Hill. This time, it's Republican Congressman Thomas Massie. He shocked his own party today when he went to the House floor and said he wanted to impeach Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:35:00]
COLLINS: House leadership was blindsided today when a member of their own party, the Republican Party, launched a surprise impeachment push. Not for President Trump. But instead, for the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.
Congressman Thomas Massie's push to oust Hegseth is remarkable, not just because it caught those Republican leaders off guard, but also because it would be the first time that a member of Congress has tried to oust a Cabinet member of the same party.
There are eight articles of impeachment, in total, for high crimes and misdemeanors, and those articles argue that Secretary Hegseth repeatedly abused the powers of his office by leading the war with Iran without authorization from Congress. The lengthy 34-page resolution also goes beyond the war and includes this: extrajudicial killings, ignoring laws that minimize civilian casualties, and suppressing free speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Secretary of Defense Peter Hegseth, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to civilians, the lawful conduct of United States military operations, the integrity and credibility of the United States Armed Forces, and the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with his duties and the rule of law.
Peter Brian Hegseth thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Well, that was in the afternoon.
And shortly thereafter, in the Rose Garden, the Attorney General, Todd Blanche, held a press conference and was asked about Congressman Massie's push to impeach Todd Blanche's colleague.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLANCHE: Secretary Hegseth is doing a phenomenal job. And the Secretary of War doesn't just go off and do things. So, he follows the law. And so, the DOJ plays a role in that, and we play an active role in making sure the law is complied with.
You called it a war. I disagree with that characterization, as does most of Congress. And so, there's been votes on whether it's -- on whether -- on whether it's a war and what to do and why votes through Congress, which has determined there was -- that he's not doing anything wrong and the President's not doing anything wrong, should result in articles of impeachment. I guess you'll have to talk to Massie about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And Representative Massie is my source tonight.
And Congressman, what is your response to Todd Blanche? He says that most of Congress disagrees this is a war, and Pete Hegseth is following the law.
MASSIE: Well, first of all, Donald Trump needs to get to talking points because he calls it a war every day that he talks about it. He said the war will be over after the election.
COLLINS: That's true.
MASSIE: Number two, Todd Blanche is wrong. I mean, this is literally one of the articles of impeachment that I offered. There's a concurrent resolution, the first time in the history of the country of the United States, that the House and the Senate have passed a concurrent resolution, telling them to end the war, and they're not ending the war. So, that's one of my articles of impeachment that Congress, a majority of both chambers, has said to end this war.
COLLINS: And when I mentioned that a lot of people didn't know about this, Republican leadership didn't know about this. Why didn't you tell them you were planning to introduce this?
MASSIE: Every time they see the hand that I'm going to play, they get a chance to react.
So, last week that we were in session, I introduced the discharge petition for the Epstein files, the part two. What did they do? They called off two weeks of Congress between now and the election to keep me from getting to 218 signatures. This is the second Epstein recess. We had an Epstein recess a year ago, where they called off Congress for like six weeks.
So, I didn't want to show my hand. I didn't show it to anybody. I was afraid that they would do something to subvert me getting on the floor for an hour and 20 minutes and reading these articles.
COLLINS: And so, you read all of this. In terms of what happened here. Have you heard from Speaker Johnson, since this -- this afternoon?
MASSIE: I have not heard from Speaker Johnson. But he has two legislative days, actually 48 hours, to call this vote. So, he could call the vote tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. And that was another reason for the timing. If I were to offer this tomorrow instead of today, they could have punted this until after the election.
This is a hot war, you know, this could become a nuclear war. And in the interim, even if it doesn't, there are civilian casualties that are racking up greater than they would have otherwise.
Because another one of my articles of impeachment shows that Peter Hegseth has degraded the ability of the DOD to minimize civilian casualties. He asked Congress to repeal a law that requires him to minimize civilian casualties. Congress didn't do it, so he went ahead and did it on his own within the DOD, and the results were predictable. That's why 200 school kids were killed in the first attack on Iran.
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: Yes, you mentioned that attack in here, which obviously was on that elementary school. The Pentagon has repeatedly said that's under investigation. Does it shock you that they still have not come out and said anything about who was responsible, and the analysis and the expert evidence seems to point to the United States, even if accidentally, for that strike?
MASSIE: Yes, I'm not saying they did it intentional. They -- it was an accident, but it was an accident that was predictable because Congress has passed laws that require Peter Hegseth, or any other Secretary of Defense, to minimize civilian casualties. There's a department inside of the Department of Defense that he has basically degraded and disabled that could have prevented that mistake.
COLLINS: So, you mentioned that party leaders have to hold a vote on this. What do you think happens next here with these articles of impeachment?
MASSIE: So, I've looked back in history at articles of impeachment. As you said, this is probably the first time I didn't look at that, that a member of their own party has offered an impeachment on a Cabinet member.
They will probably dispense -- try to dispense with this, as they -- with a motion to table, and what that does is it insulates people from the actual substance of the vote. They will try to avoid having a vote on the impeachment, but to do that, they'll have to have a motion to table, or they could have a motion to refer it to committee.
And what I would say to my fellow congressmen is, even if you're not sure if you're going to vote for my resolution to impeach, we should have a robust debate on this. So, don't vote to table it yet. Let's vote not to table it, and then let's have the debate, and then we can decide whether to vote for it.
COLLINS: Why Hegseth and not President Trump, who is the commander-in- chief and is the one who gives Secretary Hegseth his orders?
MASSIE: So, that's a great question. Six of my eight articles of impeachment are basically implicating Secretary Hegseth for carrying out illegal orders that were given by Donald Trump.
But two of my articles of impeachment are unique to Secretary Hegseth. He took it upon himself to degrade, within the Department of Defense, the ability to discriminate against civilian targets. He also targeted Senator Mark Kelly using the Department of Defense. He tried to use everything at his disposal to squelch the free speech of Senator Mark Kelly when he said, ironically, that members of the military are not required to carry out illegal orders.
COLLINS: You mentioned your next petition on -- related to the Epstein investigation. No one thought the first one would pass, and it did, and it's why those files eventually became public. Ralph Norman, another Republican, just signed on to that today. I believe you only need one more Republican vote--
MASSIE: I need--
COLLINS: --to get enough signatures and all the Democrats. Is that right?
MASSIE: I need -- that is absolutely correct. I just need one more Republican, and I can tell you, there are many candidates who are ready to put their name on that. Republicans.
Mechanically, it's tough to get all of the Democrats down there to the floor. When you're sitting there voting and you look down at the discharge petition and there's a line, you say, Well, I'll do it in the next vote series, and then you forget to do it in the next vote series, so.
But we -- I think we gained 50 of the Democrat co-sponsors this week. If we can get to 218 by Thursday, that's very monumental, and I think we could do that. But even if we do, it takes seven days for it to ripen. In any case, there is a lame-duck session after the election. I'm pretty confident we're going to get Epstein Files 2.0 passed.
And people say, Why didn't you impeach Todd Blanche instead of Secretary Hegseth? It's because we haven't exhausted every legislative remedy, like we have with Hegseth. I think we can beat Todd Blanche at his game of hiding the rest of the Epstein files if we can get this new bill passed that gives the victims standing in court to sue him for those files, and also allows the New Mexico Attorney General to prosecute criminally, people who were at Zorro Ranch, under state law.
COLLINS: Congressman Thomas Massie, thank you for joining us tonight.
MASSIE: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Obviously, we'll continue following this.
I mentioned it was busy here in Washington today. Take a look at this: Bernie Sanders, Steve Bannon, sharing the same stage. We'll tell you why, with my political panel right after this.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: You probably did not have this on your 2026 bingo card. You probably didn't have a lot on your 2026 bingo card. If you predicted this, I want to talk to you.
But right now, you are looking at something that not many people thought was going to happen. Bernie Sanders, Steve Bannon, both on the same stage, even though they are two people who could not be further apart on the political spectrum. The two of them, though, joined forces today as they demanded more restrictions and accountability when it comes to the AI industry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Today, AI models can already escape human control, commit felonies by hacking into other computers and create viruses that have never been seen before.
The Big Tech oligarchs must no longer be allowed to determine the future of humanity.
STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP WH CHIEF STRATEGIST: I don't think you could find any two harder partisans than Bernie Sanders on the left and Steve Bannon on the right, and I think that speaks to not just Max (ph), but what to the threat is. We have to rise above it. This is a hinge in history. We have to handle this right, correctly. To handle it correctly, number one, we can never trust what an oligarch says because all they do, they're disingenuous and they lie. This has to be the American people.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:50:00]
COLLINS: Now, some of the nation's top AI leaders are warning that the technology is at a dangerous tipping point, and they believe poses a risk to all of humanity. As the President himself has said, he believes these concerns largely are a hoax.
My political sources tonight are:
Ameshia Cross, a former Obama campaign adviser.
And Scott Jennings, who was a former senior adviser to Mitch McConnell.
Scott, I should note, you are reportedly being considered for the role of the next White House press secretary. I think we just have to say it. I think most of the audience knows by now.
But on this issue itself, it has come to the point. Mark Zuckerberg just put out a statement, before we came on air tonight. I mean, this is obviously something that has riled up leaders on both sides of the political aisle here in Washington now.
What do you make, Scott, of seeing Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon pushing for the same issue?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SR. ADVISER TO MITCH MCCONNELL, FORMER SPECIAL ASST. TO PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, HOST, "THE SCOTT JENNINGS RADIO SHOW" ON SRN: Well, I see a lot of people who've been somewhat hostile to Donald Trump lately forming up here to try to slow down something that's critical to the future of the U.S. economy.
I mean, we can talk about guardrails, and I think it's proper for policymakers to talk about what's good for the American people here and how do you do things the right way. But you have to remember, China doesn't give a rip what we do here. They're not going to slow down on anything.
And if you believe, which President Trump believes, that this is a race between the United States and China, and we have to win it, we have to control the infrastructure on this. Then, listening to people trying to slow us down, while the Chinese continue to advance, seems like a pretty silly idea.
One of the thought I have is that all the people who constantly are telling us the world is coming to an end about this, that, or the other, have moved on to this thing now, and I'm sure in a couple of years it'll be something else. But you have this sort of group of people who are constantly apocalyptic in their thinking about whatever it is that happens to be going on, I feel like some of that's going on too.
COLLINS: What do you make of that?
AMESHIA CROSS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Well, I'll say when it comes to people worried about the apocalyptic aspect of it, Disney and Pixar was ahead of their time. They talked about this in WALL-E, and they also talked about it in Smart House. Millennials have watched all of those.
But beyond that, I think that this is one of those rare bipartisan moments that we see during this era, where there are people on both the left and the right, also people who are purple in the middle, who have legitimate fears about AI, specifically when it comes to some of the restraint, and a lot, and in large part because of what we've seen happen with young people, up to and including suicides, risk of a lot of bullying and a lot of the things that AI has done in terms of like sexually explicit things where it advises children.
But I think that at this point, the frustration that a lot of people have is based on something you talked about earlier in the segment. If AI is able to build itself outside of anybody's human mind, and they are able to hack into certain things, and they are able to compete, and they are able to do this without any level of restraint, without the public even knowing about until after it's done. That raises its own level of ire, and that requires us to reel it in to a certain point.
COLLINS: Yes, I guess -- I get you what you're saying, Scott, in terms of, This is the new thing, now everyone's talking about this.
That's not true for Bernie Sanders because every time we've had him on the show, it is something that he prioritizes and wants to talk about because he thinks it's a real concern.
But also, it becomes -- it comes as we're learning more from these companies about issues where AI has gotten out of their control, or it's done things it was not programmed to do, including the Hugging Face hack. Those are all things that have happened within the last six months.
JENNINGS: Look, the people asking for regulatory slowdown are -- it's in their best interests to have that. I mean, the two companies that are asking for this, they're by far the biggest players in the market. It would be in their interest to get sort of some liability protection here, and also to slow down any competitors that might be out there. But again--
COLLINS: But what about Steve Bannon? What -- what stake does he have in that, do you think?
JENNINGS: Well, I mean, he -- I think he's been critical of people in the tech industry for a very long time. I don't -- I mean -- so, if you've been critical of them, and some people have been, and that's fine. That really hasn't changed. Again, I see a bunch of people who've become critical of and want to slow down or derail or politically damage Donald Trump, coming together on this.
Trump, I think this is going to be one of his biggest legacy points. We look back in 10, 15, 20 years. If we win this, if the United States, and we're ahead right now, and if we win this, and our economy benefits from it, and we're the world power on this, it'll be due to the presidency of Donald Trump. And a bunch of people right now who don't want him to succeed or to have a legacy, I feel like, are trying to slow it down. I see a lot of politics in this.
CROSS: I think there are a lot of people arguing about a disadvantage for the economic benefits, specifically those who are watching hundreds of thousands of jobs get eradicated every day.
Part of the reason why we see people on multiple sides of the aisle push back against AI as much as they have is not necessarily because of that hack. As much as it is because on the daily, whether private sector industry is being honest or not, when they are excluding jobs, when they are cutting specific work functions, they are saying it's AI. So, we do have a large portion of the American public that is also blaming AI for the reason that they cannot get hired or keep the jobs that were previously there.
COLLINS: Ameshia Cross. And Scott Jennings. We will see what Washington decides on this.
Up next. It is time for Source Code. Of course, you know we give you a number at the center of a story that's in the news. Can you figure out what that story is? Tonight's Source Code is 929.
Any guesses, Scott?
JENNINGS: I don't know. But I will watch.
COLLINS: Stay tuned.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is 929. That's because that's how many goals the NHL's all-time scoring leader Alexander Ovechkin has scored in his legendary career for the Washington Capitals.
But this week, he's in the headlines for this. He was spotted in a pro-Putin ad for Russia's President -- for the Russian President's United Russia party. You can see him standing over the shoulder of the Russian Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov, there. And that comes as this weekend, Russia is holding its first national parliamentary election since Putin ordered his invasion of Ukraine in 2022. A Capitals spokesperson told CNN tonight, quote, "Alex Ovechkin is a Russian citizen who lives in Moscow with his family during the offseason and will live there following his retirement. This summer, while in Russia, he was asked by his country to participate in a video campaign."
Video campaign to say the least.
[22:00:00]
If you missed any of the show, it's available on demand to our subscribers on the CNN app. You can also check it out wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also follow me on Instagram and Twitter and Threads, @kaitlancollins, where I am always posting my latest reporting throughout the day.
Thanks so much for joining us here tonight on THE SOURCE.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
