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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview with Joe Madison, Kevin Miller
Aired March 24, 2002 - 08:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, now let's turn now to our regular segment, where we have an opportunity to hopefully avoid a food fight, but nevertheless here a debate between two outspoken observers, shall we say. That's putting it lightly I guess.
Our guest in Washington syndicated radio talk show host, Joe Madison. Good to see you, Joe.
JOE MADISON, SYNDICATED RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Good, and I have no food in my hands.
O'BRIEN: No food. That's good to see. Good to see, no beanie weenies, none of that stuff. In Atlanta from WERC radio, which is out of Birmingham, Alabama, talk show host Kevin Miller who's just on the other side of the room from me now, but we do that just to keep a kind of even playing field. It's nothing personal about that.
KEVIN MILLER, WERC RADIO: I understand.
O'BRIEN: I know you took a shower this morning.
MILLER: With soap.
O'BRIEN: Good to have you both with us.
MILLER: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: We got to talk about the Middle East because we've been talking about it for so much this morning. I think it's only fair we continue on that discussion. What -- Joe, let's begin with you. Should Dick Cheney be getting on Air Force Two and going to visit Yasser Arafat right now? Does that feel right to you?
MADISON: I think -- I will tell you what most of my audience thinks, and yes he should. But again, what concerns me is what I heard this morning from your panel, and that is that the visit would be nothing more than some frolic anyway. I think it's not only a question of visiting or meeting with Arafat, but what do you go with in hand to enhance his political position?
Arafat has an internal war going on not being able to control, and then on the other hand, you also have the concern about the aggression of the Israelis against his police force. You ask Arafat on one hand to control the militants in his organization. On the other hand, his police force for the most part has been decimated by attacks against it. So what does he control them with? And I think that's the real issue. If you go, with something to enhance and make the negotiations balance.
O'BRIEN: All right. Well, Kevin, you know going is one thing but we're talking about nuts who are willing to put on a bomb belt and go and blow themselves up. I mean, maybe no one could control this sort of behavior. I suppose the flipside of all this is, if Yasser Arafat is not in control, maybe no one at that level in the U.S. administration should be meeting with him at this point. What do you think?
MILLER: Miles, that's a good point when you talk about the devil you know versus the devil you don't know. The problem here is that the world has changed forever, and America has to look out for itself. People across the country, in Birmingham, Alabama, and here on CNN, talk about this all the time.
I was fascinated by the Reporter's Notebook, people talking about the different implications. Let's look at today's front page of the Atlanta Journal Constitution, the New York Times, now Arafat's tied to the Iranians, one of the worst sponsors of terrorism.
Why would Dick Cheney go and talk to this mastermind, king of the nuts if you will, and offer him anything? We should give him the stick. He's had the carrot too long. He hasn't delivered. Too many people have died over there and he needs to get the message that we're not going to give him the carrot anymore. He's going to get the stick. And if we can't deal with him, we're going to deal with someone who will give us the results, which is a Middle East peace that is agreeable to this country.
O'BRIEN: Joe, it's interesting to me that that peace in the Times, that Kevin is referring to, comes out on this Sunday when there's a lot of talk of a Cheney visit, kind of leaked out by Israeli intelligence sources, some U.S. intelligence sources, certainly makes it difficult for Cheney to make a trip if that allegation is out there and is fresh.
Having said all that too, certainly when the President said "axis of evil," maybe this is what he knew in a classified way and just couldn't share with us.
MADISON: Maybe he did, but again, let me go back to a couple of points. One, people who strap bombs to themselves, you are looking at the frustration of despair. Anyone who has visited the Middle East knows the despair that exists in the Gaza Strip.
Number two, American people, I think, are a little confused, some not all. Obviously Kevin and I aren't. But a lot of people are.
O'BRIEN: It goes to that thing, gentlemen. It goes to that thing.
MADISON: But a lot of us, a lot of people are because how, on one hand, in the interest of the United States after 9/11, could we cooperate with Iran and then turn around a few months later and say, "oh well, well they're one of the triplets in the evil empire?"
People are saying, "well what is it" and the United States gives the impression that it will deal with the devil if it's in its best interest.
O'BRIEN: Well, I mean nations, Kevin I hope you agree with this, nations really don't have friends, they have self-interest.
MILLER: That's right.
O'BRIEN: Don't forget who's (inaudible) it is. Would you go along with that, Kevin?
MILLER: I would agree with Joe and it's good to have agreement on Sunday morning.
O'BRIEN: We appreciate that.
MILLER: Which is rare for Joe and I, but I will say this though, that the United States has to look out for itself and that means protecting its staunchest ally in the region, which is Israel. Now you can't go to a mall in Israel anymore. I heard today coming in that actually they're going to carry cell phones and weapons into synagogues over the Passover. Why? Because they're living in fear.
O'BRIEN: Wow. Yes, that's -- let's leave it at that.
MADISON: I've been to Israel and it is obviously a very dangerous part of the world and a lot of Americans will tell you that there are a lot of other, more dangerous, places in the world. For example, like the Sudan where two million people have lost their lives in 10 years. And people say, "well wait a minute. Why isn't there interest there?" So, it's a very, as we know, a complicated situation.
But what I want to see the United States government do is be an honest broker, and the only way that you can do that, and I read a speech by Senator Byrd from the floor of the Senate, where he was suggesting along with Trent Lott, where they agreed that, you know, maybe we ought to start thinking about pulling back financial resources until both sides agree to sit down.
O'BRIEN: All right, gentlemen, I have done a terrible job with time management, and the producers in the control room are going "so what's new?" But let's briefly, give me 30 seconds on the McCain- Feingold, can you, on campaign finance reform? That's a big moment in American political history. Kevin, what's your take on it?
MILLER: Oh, it's horrible. It's unconstitutional. The Supreme Court has already ruled that speech -- or money is speech, number one. Number two, it's very scary again, listening on my way in, the idea that even if the court does rule that money is under free speech, that McCain-Feingold does not stand, that we would hope the judges could do something with the First Amendment. It's a slippery slope here, Miles, and you heard it here first.
O'BRIEN: I have a feeling Joe disagrees.
MADISON: Oh, absolutely. This is what the American people wanted. Unfortunately, nothing's going to change for this election cycle, but new rules are going to be written with the Federal Election Commission, the FEC, and so finally, and I'm very surprised at Kevin because his side is the one that complains about the last minute ads that the NAACP ran.
Of course, my side complains about the ads like Willy Horton, and hopefully we won't see any of that, and the little guy will have an opportunity to have access now to members of Congress. But I don't think most people know the difference between hard money and soft money.
O'BRIEN: All right, quickly, you guys watching the Oscars tonight?
MILLER: Sure.
MADISON: Oh, yes.
O'BRIEN: All right.
MADISON: Go Denzel and Holly.
MILLER: I would be very disappointed, very disappointed.
O'BRIEN: I'll leave. I will definitely go with you on this, the latter. Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate you keeping it very civil and keeping the food out of it and we'll have you back any old time here on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.
MADISON: Thank you.
MILLER: Thank you, Miles.
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