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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Omar Samad

Aired October 14, 2001 - 09:14   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DONNA KELLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Afghanistan did not get top attention from the United States just a month ago. And now, it's become the primary focus in the war on terrorism.

Omar Samad is with the Afghanistan Information Center in Washington and he joins us to give us a little more information about Afghanistan and its people.

Hi, Omar. I'm glad you could come and talk with us.

OMAR SAMAD, AFGHANISTAN INFORMATION CENTER: Good morning, Donna.

KELLEY: There are -- there are people in tribes and groups in Afghanistan and we think it will helpful if you will help us understand those groups a bit. Let's start with the largest and I believe that's the Pashtun.

SAMAD: Yes, well, the Pashtuns make up the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan. They're mostly in the eastern, southern parts of the country. There are pockets of Pashtuns in the north also, and around Kabul.

According to estimates from their sources, including the CIA pack (ph) books, there are about 40 percent -- they constitute about 40 percent of the population.

KELLEY: And the Taliban is a lot of Pashtun, aren't they?

SAMAD: Exactly. The Taliban are predominately Pashtun; but that doesn't mean that all the Pashtuns are Taliban.

You know, you need to take into consideration the fact that there hasn't been a national census for population in Afghanistan over the past 20, 30 years. So nobody really knows accurately what the demographic situation is in Afghanistan.

KELLEY: Now, let's take a look a peak at this map that we've put together. We had the Pashtuns -- that we did in red. So you can kind of follow that around and too, some pockets up and around Afghanistan here. Then, even though that is the largest group of all, then second, is the Tajiks and they're the largest ethnic group, is that?

SAMAD: Well, they are the second largest ethnic group after the Pashtuns. The Tajik Afghans are mostly around Kabul in the north, northeast. And there are some Tajiks in the western part of Afghanistan and they are mostly Dari or Farsi speakers. The Pashtuns, on the other hand, are Pashtun speakers.

but I have to tell you that, as an Afghan, you know, they all represent ethnic groups that, I think that, if you ask any of them what their nationality is, they would probably tell you that they are Afghan first and then they belong to this or that tribe or this or that ethnic group.

KELLEY: And the opposition leader, Massoud who headed the Northern Alliance, who was assassinated, what was he?

SAMAD: Massoud was a Tajik from the Panchar (ph) area. But he, I believe, never saw himself as first a Tajik. He saw himself as an Afghan and he was a patriotic type of person who thought more or less about Afghanistan's independence and fought against the Soviets on one hand and then later on, in the squabbles that pursued in the 1990s against intrigues that existed between Pakistan and Iran. So he was a Tajik but Afghan first.

KELLEY: And then Uzbeks are third and then fourth, Hezaras. Let's take a look at the map as well. And this is a little bit difficult to see. So let me just go ahead and outline this for you. This is Uzbek right here and then Hezaras. Tell us a little bit more about those two groups as well.

SAMAD: The Uzbek Afghans are mostly in northern part of Afghanistan and some in the northwest as well as the Turkmens who are closely related to the Uzbeks.

And the Hezaras who predominately are Shiite Afghans, following the Shiite denomination, are in the central parts of Afghanistan, again, also a strong presence in Kabul.

KELLEY: OK, let's look at this too. And this is Hazara.

SAMAD: Yes.

KELLEY: All right, now importantly here, what you can help us with too, how do these groups get along?

SAMAD: You know, Donna, I think that prior to the 1978-'79 Soviet invasion, Afghans all got along pretty well. There's a lot of intermingling between Afghans and also today's ethnic based politics is something that Afghans are very weary about.

When people or countries such as Pakistan talk about, for example, this ethnic group has 50 or 60 percent in contrast to another group. I think Afghans become very concerned because they would like to see national unity as a major goal to achieve in the next weeks and months to come.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLEY: And how -- is there -- is there somebody who can achieve that or somebody who can come into power because it's my understanding when the Taliban was trying to come to power, they killed each other in these groups by the tens of thousands. So now, a Northern Alliance as the main opposition group trying to come in a post-Taliban government, who comes in to try and unify everybody then and to try and put Afghanistan back together?

SAMAD: Very good question. I think that most Afghans including the United Front -- the Northern Alliance as well as the Pashtun groups that are scattered around, they all would like to see a united -- unified Afghanistan. And I think that, as far as individuals concerned, the former king of Afghanistan, Zahir Shah, who's in Rome, is working pretty hard to bring about such a unified Afghanistan.

KELLEY: And would he be a figurehead and can he bring these groups together?

SAMAD: I believe that -- aside from the fact that a monarchy is a question that would have to be dealt with later on, that he can be a figurehead. But you have to remember that there are other contenders and other leaders in Afghanistan who also have accepted his role and have to play their role in order to bring about such a united Afghanistan.

KELLEY: What's the Northern Alliance made mostly of? What ethnic group?

SAMAD: The Northern Alliance actually is composed mostly of Tajiks, Uzbeks, Hazaras and other smaller minorities. But something that has been missing in the media is that the Northern Alliance also has a pretty strong Pashtun component. And the Northern Alliance being on the ground, allows it to be in direct contact with Pashtuns who are dissatisfied with the Taliban and the terrorists.

KELLEY: Ah, what percentage is that because we were talking about the Taliban, mostly Pashtun and if they're dissatisfied with the Taliban -- do you have any idea what makeup that is?

SAMAD: Very difficult. It is developing as we are speaking. I would say that a large number of Afghan Pashtuns who are independent minded are not with the Taliban and they are looking for every or any way possible to get out of that strangle hold and get together with other Afghans to form a national, unified government.

KELLEY: All right, great to have you with us. Omar Samad, who's with Afghanistan Information Center.

SAMAD: Thank you.

KELLEY: Thank you very much.

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