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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Three Children, One Teacher Killed In Oregon Elementary School Shooting; AOC Campaigns With El-Sayed In Michigan's Reliably Red Areas; Reuters: Order To Limit Starshield For Ukraine Came From Inside WH. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 15, 2026 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --it's a really moving conversation. I hope you listen to it.
You can listen to the full conversation, wherever you get your podcasts, or watch the entire episode at CNN.com/AllThereIs. It's available right now there. That's where you can also see my new streaming companion show, All There Is Live, every Thursday -- or every other Thursday at 09:15 p.m. Eastern Time.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE" starts now.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: I'm Boris Sanchez, in for Kaitlan Collins.
The breaking news tonight: three children and one teacher were killed in a shooting at Silver Rail Elementary School in Bend, Oregon, this afternoon. A child and a teacher have been transported to the hospital in critical condition.
Law enforcement sources say the shooter was a 16-year-old male.
Moments ago, police gave a press conference describing the first 911 call coming from someone in a vehicle, who said they had been shot at multiple times by a person with a long gun. Just moments later, multiple calls to police reported the person had entered the school.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE KRANTZ, POLICE CHIEF, BEND POLICE DEPARTMENT: At 01:02 p.m., our first officers arrived on scene.
Moments later, an officer reported that the suspect had been shot by a community member who had seen the suspect enter the school and pursued him into the school and engaged him.
Our officers entered the building and confirmed the suspect was dead. They cleared the school to ensure there were no additional threats and then rendered emergency aid to the victims.
Officers at the scene located five people who had succumbed to their injuries, including the suspect. The deceased at the scene include three children, ages five, eight, and 11, and one teacher. One 7-year- old child and one 54-year-old teacher were transported by Bend Fire to St. Charles Bend with critical injuries. The families of the victims have all been notified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Police say the suspect forced his way into the school by shooting at locked doors.
Let's bring in:
John Miller, CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst.
Jason Pack, retired FBI supervisory special agent.
And Darrin Porcher, a former NYPD lieutenant.
John, let's start with you. What are you hearing from sources about this shooting?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTEL ANALYST: Well, they're investigating the 16-year-old shooter to determine what the possible motive was here. Whether he had gone to that school? How did he get that gun? Was it from the home? And a number of questions that have to be answered.
At the same time, they're trying to piece together exactly what occurred from the time that that person arrived in that parking lot. Did he drive there? Was he dropped off? Did he walk?
He opened fire, first, at a car in the parking lot, and then shot his way through the doors to get into the school. The doors were locked. We haven't seen that, but in past instances, we've seen shooters shoot through the glass of the door and then make entry.
A person followed him in with a licensed handgun and engaged the shooter, who by that time had already, shot and wounded and killed a number of people, including three children, but also two teachers who were likely trying to defend the children, as he came in.
So, this happened extraordinarily quickly. Police got there extraordinarily quickly. And even as they got there, the shooting part was over.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
Jason. So, as you just heard in the outline, police got there shortly after 01:00 p.m. The shooter apparently first opening fire into a car and then going into the school. When you hear that timeline, what do those details reveal to you about possible premeditation?
JASON PACK, RETIRED SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT, FBI: Well, that's the question that the Bend Police, Deschutes County Sheriff's Office, are going to answer. It certainly seems like they had a plan and they were determined to get through there by going in, shooting the glass out, allegedly, and then making entry. And then, fortunately, that concealed carry person was there to eliminate the threat.
And, you know Boris, no matter what we say here tonight, nothing's going to ease the pain of these families that have lost their loved ones and their teachers. But having said all that, these teachers, these drills, I think that we go through, as students these days, here in Bend tonight, probably saved a few more lives because they were locked down. They made it harder for this shooter to get before that concealed carry permit person could come and eliminate that threat.
SANCHEZ: That's a good point.
Darrin. The suspect, 16-years-old. We don't know his connection to the elementary school. If he had been a student there, perhaps. How do police go about collecting the evidence that brings this context to light?
DARRIN PORCHER, FORMER NYPD LIEUTENANT, FORMER ARMY RESERVE OFFICER, CRIMINAL JUSTICE EXPERT: Well, if you look at the history as it relates to these mass shootings. One of the things that we -- that which are always supported in these investigations would be there's a grievance.
[21:05:00]
What was the grievance that the shooter looked to air, and that's something that we'll be able to recover when we do the background assessment based on his computer, his phone, things to that effect. We got to look to see if he possibly traveled on the dark web, and he was a part of a particular group, or this was a copycat offense from something that happened in the past.
That being said, when we look through the lens of these mass shootings, they are -- a mass shooting is very different than your normal street crime. When I say normal street crime violence, meaning, I give you an example. Someone looks to rob someone, and in the midst of robbing that person, they shoot and kill him.
Here, with these mass shootings, they're very different. As I mentioned in the earlier part, it's that grievance. And the one troubling narrative here is we have a 16-year-old less in possession of a long gun, where in the -- in the state, you need to be 18-years- old to be in possession.
SANCHEZ: Right.
PORCHER: So, it begs the question of: Do we possibly have a prosecution for an adult in this case? And we look to what happened in the Crumbley shooting, back in Illinois, whereas the parents were actually criminally prosecuted based on their unwillingness or not taking the appropriate action to ensure that the firearm didn't fall in the hands of a minor.
SANCHEZ: Yes, that potentially set a precedent for other similar cases.
John, to that point from Darrin about having to be at least 18 to buy a long gun in Oregon. How do officials figure out how the suspect got this weapon?
MILLER: Well, they'll be able to bring in ATF, who's already on the scene. ATF, Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. They will trace the serial number of that gun to the point of sale. That'll bring them to a gun store, and that will bring them to a paper record that's on file that says who they sold that weapon to.
What we have seen statistically, Boris, is that in the vast majority of these school shootings carried out by kids, the gun came from the home.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MILLER: And as Darrin pointed out, in the Crumbley case, those parents got lengthy sentences, 10 and 15 years. In the Appalachia, Georgia case, another lengthy sentence for the father. So, this is part of the new reality for parents if their kid is going to become a school shooter, you know, there's legal liability, criminal liability there too.
SANCHEZ: Officials at the press conference that just wrapped up a few moments ago characterized the person who shot the suspect as a community member, Jason. And we are getting some brand-new EMS radio dispatch that indicates it may have been a father. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DISPATCHER: We are taking an active shooter call at 61530 SE Stone Creek Lane. It looks like the shooter has been neutralized, possibly shot by a father at the school. Not sure about patients at this time. The police are arriving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And again, Oregon's Governor, Tina Kotek, confirmed just moments ago, a community member intervened to help prevent further loss of life.
I wonder if you think that that person is someone that officials are zeroing in on tonight and getting their view of what happened.
PACK: Oh, I think the father must have had a child at the school and saw the shooter go in with a rifle or a long gun, whatever I think we've determined it to be yet, and eliminated that threat. His kid was in that school, and he did not stand by and wait for the police to come, it appears, based on this audio that you're just releasing. It appears he decided to take action and probably saved lots of lives.
SANCHEZ: Darrin, we were talking about the number of school shootings and sort of the typical cases. There have been at least 52 school shootings in the U.S. this year, 36 of which were on K-through-12 school grounds.
The FBI director tonight said the FBI is assisting in the investigation, saying, quote, "We will make every resource they need available." Talk to us about what that coordination has looked like in the past, and what that says about what it might look like in this situation.
PORCHER: Well, Boris, in connection with those 52 school shootings, we've had 28 deaths. So, it's clear that these school shootings are reaching epic proportions.
No school district wants to be the next Uvalde. So, as a result of that, we want to follow the teachable moments of the past in terms of how we can create a more robust and fortified school system without having armored tanks in front of the establishment.
The FBI, the state law enforcement, as well as local law enforcement, are going to triangulate a strategy in terms of how they can address this situation in particular. But this has been a mounting task for years on end. We have more guns than people in the United States, and these school shootings are far too much.
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We look at the United States as this violent entity and, in some instances, it seems as if we're running in parody with Mogadishu over in Somalia. We can do a better job. I don't think gun control is the answer because we just don't have the ability to remove people's firearms. But at the same token, the fortifications of these institutions of learning would be the focal point in terms of how we can better-protect our children in the United States.
SANCHEZ: Darrin Porcher. John Miller. Jason Pack. Appreciate the expertise. Thanks for your perspectives.
Up next. There are 19 days until the midterms, and today Michigan saw some political heavy-hitters. Vice President JD Vance. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. both in the state. Two very different messages. Our political sources join us in just moments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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SANCHEZ: 19 days until the midterm elections, and the races that will decide control of Congress are playing out almost entirely in states that Donald Trump won two years ago. The two most valuable commodities in politics, they say, are time and money. And in these critical final days before the midterms, both are focused squarely on places that traditionally have been Republican strongholds.
The President's own travel schedule illustrates how he and his party are playing defense just about all over the map.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have some great rallies. I guess a lot of you have seen them. Last night, Montana. During the day, Arizona. We went to Texas. We went to everything. We're going to Michigan, big. We're going to Iowa, big. We're going to Kansas, big. And we got a lot of them left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Two states exemplify the efforts required to pull the President's preferred candidates across the finish line.
In Texas, Republicans are set to plow another $85 million into the final weeks of the Senate race. And new FEC filings show that Elon Musk has spent more than $105 million to help Republicans in the Lone Star State, where both President Trump and JD Vance have made five in- person stops this month alone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look, Ken Paxton's a guy that, whether you like Ken or not, honestly, I mean I understand some people are controversial, et cetera. I don't happen to be a controversial person, so I'm very happy. But Ken is a little bit controversial.
So hopefully he's going to win. I'd say they pulled a pretty even now. And we had a great rally in Texas. I'll go back. If it's necessary, I'll go back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: On social media, though, the President is already blaming a possible Ken Paxton loss on John Cornyn and his quote, "Liddle' Buddy, Super RINO, Karl Rove."
Important to point out, Senator Cornyn voted with President Trump 99 percent of the time. That, clearly, not good enough for the President, who endorsed the scandal-plagued Paxton and set the stage for the tight race that we see now.
In Michigan, Mike Rogers, the Republican running for Senate, announced plans today for a seven-figure ad buy with fewer than three weeks to go. That race so tight that it drew a pair of D.C. headliners today.
Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez joined the Democrat running against Rogers, Abdul El-Sayed, for the start of a two-day swing through the state's Upper Peninsula, a traditionally red area.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): We go into a grocery store every single week. Beef is getting recalled. Chicken you can't eat. Lettuce you can't eat. Blueberries you can't eat. We can't even -- even if you can afford your groceries, you can't even know if you're going to get your kids sick or not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Also in Michigan today, the Vice President attempting to counterprogram that message with one of his own.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JD VANCE (R), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: What you have on the other side of this election is one of the craziest, one of the most far left, and one of the most radical people running for high office in the history of the United States of America.
You deserve better than a little weasel who should shut his mouth and show a little gratitude to the country that gave him everything.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: El-Sayed responded directly to those comments by the Vice President.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDUL EL-SAYED, (D) MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: You know, it's funny, he called me a -- JD Vance called me a little weasel today.
I'm like, No, no, no. What you're talking about is a (bleep) Wolverine.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
EL-SAYED: You can take your Buckeye and go shove it somewhere else.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It remains to be seen how much of an impact that sort of back and forth is going to have. But El-Sayed believes the President will play so poorly in Michigan, he's actually pleading with Trump to campaign there. It appears he may get his wish.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We want to keep our country away from this guy. Like, I call him Mohamed El-Fayed (ph). And his name is Abdul, but I think I call him Mohamed Abdul El-Sayed.
And I will tell you that I look forward to going up there to expose this fraud that's running. He's a fraud. He's a conman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: My political sources are:
Veteran Democratic strategist, Karen Finney.
Republican strategist, Melik Abdul. And CNN Chief Data Analyst, Harry Enten.
Thank you all for being with us.
Harry, you are the data guy, so let's start with you. What number matters most: the amount spent on TV ads at this point, or the fact that now fewer than 20 days out, only 18 percent of people in a new Fox poll say they're doing better financially now than they were two years ago?
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HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: The latter. The latter. I mean, it's the polling that matters most because the bottom line is this: There's already been a ton of money spent across the political map, and the best you can do is what that 18 percent saying they're better off.
I mean, Trump's numbers are absolutely garbage; they're trash. He has the highest disapproval rating of all time when it comes to inflation going into a midterm election. In fact, he has the worst inflation net approval ratings that I've ever seen for any president. We're talking going all the way back to James Earl Carter. He's the first guy ever to hit minus 50 points or worse than that on inflation.
I think, for Republicans, they are hoping, they are praying down on their knees, pretty, pretty please, with the cherry on top that all that outside money will be able to shift these races in the final few weeks of the campaign. Because, if the election were held today, the Democrats would be favored to pick up the United States Senate, and not just by a little. If you look across the political map, they could end up with 52, 53 seats if the polls were exactly right.
SANCHEZ: Wow. Melik, given that backdrop that Harry just laid out, and the conventional wisdom being that if John Cornyn had won the primary and run for re-election, then Republicans wouldn't be spending that massive amount of money in Texas. It would be a lot easier for him to win. What do you make of President Trump blaming him for Ken Paxton potentially losing that race?
MELIK ABDUL, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Did you think Donald Trump was going to blame himself?
(LAUGHTER)
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON'S 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: Fair point.
ABDUL: Of course, he's not going to do that.
Many people said at the time, when you just -- a pure analysis, not about who you'd like more. It was just a pure analysis: who would do better. And polling back then was that John Cornyn would do better, and Senator Cornyn would do better against Talarico. And so, we're seeing the result of that now. I get Donald Trump's frustration, but I think that Donald Trump is doing something good. He was criticized for going to the Syracuse area. But many people seem to forget that Donald Trump actually won the rural areas around Syracuse.
So, whether it's New York, whether it's Michigan, whether it's Texas, whether it's Florida, Donald Trump is going to go everywhere because we have seen that Donald Trump has carried the Republican Party on his back to wins. And so, as he said, I'm on the ballot this time around. And in every way, he's on the ballot. So, he's campaigning for these people, and he wants to win. So, I don't blame him for doing that.
FINNEY: Although the problem is, in a midterm election, it is very mobilizing to Democrats and, frankly, to moderate Republicans and Independents, and particularly in a state like Michigan, where the tariffs are a huge issue. I mean, add in all the other, every -- costs are too high. The tariffs, and every time he is attacking Canada, it's more of a headache for them. And there's a much more of a, particularly in the UP, a sensitivity to that. Although I think it's an interesting choice to take AOC up there.
SANCHEZ: Well, I wanted to ask you about that--
FINNEY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: --in part because, as President Trump tries to play to the base and get low-propensity voters, the folks that really only come out for him.
FINNEY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: It seems like Democrats, at least with this stop in Michigan, AOC is trying to reach over to Republicans, perhaps Independents, even as the candidate that she's stumping for by her opponent -- by his opponent, is being painted as someone who's not a moderate, not in line with--
FINNEY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: --with their values.
FINNEY: Well, let me just say, Trump and JD Vance -- we didn't even play the worst of what Vance said. It's racist. It's dog whistle. It's disgusting. And I actually, I hope that it actually turns voters off because I hope they're smart enough to say, clearly, they are going in for -- you know, for the jugular with the racist dog whistles to try to deflect from, so we're not paying attention at the pump, and we're not paying attention at the grocery store.
But with AOC, what's interesting is, I suspect that part of what they're trying to do is -- this is part of -- frankly, we did this when Hillary ran for the Senate the first time. Trump himself did this the first time he ran for president. Going to places that don't usually get those kinds of visits. Because, you will get people who show up who say, I'm just curious. I've never heard her, I've haven't heard him, I haven't seen them. Let me go see what they have to say. And the hope is you get them in the room, and then what they hear, they like what they hear, and they maybe you persuade.
But I will say we're pretty close to the point when we're talking about all this money, where, and I agree with Harry, like, the money that you're spending, you're not persuading anybody anymore. It's really about turnout at this point.
SANCHEZ: So, what do you think of AOC going to an area that Republicans historically have dominated?
ABDUL: I think it's smart politics, and as you heard from AOC herself, it seems as if she was attempting to link Donald Trump and Republicans to contaminated lettuce and beef? I don't know if that's something that's going to resonate that--
FINNEY: RFK Jr. going to--
ABDUL: Well, I don't know if that's something that's going to resonate in the area of Michigan where she is. But I think it's smart politics for anyone. I think that all politicians should go everywhere. Donald Trump, his 50-state strategy. He's tried--
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: --Howard Dean first, who I've worked for too.
(LAUGHTER)
ABDUL: Fair point. Fair point.
FINNEY: I just got to say. Best--
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes.
ABDUL: But Donald Trump, this is -- that's why you're going to see him go everywhere, and it doesn't matter how much people may criticize and say, Well, why is Donald Trump here?
SANCHEZ: Sure.
ABDUL: Because he's a winner. That's what he's trying to do.
[21:25:00]
SANCHEZ: There is -- there is an important Senate race in a state where I'm not sure candidate, the Republican candidate, would welcome Donald Trump, and Harry, that is Maine.
There was a moment during Maine Senate debate tonight, where a protester interrupted Senator Susan Collins. She's trying to sort of run toward the middle and distance herself from the President, especially on the tariffs and the war in Iran.
But listen to this protester and what he was upset about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TROY JACKSON, (D) MAINE SENATE CANDIDATE: That's one thing that I've been consistent on.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): Two issues that I--
PROTESTER: Senator Collins, I'm so sorry to interrupt...
COLLINS: I--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sorry. Somebody's interrupting. We'll have our security deal with that.
PROTESTER: AI data centers are destroying our climate. They are poisoning our waters.
COLLINS: So this is obviously one of Troy's supporters.
JACKSON: Oh, shut up. I did not -- I didn't -- I don't even know that kid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Harry, do you know that kid? I'm just kidding.
ENTEN: I know -- well, I think -- I think it was my long lost friend Ronald McDonald (ph). No.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: But this is just one example of how emotional people are in these races around the issue of data centers.
ENTEN: I mean, look, it's I think one of those issues that's almost come up out of nowhere. No one was really talking about it three, four months ago, when it came to what could ultimately be the determining factor in a lot of these races.
And what we know from the polling is that data centers are deeply unpopular. AI is considerably less popular than it was even just two years ago. And we also know that the President of the United States, Donald John Trump, is a big fan of data centers. It is, simply put, not a winning issue when it comes to these campaigns. Now, will it ultimately determine who wins and who loses?
Look, I still think inflation's at the top of the list. But all of a sudden, you start building up a mountain, right? And you go, Oh my goodness gracious, how much some of these Republican candidates have to overcome, especially someone like Susan Collins, who's running in a state that Donald Trump lost two years ago, as compared to the rest of these, mostly these swing states, in which Donald Trump, of course, not only just won, but in many of them won by double digits.
SANCHEZ: Melik, there were some new polls out from Fox today with some really interesting numbers. President Trump's approval rating, among them, it just hit a new low among Republicans. On top of that, they asked voters what the most significant issue to them was in this election, and the answer surprised me a bit. It was corruption in government.
What do you make of that? Especially as we're seeing these headlines about Kimberly Guilfoyle having to resign over these accusations, and others in the administration being accused of all kinds of malfeasance when it comes to pocketing money.
ABDUL: It's not great as we head into the midterms because, voters are going to -- whatever your issue is, whether that's on the local level or the state level, voters are going to take their frustration out on usually, and as we've seen, the party in power.
So, if you're concerned about data centers, that's actually a really big issue. And you've seen candidates, just across the -- across the country, try to adapt to that. You've seen Byron Donalds in Florida talk about certain things, even pushing back on some of the rules -- that regulations that his own lieutenant governor pick actually had with that. I think that's something that can happen.
And even with Susan Collins, when you listen to Susan Collins, and it's interesting that they were talking about when have you stood up to her -- to your party. MAGA hates Susan Collins because of the fact that she stood up to Donald Trump, whether that's on things like his on -- you know, appointments or otherwise. They've been pushing against it. But I think that she's running some smart politics in Maine, and that's why she's going to win.
SANCHEZ: Last word to Karen.
FINNEY: You know, just I would -- just remember though, the AI data centers, they actually tie into corruption because people see these big corporations getting all these tax breaks while they can't afford housing, all their costs are going up, and they're saying, Wait a second, what about taking care of the little guy, and it's making their energy costs go up.
I'm not surprised, actually, that corruption is now so high because people -- as an issue -- because people see it as the system is rigged. They see what Trump is doing, and they feel like, Well, who's looking out for me? And I think the candidates that are going to be victorious are the ones people feel are fighting for them.
SANCHEZ: Karen. Melik. Harry. Appreciate the conversation.
After the break, my next source is a Republican fighting to hold on to his seat. Does he think President Trump has helped him make his case?
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Tonight. Republicans, fighting to keep control of Congress, are facing another great challenge, as the latest government data reveals inflation rose beyond economists' expectations to 3.7 percent last month.
That number, the final snapshot of rising prices before Election Day. Gas prices accounted for more than half of that increase, with the national average now at $4.33 a gallon. Diesel prices increased to $6.32 today, far above the $3.60 (ph) average this time one year ago.
With President Trump on a midterm blitz in a series of deep red Republican states, incumbent Republican lawmakers in battleground districts, throughout the country, are fighting their own battles to protect their seats this November. One of them is my source tonight.
Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York's 17th District.
Congressman, thanks so much for sharing your evening with us.
So, the Trump administration's own data shows that overall prices had the largest increase in five months. Who should voters blame for that when they vote in 19 days?
[21:35:00]
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Look, when you are focused on economic news, you can't cherry-pick it. There are a lot of factors happening right now.
We delivered the largest tax cut in American history, putting on average over $4,000 back in the pockets of my constituents across my district.
We also passed the largest bipartisan housing bill, to pass Congress in 36 years, that became law, to increase supply, to cut red tape, to increase access to capital and ultimately start to bring down prices.
Right now, we're in the process of passing permitting reform. When we get back after the election, that will come to fruition. If you want to bring down energy prices, for instance, you need to increase supply.
So, if you look at the State of New York, where utilities are up 58 percent in six years, why is that? That has nothing to do with Washington or the Middle East. That has everything to do with Kathy Hochul and the disastrous decisions to shut down nuclear power, ban natural gas, and block pipelines. People are paying, on average, $800 for delivery charges on their utility bills in New York. Because, we're importing the energy from other states.
So, there's a number of factors with respect to prices, and we have to look at it in totality. Under Joe Biden, you saw cumulative inflation of 21 percent. That raised the baseline price of everything, OK? From whether it's groceries, healthcare, housing, energy.
We started to make some progress. Obviously, the war in the Middle East, in Iran, has created volatility in the oil markets. We want that to come to a conclusion. We want gas prices to come down. The war in Ukraine and Russia, and the attacks on diesel and energy facilities--
SANCHEZ: Yes.
LAWLER: --certainly are not helping energy prices.
So, there's a number of factors here. At the end of the day, we want prices to come down. We all recognize, that is the objective. But the only way you're going to get there, Boris, and I think one of the things that is critically important for voters to recognize, Democrats want to increase spending. We saw, under Joe Biden, $5 trillion in new spending.
SANCHEZ: Sure.
LAWLER: That's what gave us 9 percent inflation. That's what drove up interest rates because they increased spending, they increased borrowing, they increased our debt.
SANCHEZ: Sure.
LAWLER: They also want to eliminate oil and gas production in America.
SANCHEZ: If I could, Congressman--
LAWLER: They've made it very clear they want to -- I just want to end on this one point. They've made it very clear they want to bring down--
SANCHEZ: You've given us a lot--
(CROSSTALK)
LAWLER: No, I understand. But the fossil fuels is critical.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
LAWLER: You talk about gas prices, right?
SANCHEZ: Sure.
LAWLER: You focused on that at the beginning.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
LAWLER: What do you think gas prices will be if Democrats get their way and they cut oil and gas production in America? That's their stated policy goals. They want to eliminate fossil fuels. So, can somebody explain to me how exactly you're going to drive down gas prices when you want to eliminate fossil fuels?
SANCHEZ: Let's dig into some of the numbers that you brought up. When President Biden left office, his last day in office, inflation was at 3 percent. More than 20 months later, it's up to 3.7 percent. You talk about housing, mortgage rates are higher than they have been in years.
Aren't you concerned that the rising cost of energy, the rising cost of just about everything is going to offset some of the things you argue that you've done for the American people, when it comes to affordability, like cut their taxes or extend tax cuts that were already there?
LAWLER: So again, cumulative inflation under Joe Biden was 21 percent, 21 percent, which drove up the cost of everything. Inflation is still too high, I agree, and we want to bring that down. But part of the way to do that--
SANCHEZ: So--
LAWLER: --is increase domestic supply of energy, and that's why we're working on getting a permitting reform bill passed, so that we increase oil, gas, nuclear, solar, wind.
Why is it that in the State of New York, which is Democrat-controlled, prices are exponentially higher than anywhere else in the country? If they're doing such a great job in New York, shouldn't prices be lower than the national average? They're not. They're the highest in the country because of the policies under Kathy Hochul in which they eliminate production of energy in New York, in which they increase spending by over $100 billion--
SANCHEZ: Is--
LAWLER: --in six years.
SANCHEZ: Is your argument--
LAWLER: These are real problems facing my constituents.
SANCHEZ: Is your argument that gas prices and diesel prices would not -- or would remain high for your constituents were it not for the war in Iran. Because, that is the main driver of inflation right now.
[21:40:00]
That is what has people concerned, that they're paying significantly more than they were, just months before this war began, a war that the President's own Defense Intelligence Agency acknowledged, didn't have an imminent threat from Iran as a reason to start this war. In other words, that there wasn't the basis for an immediate action against Iran from the intelligence--
LAWLER: So--
SANCHEZ: --that President Trump was basing his decision on.
LAWLER: So, a few things. I said, during my comments, that obviously the war in Iran has caused volatility in the oil markets, which of course has driven up prices for gasoline.
But think about this: in New York, you're paying $800 a month on delivery charges for your utility bill, which means on top of that, you're paying $300, $400 for the actual energy costs. So, you're paying over $1,000 a month in New York on utility bills. That has nothing to do with the Middle East. That has nothing to do with Washington. That has everything to do with Albany. So yes, energy is critical. It's not just gasoline prices at the pump. It is utility costs.
Now, I want to drive all of this down, which is why I want to increase production here in America. It's also why, when you look at what happened with Venezuela and the removal of Maduro, guess what? Over a million barrels a day flowing from Venezuela to the United States of crude oil, the highest since 2017. Why? Because we eliminated Nicolas Maduro and got China out of Venezuela.
SANCHEZ: Understood.
LAWLER: And now you have cooperation on getting oil flowing. We want oil to flow and we want to--
SANCHEZ: We should point out that the United States is already the largest producer of energy on the planet.
I want to ask you about something that you mentioned previously.
LAWLER: Right, and we -- and we should -- and we should increase -- and we should increase that production even further.
SANCHEZ: I want to ask you something -- about something that you mentioned previously about Ukraine and the targeting of Russian energy infrastructure.
You co-sponsored a bipartisan Russia sanctions bill, which President Trump has now sidestepped--
LAWLER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: --to import hundreds of thousands of gallons of diesel from Russia.
Some of your colleagues on Capitol Hill are suggesting that Trump is breaking the law, a law that you helped passed, that benefits Vladimir Putin and his war machine. Do you agree with them?
LAWLER: So, I've been very clear, and I stated last week, when asked about this, I do not support any deal with Russia. I think Vladimir Putin is a vile dictator and thug. I advocated for sanctions for four years. The Biden administration should have put secondary sanctions in place immediately, upon Russia invading Ukraine. Europe should have stopped purchasing Russian gas immediately, so.
SANCHEZ: So, what is your message to the White House on this?
LAWLER: I said -- I said very clearly--
SANCHEZ: On President Trump's decision to import Russian fuel?
LAWLER: Yes, I said very clearly, I don't support the deal. I don't support any effort to do that. The sanctions should be applied. We should not be getting anything from Russia, and not one penny should be going to Russia or Vladimir Putin.
SANCHEZ: What about-- LAWLER: The sanctions regime needs to be applied.
SANCHEZ: Sure.
LAWLER: The sanctions regime needs to be applied against Russia and Iran, which is what we have been doing. Which is why the secondary blockade has been put in place to stop the flow of oil from Iran to China.
SANCHEZ: I want to ask you about Ukraine, Congressman--
LAWLER: I've been the leader in cracking down on that, and we want to make sure that stays intact.
SANCHEZ: Got it.
Reuters is reporting tonight that the order to limit Ukraine's use of Elon Musk's Starshield, which is vital for Ukraine's battlefield communications and drone operations against Russia, came from inside the White House. Two U.S. officials tell CNN, the order to limit Starshield for Ukraine did not come from President Trump himself.
I wonder what your reaction is. Is that something that is acceptable in your view?
LAWLER: No, it's not, and I think that decision should be reversed immediately.
I support Ukraine. I've been very clear on that from the very beginning. We need to do everything we can to help them keep their structural sovereignty and not allow Russia to gain any more of a foothold. But this is also why, from the very beginning, the Biden administration should have equipped them with the weapons they needed. They should have allowed them to prosecute the war in Russian territory.
Russia has gained about 20 percent of Ukraine's territory during this war. 19 percent of that land mass was accumulated during the Biden administration. About 1 percent has been accumulated during the Trump administration. Russia is losing up to 30,000 troops a month. The average lifespan of a front-line Russian soldier today is 17 minutes. 17 minutes. That's how insane this war is. It needs to come to an end. President Trump has been right about trying to get this war to come to an end.
[21:45:00]
But we need to be very clear-eyed about this. Russia, China, and Iran are the axis of evil here. They are doing everything they can to undermine stability around the globe, economic growth and prosperity, and they are doing everything they can to undermine the United States. We need to support Ukraine and it's--
SANCHEZ: It has been over 20 months -- sure.
LAWLER: Yes. SANCHEZ: It has been over 20 months, Congressman, since President Trump met with Vladimir Putin in Alaska, and he vowed that if there wasn't some kind of ceasefire in weeks, Russia would pay the price.
We're now, again, 20 months later, and he is OK-ing a deal that would effectively get around the law that you passed to punish Russia.
Congressman Mike Lawler, we'll leave the conversation there. We appreciate your time.
LAWLER: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Up next. More details on that report that the order to limit a satellite system used by Ukraine reportedly came from inside the White House. My national security and White House insiders are next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:50:00]
SANCHEZ: The breaking news tonight: Reuters reports that an order to slow down the Starshield satellite system used by Ukraine for battlefield communications and drone came from inside the White House. Reuters sources didn't specify who in the White House made the decision or who was responsible for implementing the order.
But yesterday, SpaceX CEO Elon Musk pointed his finger at Trump. Quote: "Starshield systems are owned and controlled by the US government. Any limits on speed or usage are decided by the US military and ultimately POTUS."
Tonight, two U.S. officials tell CNN that the order to limit Starshield for Ukraine did not come from the President.
My intelligence source tonight is:
Beth Sanner, former Deputy Director of National Intelligence.
Along with my White House insider, Jeff Mason, White House correspondent for Bloomberg.
Beth, what's your reaction to this reporting?
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I am not surprised, given that no one really raised their hand, over the last day or so, about who was actually responsible. So, I think that these reporters do really good reporting, and I think that it's probably true.
And, to me, this implication of this is, it's following through in a way on the threat to cut them off of intelligence, threat to cut them off from selling weapons to the Europeans to give to them, and it has just serious implications, right?
I mean, it's not -- it's one thing to say like, Oh, I'm siding with Putin, right, which is clear. But it's another thing to literally make the Ukrainian military crippled, in their capabilities, to protect themselves, to defend themselves, from the aggressor. And people on the front lines, could very well die from this.
SANCHEZ: Jeff, who but the President would send this order to the Pentagon, if it came from the White House but not directly from Trump?
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, BLOOMBERG: I can't think of anyone else. I mean, I don't know who gave the order, or, I mean, the White House denied it to Bloomberg today as well--
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MASON: --as they did to CNN.
But I think what's important to think about right now and just put it and -- and talk about is the context. And the context is the President is definitely in a tiff again, and that's not a strong enough word with Zelenskyy, and has been very critical of him in the last week or two, and blames him for the fact that energy prices aren't coming down because he feels that that Zelenskyy is not following up on what the President viewed as a deal to not attack energy resources in Russia.
By the way, Russia is also not abiding by what President Trump has considered a deal, although they did agree to a deal on diesel, which, again, to use the word, context, is coming in the context of the midterm elections and the fact that high diesel prices are really hurting President Trump politically.
So, that's the universe in which this decision was made, even if we don't know exactly the details as to who made it or why.
SANCHEZ: An energy ceasefire, we should point out that President Trump announced apparently without either nation being aware that this is something that he was going to announce.
SANNER: Right.
SANCHEZ: Beth, to add additional context, Jeff, it also comes as CNN has learned that Ukraine has run out of Patriot interceptor missiles, a critical thing to have against the Russian air attacks. There's no sign that the U.S., at this point, is going to send more, especially as Zelenskyy has been more critical than in the past of President Trump's deal with Russia for diesel and generally with President Trump.
Let's listen to what he said to the Financial Times.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: Don't involve us to some diesel deals. If you ask us to help with the situation, of course like the partners, we will help. But we're asking you -- so energy ceasefire. If not energy ceasefire, it doesn't depend on you. OK. The question: Can you give me missiles for Patriot? Because when I will not attack them because, you ask me not attack them, they will attack me. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: What do you make of, of this different approach from Zelenskyy?
SANNER: Well, I mean, first, let me just clear up a few things about this, what this diesel deal and all this means. I mean, all of this is the other part of the context, is this is intricately connected to the Iran war.
The reason that the President wanted to do the diesel deal is to distract from the implications of the war, the disastrous war, and that is the main reason for diesel prices being high. The deal with Russia will provide less than a half of 1 percent of global diesel demand, right?
And so, all of this is about distracting and moving the needle here and trying to -- trying to change the conversation. And the fact is that yes, on Patriots, we're out, and the reason we're out is because we used up 61 percent of our Patriots during the Iran war. That's a fact.
SANCHEZ: Jeff. The relationship between Trump and Zelenskyy, I mean, has fluctuated over and over again.
MASON: Certainly has.
[21:55:00]
SANCHEZ: This seems to be a repeat of what we saw in the Oval Office. When JD Vance was asking whether Zelenskyy had said thank you, whether he was appreciative enough. And President Trump was saying, You don't hold any cards, we hold all the cards. Now it seems like he and Zelenskyy are at odds again.
MASON: Yes, and it's been like a sine curve for me. It certainly started off with that dramatic meeting that you were just referencing, Boris, and then they kind of came back together a little bit, when the President ended up concluding that he wasn't getting everything he wanted from Putin either. But it's certainly been a tense one, and it's back to that point.
SANCHEZ: Jeff Mason. Beth Sanner. Thank you so much.
SANNER: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Up next. The Source Code. Tonight, 3,500. We'll be right back with the story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Tonight's Source Code is $3,500. That's how much money one notable donor gave to Republican Senator Susan Collins' re-election campaign, made public by her latest filing with the Federal Election Commission.
[22:00:00]
So, who is this donor? It may not have been a Texas-sized amount of campaign cash, but it is the maximum donation any individual can make, even for the retiree who noted his job was former President of the United States. That's right. The donation was made by President George W. Bush, whose family has deep ties to the State of Maine.
Thank you so much for joining us this evening.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts right now.
