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CNN Sunday Morning

`New York Times' Reports bin Laden is Still Alive

Aired February 24, 2002 - 10:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Yet another contradictory report this morning on the hunt for Osama bin Laden. This one comes from "The New York Times" reporting that Osama bin Laden may in fact be alive and may be hiding on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan. "The New York Times" citing unnamed administration sources.

To give you that story we're joined now by CNN's Bob Costantini at the Pentagon for reaction from there.

Hello Bob.

BOB COSTANTINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello Miles. Pentagon officials are actually downplaying the significance of the "Times'" report, especially with regard to location. They've been saying for several weeks now that they have evidence that Osama bin Laden, the alleged terrorist mastermind, apparently escaped the heavy U.S. bombardment especially in the caves and the areas where he might be heading in the area of Tora Bora and also now more recently where continued surveillance hoping to find Osama bin Laden is going on in the region of Khowst in Afghanistan. The question no matter what, they say, they question whether bin Laden on the run can be an effective al Qaeda leader.

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GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: It's possible that he's no longer alive, but I think the odds are he probably is alive. We will get bin Laden, but he's not the only one we're searching for.

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DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: It is a difficult task, and we all know that. Everyone knew that when we started. The real test is, is he able to manage effectively the al Qaeda network and engage in additional terrorist acts. Is he leading that? Is he raising additional money? Is he the power and force in recruiting more people? And the short answer is no, he's very busy -- if he's alive, he's very busy hiding.

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COSTANTINI: In recent weeks, the Pentagon has been lowering the significance of capturing or killing bin Laden. Officials say that would be just one small piece of the overall war on terrorism. They emphasize that roughly one-third of the top al Qaeda leadership has been captured or killed.

But there is a worry of a vacuum on the ground in Afghanistan. Local tribal leaders appear to be trying to use that to their advantage. There are reports of fighting among the various factions, and both Secretary Rumsfeld and General Myers are saying today that that situation makes all the more important for the U.S. to help establish an Afghan national army under the leadership of the interim leader Hamid Karzai. They are waiting recommendations from the U.S. Central Command, and they are expecting to pass those recommendations onto the White House soon -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Bob Costantini at the Pentagon. Thank you very much -- Kyra.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: All right, for more perspective on the search for Osama bin Laden, our military analyst, Major General Don Shepperd, joins us now from Washington.

General, once again, great to see you.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good to see you Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So you know I'm listening to Rumsfeld saying that Osama bin Laden is busy. Yes, he's busy hiding. Is there just too much that's being put on Osama's head? I mean how much can he really do if he truly is just very busy hiding?

SHEPPERD: Well clearly he is a trophy, but clearly also wherever he is, if he is alive, he is on the run, and it's fairly clear that we don't know for sure whether he's alive or not. The important thing is, I think that even when bin Laden and Omar are captured or dead, that these al Qaeda cells and other terrorist organizations worldwide have to be rounded up and have to be kept on the run and their leaders brought to justice. It's not just bin Laden out there Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Now before the bombing on Tora Bora, there were leaks that Osama bin Laden was heard on the radio, that he was sighted. Have there been -- has there been anything like that since the massive Tora Bora bombings?

SHEPPERD: Well I noticed the big change after Tora Bora, up until that time we had reported sightings of him on the radio, directing forces, a tall Sheikh on horseback, intercepted communications, if you will, and since then we've heard nothing like that in the way of reports.

On the other hand, we hear these repeated stories being reported about we're sure he's alive. General Franks probably puts it best, and I have heard him basically he is absolutely alive because I absolutely do not have confirmation that he's dead, and that's all I can tell you. I firmly believe that no one knows whether he's in Afghanistan or not. There may be people that know whether he's dead or alive by intercept, but they're sure not telling us Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, two quotes from this "New York Times" article that came out, senior officials saying that, "the search has bounded his whereabouts" -- bounded Osama bin Laden's whereabouts. What exactly does that mean?

SHEPPERD: I think what they mean by that is by bounded is that they know he's in a certain area. In other words, if you follow the article, that would mean, that would lead you to believe that they've bounded him in eastern Afghanistan. I doubt very seriously if we've got him bounded or if so, it's certainly breaking news because it's fairly clear if we had him bounded, that we would have airstrikes and perhaps military operations going into an area right now. There's no indication that's taking place.

PHILLIPS: Yes that's what I wanted to ask you, if for sure there was a specific area, wouldn't they just bomb the heck out of it?

SHEPPERD: Well yes and no. You got to be very careful acting on intelligence reports, in which I think at least tens, if not hundreds come in weekly. If he's amongst the population, you can't just take an intelligence reports, as if we have learned, and go bomb a village, for instance, because you think he might be there. So it's still a difficult target, going to be difficult to find him.

PHILLIPS: Final question General, by capturing or killing bin Laden it looks like a, quote, "long-term proposition", another comment made in this article. What do you think that means?

SHEPPERD: Well perhaps two things. One is it may be a long time before we actually find him and confirm that he's alive or dead and whether we have him or not. And the other they could be talking about is it's going to be a long-term proposition to go against terrorist networks worldwide, which clearly is much more important than just getting bin Laden or Omar within Afghanistan. We've got to go against these people everywhere and also clearly we are, as you follow the reports of apprehensions worldwide by police organizations.

PHILLIPS: Major General Don Shepperd, always a pleasure sir. Thank you.

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