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CNN Sunday Morning

Michael Popkin, Tine Thevenen

Aired May 05, 2002 - 09:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, should you ban your baby from your bed? The government warning letting infants sleep in adult beds can be dangerous. This is something a lot of parents talk about. For a look at the psychological impact as well as the possible injury which could occur we bring in a couple of guests.

Tine Thevenen is author of a book called "The Family Bed." She joins us from Minneapolis. Joining us in Atlanta is parenting specialist Dr. Michael Popkin. Good to have you with us.

DR. MICHAEL POPKIN, PARENTING SPECIALIST: Good morning. Good to be here.

O'BRIEN: Ms. Thevenen, let's talk about the family bed. What's good about it?

TINE THEVENEN, AUTHOR, "THE FAMILY BED": It makes babies happy. That sums it up. If we look at where babies have slept throughout history of mankind and throughout the majority of the world, babies sleep with their parents, have always done so, and it works very, very well with parents who are given the credit to know how to sleep with their babies.

O'BRIEN: In western culture this has not been the case. Why not?

THEVENEN: That's a long story. It started in about the late 1800s, where this idea came in that maybe babies shouldn't be sleeping with their children -- with their parents and so the idea came, it's better for children to sleep separately in a crib.

Ever since then there have been one theory after another about how to -- where should the child sleep, how do you get them to sleep? What do you do when they are crying. One book after another has come out. And I always like to go back way into space and look at the world and say, OK, what has been happening?

I see the world out there throughout history and see children sleeping with their parents. Always have been. Still are. And yet there are these various ideas that come out to say no, no, no, it's not a good idea. It's very dangerous. And yet we have always done it. Parents who are very comfortable with it and who know how to sleep with their children are doing it and it turns out very, very well. There are problem cases, but by and large, the rest of the world is doing it. We've always done it.

O'BRIEN: Let's get Dr. Popkin in. Is it a good idea?

POPKIN: Some parents can make it work for them. The emphasis on what she said is if you know what you're doing it probably can be effective. I don't think it's for nothing that we've moved away from that over the years. I think for most couples and most families, it probably works better for them to have their baby in a separate crib, even a separate room with monitoring and with a lot of nurturing at other times.

O'BRIEN: Who does it work better for, though, Dr. Popkin? For the parents who probably might be disturbed by having a baby in the bed, or does it work better for the child as well?

POPKIN: I'm not so concerned about what happens when you're talking about an infant. As the child gets older, one of our jobs as parents is to help kids become more and more independent, more self- confident. So I think those parents that let their kids continually sleep with them to come in every time they have a bad dream and get in their bed, and spend the night with them, those parents aren't really teaching their kids the courage they need to be independent in this kind of society.

I'd rather see a parent take the child back to their bed and nurture and comfort them there, put on a night light, spend some time there and saying the three words that I think kids often need to hear: See you tomorrow.

O'BRIEN: I suppose you could make a case that it's not likely you're going to have to go to college with your child to sleep with them, because they'll probably grow up and become independent, and do we try to rush thins along here too much with our kids. They are children they have a scary dream. Why not just let them stay in the bed?

POPKIN: You run the risk of what they call a secondary payoff. That the kid gets to come spend the night with the parents because they had a scary dream suddenly find themselves more and more afraid because they're getting the payoff of getting to sleep with mom and dad. If you can do the nurturing and the comforting in their bed and let them sleep there, then you'll instill that confidence that I can do it myself. That I can take care of my problems with a little support from other people, but I don't need to run afraid to mommy's bed every night. Do the comforting, but do it in their bed.

O'BRIEN: So, Ms. Thevenen, are we laying the bed work, if you will, for adults who are not independent enough by allowing them to sleep with us?

THEVENEN: This is all very interesting because what we are denying the child when we say we have to force them to become independent is that they will really grow up on their own when they have received lots of love and nurturing within the closeness of the arms of the parents. Children have grown up throughout history, throughout the world, growing up very nicely without being pushed. And so this idea that we have to literally push them faster than they maybe are ready in order for them to become very independent flies right in the face of all that is showing us and teaching us, give them lots of grounds for a high self-esteem and high self-esteem is gained when a child can reach the point by saying I am now ready to walk away and I can do it and we're not holding them back.

O'BRIEN: All right, I have got to break in here, Ms. Thevenen, because we are running out of time and I want to make sure we leave people with some practical advice. Doctor, if you choose to allow your child to stay in bed there's real concern that some harm could befall the child. You could roll over and suffocate the child, which is what this whole report was about. As I read that report, I suppose if you took the same time frame and looked at automobile accidents, there would be a higher number. We are not talking about children from cars, but nevertheless, how can you make it safe?

POPKIN: I don't know how to make that safe. If the government studies are showing it's not safe, then I think we should add that into the equation and say that's one more reason that it's probably better for your child. Put a bassinet next to your bed if you want to so that it is safer, and then as they get older move them into their own crib and their own room and have a monitor.

But what you were saying before, you were absolutely right, kids need a lot of nurturing and support, self esteem building. You can do that in a lot of ways. Sleeping together is only one of them. There's a lot more ways that are probably safer.

O'BRIEN: Ms. Thevenen, how would you make it safe?

THEVENEN: Be sure you're not intoxicated. Be sure that the bed is low enough or that you are secure that the bed is next to the wall so that the child does not fall out. Above all, let's really begin to give credit to the parents to know how to figure all of this out. Because they are good parents, by and large. I have complete trust in them that they know with the right information to know what it is that they should be doing.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you both. We're going to have to leave it there. Tine Thevenen and Dr. Michael Popkin, we appreciate you both being with us on CNN Sunday morning.

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