Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Oren Behr, David Leopold

Aired December 09, 2001 - 08:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN ANCHOR: Following the September attacks, the Bush Administration has come under intense scrutiny concerning the detainment of hundreds of people. Viet Dihn, Assistant U.S. Attorney General, defended the policies in an interview on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIET DIHN, ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Every single one of the persons whom we have detained is detained either on an immigration violation, a criminal violation, or pursuant to a warrant issued by a judge. So there is no one in custody who is not, does not have an individualized predicate for a criminal violation or an immigration violation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MESERVE: There also seems to be another link between detainees after 9/11. Nearly all are from the Middle East. One of our guests this morning, Oren Behr is an Israel student. He was detained by the FBI along with 10 others in October, and just released last week by a U.S. Immigration judge. His lawyer, David Leopold also joins us. David is in Cleveland, Ohio this morning. Thank you both for joining us.

Oren, let me start with you. What were you doing when you were picked up?

OREN BEHR, DETAINED ISRAELI STUDENT: What was I doing when I was picked up? I was in Lima. I came to see my friends that were also picked up. I knew afterward they were picked up on the same morning, so I just came to see what's happening with them.

MESERVE: Mr. Leopold, were they doing anything illegal?

DAVID LEOPOLD, LAWYER FOR 11 DETAINEES: Well Jeanne, the government alleges that they were working without authorization. It's a technical, a very technical visa violation. Was it illegal, against the law? Absolutely not. Was it possibly a violation of their tourist visas? Yes, but it's nothing that this country would throw people in jail and lock them up for before.

MESERVE: You were taken to jail, Oren, weren't you?

BEHR: I was taken to jail. MESERVE: Were you given any explanation for why you were there?

BEHR: No, nothing. When I came first to the immigration, they told me that I don't need even a lawyer, because it will take maybe a day or two and it's nothing very special. And then, like after the investigation, we were taken to Medina County jail. We were sitting almost for 30 days. Nobody explained ever what we've done. We didn't -- nobody talked with us. Even my lawyer couldn't explained what happened.

MESERVE: But you did eventually find a lawyer. You were able to make a call.

BEHR: After about two weeks, we find David Leopold, but first of all we didn't know exactly what is our situation. So we didn't thought we need a lawyer, and this is what they advised to us in the beginning.

LEOPOLD: You see, Jeanne.

MESERVE: Go ahead, Mr. Leopold.

LEOPOLD: That's part of the problem. You know, the INS Law requires that the INS or whoever's holding these people tell them that they have the right to an attorney; in fact, give them a list of the attorneys.

My clients, all eleven of them who were held in custody without bond for some unexplained reason, were all told, you know "you don't need a lawyer. This is going to pass over quickly." That violates INS Law and that also violates the spirit, the spirit of this country where everybody should have the right to an attorney, no matter how they find themselves behind bars.

MESERVE: Mr. Leopold, were you ever given or were your clients ever given a full explanation for why they were being held?

LEOPOLD: You know, Jeanne, I read this morning in the paper that there's all this talk of secret evidence and bringing back secret evidence, and I think it needs to be understood that secret evidence and the lack of telling counsel and telling detainees why they're being held is happening right now.

So, in answer to your question, no. To this day I have no idea why eleven young Israeli kids, early 20's were held under the orders of the FBI, the Justice Department, and why Mr. Behr and my other client, Mr. Hani (ph), who both remain in the United States albeit free, and we're happy for that, are here on what they call an Order of Safeguard.

That's a term that I've never heard before, and a term that I can't find any legal precedent for.

MESERVE: What does it mean, that he can't leave the country?

LEOPOLD: Yes, it means that while he can stand outside a prison, which is welcome don't get me wrong, he can't go home, and they very much want to go home. They aren't giving him back his passport, and they're requiring him to stay here and they're both running out of money. We have one of the detainees actually living in our house.

MESERVE: Oren, you want to go home. Does this all leave a rather bitter taste in your mouth about America?

BEHR: A little bit disappointed, because I'm ready to get home and my family is waiting at home. My friends are waiting. I finished my medical (inaudible) in the United States, and I'm a little bit disappointed.

MESERVE: Is there anything in their background that might explain this? Is there any sort of criminal history or activity that you've ever been engaged in, anything like that?

BEHR: No, never. I haven't been...

LEOPOLD: Jeanne, I'd like to point out if I might with respect to all of them and with respect to Oren. They were all in the country legally. They all had valid passports. They all had valid visas. They're all honorably discharged veterans of the Israeli Defense Forces. Not one of them, not one of them has ever been involved in any kind of criminal activity.

MESERVE: So is this American justice?

LEOPOLD: Well these kids were thrown into a secret trial essentially, a trial that was, a hearing that was closed to the public, was closed to family, was closed to press, was held by only a judge that could have a national security interest, and the government came into court with not one scintilla of evidence suggesting any kind of a public threat, any kind of a link to terrorism, any kind of a link whatsoever to September 11 and national security.

MESERVE: But isn't it possible that that evidence exists and it just was not made public to you or to your clients?

LEOPOLD: I -- no, I don't think it exists at all. It's impossible. If it had existed, the immigration judge never would have granted bond. This immigration judge, who by the way is a -- was a no-nonsense tough immigration judge, took a look at the evidence, gave the government, Jeanne, every opportunity to bring evidence in camera. That means privately. Every opportunity to bring in any piece of evidence whatever, whatsoever that they could find...

MESERVE: Mr. Leopold, let me jump in here and just ask, what do you do now? Are you contemplating any legal action against the U.S. Government?

LEOPOLD: Well absolutely, I mean it's outrageous that they would have to sit here and not be able to go home. I mean we have -- we are contemplating our options, whether it comes in terms of a Federal writ of Habeas Corpus or a Mandamus, we do intend to bring this before the proper officials. I've already made a demand by letter that they be given their passports back and the permission to go home. But look, in this country, the final arbiter is the Federal Courts and we do intend to pursue that option if it's necessary. Hopefully it won't be necessary.

MESERVE: And we have to leave it there, I'm afraid. David Leopold and also Oren Behr, thank you both for joining us this morning.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com