Return to Transcripts main page
The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Republicans To Send $5 Million To Help Graham In SC Senate Race; Maryland Gov. Says Trump Blocked Him From Shipbuilding Event; Sen. Collins, Troy Jackson Clash In First Maine Senate Debate. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 06, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
DAVID FAHRENTHOLD, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes, he made money selling them, and then he made money when they didn't fly them.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Wow.
FAHRENTHOLD: Because the DHS then gave his companies the planes and said, Hey, take care of these until we figure out what to do with them.
COOPER: David Fahrenthold, as always, I appreciate the reporting. Thank you so much.
You can stream this show live or watch any CNN program on demand. In addition to getting original programming as well any time, any screen, any mobile device. All you need is an All Access subscription. Scan the QR code on your screen.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Tonight. Republican Senator Thom Tillis is here with his new book on what his fears and concerns are for the Republican Party, as he warns there could be an electoral bloodbath next month.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
The State of South Carolina has not elected a Democrat to the Senate in nearly 30 years. But tonight, CNN has learned that Republicans are actually pouring millions more dollars into the state in what they're calling a, quote, insurance policy to help their Senate nominee, Darline Graham, who is the sister of the late Senator Lindsey Graham, in a race that for the GOP is getting too close for comfort.
The fact that Republicans need a $5 million insurance policy in a state that the President won by double digits, just two years ago, is just the latest in a flurry of signs that Republicans are facing a potentially increasingly hostile environment, exactly four weeks from Election Day. But President Trump is arguing otherwise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: By the way, I'm going around doing rallies. The Republican Party is starting to go right through the roof. Somebody said today, I wonder why. Well, I started -- I had to get out. I had to do it. We had to explain what we're doing. There's never been a time like this in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: But some Republicans in tight races are indicating that they would rather the President stay away for the next month.
Just yesterday, the President suggested Maine might be on his list of places to go and campaign before November 3rd. But this was Senator Susan Collins during a debate earlier this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREGG LAGERQUIST, ANCHOR: President Trump this week said that he might actually visit Maine. Will you stand with him if he does?
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I don't think that President Trump is going to come to Maine. He's talking about going to a lot of different states. I've heard nothing from his office, and I'm not exactly his favorite senator.
LAGERQUIST: So, yes or no? Do you have a yes or no to that?
S. COLLINS: I would say that he is not coming to Maine.
LAGERQUIST: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: I think Trump would probably agree with her that she is not his favorite senator. He may not be in Maine. He may not be there campaigning with Senator Collins.
The President did leave a lasting impression with that rally in Nebraska last night, though. His critics are pretty upset about one comment he made in Grand Island, where he said this about high gas prices resulting from the war with Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And again, remember, with the war, it's just artificial. It's a little bit high. It's a small price to pay for keeping the world safe, keeping our country safe. They can take out a city. Let them take -- let them take out Los Angeles. Let them take out San Diego.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE) TRUMP: That's -- this is a very small price to pay, and it's going to be over with very soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: Now the White House responded to that and the criticism of that comment, saying that the President was clearly stating U.S. cities would have been threatened if a nuclear Iran had not been stopped.
And I should note, the President has made similar arguments to that before. When I asked the President twice today as he was leaving and coming back to the White House to clarify what he was saying there, he declined to comment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: What did you mean when you said 'Let them take out Los Angeles and San Diego'?
What were you talking about?
What did you mean when you said 'Let them take out Los Angeles and San Diego'?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: The President did answer, though, when he was asked about those controversial taxpayer-funded ads that he now says his Super PAC will pay for, instead of taxpayers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Will you reimburse the government for the millions of dollars already spent?
TRUMP: Well, the ads -- the ads were really good. They were promotion for the country. Done by many presidents before. So, we'll decide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: Now, the White House later confirmed to CNN, the President is not expected to reimburse taxpayers for the $10 million they already paid to run them.
But his decision to reverse course, going forward, comes after some unusually strong pushback from within his own party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): I like the message, but it shouldn't be paid for with taxpayer dollars.
[21:05:00]
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): I don't think any public official, including President Trump, or Kristi Noem, or John Kennedy, should spend public money on private ads for themselves.
REPORTER: What are your thoughts on that? Is it appropriate?
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): No. It's not even a close question.
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): It's not appropriate PSA. It's just not, you know, it's not how we should be spending taxpayer dollars. You know that -- you've taken money and communicating, regardless of the message, you're communicating fundamentally a political message. Doesn't make sense to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: The last Senator you just heard from there, Thom Tillis, has emerged as one of the President's most outspoken Republican critics in his final months before retiring from office. He is pretty blunt and open on the Trump administration in his analysis of how they've been doing in his new book. Part of which, of that book, he calls his vote for the President's Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, the biggest regret of his career.
Senator Tillis is also revealing a private text that he sent to the President earlier this year, where the message reads as such: As I have said before, you NEVER threatened me with a primary challenge. I get that you may have confused me with so many Republicans that you have threatened in the past, but NEVER me. If you had ever threatened me directly with a primary, I would have immediately told you to eff yourself, and I would have announced my retirement immediately. Save those threats and head games for cowards and fools.
My lead source tonight is Republican Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina, whose new book, "How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents," is out now, and is quite blunt, as is that text message.
TILLIS: Yes, well, you know, the--
K. COLLINS: I'm going to save that--
(CROSSTALK)
TILLIS: The thing I admire about President Trump is we've had positive exchange of texts even after that message. So, it's not -- I know, everybody's painting it as it was some sort of a swan song. We still maintain a relationship. I don't know if--
K. COLLINS: When was the last time you spoke to the President?
TILLIS: Spoke with him, it's probably been a month or so. But texting with him, more frequently, yes. You see, that's what I'm saying--
K. COLLINS: What do you guys talk about these days?
TILLIS: Talk about any number of things. But you know, I don't talk about what I talk about with the President. That was only a one-way communication. The point that I was trying to make there is, look, if the President challenges you in a primary, you would be a fool to proceed with it. Because take a look at Texas. Only 7 percent of the electorate came out. Of course, the President's going to control the outcome in a primary. He'd proved that in Texas. Now we're trying to pay for the loss of John Cornyn there.
But why on earth, if I'm in the number one targeted state in the nation, would I play some game of having to sing for my supper to win a primary, only to have maybe $400 million spent against me in a general, in an environment that you already know historically is negative? So, that math just didn't work for me.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
TILLIS: It was never a possibility that I would -- you know, that I would pursue that path. If he didn't want me -- that's why I told him, you know? And last year, I said, you need to find somebody else because just--
(CROSSTALK)
K. COLLINS: But let me ask you about that. Because your state -- we talked about South Carolina, last time they sent a Democrat to the Senate. Your state hasn't sent a Democrat to the Senate in what, 20 years?
TILLIS: Well, actually, I beat an incumbent Democrat. So, my seat -- this is the first time that a Republican's actually gotten -- anyone's gotten reelected since Jesse Helms in this seat when I got reelected in 2020.
K. COLLINS: But do you think, looking at the environment--
TILLIS: So, it was 12 years ago that a Democrat held this seat.
K. COLLINS: Looking at the environment now--
TILLIS: Yes.
K. COLLINS: --do you think that it would be any different for you, if the President is not on your side?
TILLIS: I -- look, what you need in North Carolina is not the -- we need the President. That's why I'm glad that the President's going out to these red states. I know a lot of people are criticizing him for that. We got to get the Trump MAGA base out.
But in North Carolina and some of these other states, if every single Trump MAGA person comes out, it's not enough to win a general election. So, we have to get the unaffiliated out. We have to get the people out that let me edge out Democrats two consecutive campaigns. That's what we've got to focus on.
And one of the ways you do that, like Susan Collins, you let Susan Collins be Susan Collins. She is a fierce defender of the people of Maine. You let Dan Sullivan, you let Jon Husted do what they need to do to communicate with their voters and come back into a majority.
K. COLLINS: I just played what you said about those taxpayer-funded ads that the President was running.
TILLIS: Yes.
K. COLLINS: He now says his campaign arm basically is going to fund any more of those going forward.
Should he reimburse the federal government though, for the taxpayer dollars that were used?
TILLIS: I think it would be a good look because, you know what the story is going to be. Even though he's recognized that he can go ahead, he has the resources to do it through political funds, it will be the $10 million that didn't get reimbursed.
Look, we are in the fight for our lives in keeping a majority in the U.S. Senate. I'm going to do everything I can to help anybody who wants my help. But there are going to be basis point margins probably in some of these states. We can't make a mistake.
[21:10:00]
I think a goodwill gesture to pay that $10 million back eliminates the news story, and we can move on to other things, about the positive things that Republicans have done in Congress. Let's focus on the positive. Let's not get our opposition a chance to take off 10, 15, 20 basis points? I mean, my races were under two percentage points both times, after hundreds of millions of dollars were being spent.
This is what this -- our success in getting a majority back in the Senate means that we have to spot the landing, from this point, for the next 28 days, to maintain that majority.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
TILLIS: And give the candidates the freedom to do and say what they're -- what they're -- what they believe in their hearts and what their constituents want to hear.
K. COLLINS: Even if that's breaking with the President?
TILLIS: A 100 percent. Look, all these candidates, including Susan Collins, vote for the vast majority of Trump's priorities. This fealty test thing is absurd.
And the people who have worked in the administration, that if you're not a 100 percent, you're not loyal, they need to go. That's a part of what I'm trying to communicate in the book. These folks have never run for and won elections. My colleagues have. They should be trusted to use the right judgment versus some unelected sycophant walking around the White House.
K. COLLINS: If Democrats do take the majority in the Senate, which they might. I mean, who knows? We'll see if the polling bears out. Do you think the White House is prepared for a potentially Democrat- controlled House and Democrat-controlled Senate?
TILLIS: We don't want to do that to the President. We don't want to do that to the Republican Party. The House is most likely, statistically speaking, it's hard to see how we come back with a majority. We need to be real about that.
And the reason why I don't want to code over something is I don't want people to stay home because they think that the Senate majority is lost. I want people to come out and try and get a majority back in the House. We have to have this as a bulkhead against just two years of inaction. Nothing but endless attacks of this president, and the administration, and Republicans.
K. COLLINS: Your book is pretty blunt. I've read a lot of politicians' books. Usually, they save it for like the end. Yours kind of gets into it right away.
TILLIS: I think I get it in the -- in the prologue actually.
K. COLLINS: Well, actually, you don't get past the prologue where you say President Trump has even thinner skin than I once thought he did. Seriously, what a snowflake.
TILLIS: He does have thin skin. It's like, get over it, folks. I mean, we're public figures. We get criticized every single day. Welcome to the club. Get past it. Don't be distracted by the -- that's exactly what people want. They want you to flake out over a comment. Get past it. Move on. Lead.
K. COLLINS: I mean, he's been in public office for quite some time now.
TILLIS: Yes. Yes. Eight years. I mean, that's fairly young by political standards, right? Or actually, six years, as a politician, elected politician.
And I don't think that he fully understands -- well, it's like the Los Angeles, San Diego comment. I don't think -- I think President Trump is the sort of person who's comfortable sitting around, having a discussion with folks, and you know, at the turn, and he doesn't realize that every word that he mentions is -- it has weight. It has more weight than any other person in the United States. You got to be really careful. Because, sometimes he says things in jest that are treated as serious -- seriously. I think that was taken out of context. I hope he'll clean that up.
K. COLLINS: Shouldn't he have clarified that, though?
TILLIS: Yes, I think so.
K. COLLINS: I mean, we gave him multiple opportunities to get it clarified.
TILLIS: Look, the one thing about the American people, they're forgiving people. And if you go to them and you tell them, Yes, I made a mistake, I'll learn from it, this what I'm going to do differently? They'd give you another chance.
But if you double down on bad ideas, then they don't give you a third chance.
K. COLLINS: You call the President thin-skinned. What went through your mind when he gave out Senator Tom Cotton's personal phone number over the weekend because he won't vote to make daylight savings permanent?
TILLIS: Well, number one, we're picking an issue where the country is almost evenly divided. Also, the thing that I look at is I wonder how that issue polls in the battleground states that we need to win. That's immediately what I think about. And look, I mean, everybody -- everybody may say, Well, it's an 80 percent issue nationwide. I don't care about nationwide. What I care about is in the states that we must win to keep a majority. That's what I'm saying.
The President needs to spot every landing for the next 28 days. We can't be spending time, explaining an offhanded comment. We need to be spending time, talking about tax cuts that made sense and that were made permanent. We need to talk about the economy that was on steroids when COVID hit us, and thank God that we made that a priority in 2017. We need to talk about the fact that the border is effectively shut down, after Biden left it open for four years and 4 million people.
Let's talk about those successes. Pivot back to them. The one thing you learn in politics: you need to talk about your successes over and over and over again. Nothing new. The things that the American people are interested in. I think we're easily distracted by red herrings. That is not the way to spot the landings over the next 28 days.
K. COLLINS: You write in your book, and I'm quoting you now. If my dad is listening. Quote, If you want bullshit predictions, go ask Russ Vought.
That's the Budget Director of the President's.
TILLIS: Yes.
K. COLLINS: And this is what the President actually just said about him today, in Baltimore, Maryland.
[21:15:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Director of the Office of Management and Budget, Russ Vought, who is fantastic, he's done a job. We have some big surprises coming up in another few weeks, right, Russ? He's going to be one of the very important people in the history of our country, in my opinion. He's got some great things happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: What do you hear in that when the President says there's some big surprises coming from Russ Vought? TILLIS: Well, I think the big surprise is going to be when we don't have goodwill with the Democrats to try and get regular order appropriations done. Because OMB -- people need -- Susan Collins is an extraordinary Chair of Appropriations, and she has a lot of trust with Democrats, trying to get regular order appropriations done versus these CRs.
But when OMB rescinds funding that were priorities to get Democrats on board, what credibility does that give Susan Collins to go in and say, this compromise that we're making we're going to hold to? These guys do not understand legislating. The last time this guy had a business job was when he was putting himself through law school. And now, he's trying to act like he can run the business of government versus going to Susan Collins.
Imagine -- as in appropriations, she's a much kinder, much more patient person than me. I'm going in, I'm negotiating these deals, I've got credibility with the Democrats. And then this person undercuts my credibility -- how could I go back in and do another deal?
K. COLLINS: Yes.
TILLIS: He will be probably singularly responsible for CRs going into the year-end.
K. COLLINS: You're not very -- or you're very unsparing, I should note, against a lot of people in the President's cabinet.
TILLIS: Coup d'affaires (ph).
K. COLLINS: You say Pete Hegseth is the biggest regret of your career. You admit that you should have stopped RFK Jr. from becoming Health Secretary. You say Tulsi Gabbard won't be challenging anyone for President of her local Mensa chapter. You say Kristi Noem's a dog murderer, and that Howard Lutnick, quote, is nuttier than squirrel shit.
TILLIS: Yes, I stand by all that. What else you got?
K. COLLINS: Is there anyone good that you think Trump has hired?
TILLIS: Yes, I mean the majority of people in the Cabinet I support.
K. COLLINS: That's the majority of his Cabinet in his first year.
TILLIS: No, it's not. These are the -- these people--
K. COLLINS: They've either left or have been fired, but.
TILLIS: These are -- right. And incidentally, this person had seven Democrats vote for.
But the point is, we hired them. We made a decision to put them in there. I'm giving them their annual review. They didn't pass. You cycle them out. Get somebody else, get somebody in there that can tell the President the truth, set the priorities right, and get us re- elected. That's all this is about.
Look, I've been a Republican all my life, starting back in Tennessee. I'm going to be a Republican till the day I die. We've got problems right now that we need to fix because we've got -- I was coming back. I was riding on a train today. I had a guy come up to me said, you know, Senator -- he recognized me. He said, I've been a Republican for 56 years, but I don't think I can support y'all this year. I like what you're saying, but I don't like what the party's for right now. I need that -- I said, I hope you'll change your mind.
Because you need to understand, the Democrats win with that thought. It's not another Republican that wins. The Democrats win, and I have to believe that at the end of the day, you don't want that. We've got to have a discussion with the Republicans who are a bit frustrated now, knowing there are people like me that are going to go back and get us back focused on the main thing.
The President--
K. COLLINS: Yes, he might like you, but you're leaving.
TILLIS: The pre -- but there are people that'll follow behind me. The President is a populist president. He is going to do a good job of bringing out that base that's uniquely motivated by him.
Traditional conservatives, traditional Republicans have to do their part to get the other folks out and say, Guys, we're dealing with populism just like the Democrats did with Trump -- I'm sorry, with Biden, and with Obama, and we've got to get through it. But you don't abandon your party; you double down on fixing the problems that are making challenges for us right now.
K. COLLINS: But do you think what Republicans have done in the last two years in Washington, from the White House, to the Senate, to the House, that voters should say, Yes, we want two more years of that.
TILLIS: I think it's tough. I think that we have to admit that the economy because, of the war and for other reasons, the economy we inherited from Biden, we promised we'd fix it. We haven't fixed it substantially. Own it, and say.
But if the President went to the American people and said, I know you are suffering energy prices right now. But let me tell you, I'm stopping a terrorist regime from having nuclear power capabilities that could bring democratic nations, like the United States, to their knees. I have to do this. I know it's painful, but I also know they represent an existential threat. If they develop nuclear capabilities, then they can deliver it.
Then the American people going, You know what? Maybe I do have to pay a couple of dollars more.
But until it's explained that way, and until we have a Secretary of Defense who will actually articulate a strategy and measure goals? It's very difficult to convey that message. K. COLLINS: Yes, but also, I mean, the White House, the administration, told Americans it would last four to six weeks. Here we are, seven, going on eight months.
[21:20:00]
TILLIS: Yes. Oh no -- frankly, I thought Epic Fury was a success, told the President that. I appreciated the fact that he had the courage to go in there.
But in April, at the latest, we should have been implementing the sanctions regime and the fiscal measures that now our Treasury is taking forth. So, there was a gap there, and I have to lay that at the feet of the Secretary of Defense. At some point, we needed to know what the beginning and end -- middle and end was going to look like.
And the reason why I had the issue with the War Powers Resolution is I'm sick of Pete Hegseth treating us like we're some sort of manufacturing line versus his board of director.
This guy has made a request for $1.5 trillion without any details or any active engagement with the U.S. Congress and the Senate Armed Services Committee. That actually, more than anything, demonstrates his ineptitude as an executive because, any effective executive would go to his board and make sure they know every step of the way what they're doing. And so, that's where he's failed.
He is putting at risk funding that we desperately need to give to the Department of Defense because, I think there's a lot of people between what the OMB is doing and what Hegseth is doing that have no confidence in him.
K. COLLINS: Is he, I mean, what you refer to in your book as MAGATS? MAGATS?
TILLIS: MAGATS, yes.
K. COLLINS: Is that -- would you consider qualify Pete Hegseth as one of those?
TILLIS: Oh, a 100 percent. I mean, do you honestly--
K. COLLINS: And can you define what that is for people who have not read your book, like I have?
TILLIS: MAGA. We all know what Make America Great Again is.
Then TS, Trump Sycophants. And you got people that, Oh that's a great idea, Mr. President. Or Mr. President, I got a great idea for you.
You know what? When you tell the President, he's got a great idea, when in your heart of hearts you know it's not? Then you're lying to the President. You're lying to the President. You're misleading him.
We owe it to the President to give him the upward feedback, as members of the U.S. Senate, and as members of his Cabinet, to make his legacy better. And if they have a tough discussion, if he doesn't like it, then you ought to be able to go find a job somewhere else. But at least you can look in the mirror and be proud of how you served.
K. COLLINS: And there's a part in your book that alarmed me, where you're talking about people who think that Trump can basically do whatever he wants. Maybe he should go for a third term, install himself as another president, which he would be late into his 80s, as you noted.
You said, I don't know how seriously to take these people. Then again, I wasn't sure how seriously to take the psychos who stormed up the steps of the Capitol building on January 6th until they effing did it. So what do I know?
Do you actually worry that something like that could happen, come 2028?
TILLIS: No, no. The President understands the Constitution. I think he's toyed with people because he has fun with it. It's kind of like when I go down to Raleigh and--
K. COLLINS: Is it funny?
TILLIS: Well, you know it is for the people that all really believe that it's a thing or possible. It's kind of like why I go to Raleigh from time to time to fool people, or the press, into thinking I want to run for governor.
I think that that's what he's doing. He understands the Constitution, the law, and he also knows that we would -- we would honor and respect that.
K. COLLINS: Senator Thom Tillis. It is quite a book. It is quite a read. And, as you noted, it starts at the prologue.
The book is "How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents." Maybe President.
Senator Thom Tillis, thank you for joining us.
Up next here. The President is highlighting a new defense project in Maryland today. But the state's Democratic governor says he was actually blocked from speaking at the event he was invited to speak at. Governor Wes Moore will join me right after this.
[21:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: In a tremendous victory for our country and for the City of Baltimore, Anduril is investing $3.7 billion in a state-of-the-art shipyard that will be known forever as Arsenal-2. It's one of the most -- one of the biggest, and one of the most significant shipyards.
You'll build the next generation of American submarines, including autonomous subs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: That was President Trump today, near Baltimore, where he was touting a major new multi-billion-dollar investment in submarine manufacturing.
One person who was notably not in attendance there today, who did play a key role in bringing the defense tech company to his state, was the state's Democratic governor, Wes Moore. That's because, we're told, the President actually blocked him from speaking at the event. It's not the first time we've seen these two leaders go back and forth. The President also, as you'll recall, barred Governor Moore from attending a Governor's Dinner at the White House, last year.
And my source tonight is Maryland Governor, Wes Moore.
And thank you, sir, for being here.
How did you find out that you were no longer invited to speak on stage in your home state?
GOV. WES MOORE (D-MD): Well, we found out late last night. And this was -- this was after a year of working on this deal, where we were working on this deal because we knew the type of impact that it was going to have. That Maryland was involved in a very competitive process.
That, after we were selected and were ecstatic about it and were being told about the run of show, we then also got word that the President of the United States was trying to block me from speaking at an event that our work was the work that actually had made the project happen.
And so, in the final day, the President decides to give a speech and take the credit, which is pretty par for the course. Where you don't do the work but you get all the credit? That is the Trump way.
K. COLLINS: The White House's version of this was, they said, It's unfortunate that the Governor is now making a multi-billion-dollar announcement about himself by throwing a tantrum over a federal initiative that will bring sorely needed jobs back to his state, thanks to President Trump.
What's your reaction to that statement?
MOORE: We are really proud of what has happened when it comes to economic growth and development in our state. The job growth rate in the State of Maryland has nearly doubled the national average over the past six months. We have added over 64,000 new businesses to the State of Maryland since I've been the governor. Had over $17 billion of private investment that has happened in Maryland, where we are both growing our economy but also diversifying it.
[21:30:00]
And so, I don't need the President's attaboy for the job that we are doing because I am not here because of the President of the United States. I'm here because of the 6.5 million people who call the State of Maryland home, who I fight for and I work for, every single day, to make their lives a little better.
K. COLLINS: When the White House says the President deserves credit for the jobs that'll be coming to Maryland. What role would you say he played in the announcement today?
MOORE: Well, I think the partnership of the federal government is important in all this. But I can't begin to try to understand the President's insecurities, or I can't begin to try to understand why the President seems to have an issue being in the same room.
But what I do know is this: is that while it's obvious that I spend a lot of time on the President's mind, the only thing that's on my mind is making sure that we can protect our people from these illegal tariffs and the rising prices that are coming from it, from these foreign wars that no one seems to have an answer for, and making sure that we can both push back, but also push forward at the same time, on behalf of the people of Maryland.
K. COLLINS: Do you think the President's decision, not wanting you to speak on stage, has anything to do with the midterm elections that are coming up?
MOORE: Well, listen, I think that the President might have been, you know, might have been nervous about what I was going to say.
But what I was going to say was just simply this: Congratulations, Maryland. You won a very competitive process that now is the lar -- is one of the largest individual investments, private investments that we have had in our state's history. Congratulations, Maryland. We now have a project that's going to be, you know, that's going to bring over 3,100 direct jobs and indirectly support about 14,000 jobs. Congratulations, Maryland. We now have a project that's going to bring about the same amount of jobs as what we had during Bethlehem Steel, when they were in Baltimore.
And so, Maryland deserves the credit. Marylanders deserve the credit. This is a very big deal. And truthfully, while I am very confident about how we're going to do in the midterm elections, today was not going to be about that. Today was going to be about the people of Maryland.
K. COLLINS: In terms of how this deal will work, the President said today in his speech that American taxpayers will receive a 40 percent stake in the new shipyard. Do you know how that will work?
MOORE: I have no idea how that is going to work. I've heard a lot of numbers that have gotten -- that have gotten thrown out from the President, in recent days, to include, you know, $5,000 that's going to be given if the Republicans win, and money that's going to be given to seniors. So, I -- you would have to ask the White House about how exactly that is, about how an equity stake he's taking (ph) is going to work.
K. COLLINS: So, you have no idea what he's talking about?
MOORE: I know that what we have with Anduril and the investment that's going to be taking place that Anduril is making with us, but also the investment that Maryland is going to be making in workforce development and workforce pipelines for Anduril is, you know, those are the partnerships that we can speak to. But how the President is taking an equity stake in them is one I can't respond to.
K. COLLINS: Governor Wes Moore, thank you for your time tonight.
MOORE: Thank you so much.
K. COLLINS: Ahead for us. Candidates in Maine's Senate race just wrapped up their critical debate. Senator Susan Collins was confronted over her vote to confirm Brett Kavanaugh as the next Supreme Court justice. Is that a vote that could cost her in this race? We'll let you listen to what she said after this.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: It is exactly one month until the midterm elections. And tonight, there was a critical debate underway in Maine, where Republican Senator Susan Collins was facing off against her Democratic challenger, Troy Jackson, in a race that could determine control of the chamber.
Here's just a taste of how that went tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
S. COLLINS: Maine has the fourth highest electricity rates in the country. It has some of the highest housing costs in the entire country.
Those are all due to Augusta's failed policies under the failed leadership of Troy Jackson.
TROY JACKSON, (D) MAINE SENATE CANDIDATE: Senator Collins is like an arsonist who helps set the fire, and then she wants credit for bringing a cup of water to put it out.
All of her Republican colleagues called her a team player. She stood with Donald Trump whenever he wanted that. 96 percent of the time, she votes with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: And my political sources are here with me now.
When we look at that debate, I mean, how did the two of you think it went tonight?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, I think it went well for Susan Collins. I mean, as she pointed out, this guy was the President of the Senate of Maine. A third of the legislation he attempted to pass couldn't even make it out of committee. To her point, if you can't even get your own Democratic colleagues to vote for you, how in the world are you going to deliver for Maine residents in a divided Senate? How is that possible?
This guy has a track record that doesn't showcase one of success, but one of failures. As opposed to Susan Collins, who is independent. Maybe you don't like all of her policies. But she has a track record of working across the aisle, even when some folks on my side don't like it. And I think that's the type of political leader you want in Washington, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat.
K. COLLINS: How did you hear that?
AMESHIA CROSS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes, I hate to agree with Shermichael on this one.
K. COLLINS: Wow.
[21:40:00]
CROSS: But I feel like there was a lack -- there was a lack of preparation there. He had to know that some of these instances were going to be brought up. And at the end of the day, I think he got caught flat-footed. Those are going to be -- that's probably the most memorable sound bite of the entire debate.
And unfortunately for him, we all know how he got into this position to begin with. I expected a stronger showing. Also, I think that this one may not be as competitive as people initially thought it was. A lot of the shift in the ticket caused that problem. But also, I would argue that of the candidates who were then vying for that Democratic Senate spot, none of them were really showstoppers. So, we get what we got.
K. COLLINS: Yes. There was one moment though where I mentioned Brett Kavanaugh got brought up and Susan Collins' vote to confirm him, what that looks like for the makeup of the Supreme Court. And this is what was said during that part.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: Eight years ago today, Maine women went to D.C. and begged Senator Collins not to confirm Brett Kavanaugh, but she did it anyways. Even though they begged her. He helped overturn Roe versus Wade, and today she says she has no regrets.
LAGERQUIST: You said at the time that he said that he considered Roe v. Wade settled law. Do you feel at any level that Brett Kavanaugh lied to you on that day?
S. COLLINS: I do not feel that he lied, but I think that he should not have said it was settled law because, to me, that meant that it would not be overturned. But to be fair, you cannot ask a nominee how he might vote on some hypothetical future case. (END VIDEO CLIP)
K. COLLINS: Do you think voters understand an argument like that?
CROSS: I don't think voters are going to be necessarily moved by that argument. They think that at this point affordability is folks' number one concern.
And unfortunately, even with that argument, not only did Brett Kavanaugh say it, everybody who was on the Supreme Court at the time had said it as well. I remember all the memes going around of those who had been appointed by conservatives with their hands behind their backs and their fingers crossed. Like everybody said the same thing.
I think that procedurally she is a 100 percent correct. Does that make a difference to people whose lives are at stake, who are making one of the toughest decisions of their lives, women who are at risk, who are forced to terminate their pregnancies because of the bodily harm associated with continuing said pregnancies that are already in crisis? Absolutely not.
However, again, I don't think that women's reproductive rights are the top-level concern during this election cycle. Are people still concerned? Absolutely. But it's not the top one, two, three, four, or five during this particular election.
SINGLETON: Yes, this is the best that Troy Jackson has gotten in his toolbox, and this guy should just pack it up and go home. I mean, he should pack it up and go home.
To your point, Ameshia, folks want to know about the cost of living, they want to know about affordability, interest rates for housing. Houses, I think a buddy of mine was telling me today who works in real estate is now 7 percent. Most people our age can't -- can't afford that.
CROSS: Jobs. AI. Student loan debt. Like there's so many things he said -- in order.
SINGLETON: And so, he should have been talking about that. And I can say this objectively, I think you would agree, and he's talking about an issue that we've already debated several years ago. That again, I know this is an issue you focus a lot on, Ameshia. It is important. But it is not a top issue for most people out there. So, if that's all he got, man, pack it up and go home.
K. COLLINS: When you heard Thom Tillis tonight say that he does think that the President should reimburse the federal government for those taxpayer-funded ads. They're not going to be making them anymore. It was about $10 million. He says he does because he thinks that otherwise, it's just any issue that is something that can be used against Republicans the next month. He thinks the White House should try to limit that. And he thinks that if they just funded them or paid them back, that it would -- it would take the story away.
Do you agree with him? SINGLETON: I mean, ethically, I agree. But I don't -- again, I'm not certain how many voters out there are looking at this issue and saying, This is going to determine whether I vote for a Republican or a Democrat.
K. COLLINS: Well he's saying if the margin is small--
SINGLETON: Yes, I don't -- I don't -- I don't -- I don't -- I don't agree with -- I don't agree with that.
K. COLLINS: --0.2 percent, it could make a difference.
SINGLETON: When I look at the successes of Democrats since last year, it's been their hyper focus on cost of living and an ineffectiveness, they would argue, from my side in addressing those concerns.
I don't really see many of the candidates that are in some of these battleground states focusing on this small issue as opposed to saying there are far more tangible things that will impact your day-to-day that Republicans are just aloof to because they refuse to set up President Trump. That's what I think most--
CROSS: Remember when Trump promised Americans those tariff rebate checks? They're still waiting on those. I don't think that this is necessarily an issue.
K. COLLINS: Ameshia Cross. Shermichael Singleton. Great to have you both here tonight. Thank you for joining us.
Up next. Tomorrow marks three years since the October 7th Hamas terrorist attack. My global affairs source and former Biden insider, Brett McGurk, is going to join me, as he reveals what happened behind the scenes at the White House, in his new book.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: Tomorrow marks three years since the deadly October 7th attacks, where Hamas terrorists led a brutal assault on southern Israel that killed more than 1,000 Israelis, and where they kidnapped more than 250 other people and took them into Gaza.
But a new book goes inside the Biden administration's response amid fears of sparking an all-out regional war. In one tense phone call with Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, in April of 2024, President Biden warned that the United States could be forced in shipments of American weapons to Israel. President Biden stating, Bibi, man, what the f are you doing... Adding, You think I'm Santa Claus? No Santa in Israel, pal.
CNN's Global Affairs Analyst, Brett McGurk, was inside the Oval Office for that call and led the U.S. efforts to free the hostages. His new book, "Brink: Inside the Race to Free the October 7th Hostages," is out now.
And Brett joins me.
And congrats on the book. It's a really fascinating read inside of what was happening in these conversations.
[21:50:00]
For that tense phone call between Biden and Netanyahu. I mean, how much of that kind of said what their relationship was like at the time?
BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, FORMER MIDDLE EAST & NORTH AFRICA COORDINATOR, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL, AUTHOR, "BRINK": Yes.
K. COLLINS: What was actually going on?
MCGURK: By April of 2024, and the book chronicles the whole right up to that moment and then beyond, it was just, you know, the President was just frustrated. It was -- hostage talks had collapsed. I detail why that was. We had a terrible strike against a number of aid workers with Jose Andres' World Central Kitchen. And we are also preparing for what looked like Iran was going to launch the largest, one of largest ballistic missile and drone attacks in history against Israel. So, we have to help defend Israel.
And the President in that call was very direct, very colorful language, as you just quoted, but he also said, you know, look, Bibi, we're going to help defend you -- and he deployed U.S. military forces to help defend Israel -- And after we do that, we're getting back to this deal.
And the book goes through that whole sequence. You're in the Situation Room as the missiles are coming. Tremendous uncertainty because had those missiles gotten through and inflicted Israeli casualties, the Israelis are about to launch a massive attack into Iran. We would have had an all-out war--
K. COLLINS: Yes.
MCGURK: --in the middle of before we even got Gaza settled down. So, that's just one of the moments in this book.
I'm just reflecting, Kaitlan, tonight. It's October 6th. So, three years ago right now, and the book talks about this. And I came home. It was a Friday night. I put my daughter to bed. And I started to get calls in the Situation Room from the Israeli ambassador. There are rockets from Gaza. There's incursions from Gaza. And then Mike Herzog, Israel's ambassador, after midnight, three years ago tonight, we're at war. And it unfolded from there. And I kind of document how that came together, what we were seeing, what the Israelis were seeing, and then trying to respond to it.
K. COLLINS: What's it like to think about that now, as we are on the eve of the third anniversary? Because I mean, everyone remembers that day, waking up to that horrific news. Now that you can see what has happened in hindsight, what is that like for you as someone who was in the Room? MCGURK: I just, I mean, I reflect on October 6th, today, three years ago, I had a Saudi delegation in my office because we were working on a deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel, for Saudi Arabia to recognize Israel, with the Palestinian Authority encompassed into that deal.
And I shook hands with Princess Reema, the Saudi ambassador, that day on -- you know, we want to get that deal done by the end of the year and roll it out in the first quarter of 2024. Tony Blinken was on his way to the region. That's kind of where we were moving. And I think that it would not have settled the Palestinian-Israeli issue by any stretch. But it brought the weight of Saudi Arabia being able to engage with both parties.
Just a month before that, the Saudis sent a senior official to Ramallah, to the West Bank, for the first time in 55 years. I mean, that's what was happening before what unfolded just a few hours from now, three nights ago.
So, I think about where we were. The first chapter is promise; it talks about that. Then the second chapter is war, and it unfolds from there.
K. COLLINS: Well, and it is fascinating to see that other side of what was being said to Netanyahu at the time by Biden, how U.S. officials were dealing with him. As we're coming up on these elections in Israel, I also wonder how you're looking at that and his leadership.
MCGURK: Such an inflection point. I wrote a piece for CNN at the end of last year of kind of the key inflection points coming up in 2026, and this Israeli election is really one of them. I actually reference it in the book, which I wrote some many months ago now.
Look, Israel needs to pull together somehow a broader coalition, unity type government. It has a very narrow government right now, the most right-wing government in history. There are members of that cabinet that are just so beyond the pale, and they make any progress, any political progress, almost futile.
And then you have Hamas clinging to power in Gaza, which also sets a precondition. Any hope you want on this issue, whatever side you're on, Hamas cannot cling to power in Gaza. You have to have a new configuration in Gaza. There's a lot of work going on there.
And we have to have a broader coalition in Israel than this current narrow coalition government. I mean, I'm kind of old-fashioned. You know, George Washington set a precedent, after eight years, you kind of walk away from the scene. I'm not going to tell Israelis how to vote, but I think a broader unity government is really what the country needs.
K. COLLINS: Well, and also we've seen that frustration through, you know, with the Biden phone calls. I mean, that also has happened with President Trump--
MCGURK: Sure.
K. COLLINS: --when he's been on the phone with Netanyahu.
MCGURK: If you want to see what it's like with Bibi Netanyahu, it's in this book. I'm sitting with him face-to-face. I'm in the Oval Office when the President's on the phone with him. But also all the other actors on the field.
K. COLLINS: Yes.
MCGURK: The leaders of Iran. I'm in the room in Oman with the Iranians. You're dealing with all the leaders across the Middle East, kind of their characters in this book that come to life.
[21:55:00]
And talking about the Trump administration, at the end of this, we work together. Me and Steve Witkoff. Two administrations coming together to actually get a ceasefire and to get hostages coming out before the inauguration. So, that's kind of the final chapters here right in the book.
K. COLLINS: Yes, that's a fascinating read.
Brett McGurk, thank you for joining us.
MCGURK: Thank you.
K. COLLINS: Up next. It is time for Source Code. Tonight, the Source Code is nine. I'll be right back with the story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
K. COLLINS: Tonight's Source Code is nine, as in Tropical Depression 9 that is now formed in the southwestern Gulf. And right now, the storm system is expected to become a tropical storm before strengthening into a hurricane on Thursday.
It would be the first one of this Atlantic season, after El Nino gave us the first no-hurricane September in decades. And as it heads towards the coast, the storm is expected to strengthen to a Category 2 and likely impact areas from southern Louisiana to the Florida Panhandle.
[22:00:00]
We'll keep you updated on the storm as it strengthens. And for live updates and alerts, you can always download the CNN Weather app. It's excellent. I use it every day.
Thanks so much for joining us here tonight.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT" starts now.
