Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Sunday Morning
Interview With Steve Malzberg, Victoria Jones
Aired September 01, 2002 - 07:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to talk more now about the Augusta National and its all-male membership policy. Is it a matter of discrimination?
Joining me to talk about this, Steve Malzberg, a radio talk show host for WABC in New York and from Washington, Victoria Jones, a radio talk show host with the talk radio news service. We want to thank you both for joining us today.
STEVE MALZBERG, WABC RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, Renay. Thank you.
VICTORIA JONES, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Hello, thanks for being with us. Steve, let's start with you. The right decision or the wrong decision by the Augusta National?
MALZBERG: Well, unfortunately, it was a decision that they had to make. They were pressured into making because these women's groups or this umbrella organization of women's groups has nothing better to do than to try to infiltrate an all man's club. What's wrong with a men's club existing in this day and age? It's not discrimination. It's not the same as keeping blacks out or keeping Jews out, trying to deny somebody's civil rights, a job, a loan, an education. It's a men's club. What's wrong with men wanting to congregate with men, freedom of association?
There's plenty of opportunity for women out there. There's the LPGA. They play golf. They have tournaments. And I'll tell you what, if women were allowed in here, when the first woman gets in, Gloria Allred would be on the phone with that woman saying, "How could we sue for sexual harassment? What bothers you? What are you uncomfortable with? It's a joke.
They want the girl's and the boy scouts. And it's just nuts.
SAN MIGUEL: Ms. Jones, the question here, is it discrimination or just the right for a private group to set its own rules?
JONES: Well, they have the right to set their own rules, although they say actually it's not a policy, it's not a rule. It's just wow, we haven't had a woman since 1933. They have the right to do what they want. They're a private club. And they have the right to cancel their sponsors. It is interesting that they are worried enough about this. For some reason, they're scared enough of women that they want to cancel their sponsors. And you know, so far the sponsors have said very little.
But they can do what they liked. But in this day and age, to use the excuse of we need somewhere to get together as men, it's just so lame. If men want to play golf together as groups, they can do that any club that they want. If they want to have a drink in the bar with each other, they can do that. So this excuse of we have to escape from the women, oh, get over it.
MALZBERG: So wait a minute. So Victoria admits that it's OK, but she questions the right of freedom of association or the...
JONES: Yes, I do.
MALZBERG: ...property.
JONES: I do on -- yes I do under these circumstances because you're saying that it's not the same as with blacks.
MALZBERG: Absolutely.
JONES: Of course it's the same as with blacks.
MALZBERG: There's no hatred here.
JONES: It absolutely is.
(CROSS TALK)
SAN MIGUEL: Let me step in here for just a second here.
JONES: There may be no hatred against blacks.
MALZBERG: Oh, please.
SAN MIGUEL: Let me step in for just a second and do some...
JONES: No, absolutely, you're saying it's fine.
SAN MIGUEL: And do some refereeing here. Let's talk about what this does for the sport. And Steve, I'll put this to you. What about the idea that, you know, of all the kids of color out there who have taken up the game because of Tiger Woods' success, how many of the female golfers on the LPGA tour right now took up the sport because of what Jan Stevenson did back, you know, a couple of decades ago? What about the perception of the sport itself and the idea that this club will not admit female members in the year 2002?
MALZBERG: Women's golf has been very successful. And I think that flies in the face of the whole thing. The fact of the matter is females could play golf and become pros and be very successful. And they have their own tournaments. And this has absolutely nothing to do with that at all.
SAN MIGUEL: But Victoria, where does CBS go with this? I mean, they were only allowing four minutes of commercial time per hour. This wasn't exactly a big money maker for them. It was more about the prestige and the exposure of being in this tournament, right?
JONES: Yes, it was. And the concepts of separate but equal has really been pretty much discredited. And that seems to be the policy we're talking about here. For CBS, I don't know whether they're air it. I imagine they will because discrimination against women is a funny issue. You know, take my wife, please. Nobody cares about it. People laugh about it because it's cool to discriminate.
But I'm actually quite pleased if there are no commercials. I mean, I grew up watching golf. My parents played golf. They joined a golf club. It was men and women. They managed it pretty well, actually. So to me, watching it without commercials is great. We don't get interrupted by it.
SAN MIGUEL: Tell me...
MALZBERG: Yes.
SAN MIGUEL: Steve, let me drop it to you, to -- the same question with CBS. Somebody is going to be putting pressure on the networks here. And there's also USA Network, who's involved with carrying the early rounds.
MALZBERG: Absolutely.
SAN MIGUEL: So there's more than just network involved here. There is going to be some way for somebody to let their feelings known, even if there's no commercials involved here. There's going to be some kind of a protest involved in some kind of fashion.
MALZBERG: Well, CBS is going to be next target of these radical feminists, who have nothing better to do. They don't want equality. They want infiltration. They want special rights. They want to upset the balance of common sense.
JONES: Infiltration? That's what you call it?
MALZBERG: Let me ask you, Victoria...
JONES: That's funny.
MALZBERG: ...do you think that the girls should join the boys scouts?
JONES: I think it's funny that you say that it's infiltration...
MALZBERG: Do you think girls should join the boy scouts?
JONES: I'm not talking about the boy scouts. And I'm not going to have you set my agenda, Steve, just because you want to.
MALZBERG: That answered my question, thank you very much.
JONES: No, it doesn't. Your question is that you want to set the agenda because you can't argue this...
MALZBERG: What agenda?
JONES: ...because there's no issue. The agenda is that we're actually talking about Augusta.
MALZBERG: You're right, there's no issue.
JONES: That's the agenda.
MALZBERG: Men to play golf with men.
JONES: And of course there's no issue.
MALZBERG: Women could play with women.
JONES: That's correct.
SAN MIGUEL: OK.
JONES: They can play. That's absolutely right. So why are they so afraid of having women in their club?
SAN MIGUEL: Let me borrow a sports term here and go ahead and issue a time out for both of you, but in helping to wake us up on Sunday morning, by the way. But the idea here is that, you know, I want to just on this last question here, this isn't an issue of discrimination because there is no policy barring female members.
MALZBERG: Right.
SAN MIGUEL: It's just that nobody has sponsored a female member from the Augusta National...
JONES: Wow.
SAN MIGUEL: ...member has not sponsored a female member. So Victoria, let me press that to you. Is that really an issue of discrimination then?
JONES: Well, I already said at the beginning that they say that they don't have a policy. It's just fascinating that apparently no women have been sponsored. And out of 300 members, only 10 blacks apparently, have been sponsored and gotten in.
It's not an issue of discrimination. It's a private club. It's not an issue in that sense. It is an issue of discrimination in the larger sense, but it's not an issue that's going to be taken serious. The tournament will go ahead. It probably will be aired by CBS, because this is the last bastion of OK discrimination because it's funny. It's funny to discriminate against women.
SAN MIGUEL: Steve?
MALZBERG: There's no discrimination going. We discriminate every day when we make choice A over choice B. Do we go left? Do we go right? Discrimination is a funny word. There's no discrimination in the sense of denying anybody anything here. This is a private club. Even Victoria admits it, it's a private club. Freedom of association. There is no issue here, but it's the radical feminists who get the media attention. And let's pray that CBS has the you know what to stand up to them.
SAN MIGUEL: We are going to leave it there.
JONES: Separate but equals, separate but equal, huh?
SAN MIGUEL: Here we go. And we can talk about this a lot longer, but we're going to exercise our freedom to end this discussion right now.
MALZBERG: Thank you, Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Steve Malzberg...
JONES: Thank you.
SAN MIGUEL: With WABC Radio, a talk show host in New York. Victoria Jones with Radio Talk, talk radio news service in D.C. Thank you both for joining us.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
