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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Victoria Jones, Blanquita Cullum
Aired January 20, 2002 - 10:19 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Enron may have been near collapse, but the company's CEO still talked-up Enron's stock to employees during a Web chat; that's according to a transcript of the chat conducted only weeks before Enron went bankrupt. Enron CEO Kenneth Lay told workers that the stock was available at an incredible bargain and that it was an opportunity. I guess what he didn't say was it was a short-sell opportunity.
Anyway, a lawyer representing former Enron workers provided CNN with the transcript. They are suing Enron after losing their pensions and their savings. The Enron fallout was among the week's top stories, and continues to be; and I predict it will be for many months to come.
Let's take a look back at the week ion the news with our two guests: radio talk show hosts Victoria Jones from Washington and Blanquita "BQ" Cullum is with the Radio America network. And she's in Montreal this morning.
BLANQUITA CULLUM, RADIO AMERICA NETWORK: I am.
O'BRIEN: Why are you up there BQ?
CULLUM: I came here to do a wonderful program in Canada called "The Editors." So that's why I'm here.
O'BRIEN: Al right. Well, now that we've got that dispensed with from A to Zed, let's move on and let's talk about Enron here. The other story that came out this past week that was of great interest, too, was Vice President Cheney meeting with the Indian opposition parties there, was pressuring them to pay a debt that was owed to Enron.
It's hard to say what that all means, but Blanquita, why don't you start. What do you make of that...
CULLUM: Let me tell you, I think that what's going to happen here is everybody's got a foot in this camp, whether it's the right or the left. There was another story that one of Joe Lieberman's top advisers, a Democrat, political consultant, very highly involved with the DNC -- the DLC was also trying to get the ear of Lieberman.
I think we're going to find that it's in both camps. Unfortunately, it's so convoluted in some ways that it's not going to have legs in one political camp over the other.
On the other hand, I think that whatever administration or whatever political camp, just give the information to the American people and let's get on with it.
O'BRIEN: All right, there's no disagreement there, is there, Victoria?
VICTORIA JONES, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: No, there's no disagreement. They should be turning over the information, and they should be turning over all of it. And I don't believe that we're getting all of it.
There's no question that there are feet in both camps, but there are differences in terms of the amounts of money. We've got 73 percent to Republicans, 27 percent to Democrats. However, you go back to the Clinton administration, you see coziness.
The thing is, if we focus on those things, we're missing out. The focus here has to be on the crookery in Enron and what allowed that to happen, and what is going to happen to the workers who have been left with nothing, and what should happen to people like Ken Lay, who should be behind bars doing time.
CULLUM: And it's interesting Victoria, because yesterday on "The Editors," Governor Howard Dean from Vermont, a Democrat, suggested that Ken Lay should be -- you know, be prosecuted, and if convicted, put behind bars. He really thinks that the guy should go...
JONES: I don't think he's the only one. I think there are probably others at the top of Enron. There are 29 executives there; many of them, i think, should be...
O'BRIEN: Well, let's not forget -- let's not forget Arthur Andersen here.
JONES: Just real quick, I think everybody involved in this investigation, if they're in Congress or if they're in the White House, needs to give the money to the fund for the employees.
(CROSSTALK)
CULLUM: And look what happened, even as you pointed out, Victoria, with the Clinton administration, where they were buying trips -- $100,000 to go on commerce trips and energy trips, and trying to go on government junkets. They were really trying to get their time in with the cash.
O'BRIEN: All right, well bottom line then -- bottom line...
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: We're going to have to move on here. But quickly: Is this a Whitewater for the Bush administration?
CULLUM: No, and I'll tell you why. First of all, this is a really weird time. You have -- first of all, it's very convoluted. It's hard to get a grasp on all of the people and where money is coming from. And right now, at a time after 9/11, people like this president. They don't want to not believe in this president. They like him, and they want to be able to have some sense of trust in the government.
And so I don't believe it will be. And frankly, people have burned out on a lot of this stuff.
O'BRIEN: Victoria?
JONES: Yes, people are burned -- well, people have burned out, but people also want to know the truth. And we also want to see justice done.
We understand this story. This story is about cooking the books and screwing the workers and making off with the money. We understand that story; we've seen that story before.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk about this statue controversy in New York. We've all seen the original image -- the firefighters putting that flag up; you know, very reminiscent of the Iwo Jima Memorial. Of course, the statue is unveiled, and it's been -- there's been a little bit of revisionist history. It was three white firefighters who did it, and instead there's a Hispanic, a black, and a white firefighter.
What's the problem with that? I mean, after all, it was a whole racial mix of firefighters and rescue workers involved there, why not represent them in this memorial?
CULLUM: Well because, first of all, this was not like with the Iwo Jima Monument, where they actually posed these people. This was spontaneous. This was history. These guys did this.
And I've got to tell you that I do believe -- I think it's important that all races and, you know, lifestyles are reflected because many people died there. But this was history. And I think, you know, if you looked at it, is it really racist, I mean, if there were three black firemen, would they have the same kind of reaction? Would people have allow that to happen? Or three Hispanics? And I'm Hispanic; I think there's nothing wrong with seeing history as it was reflected.
O'BRIEN: All right, what do you think, Victoria?
JONES: Well, I think statistically it would have been very unlikely to have seen three blacks or three Hispanics, seeing what a tiny proportion of firefighters of both of those ethnicity exist in the New York Fire Department.
I think it's the wrong statue. I think a statue that's reminiscent of Iwo Jima says nothing about what happened st the World Trade Center. I think relying on guys raising the flag -- it's nice, it's patriotic -- but it's not about the rescue. I would like to see a completely different statue, see this scrapped, and see something that involves firefighters and police officers rescuing human beings. That's what I would like to see.
CULLUM: This actually happened. And since it actually happened and it was...
JONES: So what?
CULLUM: I mean, I have to say that since it did happen, we should respect that and respect those men who do it.
JONES: It happened. We've got a picture, and it's a lovely picture. I don't think it was...
CULLUM: And it was a heroic, beautiful, touching thing that these men did under a crisis. And it was the most terrible tragedy in our history.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: I still think it's more moving to see people rescuing people. That's what this was about.
O'BRIEN: Why don't we just do a contest and see if anybody can do any better, and just see what happens there?
CULLUM: I would suggest to you there will be many. But don't ruin the thing that really happened. Don't...
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: You know what I'd like to see at this point, quite honestly...
O'BRIEN: It doesn't ruin the thing that happened.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Why don't we have a statue of the dogs? Let's have a statue of the dogs. The dogs were unbelievable heroes; nobody can get upset about ethnicities, and they're cute.
CULLUM: But New York is...
(CROSSTALK)
CULLUM: New York reflected the best of what is America on that day -- the greatness of spirit, the...
JONES: We don't need a statue to know that.
CULLUM: No one was looking at color, no one was looking at religion.
JONES: We don't need a statue to know that.
CULLUM: What are you going to put transgender? You're going to put -- I mean, give me a break. Who's been forgotten on that thing? JONES: Nobody is forgetting anything. We all know what happened.
O'BRIEN: You know what ladies? We did not budget enough time for this. And I owe you some apologies for that. We'll have you back and we'll...
CULLUM: You promise, Miles?
O'BRIEN: I do.
(CROSSTALK)
CULLUM: I'm writing it in my book right now.
O'BRIEN: And we're rolling tape on this right now; you can hold my feet to the fire on this.
JONES: We're looking forward to it, Miles. We like talking to you.
O'BRIEN: Blanquita Cullum, Victoria Jones, thanks for getting up early and coming in for an abbreviated debate on this Sunday morning. We appreciate it.
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