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CNN Sunday Morning

Escalating Violence in Middle East

Aired March 03, 2002 - 07:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the escalating violence in the Mid East tops the agenda today, obviously, in the talks between Syria and Lebanon. Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, jetted to Lebanon for his first state visit with Lebanese prime minister Rafic Hariri. The first state visit by a Syrian leader to Lebanon and both leaders say they hope to dispel the idea that Lebanon operates under Syrian control.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's turn our attention now to the war on terrorism once again in Afghanistan, the fighting near Gardez. CNN's Kathleen Koch is following all that from the Pentagon.

Good morning, Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles. Well, you know, since December when the U.S. defeated the majority of Taliban and al Qaeda forces, the Pentagon has been reminding Americans that this war is not over and that there would be pockets of resistance. So Miles, this is obviously one of them.

Now, the offensive, which is as you pointed out the largest in Afghanistan so far this year, is centered in the eastern region, near Gardez. That's a town about 100 miles south of Kabul. It is very cold there. The terrain is mountainous, very high snow covered peaks, very deep valleys. The fighting there began on Friday and today, U.S. aircraft departing Bagram Air Base near Kabul continue pummeling al Qaeda and Taliban targets in the region.

Pentagon officials have estimated the number of enemy forces in the hundreds. With some Afghan fighters returning from the front and said that they were badly outnumbered, facing forces of as many as 5,000. The U.S. Army says that the targets include Taliban and al Qaeda forces hiding in a series of cave complexes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. A.C. ROPER, U.S. ARMY: Operations continue south of Gardez in Afghanistan. Firefights have been intense at times in heavy combat actions. The exact size of the enemy force occupying a series of cave complexes is not known.

To date, more than 80 pieces of ordinance have been drooped from aircraft in support of Afghan, U.S. and coalition forces. Afghan, U.S. and coalition forces are involved in eliminating al Qaeda and non-Afghan Taliban forces in the area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: The U.S. forces involved in the offensive are from the Army's 101st Airborne Division based at Kandahar Airport in southern Afghanistan. The Pentagon has not yet identified the U.S. soldier killed Saturday in the fighting or given out the names of the U.S. forces injured.

Now, this brings to five the number of U.S. military killed in combat since the U.S. offensive in Afghanistan began back in October. There have been about 14, exactly 14 non-combat U.S. deaths, most of those in helicopter crashes -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon. Thank you very much. Let's get some more...

KOCH: You bet.

O'BRIEN: ... perspective on all of this and joining us to do that is Major General George Harrison, retired with the U.S. Air Force, who is one of our military analysts.

Good to have you with us, General.

MAJOR GENERAL GEORGE HARRISON, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET): Pleasure to be here.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about perhaps dispelling some notions. I think the notion out there up until this skirmish and skirmish may be too light a word is that the Afghanistan encounter was over. We were moving on to talking about other fronts, Yemen and Georgia and wherever else the case may be that -- Southeast Asia. Still a lot of work to be done in Afghanistan.

HARRISON: Well, there is, as a matter of fact. If we can't stable our -- that government is not stabilized...

(OFF-MIKE)

HARRISON: So there's a lot of work yet to be done. The government is a fundamental issue, but there's a lot of ground of combat that probably will take place.

O'BRIEN: All right, I think we've lost your mike so I'm going to help...

HARRISON: OK, all right.

O'BRIEN: ... you with this one. So let's -- we'll continue on and the question is it seems as if the U.S. has learned the lesson of Tora Bora, which was using proxies to do the dirty work, if you will, has some limitations, correct?

HARRISON: Well, of course it has some limitations. What we have to do is make sure that we have the right kind of balance of tactics and strategy. And in this case, it looks like the decision was made to use U.S. forces in conjunction, of course, with our standard and very well done intelligence gathering and air support.

O'BRIEN: And what that left us with is 16 casualties, one fatality. Are we to expect additional casualties, as I see -- as encounters continue and will we see more action involving the 101st Airborne, actually infantry troops on the ground?

HARRISON: Well, there probably will be more action of the 101st, but I suspect that there will be a lot of caution. This one casualty, of course, stands out spectacularly even though throughout this entire environment and throughout this entire war we've had a very low casualty rate. Tragic for the individuals involved, but in the big picture, certainly a low casualty rate. But we are a very casualty adverse force and I think you'll see the Pentagon trying to work to avoid U.S. casualties.

O'BRIEN: A new weapon involved in all this, this thermo-barrack bomb. Explain that to us and how it might be effective in dealing with people holed up in caves.

HARRISON: Well, the thermal-barrack gives you a clue as to how it operates. It's a fuel rich weapon. The key to it is the time of detonation and it creates thermal effects and cursor effects. So it kills both -- or it does it work, does its destruction and influence. Both with the heat and the pressure, is the key after the heat has been generated. And in a confined area such as a cave, it can really generate some intense pressures.

O'BRIEN: Well, so, it -- this is something that the U.S. military technologists, if you will, engineers, scientists only recently discovered, as we look at some images. They're quite dramatic. And this was sort of rushed to the front, if you will. I guess it doesn't seem like leading edge technology. How did this come to be?

HARRISON: Well, it rushed to the front, but it wasn't rushed into development. This thing has been under development for at least a decade.

O'BRIEN: OK.

HARRISON: And it -the key to it again is the fusing, the ability to get it into the place where you want it to detonate and figure out the structure of the cave or the place that you're going into and have it detonate at that very precise point. And this is some pretty detailed physics.

O'BRIEN: All right, General George Harrison, thank you very much. More to come in this war on terrorism not just in other locations but also in Afghanistan and we would be foolish, I suppose, to presume it's over there. Thank you for being with us. As always, we appreciate it.

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