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CNN Sunday Morning

Where Is Osama bin Laden?

Aired December 30, 2001 - 08:11   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Bin Laden may have been killed in Tora Bora. He may still be hiding in Afghanistan, or he may have escaped to Pakistan. We have new and conflicting reports this morning. CNN Military Analyst Retired Air Force Major General Don Shepperd is back with us to help sort things out as usual. General, good morning again.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Good morning, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, according to Pakistani sources, some Arab prisoners tell American investigators that they saw Osama bin Laden around December 14, just four days before they were captured. Another report says bin Laden is in the Pakistani city of Peshawar. All these reports on bin Laden's whereabouts are beginning to sound like Elvis sightings. Do you think that there's any reliable information within all of this?

SHEPPERD: I think reliable information that's coming out of this is that he was alive around the 14-15 December time frame if reports are fairly consistent. The reports about where he is right now do not appear to be reliable. If we knew where he was, we would certainly be racing there. But, yeah, I think he was alive at that time. Now, remember, that was intense activity over the Tora Bora area. So he could have been killed in some of the air strikes, and these prisoners -- or these detainees, rather -- may not know it, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, Pakistan's foreign minister says his country would arrest bin Laden if he crosses from Afghanistan into Pakistan. Do you believe that? And does Pakistan stand a better chance of finding bin Laden before U.S. forces?

SHEPPERD: Absolutely, I would believe they would do it. And if he's in Pakistan, it's likely that they would stand a better chance because there's not a large U.S. force presence in Pakistan. Although, clearly, there's some liaison special forces people in Pakistan coordinating with the Pakistan military. But if he's in Pakistan, they would likely find him before we did. And, absolutely, they would turn him over. They have no interest in al Qaeda or bin Laden being able to operate in their country. It only complicates an already complicated situation in Pakistan, especially with the Pakistan India situation going on.

PHILLIPS: Now yesterday British and Afghan soldiers took part in their first patrol together in Kabul. And this morning, an agreement was finalized on an international peacekeeping force for Afghanistan. Who's going to make up this force, and what will their responsibilities be?

SHEPPERD: Yeah, this is an important development. This is the transition between war and peace and the initial steps. It's the ISAF, International Security Assistant Force, initially commanded by Major General John McColl, a British major general. The British are very good at this, lots of experience in Northern Ireland, Bosnia and other places. They are tough and they are no-nonsense. But they know how to draw the line between combat and police work.

And this is police work, getting people to lay down their arms first in Kabul and then in other cities across the country and spending law and order across the country. And then taking the military -- the armed military -- and putting them in camps outside of Kabul and other cities, and getting the citizens to trust the fact that there is law and order, not war going on in their country. It's a very important development and at the very early stages, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, besides terrorism, let's talk about something else that Afghanistan is known very well for, and that is this new video that we got this morning of poppy fields used for opium production already sprouting there in Jalalabad. The drug trade and terrorism are closely linked in Afghanistan. Now if drug production continues, will terrorism return to Afghanistan? I want to know what you think about that. And, is it in the U.S. interest to help the Afghan people find other sources of revenue?

SHEPPERD: Your last statement is absolutely correct. Again, war is relatively easy compared to peace and compared to running a country. War clearly defines objectives to defeat the enemy, bomb these targets, take that hill. And now in peacetime, you have to establish law and order and an economy. And economy in a nation that's been devastated for 23 years. And the warlords, the people that defend the various areas of the country, have depended upon the poppy traffic to pay their soldiers.

Now you've got to bring in other elements. You have to establish industries; you have to establish a way to pay people to gain their confidence or they will go back to drug trafficking. And drug trafficking worldwide has financed terrorism in many places. We want to bring it to a halt, but this transition -- especially in Afghanistan -- has got to take place. You've got to find other ways to produce money other than drugs, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: General Don Shepperd, thank you so much. I appreciate it. We'll see you later in the hour.

SHEPPERD: Thank you.

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