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CNN Sunday Morning

Helicopter Crash Lands in Afghanistan, Killing Two Marines

Aired January 20, 2002 - 08:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Here are the latest developments in the war on terrorism. An American CH-53E Super Stallion helicopter went down in Northern Afghanistan, killing two Marines on board. It happened not long after the helicopter took off from the Bagram air base. That's where CNN's Michael Holmes is this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At about 8:00 a.m. local time, two CH-53E Super Stallion helicopters took off from the Bagram air base here on a re-supply mission. Onboard, seven U.S. Marines on each. They were heading to Northern Afghanistan to resupply U.S. troops in the filed.

These helicopters are the workhorse of the military here in terms of re-supply. They can carry 55 fully equipped troops, or up to 60,000 kilograms of supplies. One of the two helicopters obviously experienced difficulties and went in for what's being called by the military a "hard landing." Now that hard landing caused the deaths of two U.S. Marines. All five others on board were injured. Two of them critical condition, two serious condition. One, apparently minor injuries.

A rescue operation was mounted. They were able to land at the crash site despite it being in mountainous terrain. And they were able to bring the dead and wounded out and back here to the Bagram air base. They were then treated at the U.S. military hospital facility here. A very well equipped facility we're told. And then they report on board a C-130 U.S. transport plane and taken to another medical facility. We don't yet know where.

This is the second incident involving a CH-53E Super Stallion. It was in December that one also experienced what's called a hard landing. That was outside of Kandahar. Four Marines on board; none seriously hurt. No word yet on whether these helicopters will be grounded as a result of this second incident, nor is there any word yet on what caused this latest incident.

At the moment, we're told families in the United States are being notified of the dead and injured. And we will be keeping up to date on what's been happening. Again, two dead Marines, five injured. Two of those in critical condition. They have been medevaced out of the Bagram air base.

Michael Holmes, CNN, at the Bagram air base outside Kabul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: And we should tell you that while Michael was giving that report, we just got this word in from the Pentagon that they're now calling this incident a crash landing. As you had heard Michael Holmes saying it before, had been called a hard landing. Now the Pentagon saying that it is indeed called a crash landing.

Let's go to Jeff Levine, who's standing by at the Pentagon with the very latest on that.

Good morning, Jeff.

JEFF LEVINE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Catherine. Indeed, we heard that just a few moments ago from a Pentagon spokesman. The incident has, in effect, been upgraded from a hard landing to a crash landing, meaning it was a more serious event than previously reported in terms of the degree of that crash. Now we also learned that probably within a few hours, by 12:00 Eastern time, we should have the names of the two individuals killed -- the two Marines killed in that crash.

I think we should tell you a bit more about the helicopter involved in this situation. It's been really a workhorse of the U.S. Marine Corps for the last 20 years. As we have been saying, this is CH-53E Super Stallion that helped rescue Americans from war-torn Somalia in 1990. Two of the craft came to the aid of Air Force Captain Scott O'Grady in June of 1995, when he was down in Bosnia.

Now here are some of the stats. It's a transportation vehicle for heavy equipment and supplies, moving them from ship to shore. It can handle operations of all sorts, assault and transportation. And it has a crew of three. The helicopter is 99 feet long and it's about 28 feet in height. It's pretty speedy for a helicopter, 172.5 miles per hour. It's maximum takeoff weight -- and I guess this is one of the key things -- is almost 70,000 pounds. And it actually can carry a bit more than that if necessary.

Now the helicopter was introduced, as we said, about 20 years ago in 1981. The cost is about $26 million. It's a three-engine device, and it's made by Sikorsky. For example, to give you an idea of how much it can carry, we understand that the helicopter can carry a 16,000 pound Howitzer or a 26,000 pound light armored vehicle.

So, obviously, it's quite versatile; it's quite a workhorse. It is the primary tool for carrying things in Afghanistan for the Marine Corps, and it operates under all conditions. So in a way, perhaps it's not surprising that they might run into trouble there in the air very often doing a lot of different types of tasks -- Catherine.

CALLAWAY: You know, Jeff, I know it's still early on this Sunday morning, still early in this incident. But is the Pentagon saying -- giving any indication at all that this air craft may have been shot down? LEVINE: They're not ruling that out, but they're certainly not saying that's what caused it. They're investigating. It's one of those situations where it will take a thorough analysis to see what happened. They're not going to be saying right this minute, but you can rest assured that as soon as the word comes out -- if it comes out today or it comes out later -- it probably will not come out today. But when it does come out, when the official version is iterated, we will certainly have it for you -- Catherine.

CALLAWAY: All right. Thank you. CNN's Jeff Levine at the Pentagon. Thanks, Jeff.

LEVINE: Thanks.

O'BRIEN: There have been some other incidents in Operation Enduring Freedom involving American military aircraft -- a quick review for you. Last October, a Black Hawk helicopter crashed in Pakistan, killing two Army rangers on board. In December, a CH-53E Super Stallion helicopter, the same as the most current incident, went down in a desert area northwest of Kandahar. It was described as a "hard landing." Four Marines on board were uninjured, and that helicopter ultimately was repaired and flew out of the scene.

Early this month, a KC-130 refueling plane crashed in Western Pakistan. All seven Marines on board were killed in that incident. And, as we told you earlier, a Super Stallion helicopter made what officials are now calling a "crash landing," not a hard landing. A crash landing in a remote region in Northern Afghanistan near the Bagram air base. Two Marines killed, five others wounded, two of them critically.

For a closer look at this crash and, in general, the safety of air operations in Enduring Freedom, let's go to our Washington bureau and our military analyst, Major General Don Shepperd standing by live with us this morning. Welcome back, General Shepperd.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. This particular incident -- they're calling it a crash landing now -- for folks who aren't familiar with helicopters, when an engine quits, there's a certain amount of glide capability in these helicopters, right?

SHEPPERD: There is. This is a three-engine helicopter, so it's unlikely that the failure of one engine could cause it to go down. Just from the rhetoric -- and this is way far out speculation, way too far out ahead of time -- when they call it a crash landing, something probably went wrong that forced the airplane to make an immediate landing. And when that happens, you don't have a chance to choose exactly where you land. You do the best you can. And it's very likely that that's what happened in this case when they changed the rhetoric from hard landing to crash landing.

O'BRIEN: And the term "crash landing" implies that the pilots had a problem that they were dealing with, but didn't have enough time, as you say, to find an appropriate place to land.

SHEPPERD: Right. All sorts of things could happen, particularly in a helicopter. But you can glide to a landing. They do what they call an auto rotation, for instance, if they lose power. They keep air speed by putting it into a dive, and then at the last minute they conserve their energy and they use all of their energy to make the landing. And, again, they do the best they can. Something forced them down here is what it sounds like.

O'BRIEN: That auto rotation, those blades still spinning, of course. Now, this particular helicopter, a workhorse with a tremendous payload capability, is it possible it was overloaded?

SHEPPERD: Oh, I suppose that's possible. But these guys know what they're doing. They're very, very careful. This is -- it can carry up to 16 tons. It can lift its own weight when they added the third engine there. They upgraded from the D model to the E model, and it's a real -- they used to call it the medium lift helicopter, it's now a heavy lift helicopter.

It can carry a light armored vehicle, a Howitzer. And there was even a picture on one of the web sites of it carrying an S-3 refueling airplane off a Navy ship. It's a very versatile airplane, and it's highly unlikely that they overloaded it. They -- again, they really know what they're doing. They're well trained, these crews.

O'BRIEN: Give me a sense about the crews, though. The number of missions, the -- it obviously is taxing, the equipment and the personnel. Could that be a factor? And I hate to get into this area of speculation...

SHEPPERD: Yes.

O'BRIEN: ... but, I mean, in general, we're asking a lot of the people in the field and the equipment.

SHEPPERD: Miles, it's reasonable to speculate on the situation over there. We make this stuff look like a video game; we make it look so easy. For the most part, nothing happens. These things that we are doing in Afghanistan, the troops all over the world, these things are exceedingly dangerous -- these military operations.

So you go off the ships at night, when you go into bad terrain and bad weather, when you're on night vision goggles, when you're in dust and when people are shooting at you, it's very, very dangerous. And we pull it off, for the most part, as though, hey, there's nothing to this. But there is a lot to it.

The joint training, the excellent equipment that we have, it makes it safe most of the time. And this has been a very safe operation in a very difficult environment.

O'BRIEN: Yeah, and the interesting point here is -- of course, we don't know for sure on this one -- but indications are it wasn't shot at. The bottom line is that all the fatalities recorded to date in this particular war have not been the result of the enemy firing at U.S. aircraft. That's an interesting point.

SHEPPERD: Yeah, that's true. On the other hand, it could be that something mechanically went wrong that could have been caused by ground fire -- either a missile or ground fire from a triple-A gun, or even small arms. And the crew doesn't even know what caused them to go down.

O'BRIEN: But generally, it is presumed that we have -- the U.S. has fairly good control of the area around the Bagram airfield. Is that a safe assumption now, given the fact that it's so mountainous and there's so many of those caves that we keep talking about? There could be some isolated pockets of resistance.

SHEPPERD: It's never safe, and you always have to assume that you're going to be shot at whenever you take off. You could be shot at by a missile several months from now, or by somebody with a hand- held gun or a triple-A piece that's been conserved back in a cave. You're never out of the weather when you are in a military operation. And as soon as you relax, I guarantee you, something's about to go wrong.

O'BRIEN: Major General Don Shepperd, retired, of the U.S. Air Force. Our military analyst, thanks as always. We'll check in with you later.

SHEPPERD: It's a pleasure.

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