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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview with Richard Murphy
Aired April 28, 2002 - 07:07 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's get some perspective on the Middle East. Richard Murphy, former assistant secretary of state. He is also a senior fellow for the Middle East at the Council on Foreign Relations, joining us this morning from Houston.
Good to see you again, Mr. Murphy.
RICHARD MURPHY, FORMER U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be here.
O'BRIEN: All right, what's your sense on how things are going to shake out in Israel and will that U.N. team be in the Jenin refugee camp soon?
MURPHY: Well, on the second question, I'm sure they will be there soon. And it's not helpful to Israel's image to appear to be delaying. I understand its concern that it not be set up for a fall, but the more it's delayed, the more it looks like Israel is trying to hide something.
O'BRIEN: Let's flip that around for just one moment though. From the Israeli perspective, there is some concern that the deck is stacked against Israel on that team.
MURPHY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: What do you make of that argument?
MURPHY: Well, everything I know about the head of the team, who's the former president of Finland, this is a very judicious, very fair man. My understanding is that Israel is concerned there's not been enough of a presence allowed for military figures, men with military and combating terrorism in urban settings to be part of the team that would give a measure of understanding to why Israel acted as it did in that extremely crowded refugee camp in Jenin. And that if a man -- if a man brings only humanitarian experience to the table and doesn't have an appreciation for what the military, the situation they found themselves in, then the results are inevitably going to be slanted against Israel.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Murphy, do you think -- does Israel have something to hide?
MURPHY: The unfortunate thing is that's what it's looking like by -- through these delays and that's why I hope that this will be resolved in the coming hours, because Jenin was and is a disaster scene. Now, how did it happen, why did it happen, how many died, let the investigation get started.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk for a moment about this article this morning on the front page of "The New York Times" about U.S. potential war planning for an invasion of Iraq. I assume you've seen the piece. And it indicates that there might be some delay in the Bush administration mind on when an invasion of Iraq might occur and the reason is this issue that we're talking about right now, Arab- Israeli tensions, which are making it difficult for the U.S. to get its ducks in a row. Explain the linkage between these two issues.
MURPHY: Well, compared to the situation at the time of Desert Storm, 1990-91, during the war, everyone in the Arab world almost without exception had united under United States leadership in a coalition to drive Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait. It was a success, a remarkably quick and fortunately, for our side, a very -- very few lives were lost, very few casualties.
Today, 11 years later, there is the sense that something -- the job wasn't finished. Why is Saddam still there celebrating his birthday and defying world opinion in terms of developing his program of weapons of mass destruction? Is the United States serious, is the question out there, about disposing of the regime, about toppling the regime. And that question hasn't been settled in the minds of many of the Arab leaders.
O'BRIEN: How much of this could be a bit of bluster in the part of the administration, sort of a shot over the bow, if you will, for Saddam Hussein?
MURPHY: I don't think it's bluster, but I -- what I personally find strange is that we've been telegraphing our punch now ever since day one of the administration, in fact, some of the key figures in the administration were out there writing before President Bush came into office about he need to topple the regime of Saddam Hussein.
Talking about at this length now, of course, with Afghanistan having intervened and the crisis of September 11, it's understandable that the military wants to rebuild, reorganize, restock on its supplies. And it probably never was intended to be an instant action up against Saddam Hussein, but there's been too much talk out there and people are continuing to have their reservations. And today, the Arab world is much less certain about joining with the United States in any such campaign. The wall that exists between Arab-Israel and Gulf related issues, such as Iraq situation and Iran situation, simply isn't there. The wall is down.
O'BRIEN: Well, let's talk briefly. The time expiring, I would just like to get you on record on this. What is laid out in that piece today, in "The New York Times," is an invasion on a rather grand scale, a grand invasion with perhaps many tens of thousands of U.S. troops. Is that something that is appropriate? Will the U.S. support that and is that something that the U.S. should be risking? MURPHY: Well, I approach it from -- with yet another question, does the U.S. have the support, have the friends who are ready to open their countries to the presence of our troops in order to move into a campaign against Iraq. And that's one of the major questions facing President Bush today.
O'BRIEN: All right, Richard Murphy, thank you very much. As always, we appreciate your insights this morning.
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