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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview with Phil Saviano, Helen Morrison

Aired March 24, 2002 - 09:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: We've been talking about Cardinal Egan's letter and talking about the alleged victims of abuse that would be given medical and psychological and in some cases financial help. Well is that the best way to aid victims? Well, we're going to talk about that with our guest today. Phil Saviano joins us now from Boston. He's with the survivor's network for those abused by priests, and also with us, Helen Morrison. She's in Chicago. She is a psychiatrist. We thank you both very much for joining us this morning.

PHIL SAVIANO, SURVIVORS NETWORK FOR THOSE ABUSED BY PRIESTS: Good morning.

HELEN MORRISON, PSYCHIATRIST: Good morning.

PHILLIPS: And, of course, we were talking about the Archbishop of New York saying that he will not tolerate the sexual abuse of children by priests and that was the letter that I was referring to. I apologize. I was kind of speaking in tongues there for a moment. But anyway, Phil let's start with you and talk about, you were 11 years old when you experienced the abuse by a priest. What prompted you to come forward?

SAVIANO: Well, I didn't come forward until I turned 40, so it took me many, many years of thinking about this and deciding what to do. And what prompted me, this was back in 1992, which was to a certain extent the pioneer days, and I was prompted by hearing about two other men that came forward in New Mexico and said that they were molested by the same priest, 10 years after I had my own experience with him.

And I suddenly realized that this priest was never pulled out of service, had undoubtedly molested many kids over a very long career, and I just - I realized that something had to be done and I needed to go public with my story.

PHILLIPS: Helen, it just seems that religion has been so manipulated in this whole entire situation that's taking place. What motivates someone to go to this type of extreme?

MORRISON: In the context of hiding, do you mean?

PHILLIPS: Yes. MORRISON: Well, I would say that one of the tenants that seems to be very prevalent within that religious group is the prevalence to keep secrets. I think the biggest thing, of course, is confession where you're supposed to be able to say whatever is on your mind or your soul and whatever you do or say within that context is kept completely secret.

I also think that one other thing is that the children who are brought up within that religious tenant are taught to trust wholly, totally, and completely whatever the leaders, a priest or even a nun may have to say, and that the priest himself is considered to be a God, a representative of God, acting in the name of God, capable of doing things only because he is functioning within the context of representing God. And, I think those two factors taken together really have contributed a lot to the sense of this really truly hidden but very long term problem.

PHILLIPS: That certainly leads well into this e-mail. Phil and Helen, we've been receiving a lot of e-mails. This one comes from Larry Darby from Montgomery, Alabama. "Catholic priests and bishops have molested women and children for centuries. Such holy men prove without a doubt that religion does not make one ethical. In fact, religion can be described as the root of all evil. Further, there will be no peace in the world so long as governments are guided by religious thoughts." So what are your feelings on that?

SAVIANO: Well, I think, you know, to say that religion is the root of all evil I think is a bit extreme. I know that many survivors, for example, who were molested by members of the clergy find themselves drifting through life without any sort of a spiritual anchor, and for these survivors it's a great void in their lives.

So I don't think that many of us would say that it's the root of all evil. Perhaps the transgressions and the mistakes of the hierarchy of religion can be criticized, but religion itself I don't have a problem with.

PHILLIPS: Helen, I'm going to direct this question to you. "One issue raised this week in all the turmoil of child abuse in the priesthood, was whether or not the celibacy rule in the priesthood should be changed. Am I on another planet or aren't pedophilia and a normal sex life mutually exclusive?"

MORRISON: Well, I think you're not on another planet and I think a lot of people are confusing celibacy, the right to have a sexual relationship, with pedophilia. A pedophile is an individual who is seriously mentally disturbed. Celibacy is not going to change the pedophile. It's not going to make someone become a pedophile, and it's certainly not going to be able to cure someone who's a pedophile. There's a complete - it's night and day, and that whole question of celibacy is absolutely moot.

PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Phil.

SAVIANO: Kyra, may I respond to that? I think that one thing that's important to note is that so many priests, the priest in my case, Father David Holley (ph), Father John Geoghan (ph), who's been the subject of headlines in Boston here for the past year, both of these men were molesting children from their very first assignment.

I don't think that trying to lead a celibate lifestyle will turn you into a child molester, but I do believe that the priesthood has been a very good hiding place. And in the case of these two priests, you have to say "well, what brought them to the priesthood to begin with? Was it a religious calling or was it something else?"

PHILLIPS: And you've mentioned molestation and pedophilia. Homosexuality do you believe also is a hiding place for homosexuality?

SAVIANO: Absolutely. Yes, I do, and I think one element of that question is, for example, because the church has historically been rather hostile to homosexuals, if a priest himself is a homosexual and he happens to hear that one of his colleagues is molesting a child, I think that that priest is going to think twice about turning in his colleague because he has his own secret that he's trying to keep under wraps. It seems like the priesthood is sort of wrapped in this tight web of secrecy and all the secrets seem to have to do about sex.

PHILLIPS: Here's an interesting e-mail from Dave in Pennsylvania: "I'm a priest who has talked to two Protestants in the last two weeks, who said they were abused by ministers when they were children. Why does the media concentrate on the Catholic Church about these abuse issues? Do you think the trial lawyers could do some pro bono work on cases in other churches that do not have deep pockets?" That's interesting. What do you think, Helen?

MORRISON: Well, I think first of all many lawyers will do pro bono work. It's just a matter of people going to law firms who have set aside hours for pro bono work and whether the law firms are going to permit that to be done is really a question separate from what we're talking about.

But pedophiles are everywhere. They're in summer camps. They're in coaches' locker rooms. They're in high schools. They're in grade schools, and it's not just the Catholic Church, obviously. It's everywhere. It just so happens that this is the topic of the moment, and if it had happened in the Presbyterian Church, someone would be asking the question of "why aren't we looking at the Catholic Church?"

PHILLIPS: I know Phil...

SAVIANO: Well...

PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Phil.

SAVIANO: In my experience as leader of the Survivor's Network here in New England, I have to be honest and say that most of the people that I hear from were molested within the Catholic religion. I do from time to time hear from Methodists and Protestants and Baptists. But the difference is, I think that in those faiths the molester is dealt with properly early on and they're not recycled and sent to another parish and kept in the job essentially for many, many years so that they can molest many, many children. That's one of the key differences I think.

MORRISON: But I think another issue that you're talking about too is there's a great concentration of Catholics within the northeast, and if we took the statistics across the United States and we look at the cities that are being named as hiding these perpetrators, I think you would note that the number of Catholics are much higher, but I also think that it's not just the Catholic Church's way of handling the perpetrator. The policies within all types of organizations are very frequently to keep things hidden for as long a period of time as they can until the story is broken by someone like you.

PHILLIPS: Phil and Helen, thanks so much for your thoughts. I'm going to leave you with this e-mail. This comes from Susan. "The Pope's recent statement about sexual abuse completely misses the point. The problem is that the Catholic hierarchy covered up the sexual abuse, placing the career of priests and the reputation of the church ahead of the welfare of children."

Phil, I know you've been very outspoken about the Pope needing to react, and from a psychiatrist's point of view, Helen no doubt people need to talk about this and address this and deal with it from the very beginning. We sure appreciate both of you being with us. Phil Saviano, once again that's Survivor's Network for Those Abused by Priests, and Helen Morris, psychiatrist joining us out of Chicago. Thank you to both of you.

SAVIANO: Thank you very much, Kyra.

MORRISON: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: All right and thanks for the e-mails.

PHILLIPS: Oh, wonderful, great stuff.

O'BRIEN: It's great input. We appreciate it as always.

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