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CNN Sunday Morning

Rumsfeld Arrives in Moscow to Talk About Missile Defense

Aired August 12, 2001 - 08:13   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has arrived in Moscow for talks with Russian leaders on missile defense and nuclear arsenals.

CNN's David Ensor is also in Moscow now, with the latest on what's expected in those talks. Hi, David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra. Secretary Rumsfeld told reporters he's here to discuss a new kind of strategic relationship that President Bush would like to have with Russia.

On arrival here, he went to review an Honor Guard at a park commemorating the Russian victory in World War II.

U.S. officials have made clear to the Russians, though, that the U.S. is in something of a hurry to move ahead towards testing of an antiballistic missile system, which would violate the ABM treaty, the Antiballistic Missile Treaty of 1972 between Moscow and Washington, and Russian officials are obviously not pleased by that, but they are saying that modernization of the treaty is something that can and will be discussed today and tomorrow here in Moscow.

However, Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov also said in an interview that the Russians see that treaty as the cornerstone of strategic stability and that if the U.S. wants to have the kind of deep cuts in nuclear weapons that it has been talking about, then it should not go ahead with the kind of missile defense program it has been proposing -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, with another perspective on what might come out of this visit, we turn to former State Department official Tobi Gati in Washington and, again, we're going to keep David Ensor with us from Moscow and have a discussion on what's in store with Mr. Rumsfeld. Tobi, thanks for being with us.

TOBI GATI, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: My pleasure.

PHILLIPS: David is mentioning missile defense. On that subject, conversations with Russia have basically been about that. But does this meeting need to go outside of the box and address other issues, not just missile defense?

GATI: Well, the discussions will first have to focus on what is missile defense. The Russians, I don't think, got a clear sense when they were in Washington talking to American officials about exactly what system we intend to build. I don't think they have a clear sense about the number of offensive weapons we'd be willing to cut. So, they are in a listening mode.

But I think eventually, it will be impossible to convince the Russians that getting out of the ABM treaty is a good idea. It may be possible to convince them that it's inevitable and to convince them that they ought to get something for it, some price, on NATO enlargement, for example. Maybe go slow, you could even go outside the box and say a better economic relationship or even something as far out as debt rescheduling.

PHILLIPS: You mention economic relationship. It is a hard time for Russia right now, economically. Can anything really, truly be negotiated with an economy the way it is right now in Russia?

GATI: Well, Russia has started to make the changes that are required to encourage investment, but governments, especially the U.S. government, cannot make companies invest in Russia, obviously.

Secretary Evans, Commerce Secretary, and Secretary of the Treasury O'Neill were in Russia and made a good start, in whatever you can do in two days of discussions, to encourage business to take another look at Russia.

But what Russia really will have to do over the long-term is get it's house in order and the issue that does concern us and the Germans is debt rescheduling.

PHILLIPS: Tobi, we're going to bring in our David Ensor from Moscow. David, I know you had some questions to address with Tobi.

ENSOR: I'm just wondering, Tobi, what you think, whether it is realistic, perhaps, as some have proposed, that the U.S. might offer to have the Russians involved somehow, technologically, working on the radar systems or whatever, for some kind of a missile defense. Get them in. Would that perhaps be something that the U.S. could offer that might cause the Russians to feel differently about missile defense?

GATI: I think there are some things the U.S., of course, can offer. But while we're talking about going beyond the Cold War relationship, which is possible and I hope can be realized over time, the Russians are quite aware that the people they're talking to want to get out of treaties which, for them, are the cornerstone of stability, and many of them are the same people who were in administrations during the Cold War.

So, I think it's possible to move beyond, but let's remember the President Reagan also offered to share Star Wars technology and that didn't go very far, and those of us who know something about technology sharing, even with allies, know how difficult it is for Americans to give out what really are the crown jewels of our technology to countries that are friends, much less those that are to put it in its best terms potential friends.

PHILLIPS: Former State Department official Tobi Gati and...

ENSOR: So, military cooperation with Russia may be a ways off? Thank you, Kyra, sorry.

GATI: I think we'll have some military cooperation.

PHILLIPS: Well said. We had a little bit of a delay there, but we got that last point in. David Ensor, thank you so much. And Tobi, thanks again.

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