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CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Danny Naveh, Ghassan Khattib
Aired June 23, 2002 - 07:24 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's turn our attention now to the Middle East. The Israeli army pushed into another West Bank town today. Troops moved into Qalqilya taking full control of the city and establishing a curfew.
On top of that, the army is calling up reservists to help fight terror. Israel says all of this is part of a plan to seize and hold Palestinian areas as long as needed to prevent suicide bombings.
Let's get reaction on these developments. We have a guest joining us with Israeli and Palestinian viewpoints -- two guests that is. We begin in Jerusalem with Danny Naveh, an Israeli Cabinet minister.
Mr. Naveh, good to have you with us.
DANNY NAVEH, ISRAELI CABINET MINISTER: It's a pleasure to be on your show.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Naveh, why is Israel reoccupying the West Bank?
NAVEH: The Palestinian towns, unfortunately, became haven for suicide bombers. Arafat doesn't do anything to stop them. On the contrary, his people sent those suicide bombers to kill many Israelis including babies and children. We have to be there only for the sake of the need to stop those suicide bombers from coming into our town and killing our population.
O'BRIEN: But how will Israel know if the goal is achieved, for example, how will Israel know when to pull back? Will there ever be a pullback or is this something that Israel feels has to continue for the foreseeable future?
NAVEH: We'll have to judge by your cause and we -- our main aim is to confiscate illegal weapons. We have to see whether we confiscated illegal weapons and explosives. We have to see whether we arrested once the terrorists and killers that Arafat refused to arrest, and essential to further killing. These are the kind of aims that we have to achieve during this operation.
Our only agenda, as I've said, and I would like to emphasize this again, our only agenda is to prevent further suicide bombers from coming into our town. Unfortunately, Arafat and his men are not doing anything to stop them. They send them to our towns and we need to exercise our right for self-defense like any other normal country.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the reoccupation and also this wall currently under construction. What that is tantamount to doing is redrawing the political landscape. How is it possible to begin negotiations when, in essence, Israel has changed the map?
NAVEH: This is only at present of the Israeli soldiers for security needs. We are not going to stay there. We are -- we are not going to reoccupy these territories forever. Our only aim is security wise.
Unfortunately, the main problem -- the main stumbling block on the way to the assumption of a negotiation is not Israel precaution and self-defense measures. The main reason is Arafat's policy of terror. More than 500 Israelis lost their lives. Since Arafat's decision to turn his back on peace and to move ahead with this campaign of violence. We need to stop violence.
O'BRIEN: I'm sorry, Mr. Naveh, I am a little bit confused.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: I'm a little bit confused, because I hear this all the time from Israelis. On the one hand, there's an allegation that Yasser Arafat is irrelevant and not in control. And then you just utter that statement there, which essentially says that this is a campaign that is controlled by Yasser Arafat. Which is it?
NAVEH: Arafat is involved, first of all. We had to acknowledge the fact that Arafat is involved. We have hard evidence that Arafat is involved in the planning and financing of terrorist attacks. His organization the Fatah movement is a leading terrorist organization during the last few months.
These are -- these are the facts that we have to acknowledge. We don't have any expectations from Arafat to be part of the peace. He proved that he failed in this respect. This is why we need to take those precaution and security measures in order to prevent further attacks that will come out of Arafat (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
O'BRIEN: Danny Naveh, an Israeli Cabinet minister joining us from Jerusalem. Thank you very much.
Let's turn our attention to the other side right now. Ghassan Khattib is joining us from Ramallah. He is a Palestinian labor minister. Nice to see you sir, thank you for being with us.
GHASSAN KHATTIB, PALESTINIAN LABOR MINISTER: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: All right. I hope you heard the interview. I'm just going to ask you right off the top, is Yasser Arafat in control of anything?
KHATTIB: Well, unfortunately, Israel has taken a decision few months ago to make President Arafat irrelevant and they moved already their things... O'BRIEN: Well, isn't it...
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Sir. Sir...
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Sir, isn't it possible that Yasser Arafat allowed himself to become irrelevant?
KHATTIB: No, I don't think he allowed himself to become irrelevant. I think that he was -- the Israelis are trying to make him irrelevant and they have been primarily targeting his security more than anything else. They have been crippling the Palestinian security and claiming Yasser Arafat -- and weakening Yasser Arafat in order to claim him.
Now, Sharon said that Arafat is not able to do it. He put Arafat aside and he moved in to do it his way. Let us recognize that Sharon's policy of trying to achieve peace and security by force, and on the account of the lives of Palestinian innocents is not working, because it's against the logic of human beings. You cannot achieve security for yourself on the expense of the security of all the others.
O'BRIEN: All right...
KHATTIB: Israel can and should achieve its legitimate objective of security and peace, but together with ensuring peace and security for the Palestinians, Israel...
O'BRIEN: Mr. Khattib...
KHATTIB: ... ending the Israel occupation.
O'BRIEN: ... let me ask you this, though. If the tables were turned and every week, every third day an Israeli was strapping explosives on himself, walking into the camps, blowing himself up, injuring innocent people: Wouldn't the Palestinians want to build some walls?
KHATTIB: Well, maybe if the Palestinians in this case they would do the same, but it happened that it is Israel that is occupying
O'BRIEN: Wouldn't the Palestinians want to build some walls?
KHATTIB: Well, maybe if the Palestinians in this case, they will do the same, but it happened that it is Israel that is occupying Palestine. And it is the Israeli illegal belligerent occupation over the Palestinian territories that is responsible for both the Israeli violence in order to maintain this occupation by force, and the Palestinian violent reaction in order to try to get rid of this occupation in accordance with the stipulations of the international legality. Let us not mix the cause and effect. The occupation is the cause of all violence. And not only the Palestinians, but all the Arabs have offered Israel a final and comprehensive end of hostility if Israel is willing to end its occupation, according to the Security Council Resolution 242.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Khattib, when Mr. Arafat says he will now accept the basic tenets in terms of Camp David, how are we to interpret that, some two years later, after he walked away from that very agreement?
KHATTIB: He didn't walk away from that agreement. Arafat, at the time, accepted Clinton's ideas. And this is on record, but sometimes our memory is not strong enough. He accepted Clinton's ideas as frame for negotiations with certain reservations on some aspects of it, which was exactly the Israeli response to these ideas.
O'BRIEN: All right, Mr. Ghassan Khattib is the Palestinian labor minister, thank you very much for joining us from Ramallah.
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