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CNN Sunday Morning

Sharon Announces End of First Stage of Operation Defensive Shield

Aired April 21, 2002 - 11:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Just a short time ago in the Middle East Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon announced the end of the first stage of operation Defensive Shield. He said the present phase of the battle against terrorism is over. Minutes ago, Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres talked about the crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHIMON PERES, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: Once, the military operation is nearing its end. What we are interesting is now talking the political process because our purpose was not to win a war. Our purpose was to open a door for peace and in my talks with the secretary (UNITELLIGIBLE) was the main subject.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well overnight Israeli tanks and troops pull out of Nablus and parts of Ramallah in the West Bank and military officials announce the arrest of a Palestinian militia leader suspected of several shootings and bombings. Despite Mr. Sharon's announcements Israeli tanks continue to surround Yasser Arafat's headquarters in Ramallah. CNN's Nic Robertson is in Ramallah and just a short while ago we're told he tried to get to Yasser Arafat's compound. He didn't get far. Israeli troops fired warning shots with machine guns, stun grenades and tear gas. It all went toward Nic and his crew. No one was hurt and Nic joins us now live with the details. Nic, what happened?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Today we were trying to get into the compound of Yasser Arafat to interview the Palestinian leader, along with a group of peace activists. Now there were about 12 of the peace activists, already about 26 of them inside the compound, Yasser Arafat's compound in Ramallah. The group of the 12 managed to get in. The others, along with the journalists who were with them weren't able to get in and were forced to move back.

This an indication of the high security level around the Palestinian leader's compound. The Israeli government has said that there are men inside Yasser Arafat's compound that they would like to try for the killing of an Israeli minister late last year. And until those men are handed over, to the Israeli government for trial, the security around Yasser Arafat's compound remain in place. However, elsewhere around in Ramallah, apart from the immediate neighborhood, around Palestinian leader's compound, elsewhere in Ramallah, there has been daylight here for about 11 hours and throughout that time, since the Israeli troops pulled out overnight, people have been coming back out on the street. The streets are bustling now. People have been repairing their businesses, clearing up the refuses in the street and we're in the center of Ramallah right now and there is a very busy traffic jam here as most people seem to be taking the opportunity to come out and look around at the situation, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Nic, I hope you can still hear me all right. You know we're looking at this video. It's quite disturbing. Can you -- what are the Israeli soldiers saying to you, their reason for keeping you out of the area? Is it security risks? Do they just not want any reporters near Yasser Arafat?

ROBERTSON: At the moment, that definitely appears to be the situation. Yasser Arafat's compound has been tightly controlled by Israeli army tanks and armored personnel carriers since December last year and it has been off limits in the last couple of weeks to journalists trying to get in there. A peace - a group of peace activists were able to get in a few weeks ago. They stayed inside the compound with Yasser Arafat. And during today, those peace activists tried to get more representatives in, and the security called on the Israeli troops around the compound there to not let any more journalists inside or any more peace activists. And that's why they're preventing us getting in there. It has to be said, they were not firing at us. They were merely warning shots to warn us of their presence and to impede our movement and to try and get us to turn around. They weren't actually firing directly at us, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Is Yasser Arafat -- do you know, Nic, is he still not receiving electricity and water? What are his conditions like right now?

ROBERTSON: We don't know, to be perfectly honest, the current situation for Yasser Arafat inside the compound. That was one of the reasons we were trying to get in there to ascertain that. In recent days, when Colin Powell last visited, we were told that they had had their water restored, and they had had their mobile phones switched on at some point in that area. However, they have been saying over the recent weeks inside that compound, that for much of the time they have not had running water. They have not had electricity. And again, it was for that reason that we were trying to get in to ascertain the Palestinian leader's reaction to the latest political situation, but also to the physical condition of all the people staying inside the compound there Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Yes you tend to wonder what they think about the overnight - the Israeli tanks and troops pulling out of Nablus and parts of Ramallah. Any word from anybody from within the compound on those latest developments?

ROBERTSON: No, we have had no response or word from anyone inside that compound. However, Palestinian officials we have spoke to who live near that compound, very near, say they even are not able to leave their houses because in the immediate vicinity of the compound they have been told that the curfew in Ramallah is still in place and that they're not able to leave their homes. And for that reason, they say they're not able to get information from the - from Yasser Arafat or any of his close colleagues inside the compound. They say that there is not - there is no information coming out to them at this time either, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: I can't help but see the billboard behind your head. I know you're standing in downtown Ramallah. And I see this billboard with Yasser Arafat. Nic, do you know what that says? And is that graffiti that I see that's been spray-painted on there?

ROBERTSON: (UNITELLIGIBLE) Yasser Arafat, in that billboard, is saying to the Palestinian people, if you want your future, then you only - if you want it, then you - then you can have it, but you can have your future - you can have your future. However, what has been sprayed on there is graffiti that appears to have been sprayed on by the Israeli troops when they were here. They say, mother, mother, mother run away, run away because this special Israeli unit is coming in here. And obviously, early today, the Palestinians tried to spray over that graffiti. But this is a poster advertising if you will, Palestinian unity and it has been sprayed over, apparently by Israeli troops trying to scare Palestinians, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Yes, Nic Robertson, obviously, the billboard and the video you brought to us a real reality check on how tense things still remain, despite Secretary Powell's visit, and even the words out of the Middle East today. Do you agree? It just - it doesn't seem it has - it has made any change?

ROBERTSON: At this time, for the people of Ramallah, it does appear to have brought a level of change, because for the last several weeks, they have been forced to stay inside their buildings during a curfew. So it has brought a new level of hope to people here. They have been saying through these weeks they wanted their freedom. They wanted to be able to leave their compounds. But what they look for now is a final political solution, if you will, not an interim solution, but also a means to help rebuild the Palestinian Authority here.

Many Palestinians, including negotiators who have been involved in talks here, believe that what Israel has been doing in this process has been trying to diminish the authority of the Palestinian Authority, by destroying some of its institutions, by damaging, for example, the education ministry and various other ministries. And what Palestinians here say that they are looking for is for the rebuilding of the Palestinian institutions to see the Palestinian Authority regain some authority, but also to see -- to see a way where a final political solution can be agreed so they can see what their leaders are taking them towards, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: That's a positive word. You say signs of hope -- that is - that is good news. All right Nic, we just want to roll the video one more time. If you could just, for those folks just tuning in, these pictures are pretty intense. Tell us again what happened here as you tried to enter Yasser Arafat's compound.

ROBERTSON: Kyra, I'm having a little trouble hearing you at this time -- if you - if you could ask me the question again. It's very busy here now in the middle of Ramallah.

PHILLIPS: Absolutely, understandable, and I apologize for all the technical difficulties. We've been working so fast to get you on the air and these pictures. We're rolling the video, once again, that you just fed into us, Nic. Could you just set the scene for our viewers now who are just tuning in, as to what happened when you tried to enter Yasser Arafat's compound?

ROBERTSON: Yes, absolutely, Kyra. These -- about 12 peace activists tried to get into Yasser Arafat's compound. What they tried to do was circle around it and approach the Israeli security ordinance (ph) from an angle that the Israeli army troops - they couldn't see them coming and then try and run into the compound. And they climbed up a final barricade, right on the edge of the compound, climbed over some barbed wire there and tried to run across about a 50-meter open space where there was an Israeli army tank parked in there. And as they did that, Israeli army soldiers, providing the security around Yasser Arafat's compound, rushed in. They threw stun grenades. They threw tear gas grenade, at one point, and fired machine gunfire. Now the -- none of the peace activists we could see were injured.

There were about 12 of them. Six, we understand, managed to get inside Yasser Arafat's building. The Israeli army soldiers just tackled some of the peace activists, bore (ph) them to the ground, turned them around, sent them out. The gunfire that was going on, while it was very loud, while it was also in our immediate vicinity, it wasn't directed at us. It was merely to try and encourage people to leave. And the grenades that were thrown were stun grenades. These provide a very loud noise, a very loud bang, if you will, and a flash and a few small fragments fly out from them, but they're not grenades that are designed to hurt - to injure people directly. The tear gas used as crowd control, again, thrown by the Israeli trooped to try to get the peace activists to turn around and go back, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And, Nic, I have to ask this question, just for sake of fairness here. Obviously, you're trying to enter the compound to get word with Yasser Arafat over developments in the area, and developments within the peace process. But the peace activists, do you feel in any way at all that they were trying to provoke anybody, or did they just walk in, not really making a scene, trying to enter the compound to also talk with Yasser Arafat?

ROBERTSON: No, I think we should be clear, Kyra. If you look at our pictures, we were behind the group of peace activists. The reason some of them got in and we didn't, was that the ones that got in were at the front of the group going in. We felt it was important for us to try and reach Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian leader, who the Palestinians around us here in Ramallah look to for direction. We thought it was important to get his reaction to the troop pullouts in the West Bank. We thought it was important to get his reaction to the current situation that the security around his compound will be maintained until the men inside there, Israel wants to bring to court are handed over.

We want to get his reaction to that and also find out the humanitarian situation for him and the other people in the compound with him. So we were not provoking the situation. We were merely filming something that was going on and trying, at the same time, to get inside the compound. So we were not making this happen. We were merely observing a situation that was unfolding around us, albeit, in our very, very immediate vicinity, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And I want to ask you, too, the question, Nic. You do feel - you do feel safe? You feel - you feel secure in this area right now, despite the video that we're seeing?

ROBERTSON: Absolutely. It was clear to me when I saw none of the peace activists falling to the ground from gunshot wounds, when I saw that only stun grenades and tear gas was being used, it was clear to me that the Israeli soldiers could have used a higher level of violence had they chosen to. They could have chosen to fire directly at the peace activists and they didn't. And for that reason I did not feel physically threatened. I did feel somewhat intimidated by the situation. It was a very, as you can see, a very chaotic situation and important to keep a clear head. But I knew from what I could see happening around me, that the bullets were not being aimed directly at us and providing we followed the instructions of the soldiers, which is what we did, when they told us to turn around and leave, we turned around and left - provided we followed their instructions, then we would be relatively safe Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Our Nic Robertson, downtown Ramallah there with those recent pictures as he tried to enter the compound where Yasser Arafat remains holed up.

Let's get the White House view or the latest developments in the Middle East. For that we turn to senior White House correspondent John King. John, your first reaction, I guess, to Nic's report and these pictures that we just got.

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well just suppose those pictures and the situation on the ground in Ramallah, Kyra, with what you have the Israeli Foreign Minister, Shimon Peres, saying at the very open of the show - Foreign Minister Peres saying that he hopes they can move from this military situation into security cooperation and then ultimately into a political dialogue. Well he might be, perhaps, more optimistic than many in his own government. Many at the White House question whether Prime Minister Sharon, the Israeli leader, is prepared to get into a political dialogue with the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, a man Mr. Sharon has described as irrelevant and as a terrorist. The continued Israeli military presence around Yasser Arafat's government compound, again, in the Palestinian territories offends the Palestinians, has some outcry around the international arena as well. So you have a situation on the ground that does not lend itself, at least not yet, to any political process and indeed not even greater security cooperation.

Still at the White House, they're trying to build small steps here, if you will, of hope. Saw Secretary Powell this morning saluting, applauding the Israeli pullout from most of the Palestinian territories. He says the United States will continue to work to try to broker a diplomatic compromise to the two remaining problems. One what you just saw, the Israeli military presence around the Arafat compound in Ramallah. Also around the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem where some Palestinians remain holed up inside. As to the question of whether we can get to a political dialogue in the short term, the administration certainly would like that. And Secretary Powell saying in a taped interview for CNN's "LATE EDITION" that will air later today, saying one of the main obstacles right now is Mr. Sharon's distrust of Mr. Arafat. Secretary Powell saying in the days and weeks ahead, the Palestinian leader must demonstrate his commitment to peace.

PHILLIPS: Our senior White House correspondent John King.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: When I said to him, is that you have used terror and you have used violence to try to achieve you're goals. This is the time to try to stop moving in that direction. That will not lead you to your goals. This is the time to make a strategic decision and to use your position as leader of the Palestinian people, which the Palestinian people say you are and which I understand you are. Now you use that position to speak out against incitement, to speak out against violence, to speak out against terror, to tell your people that this is the time to use the good offices of the United States and the international community, the Madrid statement we put out, the U.N. resolutions that have become so powerful in recent weeks, to move toward a peaceful solution.

KING: You hear Secretary Powell there talking about his hopes for a peaceful solution. The administration also rushing to deal with some short-term problems. There's a humanitarian crisis in Jenin, the refugee camp where Israeli troops were in. Powell's deputy in the region, Ambassador Bill Burns, calling in what the secretary called a very disturbing report about the situation in that camp. Secretary Powell's aid saying more than 800 tents, water purification kits, disease control kits, and other humanitarian aid being rushed by the United States to the camp in Jenin - Kyra.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Senior White House correspondent John King. Thanks again John.

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