Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Sunday Morning

Is the Coal Industry Cleaning Up Its Act?

Aired July 22, 2001 - 08:16   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BRIAN NELSON, CNN ANCHOR: Now, coal has made a comeback in recent years because of the growing energy demands in the country, but coal emits carbon dioxide, that's a major ingredient in global warming. Is the coal industry getting a bad rap or, as some suggest, is it cleaning up its act, and can it do more?

Let's learn more about this from Jack Gerard, the President of the National Mining Association on one hand, and David Hawkins, the director of the Natural Resources Defense Climate Center. They join us from Washington. And gentlemen, thank you both for being here this Sunday morning.

JACK GERARD, NATIONAL MINING ASSN.: Good morning, Brian.

DAVID HAWKINS, DIRECTOR, NATURAL RESOURCES CLIMATE CENTER: Thank you.

NELSON: As you can tell from the G-8 summit, there has been no agreement on trying to resurrect the Kyoto agreement. So we've got no agreement yet on global warming. So first of all, is that agreement fatally flawed? And let's hear from you, Mr. Gerard.

GERARD: Yes, we believe that the president has done the right thing in asking for essentially a reconsideration of how we should combat global warming in the future? The Kyoto protocol, obviously, we believe it's standard. We're quite strident, and it excluded many of the key nations, such as India and China, who could pose a significant risk in the future. So we believe the president has done the right thing. He has not said that we shouldn't deal with this challenge.

NELSON: Is it self-serving, though, for the coal industry to say this? Is it because it's going to affect coal so much that you, in particular your industry, is opposed to it?

GERARD: No, absolutely not. In fact, our industry over the last 20 to 30 years has a very positive track record in terms of our research and development into new technologies to combat further emissions.

Today, we consume about 300 percent more coal than we did say 20, 30 years ago, but at the same time, our emissions are down 30 percent. And as we look to the future, we're spending billions of dollars to develop new technologies, many of which will address the CO2 question. So we don't believe it's self-serving. In fact, we believe it's the right answer to this concern. We're addressing it in a responsible way.

NELSON: OK. Let's go over to David Hawkins now. What do you think about that, Mr. Hawkins?

HAWKINS: When we burn coal, we create lots of different pollution problems, including global warming pollution problems. The Kyoto Agreement on global warming is a good agreement. It is a follow-up on a promise that the president's father, the first President Bush, made almost 10 years ago when he signed the Rio Climate Agreement.

That agreement said that industrialized countries like the United States should take the lead in cutting global warming pollution. Now, the president -- current President Bush has walked away from that promise. We think that's a mistake. The treaty is not unfair to the United States. It will not harm the U.S. economy.

Now, the question on the coal industry's performance. They say -- if you look at the coal industry ads, they say they are increasingly clean. You know, that's like a drunk driver saying he's increasingly sober because he had four drinks yesterday and three drinks today. You got to look at their performance today. And the coal industry's performance today is simply not good enough.

Pollution from the coal industry is about five to 10 times higher today than it needs to be, if we're going to protect health and the environment.

NELSON: Can the coal industry really be expected to clean up significantly, since we rely on coal for about 50 percent of our electricity needs, where there has not been a transition, a significant transition yet to natural gas to alleviate some of that?

HAWKINS: Sure. This is not -- this is not a technical problem. It's not an economic problem. If all of America's coal plants were as clean as the cleanest of America's coal plants, we would be able to cut sulfur emissions by 95 percent from where they are today. We would be able to cut nitrogen oxide emissions by 90 percent. We have technology where we can cut mercury emissions by 90 percent. And we can make progress on CO2, on carbon dioxide, by replacing old, inefficient power plants with new, more efficient power plants.

Some of those may be fueled by coal. Others will be fueled by natural gas. Others will be fueled by renewable energy.

NELSON: So Mr. Gerard, I want to ask you, why doesn't the industry close these old plants and make a greater contribution to solving global warming?

GERARD: Brian, let me say, I appreciate all David is saying. And I would think it was persuasive argument if it were accurate. Unfortunately, what the situation is currently today is the industry spending and investing billions of dollars in new technology. David and I have a fundamental disagreement on this.

Our view of the world is, and our track records shows our emissions are down today considerably over where they were. We have made significant progress. I'm pleased today to hear David say perhaps for the first time, that he's heartened by what we're doing in the development of new technologies.

The federal government, who over the last 15 years has put about $1.7 billion in the development of clean coal technologies -- industry has matched that two for one. We have spent $3.5 billion. We have now have cutting edge technology that will get us to the goal of a zero emissions plan. We have made remarkable improvements.

NELSON: When? When would that be?

GERARD: Well, our hope is in the near future, as soon as we can. I mean, we have made significant progress over the last few years. Why? Because we've spent money and developed technologies. That's the answer.

NELSON: You know something? The Bush administration's energy plan, as it's conceived right now, as we know it, is calling for the construction of, I think, a new coal-fired power plant each week for the next 20 years, this to address the country' energy needs.

Now, certainly that is going to have an impact on the economy -- I'm sorry, on the ecology of this country.

GERARD: Well, it's going to have an impact on not only the economy and the ecology of this country, but let me tell you what else it'll to do. It'll continue to provide low cost, affordable, reliable energy to this country.

Coal today, the United States' reserve of coal is the single largest form of energy held by one nation in the world. Our coal in the United States is equal to the entire world oil reserve. And it's 1.3 times larger than the oil controlled by OPEC.

NELSON: OK.

GERARD: We think it's responsible to look at that asset that -- that resource, develop technologies to burn it cleanly. And that's what the industry thinks is the answer to my challenge.

NELSON: So Mr. Hawkins, final word to you, we've got a lot of it, so we have to use it.

HAWKINS: Let me say something about -- coal is not a low cost fuel. Coal causes tens of thousands of premature deaths every year because it's burned in a polluting fashion. It creates smog in our cities. It creates acid rain. It creates dead zones in our coastal waters. It creates haze over our national parks. Those are all costs in burning coal.

And when you add them all up, it is one of the most expensive and one of the dirtiest fuels. The industry needs to clean up its act. It needs to stop hiring lawyers and fighting us in court. It needs to work to actually clean up, start talking about the present, and looking to the future, and finding a way to make coal a 21st century fuel and not a 19th century fuel.

NELSON: All right, thank you very much. Coal at the center of the global warming. We thank you both, gentlemen, for being with us. Jack Gerard, the president of the National Mining Association.

GERARD: Thank you.

NELSON: David Hawkins from the Natural Resources Defense Climate Center. Appreciate it.

HAWKINS: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com