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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Keynan Jackson, Charles Dryden

Aired June 23, 2002 - 07:52   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I have the distinct pleasure of introducing a couple of people. One you might recognize from that piece, Keynan Jackson. And sitting beside him to his right, Lieutenant Colonel Charles Dryden, the man they called A-train, who was there on that first sortie in 1943, when the color barrier was broken among the fighter pilot ranks. It's a great pleasure to have you with us, colonel.

LT. COL. CHARLES DRYDEN, TUSKEGEE AIRMAN: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Take us back to that moment. At that time, I suppose you weren't thinking a lot about your place in history. You were probably thinking about the task at hand. When did it kind of dawn on you that you'd put yourself in the record books for a very important milestone?

DRYDEN: Not at first, as you pointed out. We did not think that we were doing anything heroic at the time. And just doing the job like millions of GIs. I don't think it really occurred to us until a time that President Truman in 1948 desegregated the armed forces. And that's when they realized that this was really something historic.

O'BRIEN: You had really forced the issue. You and your brother and the Tuskegee airmen, forcing the issue, with little help, as I understand it, from Eleanor Roosevelt.

DRYDEN: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Who actually kind of pushed things along.

DRYDEN: Yes.

O'BRIEN: I wonder, though, as you went along, and were facing these missions, did you feel tremendous pressure to do better?

DRYDEN: Absolutely, right on target. As a matter of fact, without ever expressing it in a (UNINTELLIGIBLE), each of us, I'm certain had -- I know I had the feeling that we dare not fail. We had to succeed. Because if we failed, then the doors of opportunity in aviation would be closed to blacks forever. So we had to succeed. And we dared not give those who opposed us, and there were many in the military, the kind of proof that they'd like to be able to point to, and say, well, we told you that Negroes could not fly airplanes and keep airplanes flying as ground support people. And so, therefore, we could not provide them that proof that they sought. And we did not.

O'BRIEN: Which -- and that sends us over to Keynan right now. You're a whole new generation. A lot more opportunities for you. He broke down some doors for you. And I'm sure you owe him a little debt of gratitude for that. Do you feel that same kind of pressure still?

KEYNAN JACKSON, ATLANTA FLYING MENTORS: I definitely feel a little bit of pressure from just because there's always somebody, even nowadays that wants you to fail even -- it may be in your heart and you may be very dedicated to succeed, there's going to be somebody that wants you to fail. So I do feel a little pressure, but nothing that I don't feel like I will overcome and will overtake. And I will overpass all this pressure that I feel and will succeed.

O'BRIEN: Now you're participating in this Flying Mentors program that we talked about in the piece. And that helps African-Americans get into cockpits. Why is it so much harder? Is it a matter of perceptions and many young African-American don't see the opportunities?

JACKSON: Well, a lot of it is the cost of flying. And it's not just African-Americans. It's also underprivileged youth and other minorities. And it's just hard. And there's people that's trying to keep us down. And we're trying to get back up over those people. And we have to work a little bit harder than everybody else. So that's part of the problem also.

O'BRIEN: Now Keynan, you've had the good fortune to meet people like Colonel Dryden here. Is it an awe inspiring moment? I don't want to make you or he embarrassed, but I mean, that's got to be quite a moment for you?

JACKSON: Oh, yes, this man, he's my idol. Without him and the rest of his colleagues, I wouldn't even have a chance to do what I want to do. And it'd still be a thought in my head. And now I'm able to make that a reality. So for, Colonel Dryden and the rest of his colleagues, I am forever grateful. And I have the utmost admiration and respect for them.

O'BRIEN: What's interesting about the Tuskegee Airmen is you have this tremendous body of accomplishment in the war. The number of sorties, the number of kills, no bombers ever lost. That in and of itself is a tremendous record, but really, the legacy is right here, isn't it?

DRYDEN: Absolutely. I'm very proud of him. I listen to him, and as you work with him and so forth, because obviously, he represents the future of the nation and blacks in aviation and aerospace. And I feel very fulfilled being here beside him, and others like him.

O'BRIEN: And as you look back at your accomplishments individually and the Tuskegee Airmen accomplishments, is that the thing that really belongs in the history book, the fact that you open doors?

DRYDEN: Absolutely. I think of us who went through the Tuskegee so-called experiment, the aviation experiment, as the trailblazers. And Keynan represents the torchbearers. So we trailblazers have to pass the torch on to the trailblazers -- to the torchbearers.

O'BRIEN: So much has changed for the better. How much more needs to change?

DRYDEN: How much needs to change? Not very much in aerospace. In terms of commercial aviation, there needs to be a lot more, a larger percentage of blacks in aviation commercial. In the military, I see no barriers. They've been removed by Truman's executive role as he desegregated armed forces. So that we have general officers. We have women. The foremost person I know of is a full colonel, Stacy Harris (ph), who flies with the National Guard. She's the vice commander of aero refueling unit, I believe, but also for a California-based commercial airliner, she flies the largest airplane in the world, the 747.

O'BRIEN: Keynan, do you see any barriers?

JACKSON: I don't really see any barriers. I see -- there needs to be -- I do believe the airlines do need to be more integrative. There's not enough minority pilots in the industry right now, but we're up and coming now. We still have more time. And I hope to help push those numbers along.

O'BRIEN: I fully expect to be flying behind Captain Keynan Jackson someday, board some flight somewhere.

JACKSON: Yes, sir.

O'BRIEN: Great pleasure to have you with us. Colonel, a great honor. We appreciate you both being here this morning on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

DRYDEN: Thank you for making my day.

O'BRIEN: All right.

DRYDEN: Great to be here.

O'BRIEN: Boy, that's a statement right there.

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