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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Marc Gopin

Aired October 14, 2001 - 09:44   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: War and religion; the United States is trying to keep them separated in Afghanistan, but as we've seen the effort is having mixed results.

Marc Gopin is well versed on war and religion, and his latest book "Holy War, Holy Peace" will soon be out. He joins us now from our Boston bureau.

Good morning. Welcome to you. Thanks for being with us this Sunday morning.

MARC GOPIN, TUFTS UNIVERSITY: Thank you very much. Good morning.

SAVIDGE: Let me ask you. This war -- give us the difference between what we are finding today versus, say, World War II.

GOPIN: Well, actually there are some similarities in the sense that we have a broad base of rage in the world by a very large group of people, and those who are willing and very prepared to take advantage of that rage to gain a great deal of power. The difference is that in this case it is an extremist group of religious clerics who are capitalizing on that generalized rage to create havoc and to try to control the public space. But not that different than the fascist ideologies that wanted to control the public space as well.

SAVIDGE: The United States as we said at the beginning here goes out of its way to maintain that Islam is not a target here. How does that thinking go over in the Middle East? Is it believed? And is that the right way to go?

GOPIN: Well, I don't think -- I think it's not generally believed by the masses. I think that there's a very large group of Muslims across the world and in the Middle East who are cowering in their living rooms, just as much as many of us are from extremists Islam. They are Muslims too. They are religious Muslims, and they are terrified of this.

But there is a broad base of suspicion of United States' behavior as well. So I think that the line is the right one. It's true. It is an effort to distinguish between terrorism and legitimate Islam, which is what most people observe. But at the same time it may not necessarily be heard by those who have been captured and captivated by extremists clerics. SAVIDGE: We obviously see the role of religion overseas, but religion -- and I'm talking from a war footing sense -- has a very strong role here in the United States. But how are they different? Obviously not as fanatical, but still it's a very powerful motivator for many Americans.

GOPIN: We have a huge amount of people in the United States who go to religious services on a regular basis. The major difference at this point in history is that the vast majority of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and others in this country have come to the conclusion that there is no space for force and violence in the persuasion of others to be of a different faith. There is an evangelical trend within Christianity and Islam that everyone should convert at some point or see the truth of their revelation. But there is a broad base of support at this point and time in the United States that doing that by force is completely unacceptable.

Now, traditionally Islam has -- Islamic leaders have maintained that line that there should be no force in religion. Unfortunately, history is replete with both of these monotheistic traditions engaging in force in the right political and economic circumstances. And that's the kind of struggle with -- for the soul of Islam that we have to engage now and help liberal Muslims around the world to have a stronger voice, clerics that speak what they believe, because this is really a war for the soul, for the interpretation of Islamic text and traditions and stories.

SAVIDGE: Well, we've already outlined what the end of the war will be, or hopefully be, with the military victory. What will it mean for religion, both Christianity and Islam?

GOPIN: Well, you're assuming that there's going to be a victory. I hope there will be. I think that this is a broad question of the future of civilization at this point. The dangers are very, very real.

And the question is going to be whether we can create a consensus of world religions on the limitations upon their use of force to persuade others or to achieve their goals. And that's something that we need a much, much deeper discussion between the world religions and between the masses, not just the elites.

And I think what could come out of this -- every conflict is also an opportunity -- what could come out of this is a much, much more concerted effort on the part of the world of Islam to establish for itself global Islamic leaders who are deeply committed to civil society, democracy and human rights and the -- and nonviolence as -- in terms of religious traditions.

There are many Muslims who believe in nonviolence, but they are at the mercy in many of these countries of extremist clerics who are trying to grab power perhaps for the last time away from modern society, away from capitalist society.

SAVIDGE: Well at the very least this is all proving to be an education for many Americans into Islam, something that they perhaps did not understand at all.

Marc Gopin, thank you very much for joining us this morning. And the book that he has..

MARC GOPIN, AUTHOR OF "HOLY WAR, HOLY PEACE": You're welcome.

SAVIDGE: ... that will be coming out: "Holy War, Holy Peace." Again, thank you for joining us.

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