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CNN Sunday Morning

Bin Laden Believed to be in Tora Bora

Aired November 25, 2001 - 10:48   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: We have been talking a lot about the apparent Taliban surrender in Konduz this morning. But elsewhere in Afghanistan, U.S. forces are still hunting for Osama bin Laden.

CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Major General Don Shepperd, is back with us.

General, we have some information this weekend that bin Laden could be hiding out in an area that is called Tora Bora. Where is it, and what is it?

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Tora Bora, not Bora Bora, and certainly not a vacation spot.

It's an area of complex caves, well-known, about 35-to-40 miles southwest of Jalalabad over and behind an area called the White Mountains. About a four-to-five-hour drive from Jalalabad.

It's a very remote area, and was used by the mujahideen in the battle against the Soviets. Reportedly, some of the most sophisticated caves in the area. And reportedly also inhabited now, if it's true, by about 1,200 Arab fighters, as many as 500 or 600 al Qaeda, Taliban, if you will.

Now, the reason it makes this likely is it is remote. It has been used by bin Laden before. But you have to sort out real intelligence from rumor and fact and fiction and the legend that grew up over these. That's the tough part right now, Martin, is finding out where is he really, and then going to look for him.

SAVIDGE: Well the "New York Times" has a quote that I think I want you to see. And it says, quote: "We have some people who told us that three or four days ago Osama bin Laden was in Tora Bora. I trust them like my mother or father." And that was Hazarat Ali, the law and order minister in Eastern Shura.

Does that indicate to you that there could be some verification that, indeed, Osama bin Laden is there?

SHEPPERD: Well, again, it's a likely place for him.

I simply don't know. And I'm sure we're looking there and in other places. But remember, what you're looking for, you're going to train your sensors, and you're gong to train your intelligence on likely areas where he's been seen before and where there are complex facilities to support him.

He has got to be surrounded by a large number of people. He's got to have vehicles. He's got to talk. He's got to eat and be resupplied. And so you're looking for all of these from your sensors. And then you fuse all of these sensors with computers and this type of thing, and with human intelligence and you say, OK, we think this is where he is. And now you plan an operation to go in that area to dig him out.

That's the most likely way you go about this, Martin.

SAVIDGE: It also seemed to be relatively close to the border of Pakistan. Is that a problem? Could it be in an area where he can escape to?

SHEPPERD: Well, if I were bin Laden, I would hole myself up in an area where I had several opportunities for escape. And undoubtedly he has plans to defend himself. He also has plans to escape. He also has plans in the end to blow himself up and not be taken prisoner, is most likely.

So I think a proximity to Pakistan and other escape routes is a likely thing that's going on in bin Laden's mind right now.

SAVIDGE: And what do you expect, is he on the move every night, every day, or is he just sort holed up in one of these caves?

SHEPPERD: I think he's holed up. I think it's -- he has much less flexibility to move. And again now, as you controlled more and more of the area with the Northern Alliance and now the Taliban defecting forces, if you will, his ability to move without detection gets smaller and smaller. He attracts attention wherever he goes.

So I suspect he's holed up now in an area. Now, he may move within the area a few miles, this type thing; but my guess is, his ability to move as he's done before is much restricted.

SAVIDGE: And now with the reported fall of Konduz, do you think that the focus is going to become much more critical in the next few days for bin Laden and his search?

SHEPPERD: I think we're going to search for bin Laden. We're going to focus on wiping up Konduz, taking and securing the rest or the areas that the Northern Alliance has captured. We're going to focus on Kandahar. And it will all be done simultaneously. There's no stopping and moving from one phase to the other.

It's a holistic approach, if you will, to securing -- kicking out the Taliban, getting the al Qaeda, and finding bin Laden and his al Qaeda cells all at the same time.

SAVIDGE: Major General Don Shepperd, thanks very much. We'll be in touch.

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