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CNN Sunday Morning

Bin Laden Reportedly Claims Possession of Nuclear, Chemical Weapons

Aired November 11, 2001 - 08:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN ANCHOR: Now an update on the story we first reported yesterday. A purported interview with Osama bin Laden, in which the terrorist leader boasts of nuclear and chemical arsenals. And, according to the interviews, bin Laden says both weapons of mass destruction could be unleashed on the United States.

CNN's Nic Robertson has been investigating the reports from Islamabad, where he joins us with his findings.

Nic, what have you discovered?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jeanne, one of the first things we wanted to do at CNN was try and verify whether the accounts of this interview between the journalist Hamid Mir and Osama bin Laden were correct, and it took about 24 hours to do that.

We went to Mr. Mir's house, and there he showed us photographs of his meeting that he said that were of his meeting with Osama bin Laden in the last few days. He showed us the negatives of those photographs. He showed us the stamps -- the visa stamps -- in his passports, authenticating his trip from Pakistan to Afghanistan on the dates he said he was there. And he also played for us an audio tape of the interview that he said was of the interview with -- between him and Osama bin Laden. He said that interview was translated by Osama bin Laden's deputy, Dr. Ayman Al-Zawahiri.

Now, Mr. Mir said that to get to this interview he contracted some old military commanders who he knew in Afghanistan who put him in touch with Osama bin Laden before. They smuggled him through the night, a five-hour drive. At times he said he was wrapped in a carpet in the back of a jeep, and at times blindfolded. He said he was taken to what he though was a mud hut somewhere north of Kabul, and that's where he met Osama bin Laden.

He spent about 90 minutes interviewing him. He asked him about his nuclear weapons, and Osama bin Laden told him that those weapons -- he said, and stressed -- would only be used as a deterrent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMID MIR, PAKISTANI JOURNALIST: He was very brief. He said that if the United States of America is going to use chemical or nuclear weapons against us, then we reserve the right to respond back. And he used the word "deterrent." He said, we have that deterrent. And he said that we will not use this -- these kind of weapons first. So this is -- these weapons are just for defense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Now, Mr. Mir says that he doubts Osama bin Laden has the nuclear weapon capability. Also, terrorism analysts say they doubt it as well. They say although Osama bin Laden has been trying to procure weapons-grade nuclear-type material in the past, they doubt that he has had the technical expertise to put that in a weaponized form.

They do say, however, that it is possible that he does have some kind of chemical, and possibly biological, capability. Although, again, on a limited military-delivery type system.

Now, Mir said that he asked Osama bin Laden whether or not he'd been involved in the 11th of September attacks. Bin Laden denied that. He said that the United States had no evidence against him. Mir said the headline for him out of the meeting, out of the interview, was that Osama bin Laden appeared to have taken a U-turn on the issue of attacking American citizens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIR: He took a U-turn on the issue of the killing of Americans. Previously he was saying -- or he was quoted in different interviews that he said that, "I am against all the Americans." But this time he said, I am not against all the American people, I am only against the American policies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Now, again, this statement from Osama bin Laden surprising terrorism analysts. They say that bin Laden, in the past, has only ratcheted up his rhetoric against American citizens, lumping them in as legitimate targets since 1998, along with American military personnel and American government officials. So this, again, is a surprise for those who study and watch Osama bin Laden's statements.

Now, Mir said that he believes that Osama bin Laden is going to, as he said, in the coming -- in the near future, that is, try and get his message out to more journalists, possibly even holding a press conference -- Jeanne.

MESERVE: Nic, any insight from this as to where Osama bin Laden may be?

ROBERTSON: Well, Mir said that he believed that he was taken north of the capital, Kabul. That he was in the east Jalalabad; that he was told to go to Kabul. He spent a day in Kabul. Overnight he said he was driven what he thought was about five hours away from the capital.

Now he says he believes he was taken north for two reasons. One, he says that it was colder. And the other, that he believed that he was higher up in the mountains. And the mountains do get much higher north of Kabul. He said it was very, very cold. We listened to the audio tape, there were people coughing on the audio tape of the interview. I asked Mir who was coughing; he said, everyone was coughing, it was so cold.

So Mir believes that it was somewhere north of Kabul in the mountains. But he says, as he was blindfolded and sometimes wrapped up in a carpet on the back seat of a car, he was not really able to get a really accurate assessment of where he was taken, but that was his best guess -- Jeanne.

MESERVE: Nic Robertson in Islamabad, thank you -- Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Let's continue our rounds and check in now with CNN's Kathleen Koch. She joins us this morning with a U.S. military perspective at the Pentagon -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Martin, the interview and those claims by Osama bin Laden come at the same time as the "New York Times," in a report, says that the United States military has its eye on three sites in Afghanistan -- that it has its eye on, but has chosen not to bomb. That it believes that Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda network may be using to try to produce chemical or biological weapons.

Now, those sites being a small research lab east of Jalalabad; also an anthrax vaccine plant in Kabul; and, finally, a fertilizer plant in Mazar-e Sharif. The Pentagon is not commenting on the "New York Times" report. It says it is, however, looking into it.

Obviously, bombing any sort of biological or chemical weapons production facility is very problematic during any conflict. First of all, if the plant is actually producing one of these materials, you run the risk of releasing into the environment toxins that could kill innocent civilians, opposition forces, or even threaten your own troops.

As a matter of fact, during the Persian Gulf War there was great concern that U.S. bombs may have struck Iraqi biological or chemical weapons facilities, releasing those toxins into the environment and perhaps being responsible for the illness widespread among some U.S. soldiers known as the Gulf War Syndrome.

Of course, then there is the risk of bombing a facility, yet not producing any of these items, and then being accused of bombing an innocent civilian facility.

And finally, then, if you bomb one of these production facilities -- bomb it basically to rubble -- then it becomes very, very difficult to go in later and determine what was actually being produced.

As far as the -- which of these sides the U.S. may have the potential access to first, they're looking at the fertilizer factory in Mazar-e Sharif. At this point, we do not know whether or not that is under the control of the opposition forces or still the control of the Taliban. But clearly, once the Northern Alliance gets its hands on that facility, the United States will be very interested in getting a peek inside -- Martin.

SAVIDGE: Kathleen, what is the reaction of the Pentagon to these advances by the Northern Alliance?

KOCH: The Pentagon is -- obviously, can't confirm these advances. It has, however, expressed its own concern, as a matter of fact, on Friday, about the Northern Alliance opposition forces being able to hold even the city of Mazar-e Sharif itself for very long. The opposition forces there had been outnumbered two-to-one by the Taliban.

Now, of course, in light of it taking that -- the Northern Alliance taking that city, it would make sense for it to proceed both south and east toward Kabul. However, with the Taliban forces entrenched -- deeply entrenched outside of Kabul, protecting that city and still far outnumbering the northern opposition forces, and with the U.S. now saying, we would prefer it not to go in, it's expected that their tactics will again continue to focus outside the city -- Martin.

SAVIDGE: Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon. Thank you.

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