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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Sam Greenfield, Debbie Schlussel

Aired December 23, 2001 - 08:42   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, controversy gave way to popularity in the naming of "TIME" magazine's Person of the Year. Osama step aside: Rudy Giuliani is the winner.

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MAYOR RUDOLPH GIULIANI, NEW YORK: A special word to people who may be worried about their immigration status, undocumented people: Do not worry. The Immigration and Nationalization Service has indicated that no one is going to be proceeded against or in any way affected by this procedure. It's -- in other words, it's being done without any impact at all. And your immigration status -- you're protected, you're safe. You are otherwise in New York City. A lot of people don't believe that, but that is the case.

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GIULIANI: ... and the treason against the United States of America, particularly at a time in which the United States of America is in peril of attack and further attack. So I believe the death penalty is the appropriate -- appropriate remedy to consider.

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O'BRIEN: Well, we didn't say it was the Grammy, folks, just Person of the Year, all right?

Now, of course, by top choice was Osama bin Laden. A lot of the folks in the newsroom feel that that is the best choice. One of our guests to follow picked Osama bin Laden. Sam Greenfield, of station WEVD in New York, to be specific. One of the other leading contenders, President George W. Bush. Debbie Schlussel, a columnist for Worldnetdaily.com, predicted him.

So these guys are 0 for 2. Actually, collectively we're 0 for 3, if you want to count it that way. Rudy Giuliani, let's call it like it is, guys. Was this a decision based on selling magazines?

SAM GREENFIELD, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I think so, absolutely. There was an article in the paper yesterday that said "TIME" magazine -- "TIME" magazine's revenues are down 27 percent. They were scared of offending some of their readers who had called in to say they were going to cancel their subscription.

All due respect to Mayor Giuliani. I live in New York and he's done a wonderful job. But this guy is Person of the Year based on his behavior in an act predicated by Osama bin Laden.

Osama bin Laden is the newsmaker of the year, and "TIME" would have had less of a problem if they had named him newsmaker of the year. Person of the Year sounds like you're giving somebody an award at a dinner.

O'BRIEN: Well this is -- this maybe is the problem, Debbie. It's been confused over the years into turning into some sort of civic honor, because most of the people in recent memory that have been selected have been people of note, and people who we admire.

DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL, WORDLNETDAILY.COM: Well, you are right about that. But the fact is, it's also the person who has been the biggest newsmaker. And I think Rudy Giuliani really stepped up to the challenge. The attack did take place in his city, it doesn't matter who precipitated it.

The fact is that if they had picked Osama bin Laden, Steven's (sic) right, their numbers probably would have gone down even more so significantly for subscriptions. But also, every time they pick somebody like this -- Hitler in 1938, or Ayatollah Khomeini in the late '70s -- that person has, the next year, basically gone out of the picture. And right now...

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: So that would have been a good choice. But that -- but that would have been a good choice on that pretext, I suppose. Wait a minute, Debbie, you chose George W. Bush, though. You make it sound like you were in advance picking Rudy.

SCHLUSSEL: Well, Rudy was my second choice, actually. And George Bush was picked last year, and they've never picked anybody twice in a row. I think they probably could have picked Bush again; but Giuliani is an equally great choice. He stepped up to the challenge. And I think he did so with grace and with coolness. And I think, frankly, I'm sorry he can't be mayor again.

O'BRIEN: All right, but...

GREENFIELD: See, no one's arguing that Rudy Giuliani did a great job. But, Debbie, I disagree with you when you say it doesn't matter what precipitated it. Osama bin Laden's action precipitated Giuliani's behavior. He is the -- he is the hub around all these other folks that we're talking about for Person of the Year. Bin Laden caused this. (CROSSTALK)

GREENFIELD: Giuliani's legacy -- Giuliani's legacy before September 11 was going to be a tough, mean guy who was in the middle of a bad divorce.

SCHLUSSEL: Oh I -- I disagree with that wholeheartedly.

GREENFIELD: George Bush was being...

(CROSSTALK)

GREENFIELD: I live -- I'm sorry, I live in New York and I'm telling you you're wrong.

SCHLUSSEL: That doesn't matter. I watch New York on the news and the fact is that Giuliani cleaned up Times Square, crime is down in New York. New Yorkers are proud again to be New Yorkers.

GREENFIELD: That was '98, that was not 2001.

SCHLUSSEL: But you're talking about his legacy, and your assessment of his legacy is not...

(CROSSTALK)

GREENFIELD: No, I'm not talking about his legacy. I'm talking...

SCHLUSSEL: You just said that that legacy was going to be a mean, tough...

GREENFIELD: Of the year 2001. Until September 11, neither of these people was going to be...

SCHLUSSEL: It doesn't matter. What matters is that he's in the news now and he stepped up to the challenge and he's...

GREENFIELD: Of course it matters.

He stepped up to what challenge? He stepped up to what challenge? A challenge...

(CROSSTALK)

GREENFIELD: ... thrown down by a mad man named Osama bin Laden.

O'BRIEN: All right. All right, guys, you know we're not going to settle this one, I'm afraid. We should give everybody the proper disclaimer here, that "TIME" is, of course, owned by our parent company, AOL-Time Warner. And so when we say all these things, you should keep it in mind.

GREENFIELD: In that case, it was a great choice and I applaud it wholeheartedly. O'BRIEN: OK. Let's move on. Let's talk about this whole incident on this flight. Is anybody as outraged as I am over the fact that they let this guy on and they hadn't even checked a bag. He was flying from Paris to Miami, didn't have a bag, and they just said, you know, "Get on. Enjoy your flight, sir."

GREENFIELD: How many -- how many people get on flights every day? I'm surprised this doesn't happen more. If you consider the amount of people they have, and the fact that they do not have the security in place in Europe and in other parts -- in parts of America, I'm thrilled that this doesn't happen more...

O'BRIEN: Well, wait a minute. If you've flown out of Paris, especially European airports, are much more like armed camps. Certainly, pre-9/11...

(CROSSTALK)

GREENFIELD: Right. They have armed guards at the gate. They have armed guards at the gates, right.

SCHLUSSEL: Well, Miles, I think it shows that really the security is not much tighter than it was before. And everything we're seeing with the long lines is a really a pretense. The fact is, they don't check most of the luggage. They don't X-ray it. So even if he had luggage, maybe if there was a bomb in there, it probably would have exploded.

But I think the other lesson here is that he was immediately subdued by passengers. And they now know that it's either them or the hijackers. Whereas before, they thought there was a chance of negotiating with hijackers. And I think it's terrific that the plot was foiled. But I think airport security is the same as it was before, it's just longer lines and more problems than answers.

GREENFIELD: Yes, I've got to tell you, it's not like -- it's not like it was before, because no one had to wait three hours three months ago.

SCHLUSSEL: Right. I said there's...

GREENFIELD: It's more intense.

SCHLUSSEL: No, no...

GREENFIELD: It's more -- it's much more intense, much more intense.

O'BRIEN: Just quickly, this whole issue, you do get the sense at times, particularly when you're flying domestically, that a lot of it is, quite frankly, window dressing just to make people feel a little more secure, when, in fact -- at least on domestic flights -- they're still not screening every bag that goes into the belly of an aircraft, which -- which is an amazing statement.

GREENFIELD: It's a scary statement. It's paralyzingly scary that they don't have the wherewithal -- they do, but they don't use it -- to X-ray every single bag. And you -- like you said earlier, a guy flying from Paris to Miami, no baggage? What's he going to do, hang out in South Beach until someone gives him an apartment? No, that's silly.

O'BRIEN: All he needed was his bathing suit, maybe.

GREENFIELD: That's right.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you very much, Sam Greenfield, Debbie Schlussel. We appreciate you...

GREENFIELD: Thank you. Happy holidays.

O'BRIEN: Same to you both. Thank you for batting this around. And we know that now that our viewers, as well as ourselves, are wide awake.

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