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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With John Challenger

Aired September 01, 2002 - 07:52   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: This Labor Day weekend follows a tough week in the labor market. Unemployment claims up for the third consecutive week. Hundreds of thousands of people out there applying for work, many will be required to take a drug test. Other tests an applicant could encounter include behavior, perhaps even a handwriting test.
John Challenger, CEO with Challenger, Gray and Christmas, which is a consultant firm on employment trends, is with us this morning to tell us what we need to know before we head out to that next job interview. Thanks for getting up early for us this morning.

JOHN CHALLENGER, CEO, CHALLENGER, GRAY & CHRISTMAS: Good morning, Catherine.

CALLAWAY: Good morning. You know, a lot of people out there applying for a job, maybe for the first time in a long time, because they found themselves suddenly unemployed. And it's amazing, Al, just how many firms, how many companies, actually do require you to take some type of drug test, right?

CHALLENGER: It used to be just the kinds of jobs where you are doing something that might be dangerous. Construction companies, transportation. But now, more and more states and employers have put in these kinds of drug tests to make sure that they're getting people who aren't having those kinds of problems.

CALLAWAY: You know, John, I'm curious on what most people are doing now, most companies I should say, not people. But most firms, are they doing urinalysis? Are they doing blood tests? What kind of drug tests could you encounter out there?

CHALLENGER: Well, there's about four kinds: urine tests, saliva tests, blood tests...

CALLAWAY: Wow.

CHALLENGER: Even hair follicle tests.

CALLAWAY: Yes.

CHALLENGER: Can get the kind of information they're looking for.

CALLAWAY: And they are -- have the perfect right to ask for that, right? What happens if you decide you don't want to do a test? What are your rights? You're not going to get the job. CHALLENGER: Yes, you're not going to get the job. What you do have the right to do is if you were to take a test and it was positive, and you're concerned it might be a false positive, you have the right to ask for a second test. And if it's negative, if it says that you do have some problems, you're going to have to pay for it. But if it says that test, the first one, was wrong, then the company will pay for it.

CALLAWAY: Wow, now that's -- I didn't know you had that option. All right, let's talk about the false positive, because this can happen. What are some of the things that could conflict with a urinalysis or even the blood tests? You know, you hear the old story about poppy seeds and that kind of thing. Is that true? Is that something you would tell employee, you know, to stay away from before they go to an application, a job interview?

CHALLENGER: Actually, it is true. You might have that poppy seed bagel of cake, and it could cause a test for heroin to turn positive. It might be ibuprofen, suggesting THC, which is more like marijuana.

CALLAWAY: It could just be a trace and that would be enough to raise some concern. What about prescription drugs? Are you supposed to tell them? Do you have to tell them what prescription drugs you were on?

CHALLENGER: Well, you don't have to. You might want to. There are certainly risks when you're taking even over the counter cold medicines, as well as prescription drugs, that that could test positive for amphetamines or cocaine. Think about the novocaine you get from a dentist. Those are the kinds of substances, if they stay in your body, could cause a positive test, a false positive that could cause you to lose a job after you've been given the offer. That's why you need to get a second test.

CALLAWAY: You know...

CHALLENGER: That's why you need to be careful.

CALLAWAY: ...it's a little disconcerting, you know, when you have to tell someone you've just met that you're taking an antidepressant or an, you know, an anti anxiety drug or perhaps even a muscle relaxer. But you suggest that you do that anyway?

CHALLENGER: Well, you got to make a decision. You know, whether or not it's something that's going to happen. Usually what you're doing is you're going to a third party.

That third party is not going to be your employer. They'll then be able to factor that in. Most drug testers today really are trying to sort people into the company. They're not out to knock you out. So they're going to be very careful about giving a positive to the company.

CALLAWAY: All right, let's take a look. I think we -- I was surfing on the web a little bit, trying to see what was out there for companies to buy. Here's one. This is a marijuana test that companies can use. It's rapid drug testing. This is one of many that I found on the web site. John, are companies buying these type of kits or are they sending you to a lab? What is the general rule now?

CHALLENGER: Most companies are sending you to a third party expert, not getting involved in actually administering those tests themselves.

CALLAWAY: Right. And where does that information go? When you go in, do they take your name and your Social Security number? Or are you just applicant?

CHALLENGER: It goes into the -- your file with the company. So it's not something that's made a public record, but certainly within that company, you have personnel and your boss, and probably other people up the line from that boss who could take a look at it.

CALLAWAY: Wow. What about your Social Security number when you go into have that work? Is the lab going to ask for that? And do they keep that on record there, in those private labs?

CHALLENGER: They'll probably ask for that. So it's certainly something that you want to ensure confidentiality of. This isn't information that's being passed around. It's not a matter of public record, but as an employee, for example, you do have the right to go into your personnel department and ask to look at that personnel file, and then you can request if there was say a false positive test on your record to have that removed.

CALLAWAY: Yes, and don't be afraid to do that, right?

CHALLENGER: You should do that.

CALLAWAY: Some of the other things that you were talking about to us earlier, very strange Why would a company want to analyze your handwriting? And how legitimate is that?

CHALLENGER: Well, it's probably not that legitimate, but some people certainly are firm believers that you can look at a person's handwriting and gain information about their personality, how they're going to fit in. So companies -- many companies are using tests of varying kinds to try to get a handle on is this employee going to fit into our environment? Are they going to be prone to other kinds of problems that might make another person a better hire?

CALLAWAY: Well, what about behavior tests, personality tests? You know, what are some of the things they would ask on that? We are running out of time. And I just want to give people an idea of what they may be -- need to be prepared for?

CHALLENGER: Well, in a personality test, there is some kind of psychological test, they're trying to determine whether or not you're going to fit in with a company, with its culture, with the boss you're working for. It's not something you have to volunteer all of your inward emotions. You can be very neutral in those tests. That company doesn't have a right to pry into that part of your life. CALLAWAY: Right, all right. John, it's amazing what the market looks like these days, at some of the things you got to go through to get a job. And I think they're a little bit better prepared now.

CHALLENGER: It's changing.

CALLAWAY: Yes, it is. John Challenger, thank you for being with us this morning.

CHALLENGER: Thanks, Catherine.

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