Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Sunday Morning

'Reporter's Notebook': What's Happening in the Middle East

Aired March 17, 2002 - 08:34   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's move on to something a little more serious, the conflict in the Middle East and the latest on that. We're taking a page of the "Reporter's Notebook" of Senior International Correspondent Sheila MacVicar, who is with us in Jerusalem this morning.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. She's ready to answer many of your questions we've received -- hi, Sheila.

SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kyra. Good morning, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Good to see you.

We've got a lot of e-mails. Let's get right to them. David Small is in New Jersey. He has this: "It seems that every time Israel pulls out of Palestinian territory in good faith another suicide bomber strikes. Either Arafat supports these suicide bombers or has absolutely no control." This is a central question, isn't it, Sheila?

MACVICAR: That is indeed a central question, and something that the negotiators here have gone around and around for many months. Now, at this point, Israel has pulled all of its tanks back out of West Bank cities, Palestinian cities, except for the city of Bethlehem, where they remain in large numbers. Israel says that it carries out those actions in order to defend itself, protect its security, go after wanted people on its wanted lists, check for weapons, check for bomb labs.

In fact, the results of what Israel has achieved over the course of the last two weeks in particular are a little more difficult to ascertain. It's hard to get the Israeli defense forces to tell you precisely whom they have arrested and tell you if anyone that they have arrested has been on their wanted list. However, that said, we go through a period of time where as -- and it has to also be said, you have to remember that these suicide attacks have taken place even while Israel has been in Palestinian cities. So that's not -- there's not exactly a quid pro quo or a cause and effect, you know, that Israel pulls back and you get another suicide bomber. It's a little -- it's considerably more complicated than that.

But there is big security concern here on the part of Israelis. And the central issue of whether or not Mr. Arafat directly controls or has some knowledge of -- or tacitly controls those who commit violence against Israeli civilians, is indeed a central question.

PHILLIPS: All right, Sheila.

Another e-mail coming here. "What really, though, is the reason for this latest round of attacks in the West Bank? And what does Mr. Zinni hope to achieve? Will he really get through to these people?" Kirk Abrahams wants to know.

MACVICAR: Well, we heard from President Bush, who sent General Zinni back here. What President Bush has said about General Zinni's mission here is that he will fight through to the finish -- the finish being achievement of a cease-fire and movement beyond a cease-fire back into a political process that would lead towards negotiations that would bring everybody back to the peace table. That's what General Zinni is trying to do. That said, General Zinni has been here twice before and at both times has left in frustration, mostly because the situation has become such over the course of time that he has been here in the past that it was clear he could not then make progress. So in terms of what General Zinni wants, that's what he's trying to do.

The obstacles that are currently in his way -- and assuming that both parties sincerely want to move towards a cease-fire, the obstacles that remain in the immediate way, the immediate problem, are, first off, the incidences of violence which have taken place today. And, second, the problem of Israeli tanks remaining in that Palestinian of Bethlehem. That's a problem, because the Palestinians have said, as have -- and the United States has, sort of enforce that, if you will, in terms of its phone calls and comments toward the Israelis. That those tanks have got to get out of area A, which is supposed to be specifically controlled by Palestinians. And that they -- in order for there to be any kind of direct talks between Israelis and Palestinians, whether on the issue of security or on the issue of politics.

O'BRIEN: All right, Sheila.

Let's do another e-mail, shall we? This one comes from Jeffrey (ph). "What is Palestinian "Leader" Yasser Arafat's official title?" He puts leader in quotes, by the way. "And why is he never referred to by anything other than leader? If this title was obtained via democratic means, when is the next election?" That comes from a person by the name of kibearth@aol.com.

MACVICAR: Well, you're right. I mean, technically, Mr. Arafat's title is President of the Palestinian National Authority -- President of the Palestinian Legislative Council. The state of Palestine does not exist. It is something that Israelis and Palestinians have committed themselves to. We heard last week that the United States has said in terms of a U.N. resolution, the end result of all of these discussions and negotiations should be a state of Palestine living next door to a state of Israel.

Israel has said that it will move towards what it calls final status negotiations, which would include the creation, it is presumed, of an independent state of Palestine only after a political process takes place. And so that's the reason why we sort of fudge what Mr. Arafat's title is. In fact, he is not the president of a state. He is the president of an authority elected by the Palestinian people. And until, and when, the Palestinian National Authority achieves statehood, then one presumes his title will also change. And if he is then the leader, then he will be called president.

PHILLIPS: Sheila, we're getting some phone calls now. Hugo is on the line from Miami. What's your question, Hugo?

HUGO: Yes, hi Sheila.

I would like to ask you, is the West Bank and Gaza too small for the Palestinians, when we know that the typical family of those territories is about 10 to 12 people, kids, children per family, compared to the Israelis, who have a population of one and a half children per family? Don't you think it's going to be a temporary peace? It cannot be a lasting peace because it will become like Kosovo and the Serb.

MACVICAR: Well I think the issue here is sort of what's possible. And family size -- and there is an issue of demographic pressure, but that is not going to change any of the geographic realities or the political realities on the ground. What is in discussion, when political discussion resume, are control over the area known as the Gaza Strip and control over the area known as the West Bank. And within those territories there is some room for discussion about how much land is handed back, how much land remains under Israeli control. Is there a land swap? In other words, do the Israelis keep a chunk of the West Bank in exchange for giving up another chunk of territory somewhere else?

All of those things are in play. But whatever the demographic pressure is, it will not adjust the land size.

O'BRIEN: All right, Sheila. I'm afraid I'm going to put you on the spot here a little bit with this one. But we get this e-mail or a variation of it so frequently that I'm going to throw it to you, and give it your best shot.

"Do you think that CNN has a pro Palestinian bias at times in its reporting? I spent a year studying in Israel and find that unless you have spent some time in the heart of the conflict, it's very difficult to comprehend it objectively." And that from Peter. I should mention -- and this is probably good news for us, Sheila -- we do get a fair number of people who say we're pro Israel, as well as pro Palestinian. So I guess that means we're doing our job. But if you could address the issue of maintaining objectivity in a very difficult situation?

MACVICAR: While Peter's view is obviously that CNN's reporting is pro Palestinian, I have to tell you that there are many other people who think that CNN's reporting is pro Israeli. And you should know that the phones light up in the bureau here very, very frequently.

That said, it is extremely difficult. This is a very difficult conflict. It effects people in their hearts. People feel -- both Israelis and Palestinians -- very passionately about this subject. The level of debate, certainly within Israel -- in fact, if you go and you take a look online at some of the Israeli newspapers, you will see that the level of debate within Israel society sometimes even goes beyond the kind of reporting that we are comfortable doing.

And it is -- it is simply, I think, a reflection of those passions and the deeply held views of people. This is a highly politicized environment; a highly politicized conflict, and highly organized people on both sides who are very eager to make their points. And I think it's very difficult to come at this if you are part of one party or the other party and think that you are being treated exactly fairly. We try to do our best.

O'BRIEN: All right. Sheila MacVicar, I appreciate you taking that tough question. It's a hard one, because it's difficult depending on what prism you see this whole conflict from. You get a different perspective on what our reporting is all about.

Sheila MacVicar in Jerusalem, I appreciate you taking those e- mails and calls.

PHILLIPS: We've had so many of them.

O'BRIEN: And viewers, we appreciate your assistance in making this segment possible. As always, great questions.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com