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CNN Sunday Morning

Residents of Vieques Will Vote on Whether to Keep Navy Exercises on the Island

Aired July 29, 2001 - 08:16   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
VINCE CELLINI, CNN ANCHOR: Residents of Vieques, Puerto Rico will have a chance to vote today on controversial U.S. military exercises on their island. The Navy has used the island off the east cost of Puerto Rico as a training ground for 60 years. Protests began when an errant bomb killed a security guard during an exercise two years ago.

Today's vote is a nonbinding referendum. A binding referendum is set for November as to whether the Navy should leave or stay, but the administration says the stay option was rendered moot by a decision to halt war games on Vieques by 2003.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE SECRETARY: The decision was largely made a year ago, when Congress passed into law the referendum proposed by President Clinton that would require the Navy to submit it's operations to a referendum next November, and if we lose we'd be out in the same time frame we announced. And frankly, no political realists that I know says we have a prayer of winning that referendum.

It was decision by the Navy to say lets get these last two years of training in an effective and less rancorous way, because we're not going to stay beyond those three anyway. The law and the referendum doomed us, not any interference from the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CELLINI: Residents hope today's nonbinding referendum will help speed the Navy's departure from the island. And with us now to discuss both sides of the issue, former Republican congresswoman from Florida, Tillie Fowler, who is in Jacksonville. And from Chicago, Illinois Democratic Congressman Luis Gutierrez. Thank you both for being with us this morning.

I'll start with you Ms. Fowler, the voter referendum. How significant would anti-Navy results be in that referendum?

TILLIE FOWLER (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, this is not a legally binding referendum, and it is unfortunate that two yeas ago the Clinton administration took us down the path of making military decisions by political referendum. This is not the way you make decisions about providing for a strong national defense for the United States.

So, I'm very disappointed that Governor Calderon called this referendum for today. I certainly don't think we need the referendum in November. There are 33 live fire sites within the United States today, in which our citizens have bombings going a mile away from them, three miles away from them. Vieques is nine miles away, the citizens there. This is not something that is not occurring throughout our country, because it's important that we provide the proper training for our young men and women before we send them into harm's way.

I'm very disappointed that there are people within the Puerto Rican government that do not want their government to participate in providing for a strong national defense. And I am hopeful that the pro-Navy people on Vieques today will show up and cast their vote and show that they do support participating in this event.

CELLINI: Well, Congressman Gutierrez, it seems that early estimates are residents there are opposed to the Navy exercises. Do you see the referendum vote going that way?

REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: I think that today we're going to see that the people of Vieques are going to participate in an electoral process, an electoral process which they have the right to conduct under their own laws.

I think we're going to see that people want peace in Vieques. This is not an anti-Navy, anti-military, anti-American exercise. This is an exercise of the people saying we want our human rights protected, we want our human rights respected. And today they're going to cast a ballot, and I think we should respect those ballots. I think those ballots are very, very important and our government should respond to the will of the people.

CELLINI: But, congressman...

GUTIERREZ: There is no other bombing site like Vieques anywhere in the United States.

CELLINI: But congressman, wouldn't an anti-Navy vote at least be perceived as anti-U.S.? At least on a perception level.

GUTIERREZ: You know something? I think you can, you see the protests of the 60's, you see them of the 70's and of the 80's. There is no Yankee go home sentiment here. If, in Illinois, people pick up banners to say that they want their neighborhoods safe from contamination and pollution and ecological disaster -- if they do it in Florida. If they do it in Texas, if they do it anywhere in the United States, that's a very pro-American way of conducting oneself, of raising oneself. That's why we have first amendment rights.

CELLINI: Ms. Fowler, it seems like this has been an important training site now for over 50 years; around 60 years. What makes it so unique? Why is it so special, the Vieques Island?

FOWLER: Because it is the only site where we can do amphibious landings, aerial bombing and firing from the sea simultaneously, and that's what occurs in real life war-like situations sometimes, and it's the only place where our Atlantic fleet can do that type of training.

So, once we lose it, we have lost that ability to train in that manner. And I have been to some of the other alternative sites. They are not suitable. They do not work. The U.S. government has owned this property since the 40's. It is owned by the U.S. government. We have spent billions of dollars making it into a type of facility that can be used well for our Navy, and it would be absolutely terrible if we lose this. I hope that we do not. I hope people on Vieques will help us and support us.

And I have to point out, you know, Puerto Rico is a territory of about four million people. The United States government sends about $14 billion a year in federal aid down to Puerto Rico, and I would hope that the people there would want to continue that good relationship, and not send an anti-American, anti-defense message by these votes that they're going to be casting.

CELLINI: Well -- excuse me. Excuse me to interrupt. But Congressman Gutierrez, would you agree that the Navy has been a good neighbor, at least economically?

GUTIERREZ: The Navy has been a terrible neighbor economically. I don't know what former congresswoman is talking about, the billions of dollars. You can go down to Vieques today. Where are these billions of dollars in infrastructure and investment? They've spent billions of dollars bombing and destroying Vieques and contaminating that island.

And there was a commitment, and I don't know what she's talking about, Clinton taking us down this path? President Bush has said that the people of Vieques are in harm's way, and therefore he is taking actions to end the bombings in the year 2003. Our point...

FOWLER: He has not -- he has not said...

GUTIERREZ: Now, let me finish. I did not interrupt you. Let me finish.

FOWLER: OK.

GUTIERREZ: And President Bush has continued to follow the policy of saying we're ending the bombing in Vieques, because the people are in harm's way.

You know, I don't quite understand how we have a military that is supposed to be here to defend Americans, to defend us -- which clearly, two commander-in-chiefs, Clinton and Bush, have clearly articulated the people are in harm's way. We should not allow another day for the people to be in harm's way. We wouldn't tolerate this in Florida. We wouldn't tolerate it in Illinois...

CELLINI: Go ahead. Congressman -- I'd like the congresswoman to respond to this. GUTIERREZ: ... As a matter of fact, we don't tolerate it anywhere else in the United States.

CELLINI: We have limited time. I'd like the congresswoman to respond to this.

FOWLER: First, we have two live fire bombing sites in my state of Florida, which we support...

GUTIERREZ: Not like the kind they have in Vieques. You know they do not...

(CROSSTALK)

FOWLER: I did not interrupt you. I did interrupt you...

GUTIERREZ: ... use uranium's there, contaminated, cancer-causing explosives in your district...

FOWLER: We have people living only three miles from the bombing site in Florida.

GUTIERREZ: ... or anywhere in Florida. You know that...

FOWLER: President Bush did not say...

CELLINI: I'm going to have to interrupt.

FOWLER: ... that people were being put in harm's way.

GUTIERREZ: That's absolutely not true.

CELLINI: Excuse me. I'm going to have to interrupt now.

FOWLER: He did not say that and he inherited a terrible situation.

GUTIERREZ: Absolutely not true.

CELLINI: Pardon me, Ms. Fowler.

FOWLER: I do hope that the people...

CELLINI: Congressman Gutierrez...

FOWLER: ... of Vieques will not vote negatively today. Thank you.

CELLINI: I hate to step over you here, but ultimately, bigger picture. What about future relations for the U.S. in Puerto Rico...

FOWLER: I think this would be very damaging. I think we...

(CROSSTALK)

FOWLER: Luis, do you mind if I finish... CELLINI: One at a time, please. Ms. Fowler, go ahead, you started your comments.

FOWLER: Thank you, I appreciate you showing me that courtesy. I think this will be very damaging to our relations. There are members in the Congress that I think will be moving towards closing the Roosevelt Roads Naval Station. Certainly not considering reinstating the tax credits that were killed back in '95 for companies in Puerto Rico...

GUTIERREZ: Which the Republicans killed.

FOWLER: This can be very economically damaging for Puerto Rico...

CELLINI: All right, I have...

FOWLER: ... and for our relationships.

CELLINI: Thank you. Congressman Gutierrez?

GUTIERREZ: Well, I think that if Tillie Fowler and others want to play the role of the ugly American, that's unfortunate. People are being devastated by the ecological contamination, cancer, the children. I just hope we would show the same concern, because as Tillie Fowler forgets to mention to everybody, people do get drafted in Puerto Rico.

FOWLER: Right, they do.

GUTIERREZ: Puerto Ricans have served in the military, and let me just say, have served in the military in excellence in all the different facets of our military. We continue to serve in the military of the United States. What we are simply saying is that we want the people protected and we want their interests respected.

CELLINI: All right, thank you. We'll have to have the last word right there. Congressman Gutierrez, Congresswoman Fowler, thank you so much. And we'll keep a close eye on this vote.

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