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CNN Sunday Morning

Amnesty International Calls for Policy Change

Aired January 27, 2002 - 07:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now, a closer look at the legal status of Taliban and al Qaeda fighters held captive by the U.S. military. The human rights group, Amnesty International, is voicing support for a policy change reportedly endorsed by Secretary of State Colin Powell.

What is unclear is whether Powell really is pushing for those detainees to be reclassified as prisoners of war. Published reports say Powell is lobbying the change from their current status of unlawful combatants, meaning they weren't part of a recognized army.

According to a memo obtained by the "Washington Times," White House counsel, Alberto Gonzales, writes to President Bush, "The secretary of state has requested that you reconsider that decision. Specifically he" - meaning Powell - " has asked that you conclude that the GPW (Geneva Provisions regarding the Treatment of Prisoners of War) does apply to both al Qaeda and the Taliban."

A senior administration official downplays the request, saying the memo was merely draft. The source goes on to say, "The president's advisers all agree that Taliban and al Qaeda fighters are not prisoners of war. Nobody thinks they are entitled to prisoners of war status."

The debate over the status of the detainees carries deep consequences, both legal and political. One attorney with extensive experience in both civil and criminal matters involving the U.S. government says, "That makes the current state of limbo all the more critical."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARRY POLLACK, PARTNER, NIXON PEABODY: The distinction has to be made, which of these detainees qualify for POW status. But until that distinction can be made, they all should be treated as if they are POWs. The Geneva Convention requires that in a situation where there's some doubt, you assume that they're POWs until you're able to demonstrate otherwise for particular individuals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: The interrogation of prisoners in Guantanamo has begun without lawyers present. Afghan civilians are disputing the Pentagon's version of a bloody firefight. The U.S. says Special Forces troops raided two Taliban compounds north of Kandahar and killed about 15 people in a shootout over a large weapons cache. But villagers say the victims were innocent peace brokers trying to negotiate the surrender of those weapons. Joining us for some perspective is military analyst retired Major General Don Shepperd.

General Shepperd, good morning to you, sir.

MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Good morning, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Difficult from where we sit to determine who is telling the truth here, whether it's these Afghan accusations or the military thus far. What can you add to it?

SHEPPERD: Well, we certainly hope that it's not the case. Now, this was a Special Forces raid and the Special Forces are very tightly tied in with the opposition forces in the Kandahar area. So it's very - we're very hopeful they did not make a mistake. It's always possible. The reports say that the people sent to negotiate to the turnover of these weapons stayed overnight in a madrassa school in a particular village there. These madrassa schools have often, in the border areas, been targeted as areas of refuge, if you will, for the Taliban and al Qaeda as well as the things that they normally do, schools for youths so again, much to be played out here, many questions to be asked of the Pentagon. It's always possible to make a mistake when you start shooting. You have to be very, very careful and the best you we can hope for right now is that this is not the correct report.

O'BRIEN: Well, I've often wondered as this whole situation is unfolded, how you separate the good from the bad in this situation and not wearing uniforms necessarily. There's obviously a tremendous language barrier.

SHEPPERD: You have to be very, very careful and the best you we can hope for right now is that this is not the correct report.

O'BRIEN: Well, I've often wondered as this whole situation is unfolded, how you separate the good from the bad in this situation. They're not wearing uniforms necessarily. There's obviously a tremendous language barrier.

SHEPPERD: Yeah, you don't separate the good from the bad once you start shooting. That's why intelligence is so very, very important. And also, when you go into one of these situations, we are very careful not to start bombing first unless it's absolutely necessary. The same thing with shooting, when people go in on the ground, most often, you will offer the other side the opportunity to surrender rather than beginning to shoot. So it's always a very difficult thing and once the - once the bullets start to fly, they don't discriminate between the good guys and the bad guys. Intelligence is the key. O'BRIEN: All right, let's shift a little bit to the detainees in Guantanamo. And our viewers might be getting weary of this discussion, but the fact that there are reports this morning that the Secretary of State Colin Powell is asking the administration to classify some of these - perhaps upgrade them, if you will, I guess would be the term, to prisoners of war status. Help people understand why this is so important.

SHEPPERD: It's really important because of the precedent set for the treatment of prisoners worldwide in conflicts all over the world. These are types of conflicts that we have been involved in on both sides and we have to make sure that these people are treated in accordance with international law. Whether they are prisoners or whether they are lawful detainees, we must observe the law because we demand when our people are captured or taken into custody that they be treated in the same manner. So it's really, really important that we decide what we're going to do with these people, that we press out in a particular direction and that law applies.

O'BRIEN: All right, but just quickly because we are running out time, but why would there be any resistance for classifying them as such?

SHEPPERD: Again, the resistance is that various rules applies to them, what can be done with them, what is admissible in the way of evidence if you take them into court. So it's very important whether they are prisoners or whether they're unlawful detainees, whether they are authorized to have attorneys with them as they give their testimony or not. It's real, real important, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Major General Don Shepperd, retired U.S. Air Force, our military analyst. Thanks as always.

SHEPPERD: A pleasure.

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