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CNN Sunday Morning

Flight Crew, Passengers Leapt Into Action on Flight 63

Aired December 23, 2001 - 09:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: More now on those anxious moments on board American Airlines 63. Transatlantic passengers intervened when a man tried to ignite what's being called an improvised explosive in his shoes. The flight from Paris to Miami was diverted to Boston's Logan Airport yesterday.

That's where we find our Kathleen Koch with the latest.

Good morning, Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles. This is truly one of the most extraordinary stories that we have heard of an attempt to cause -- again the substance in the man's shoes, explosives. You know, just one of the most bizarre attempts to perhaps bring down a plane.

And apparently what happened is this flight, Flight 63 was headed fro Paris to Miami, very uneventfully, when a very observant flight attendant smelled sulfur in the aircraft, wondered what it might be, noticed this person trying to apparently set their shoes on fire.

It was a very tall in Row 29, about six-foot-four, over 200 pounds with long, dark hair, and she and the passengers on board immediately leapt into action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THIERRY DUGEON, FLIGHT 63 PASSENGER: I think that the guy was trying to light up matches, and first he tried and one of the stewardesses was told, came and asked him to put it out, that he could not do that on the plane.

They guy said OK, and then the stewardess left and a couple of minutes later, he did it again, and then she tried to stop him, and then there was the flight.

Apparently he was trying to light up his own shoe, which apparently I've been told was containing C-4 explosives, but I'm not sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Now when the flight was escorted to the ground by U.S. jet fighters, the suspect was immediately taken into custody by the FBI. He's being held at an undisclosed location for interference with a flight crew.

Now the FBI is examining the substance in his shoes. They found that some holes had been drilled in the heels of his shoes, but there was some sort of substance that was consistent with the explosive C-4. There was some detonating wire. So they're analyzing that right now at an FBI lab to see just what it might have been.

And Miles, one of the big questions here is why were there no red flags raised when this man got on this flight, leaving Paris with only carry-on bags.

That is most unusual for an overseas flight, and as a matter of fact, it was actually in 1986 that there was a young Irish woman who was headed toward Jordan and very alert officials of El Al Airlines in Heathrow Airport questioned her extensively. "Why don't you have carry-on bags? Why are you, a young pregnant Irish woman, traveling alone." When they searched her carry-on bag, they found that there were explosives hidden in the bottom.

So obviously, it's a traditional red flag, someone traveling this way. No one knows why it wasn't picked up.

O'BRIEN: Meanwhile, as we see the busy traffic behind you, another busy travel day at all the nation's airports today, I know you've been busy this morning. You've been up early. But have you have had a chance to talk to many passengers, flight crews, see what the mood is there?

KOCH: Well this obviously increases the nervousness and the apprehension that some Americans are still feeling since September 11 about flying. Obviously security has been tightened across the board at airports here in the United States.

But, some of the flight crews we talked to this morning said that this made them very nervous, that this is just the sort of thing that they've been worried that they would have to face in the cabin, where they are really the last line of defense. Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Kathleen Koch, thank you very much. Those military jets, F-15s that escorted Flight 63 to Boston are based at the Otis Air National Guard Base on Cape Cod.

Our next guest and our military analyst, retired Major General Don Shepperd spent a little time at Otis Air National Guard base as a commander there. What's your official title and rank that you held there?

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I was the Air Commander. I was a colonel at the time, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. I'm constantly raising your rank and I appreciate you setting me straight and keeping me honest. Let's talk a little bit about these intercepts and these CAP missions that have been underway, these Combat Air Patrols that have been underway ever since September 11. I've talked to a lot of guard pilots about all of this, and they say generally the big issue has been, over time, that just maintaining vigilance, maintaining that sharp edge when they're being asked to do so much. Do you get that sense as well, that they're sort of at the frayed edges of their abilities right now?

SHEPPERD: Yes, it's a difficult situation. Basically, when you are orbiting on CAP or sitting alert, you're not getting any training. You have many other things to train in, other than just intercepts, and so this is a difficult proposition.

Hopefully, it's a temporary proposition, but it looks like it's going to go for some time. We have rotating CAPs that are capping Washington and New York and selected other points from time to time, as well as scrambles when airplanes reportedly have incidents on board.

I understand they've been scrambled around 90 times since 9/11. So they're busy, but it's not good training and it inhibits the other things that they need to do, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Well and in many cases it's not what you sign up to the guard for. A lot of these people are former active duty people who went to the guards so they would spend more time with their families. Of course, that is not happening.

I talked to some folks down at Langley on a temporary duty assignment from Oregon, for example. They might as well be back on active duty. Are we asking the guard to do too much here? Looking at the big picture here, do they need to be augmented somehow?

SHEPPERD: Well, here's good news and here's bad news. We used to stay home and wait for the big one. Fortunately the good news is, the big one never came, the nuclear war, the war with the Soviet Union.

When the Soviet Union went away, and the military was downsized, guardsmen and reservists all over America became quasi full-time soldiers. The pilots in the guard and reserve right now are spending anywhere from 90 to 110 days a year with their units, in addition to having a full-time job and, of course, a family.

It's a big load on them, and in addition, they take regular rotations overseas, side-by-side with their active duty counterparts. They spend shorter times, but they do go over, and it's a big load on these people. They're proud to do it, but it's a tough and heavy load and they're doing it very well.

O'BRIEN: All right, put us inside the cockpit here for a moment. Those two F-16s scramble out of Otis, and they are told to intercept a 767, and unclear how much information they had in their cockpits.

But nevertheless, there must have been a terrible sense of dread, as we look at the picture here. You see in that highlighted area, you can see the F-15s as they scream over Boston Logan, as the 767 rolls to a stop. But, there must be this terrible sense of dread over what might actually ensue should they have to carry out those awful orders.

SHEPPERD: Yes, you're sitting alert and you're sitting there watching TV or reading the newspaper or whatever and the buzzer goes off, and you have no idea what or why, but lurking in the back of your mind, especially since 9/11, is the possibility that you might be called on to do the most awful act. Highly unlikely, but the possibility is there.

En route, they're talking to their controllers. They're talking to the FAA and they're getting as much information as possible before they join up on the airplane. When they join up on the airplane, they look it over. They want to give a sense of security to the pilots on board, and then of course escort it to landing.

But they're there to do whatever is necessary, and again hopefully, nothing bad is ever necessary and they're just an escort as was the case in this incident.

O'BRIEN: All right, it just kind of raises the hair on the back of your neck to think about what they might have to encounter in those cases. Many of them, of course, these guardsmen, airline pilots in their day jobs.

SHEPPERD: Yes, about 60 or 70 percent of them fly your airliners across America. Again, they're well trained. They'll get out of the active duty after seven, eight, nine, ten years.

They continue on to 20, 22, 23 years, so the American public is getting the worth out of these people, and again the good news is, when you put it to the test, you can't tell the difference between active duty guard and reserve because of the experience of all of them, because the active duty trains and equips these pilots and inspects them to the same standards. It's a magnificent system we've got, the total force in this United States.

O'BRIEN: I will fly with them any day. All right, Major General Don Shepperd, thanks as always for your comments. We appreciate them.

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