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CNN Sunday Morning
Bus Bombing Claims Nine Lives in Israel
Aired August 04, 2002 - 07:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY SMITH, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, lots of news. Let's get right to it. In fact, again, our top story, a deadly bus bombing in northern Israel. CNN's Walter Rodgers at the scene, bombing scene in Meron Junction and joins us now with the very latest.
Good morning, Walter.
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Five and a half hours after the bomb went off, they're still cleaning up the carnage from that bomb, which was aboard an Israeli bus here at the Meron Junction. There is also the faint whiff of burned flesh in the air, even despite the efforts of the police and the fire departments to hose away what was left of the bits of human flesh.
Of course, the Zakad (ph), the Israeli religious group responsible for recovering the human body parts, has been at work here for several hours, actually since the bomb went off at about 08:45 this morning, trying to recover the body parts. The bus was traveling from Haifa on the first day of the workweek here. It went first to Atta (ph). That is to say it was bus number 361.
It stopped at Israeli Arab villages along the way in route to Safed. It never made it past the Meron Junction. Safed is not far from here. The latest reports are that nine people were killed in the explosion. That number has been rising all morning and could rise even further. We have at least two critically injured in hospital, a total of 49 people in hospital at this point.
The bus itself, bus 361 was ripped apart by the explosion. The bomb, and it's still not clear whether it was a suicide bomber, although most probably that was the case. The bomb was in the -- exploded in the middle of the bus. It drove the roof skyward and the entire right side of the bus was ripped out. The most likely survivors on the bus was those in the front, closest to the drive and those in the very back of the bus.
The greatest concentration of the explosion, of course, was in the middle where the bomb exploded. That bus will now be taken to a center where the Zakad (ph) will go through the bus trying to further recover body parts, which under Jewish law have to be recovered for the burial and the funerals should start within the next few hours under Israeli -- under Jewish law, they have to be buried within the next 24 hours, if that is at all humanly possible. This was another terrible terrorist attack up here. Izzedine al Qassam, the militant -- military wing of Hamas in Gaza claimed responsibility initially of course. They're saying -- the Hamas militants are saying that this was revenge for Israel's bombing of the -- which killed Salah Shehade 10 days ago in Gaza and an additional 14 civilians, many women and children. Hamas says this is the second in a series of retaliatory acts.
It gives no indication that these terrorist attacks against Israeli citizens are going to stop at all. Indeed, the Palestinians have discovered that such bombings, as the one we've witnessed here this morning in northern Jerusalem are a kind of strategic weapon to be used against the Israelis, to break the Israeli's will, to demoralize the Israelis. According to Hamas and the Palestinian militants, to inflict pain on the Israeli populists, a tit for tat according to the Hamas people.
One of the people responsible for the cleaning of the carnage was Avram Goldberg (ph). He was quick to the scene here, and I asked him what he found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AVRAM GOLDBERG (ph): When I arrived, the last wounded were still being taken.
RODGERS: And what was that like? What did you see?
GOLDBERG (ph): I didn't actually see any of the wounded. I just saw the ambulances parked around. As I got here, there -- I think the last ambulance already have taken the last of the wounded.
RODGERS: As an Israeli citizen, how do you feel about this latest terror attack?
GOLDBERG (ph): There's much fear about the previous attacks. It's terrible and it has to come to an end.
RODGERS: And how would you recommend that?
GOLDBERG (ph): If you ask my opinion ...
RODGERS: I'm asking your opinion.
GOLDBERG (ph): ... my personal opinion, Mr. Arafat has to leave the area. It's only since he came to this area it all started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RODGERS: This latest attack, again, demonstrates that Israel has yet to develop a viable defense against Palestinian terrorism, if indeed such a defense exists. It also clearly demonstrates that despite Israeli military incursions into the West Bank, aimed at breaking the back of the Palestinian terrorist infrastructure, that terrorist infrastructure is still operational.
Back to you.
SMITH: OK, thank you so much. Walter Rodgers reporting from northern Israel. Once again, in case you've just joined us here and you missed the very top of our show at the top of the hour, at least nine dead, dozens more wounded in a bus bombing in northern Israel there on the Meron Junction.
About a half an hour ago, President Bush commented on the bombing. He was on the golf course at the Bush family compound in Kennebunkport, Maine and here is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes I'm distressed to hear about the latest suicide bombers in Israel. For those who yearn for peace in the Middle East, for those in the Arab lands, for those in Europe, for those all around the world who yearn for peace, we must do everything we possibly can to stop the terror. There are a few killers who want to stop the peace process that we have started, and we must not let them. For the sake of humanity, for the sake of the Palestinians who suffer, for the sake of the Israelis who are under attack, we must stop the terror. I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: It is not known whether today's suicide bombing will affect an offer by Ariel Sharon to meet with two Palestinian Cabinet officials. Just a few days ago, he said that such a meeting could take place this week. Israel forces launched a campaign against Hamas in the West Bank and after Wednesday's Hamas bomb killed seven people including five Americans, President Bush expressed outrage over that bombing. But while meeting with the King of Jordan told reporters that peace is still possible.
Well joining us from Washington to look at all these developments including the bombing and the shooting today, Marc Ginsberg, the former U.S. ambassador to Morocco and Georgetown University professor Rob Sobhani. Thank you very much for being with us. Gentlemen, not waking up to good news again this morning, are we?
MARC GINSBERG, FMR. AMB. TO MOROCCO: No, good morning Catherine.
ROB SOBHANI, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: No.
CALLAWAY: Good morning to you. You know if there's one thing an outsider can see from what has been going on since September of 2000 is that Israel, as Walter has just said, has been really unable to come up with any kind of viable defense against these suicide bombings and that the suicide -- that the Israeli incursions have also not been successful in moving the peace process forward. So what now? Let me start with you Mr. Sobhani.
SOBHANI: I think, Catherine, one of the fundamental points here is that there are, as President Bush mentioned, outside forces who are trying to sabotage Israeli-Palestinian peace. The two fundamental countries, the two most important countries are Iraq and the government of Iran. If these two countries stop funding support for suicide bombings, I think we can possibly see light at the end of the tunnel. Israelis and Palestinians without terror can sit behind a table and start the negotiations.
CALLAWAY: Rob, you sound a bit like you're working for the Bush administration at this point with your views on that. What do you think Marc? Is it time to look at Iran and Iraq before moving forward with efforts on peace talks?
GINSBERG: We first have to understand what Hamas represents. There should be no distinction between its political wing and its so- called military wing. Hamas is going to try to sabotage any peace effort. It is now intentionally targeted Americans at the Hebrew University attack. Its people went into the streets of Gaza, burned American flags, and held America responsible providing Israel the weaponry that destroyed its chief terrorist organizer, and it is no doubt based on the intelligence reports that we're seeing, that not only Iran and Iraq are responsible, but Syria and Lebanon as well for helping to support Hamas.
There is a predator's ball of terrorist organizations that are being supported by these countries largely because Iraq and Iran, as well as Syria, which is in cahoots with Iraq are concerned that the United States is organizing a potential regime change in Baghdad. And many of these terrorist organizations including Hamas see them -- their responsibility in row as helping to forestall that in the warped minds of terrorist groups in the Middle East.
CALLAWAY: You know but what you're talking about sounds almost like a full air of war here. You're talking about so many countries involved in establishing peace there. You know Rob, what's to be done?
SOBHANI: Well we have to take it country by country, Catherine. For example, in the case of Iraq, obviously there needs to be a military solution. But in the case of Iran, it's different. There needs to be no military solution because the people in Iran have already taken to the streets and President Bush's statements have been encouraging there. So we have to take it country by country, but there's no doubt, as Ambassador Ginsberg said, Iraq, Iran, Syria are fully responsible. We need to go after these regimes, if there is to be peace between the Arabs and the Palestinians ...
CALLAWAY: So ...
SOBHANI: ... the Israelis, I'm sorry.
CALLAWAY: Yes and so why have these meetings, these proposed or discussed meetings, between Ariel Sharon and any Palestinian representative?
GINSBERG: Well it's important, Catherine, to understand that Israel and most Israelis still believe that they want to see a two- state solution possible with the Palestinians and despite the enormous unhappiness with Yasser Arafat's failed leadership, the president of the United States rightfully has put down markers that he hopes to encourage ...
CALLAWAY: Right.
GINSBERG: ... a new generation of Palestinian leadership and it is to that new leadership that all of us including Americans as well as Europeans, as well as Israelis are investing a great deal of hope, that they will be able to develop enough strength to take on the terrorist group like Hamas that are determined to destroy Israel and it will never negotiate ...
(CROSSTALK)
GINSBERG: ... and will do everything possible to sabotage an agreement with Israel and the Palestinians.
CALLAWAY: You know Rob, a two-state solution sounds great, but isn't that really just a tip of the iceberg?
SOBHANI: Well I mean the recent polls by Tel Aviv University, 67, 70 percent of Israelis want to see a two-state solution. Sixty- seven percent would like to see an end to the settlements that are one of the key problems of the Palestinian-Israeli problem. However, Israelis rightly so want security. They're saying fine, we'll give up the settlement, but we'd like to see security. And that's where Iraq, Iran, Syrian come in. They know this. They know Israel will not make peace until its security is not guaranteed, and that's why it's important to start with these regimes that sponsor terror.
CALLAWAY: You know, Marc and Rob, I wish we had more time to continue this discussion because I know you both have a lot more to say, and I have a lot more questions, but we're running out of time. We do have so much news this morning. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us.
GINSBERG: Sure. Good morning.
SOBHANI: Thank you.
GINSBERG: Yes.
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