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CNN Sunday Morning
In Boston, Criticism Over Priest Sex Scandal Has Focused on Cardinal Law
Aired April 21, 2002 - 08:45 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: In Boston, criticism over the priest sex scandal has focused on Cardinal Bernard Law. The church leader says he will not step down in the face of accusations that he moved pedophile priests from parish to parish.
CNN's Brian Cabell give us some background.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just a few years ago, Cardinal Law, who is now 70, was considered perhaps the most influential Catholic in America.
Born in Mexico to a U.S. army colonel, educated at Harvard, Law was seen by some to even be a possible future pope.
CARDINAL BERNARD LAW, CATHOLIC CHURCH: I wish I could undo what I now see to have been mistakes. However, that is not a possibility.
CABELL (voice-over): Cardinal Law's world changed radically in the last year, as dozens of allegations of child abuse by priests in his archdiocese have been made public.
Worse for him has been the charge that he didn't do enough to stop it.
As a result, one of the brightest stars in the Catholic hierarchy has been dimmed.
He was ordained in 1961. His first parish assignment was in Mississippi at a time when the civil rights movement was first taking hold.
There, he gained a reputation as a leader for racial equality. He was courageous, some said. He was charismatic.
In 1973, he became a bishop in Missouri, where he was praised for setting up a center for Vietnamese refugees.
In 1984, he was named archbishop of Boston, one of the most prestigious posts in the American church.
A year later, he became a cardinal and a bit of a media celebrity. Radio shows welcomed him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any little trinkets from Rome, Your Eminence?
LAW: Listen, would you settle for a Cuban cigar
CABELL: He traveled extensively, to Cuba, where he met with Fidel Castro, to Mexico, where he consoled victims of a deadly earthquake, to Poland, to promote religious freedom for Christians and Jews. And frequently to the Vatican, where hes considered a loyal supporter of Pope John Paul II.
PROF. THOMAS GROOME, CATHOLIC CHURCH HISTORIAN: And, of course, some people, at least, interpreted that -- that when you travel that much and visit other cardinals in other cities, that maybe he had even higher ambitions, between Boston and heaven, there was one step in between.
LAW: Through Him, with Him, in Him, in the unity of the holy spirit.
CABELL: Though he didnt care much for labels, Cardinal Law has always been considered a conservative, an outspoken opponent of birth control and abortion.
LAW: We have eliminated the respect of human life from the moment of conception to the moment of birth.
CROWD (chanting): Not the church, not the state, women must decide our fate!
CABELL: His strong stance may have provoked loud opposition, but he never wavered. He believed, like the Pope, that he had to uphold the Catholic theology against changing cultural forces.
The one force he apparently didn't count on was outrage against the revelations of child sexual abuse by priests in his archdiocese.
For months, hes resisted taking full responsibility for it by stepping aside.
LAW: The relationship of the bishop to his diocese is signified by the ring he wears. And you dont walk away when the problem is difficult. That's when you need to be together.
CABELL: And he insists, despite the growing criticism and scandal, he will not walk away. He'll remain the leader of his flock.
Brian Cabell, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, U.S. Catholic cardinals are gathering in Rome for their unprecedented meeting on the sexual abuse crisis.
We'll discuss what this could mean for the church's future and we'll be taking your phone calls at 404-221-1855. We're joined now by two experts on American Catholicism.
From Durham, North Carolina, Prof. Kathleen Joyce and Prof. scott Appleby joins us from Indianan, and our own Michael Okwu has been covering this story. He's in Boston.
Hello to all of you. Thank you for being here.
All right, well, let's get right down to it.
We have received a number of e-mails, so let's begin with the first one.
This comes from Raymond in Rochester, New York: What kind of problem does the Vatican see and does the Vatican see itself as part of the problem? The question that begs to be asked by the cardinals is simply this: are we part of the problem? It is unlikely that the cardinals will ask this question. However, if they were to be so bold, I have no doubt that the pontiff would reassure them that the fault lies not with the hierarchy but with the disunity among priests and dissension among the faithful.
Scott, do you want to start with that?
SCOTT APPLEBY, CATHOLIC EXPERT: Well, how do you respond to that?
PHILLIPS: I know. Thats a lot of questions in one question.
APPLEBY: I think the answer is embedded in the question. But, I would be more optimistic, because I do know some of the bishops and cardinals and I realize that they've been shaken by this scandal.
And while they're not given over naturally to long bouts of self- criticism, many of us are not, I think they recognize there is a real problem with the way the hierarchy has mismanaged this scandal, and that it also touches matters of church governments in general.
There are all kinds of problems here, one of which is the lack of real authority on the part of the National Conference of Bishops. But there's also a deeper problem about the way in which the church does its business, apart from consultation with the laity, often in secrecy, keeping their own council and sometime not even talking to one another.
PHILLIPS: Kathleen, the Catholic church has a long tradition of holding itself above certain standards, yes?
KATHLEEN JOYCE, CATHOLIC EXPERT: Well, yes, definitely. And, you know, it's deeply embedded in the culture.
But I think that what we've seen in the past few days is -- on the part of at least several of the American cardinals-- a real -- whatever their motives -- I mean, it may be that they're purely just responding to the outcry that they're hearing from media and the laity in their diocese. But that there does seem to be a new readiness to tackle difficult questions.
Now, whether they're going to be able to do that and what kind of resistance they're going to meet from Vatican officials is another story.
PHILLIPS: Kathleen, the church doesnt, or, the Catholic church hasn't responded to trends normally, right? So this is really an out of the box movement here.
JOYCE: Well, that's really what puts this into a different category from other kinds of crises the church has faced.
There is -- it's deeply deep seeded tradition to hold itself above culture, apart from culture, and to -- there's deep resistance in the Vatican to the idea that they would be merely responding to public opinion polls, to -- and to be seen as being in a position where they can be influenced in that way. The fear is that this would lead to other kinds of movements asking for different kinds of changes that the church is even less willing to entertain.
PHILLIPS: And, Michael, you've been covering this story for sometime. Are you seeing some progressiveness happening here? Are you seeing leaders and other types within the church really moving toward a more open mind?
MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a good question, Kyra.
You know, the Catholic church and the culture and the way the priests think here collectively -- to effect any kind of change here, when you talk to priests, you get the idea that it's a bit like moving a huge oil tanker around. It's not a very easy task.
And, in fact, Ive been talking to a number of priests in the past few days and they tell me that it's a culture of secrecy. And it's something that they really need to move beyond. They are really feeling the pain and anguish of what has gone on here, of the victims who have suffered, of the families. And, essentially, off their actions.
They are now believing, many of the people that i have spoken to, that tell me that initially they were feeling this sense of defensiveness. That they said, why is there so much focus on the Catholic church and what we have failed to do or supposedly failed to do, when there is so much wrong in the world?
And then they realize, they say, that while there is a problem and we have to deal with it.
So i get the sense that this has been a real wakeup call. And when you talk to priests in the archdiocese here, they tell you that maybe in the end, that some good can come out of this.
PHILLIPS: Michael, scott and Kathleen, Im going to ask you to hold tight just for a second.
We're going to take a break. Well be back and continue our discussion.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Once again, we're continuing our discussion about the crisis in the Catholic church.
From Durham, North Carolina, Prof. Kathleen Joyce. Scott Appleby joins us from Indiana. And our own Michael Okwu, who has been covering this story in Boston.
We're going to get right to the next e-mail.
Kathleen, Im going to direct this towards you.
This comes from Ethel: The Pope is a sick, old man who has no business being in a position of deciding anything, least of all the criminal behavior of pedophiles in the church. Perhaps if the cardinals and bishops exchange their long dress-like robes for 21st century business suits, their sexual orientation wouldnt be so confusing. After all, the church is a business, isnt it?
JOYCE: Well, there are, again, a lot of issues in that one question.
Let me speak first to the Pope's health. From all reports that we get, and of course we can only rely on what we hear from the Pope's closest advisors, is that while his physical health is very fragile, he is mentally completely aware and involved in these discussions.
I think that what we see coming out of the meeting this week will give us more indication, or a better indication, of his condition.
Now, the issue about sexuality of priests and cardinals and their dress, that's the sort of thing that we've been hearing for along time.
It's been -- questions about the sexuality of priests based on their celibate lifestyle and the traditional clerical garb has long been an issue in terms of people questioning and being suspicious about their sexuality.
I would hesitate to associate pedophilia with their form of dress, so i guess i would disagree with Ethel on that.
PHILLIPS: All right. Let's move on to this one from New York. Gil asks -- actually, no, were going to go to number three.
Michael, Im going to direct this one toward you.
This comes from Ann in Pennsylvania: Regarding Cardinal Law in particular, cant he be held criminally responsible himself for directly enabling several pedophiles to continue their careers? Also, have any of these criminal priests been transferred to Asia and South America, and whats being done there to follow-up?
MICHAEL: Well, Ill take the last part first. I don't know that any of these priests have been transferred out of the country necessarily.
In terms of whether he should be held personally responsible for what's happened to some of the victims, it depends on how you look at it. It's a legal question and its a moral question.
Certainly, morally, many people would argue that the cardinal knew about what was going on here and that he made very little effort to actually change it. A couple of the priests here, some of whom have been accused of molesting over 130 kids, essentially, were transferred from parish to parish and all around the country.
And many people here, some of the more vocal critics, say that Cardinal Law should be held directly responsible for that in some shape or manner. But they are calling for his resignation.
In terms legally whether he should be held responsible, if you talk to lawyers, say they can't really do anything legal against him. Certainly not criminally.
They say that he was not directly responsible for the actions of those priests, and unless he collaborated in some way -- unless he knew that these priests were going to perform these actions and that he wanted those actions performed, they cannot in fact prosecute him.
What will happen in civil court is a whole other matter. There are several cases pending against him, some are occurring right now. And it is likely that there could very well be judgments against the archdiocese here.
They would have to pay out some money. They have already agreed to pay well over $30 million.
PHILLIPS: Scott Appleby, quickly, unfortunately, we're out of time. But I want to get Scott in here. One more last thought.
The role of celibacy, is it going to stay? Is it going to go?
APPLEBY: It's going to stay. There may be discussion of it in Rome, and an open exchange about the relationship between celibacy, if there is any, and the current scandals. But the current Pope is not going to make any changes in that policy.
Scott Appleby, Kathleen Joyce and Michael Okwu. Gosh, we've been getting so many e-mails. I wish we could keep going. We will continue to discuss this.
Thank you, all three of you, for being with us.
All right. Stay with us for special coverage this week of the Vatican meetings.
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