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CNN Sunday Morning

Controversial Execution Scheduled for Tuesday in Texas

Aired May 26, 2002 - 07:40   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Texas is expected to execute Napoleon Beasley on Tuesday. That case has drawn international protests because Beasley was 17 when he shot and killed a man during a car jacking. Last August, CNN went to Texas.

And international correspondent Christiane Amanpour has followed Beasley's case through the legal system. It's the focus of tonight's "CNN PRESENTS." Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Huntsville, Texas is a prosperous city of 35,000 people. It's a quiet town in the plains of eastern Texas. Nonetheless, it has attracted worldwide attention. Because Huntsville is home to the Texas death chamber, which has executed more people in the past 20 years than any other in the United States.

This morning's work detail is grooming the grounds, preparing the prison for another inmate's death. Napoleon Beasley is that inmate. He committed a murder at age 17. And he's now on the brink of the ultimate punishment, death by lethal injection.

AMANPOUR: So we're entering now?

LARRY FITZGERALD, DEPT. OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: This is the death chamber.

AMANPOUR: Oh, it's shocking to see for me for the first time.

FITZGERALD: At 6:00, he'll be removed from the cell, be brought in here. He'll get up on the gurney. Once he's on the gurney, five officers are each assigned a position around this gurney.

AMANPOUR: And those five people are what you call the tie down people?

FITZGERALD: Tie down team. And they will strap his arms down. They'll strap his ankles down. And then they'll put the restraints across the rest of his body. The IV team will come in. They'll insert two IVs. One on his left arm, one on his right arm. The warden will then give the signal. And the chemicals start flowing.

AMANPOUR: Does he talk to you when the IV's going in? JIM BRAZZIL, PRISON CHAPLAIN: Yes, I make it a point to talk to them real strong during that point in time. We've had fellows who've laid here and told lawyer jokes the whole time somebody was sticking needles in.

AMANPOUR: How long more do you think you'll do this for?

BRAZZIL: I don't know. I don't look at it as a job. I look at it as a ministry. And that's the reason I'm here. So you know, whenever, as long as the opportunity allows, I'll be here.

AMANPOUR: You don't think at some point it'll wear on your soul?

BRAZZIL: It has taken its toll. Yes, it has.

AMANPOUR: And for you? How do you look at it?

FITZGERALD: I look at it as a service to the people of Texas that I'm actually performing a service.

AMANPOUR: Do you know how cold that will sound to a lot of people?

FITZGERALD: No, I think that it's not meant to sound cold by any stretch of the imagination. I view my job as really being an extension of what the courts have ordered.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: The U.S. is one of the few Western countries that still imposes the death penalty. Two guests join us now to talk more about it. In Houston, Diane Clements, the president of Justice for All. She supports the death penalty. And in Washington, Steven Hawkins of the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty. Good morning to both of you.

DIANE CLEMENTS, PRES. JUSTICE FOR ALL: Good morning.

STEVE HAWKINS, NATL. COALITION TO ABOLISH THE DEATH PENALTY: Good morning.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's set up where obviously we know which side each person takes. But let's get some background on what helped you to reach the point to where you are on how you feel about this.

Diane, why don't we talk about how you evaluate your cases?

CLEMENTS: Well, each individual case is evaluated on the merits of the case. In this particular case, there is no doubt that Napoleon Beasley murdered John Lettig (ph) and stole his automobile. So you know, factual guilt is, of course, a very important issue. And each -- it doesn't matter that Napoleon Beasley was 17 at the time he committed this murder. State law permits the execution of Napoleon Beasley. The Supreme Court has said that it is constitutional.

So each case is individual. And we become involved with some families. We've not been involved with the family of Mr. Lettig (ph). They've never contacted Justice for All, but many families do, looking for a support system as they go through this process.

PHILLIPS: Steven, you talk about the standards of decency when it comes to carrying out the death penalty. Talk to me a little bit about what you mean by that?

HAWKINS: Well, the death penalty in the United States has continued to show that it is hopelessly flawed. We have seen for every eight executions in the country, we've seen one person released on grounds of innocence. We know that 69 percent of the American people, by the recent Gallup poll do not support the death penalty of children, people who commit crimes under the age of 18. And we know, clearly, that the United States internationally is in the minority here.

There are only six countries in the world that execute persons for crimes under the age of 18. The United States finds itself with Iran and Iraq in these circumstances.

PHILLIPS: Well, Steven, what about someone like Napoleon Beasley, who's confessed to the murder? Okay, he has confessed to this brutal murder. Why doesn't he deserve to die?

HAWKINS: Napoleon Beasley, I think any American looking at his case could see reasons why this young person deserves a second chance. He was an honor student. He was senior class president. He made a terrible mistake, no prior criminal history. He made a terrible mistake in his life. And I'm sure a night that he wishes he could take back each and every day.

CLEMENTS: Excuse me.

HAWKINS: But that does not -- so I think any American looking at this case can think of their own child and say this is a terrible, terrible tragedy.

PHILLIPS: Wouldn't Diane...

HAWKINS: But a young person deserving of a second chance.

PHILLIPS: Do you believe in rehabilitation, Diane?

CLEMENTS: Well, I absolutely believe that anyone can be rehabilitated. But that's not the issue. Wouldn't you say that Mr. Beasley is probably more deserving of the death penalty than many other individuals because he has all of those advantages, because he had everything going for him. And he made a very, very significant choice, knowingly that he wanted to be, and he said himself, a gangbanger. He made that choice having all of the advantages that he did.

So he didn't just make a little mistake, he took a life and he did it knowingly, knowing full well what he was doing, going out that evening in order to steal a car and to murder someone. He did this because he made that choice. Whether he was 17 or if he had had an 18th birthday. And you know, let's just -- it doesn't matter to those who oppose the death penalty if he's 17 or 70. You would oppose his execution regardless of the crime, regardless of the heinous nature, regardless of his history.

PHILLIPS: Steven, if someone could make the choice to murder someone, can they make the choice to become absolutely innocent again?

HAWKINS: What we know about children and how they commit crime, they tend to commit crime normally, under most circumstances, with other people involved, as was the case with Napoleon Beasley. There's no deterrent value for a child. Any parent knows that their child does -- will do things that they regret. Napoleon Beasley is, I think really classic. And again, a young person with no prior criminal history, and someone who I think could certainly benefit and be of a future benefit to our society.

Our society clearly benefits in no way by executing Napoleon Beasley. And again, 69 percent of the American people believe that executing juveniles, children who commit crimes under the age of 18, is wrong. And they do not support it.

PHILLIPS: What are the options? What would be the options to punish Beasley?

HAWKINS: Clearly, for Napoleon Beasley, a young person in his circumstances, he could benefit from a term of years in prison in which he could rehabilitate himself. He is not beyond redemption, not at all. And clearly...

PHILLIPS: Well, you know the reality -- there comes the cost factor though. How many times have we talked about overcrowded prisons and taxpayers keeping these criminals alive. When there could be -- I mean, the money issue comes into play here. There could be cheaper ways to handle this.

HAWKINS: We have seen...

CLEMENTS: Mr. Hawkins...

HAWKINS: ...we have certainly seen in recent studies that first of all, that carrying out executions is not necessarily cheaper than life in a prison. But more to the point.

CLEMENTS: I disagree with that.

HAWKINS: If...

PHILLIPS: Let Diane...

CLEMENTS: I disagree with that.

HAWKINS: ...we talk about executing 14 -- I mean, what is just to finish my point, it makes no sense to execute 16, 17-year olds.

CLEMENTS: You know, it doesn't make any sense for 16 or 17-year olds to commit capital murder. And let's not forget that Mr. Beasley had his day in court. A jury of 12 people have sentenced him to this punishment. So let's not just throw out the whole process. And understand that those persons heard all of the facts of the crime. They heard all the mitigation. They saw an 18-year old man at that time sitting in front of them. They knew he was 17 when we did this.

So let's not just throw all of that away and say it wouldn't serve any purpose. It does serve a purpose. It serves the purpose of appropriate punishment imposed by a jury.

HAWKINS: 69 percent of the American people do not believe this is appropriate punishment. Let's not throw out that fact.

CLEMENTS: You know, you can get a poll to say whatever you want it to say.

HAWKINS: This is the Gallup poll, the most nationally respected poll in the entire United States.

CLEMENTS: Well, I will...

HAWKINS: 69 percent of the people disagree with you.

CLEMENTS: Well, 69 percent of the people don't know the facts of the case. Now if you sat down and said...

HAWKINS: 69 percent of the people don't care about the facts of any particular case.

CLEMENTS: Oh, yes they do care. I bet to differ with you.

HAWKINS: With respect to children, 69 percent of the American people do not believe children under any circumstances should be executed.

CLEMENTS: Under any circumstances, well, that is absolutely not the truth because the juries tend to put that poll in its proper perspective, which is they don't validate it. And that's where it happens, in the courtroom with the juries and the appellate courts, and the Supreme Court. So you can have a poll that you can skew it to say what you want to, to get the answer that you want to, but that is...

HAWKINS: I am not skewing the polls.

PHILLIPS: All right, final thought. Steven, final thought here?

HAWKINS: Napoleon Beasley is richly deserving of a second chance. And we hope that the Texas Board of Pardon and Paroles gives that to him. I think that the execution of juvenile offenders, like that of mentally retarded people, is headed really to the dustbin of history. We are turning a point in this country, I think, were more and more Americans realize that the death penalty is deeply flawed, and clearly the mentally retarded and juvenile offenders, the majority -- the vast majority of the American people do not believe they should be executed.

PHILLIPS: OK, Diane, we've got about 20 seconds here. Final thought, please?

CLEMENTS: I believe that Mr. Beasley deserves the punishment that the jury imposed. And I believe that the public supports that, when they understand the facts of the crime, when they understand the process that has been gone through, to reach this point, and when they understand that Mr. Lettig (ph) and his family richly deserved a future far more than Mr. Beasley deserves a second chance. He had every chance. He threw that away. And it's a tragedy that he made, not one that the system created.

PHILLIPS: Diane Clements, Justice for All and Steve Hawkins, National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty, thank you very much.

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